F Graham (son of Billy) "Opposing Trump is the work of the Devil"

Skeptic Ginger · 1st December 2019, 04:34 PM

And another threshold of crazy is crossed by some Evangelical leaders. Why in hell is this idiot, Trump, some kind of Evangelical hero?

The Atlantic: Are Trump’s Critics Demonically Possessed?
Two of the president’s prominent evangelical supporters are literally demonizing his opponents.

Quote:

It isn’t enough for Franklin Graham and Eric Metaxas, two prominent figures within the American evangelical movement, to lavish praise on President Donald Trump. They have now decided they must try to demonize his critics.

Literally....

During his November 21 interview with Graham, Metaxas, a Salem Radio Network talk-show host, asked the son of the late evangelist Billy Graham, “What do you think of what is happening now? I mean, it’s a very bizarre situation to be living in a country where some people seem to exist to undermine the president of the United States. It's just a bizarre time for most Americans.”

Franklin Graham, president and CEO of the Billy Graham Evangelical Association, responded, “Well, I believe it’s almost a demonic power that is trying—”

At which point Metaxas interjected, “I would disagree. It’s not almost demonic. You know and I know, at the heart, it’s a spiritual battle.”

Not about money, no siree:

Quote:

...(Graham argued that a strong economy leads to more tithing and church-building programs.) ...

To which Graham responded, “I believe that Donald Trump believes—he believes in God. He believes in Jesus Christ. His depth—he doesn’t, you know, he went to churches here in New York; he didn’t get a whole lot of teaching.”

Quote:

...They didn’t make the case that Trump critics are sincere but wrong, or even that they are insincere and unpatriotic. Instead, they felt compelled to portray those with whom they disagree politically as under demonic influences, which for a Christian is about as serious an accusation as there is. It means their opponents are the embodiment of evil, the “enemy,” anti-God, a kind of anti-Christ.

Quote:

Just ask yourself where this game ends. Do demonic powers explain opposition to all politicians supported by Graham and Metaxas, or to Trump alone? Would they argue that all Christians (and non-Christians) who oppose Trump are under the influence of Satan? ...

For Graham and Metaxas, it appears that agreeing with them equates to agreeing with God—and disagreeing with them, at least when it comes to Donald Trump, means doing the work of the evil one.

Of course they went on to lie about Trump's economy (great) and falsely denigrate Obama's (a disaster).

But when Clinton's economy was even better, these guys were not excusing his morals.

Norman Alexander · 1st December 2019, 05:26 PM

Of course, the Grahams and Metaxas and a whole bunch of those guys know EXACTLY what God is thinking. They have his voice in their heads...as do many lunatics.

Reality is this is all about money and that's all. They don't want the sheep they are fleecing to get any ideas that they could be sheep.

smartcooky · 1st December 2019, 06:59 PM

Someone left the asylum doors unlocked again.

Giordano · 1st December 2019, 09:43 PM

Seems like an odd position for a "religious" man to take, given Trump appears to me to fit all the qualifications expected of the Antichrist...

Norman Alexander · 1st December 2019, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by Giordano

Seems like an odd position for a "religious" man to take, given Trump appears to me to fit all the qualifications expected of the Antichrist...

"Religious"??! Are you kidding? My goldfish is more "religious" than any of them.

You need to remember that evangelism in the USA is inevitably a giant money-making scam with a very thin and usually cracked veneer of religiosity stuck over it. Its success is totally reliant on the sheep remaining sheep. Under no circumstances would anyone reasonably expect these people to actually adhere to any precepts we would expect of a "religious" practitioner. It's all about the money for them, and the scams they use to get it. And if that means utterly illogical and contradictory pronouncements, and suck-like-your-life-depends-on-it for The Donald, they will do it. Not a scruple in sight.

Skeptic Ginger · 1st December 2019, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

"Religious"??! Are you kidding? My goldfish is more "religious" than any of them.

You need to remember that evangelism in the USA is inevitably a giant money-making scam with a very thin and usually cracked veneer of religiosity stuck over it. Its success is totally reliant on the sheep remaining sheep. Under no circumstances would anyone reasonably expect these people to actually adhere to any precepts we would expect of a "religious" practitioner. It's all about the money for them, and the scams they use to get it. And if that means utterly illogical and contradictory pronouncements, and suck-like-your-life-depends-on-it for The Donald, they will do it. Not a scruple in sight.

This ^

The Great Zaganza · 1st December 2019, 11:13 PM

Evangelicals aren't a religion, they are a multi-level marketing scheme.

Skeptic Ginger · 2nd December 2019, 12:10 AM

I think that's a good description.

Darat · 2nd December 2019, 04:51 AM

Originally Posted by Giordano

Seems like an odd position for a "religious" man to take, given Trump appears to me to fit all the qualifications expected of the Antichrist...

Remember for many Chrisitians the anti christ is necessary for "the end times".

DuvalHMFIC · 2nd December 2019, 06:18 AM

Don't forget, this is the same clown who is taking tuition for his "school" and buying up all sorts of property with it-which is NOT for the school.

halleyscomet · 2nd December 2019, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by DuvalHMFIC

Don't forget, this is the same clown who is taking tuition for his "school" and buying up all sorts of property with it-which is NOT for the school.

It’s amazing how effective a con religion can be.

Max_mang · 2nd December 2019, 04:31 PM

My pet conspiracy theory:

It's all about Pence. The end goal of the evangelicals is a christian theocracy in the US. Christian evangelicals agreed to put their support (estimated at around 33% of the US vote) behind Trump if he brought Mike Pence with him.

If Trump is put out of office for any reason, Pence takes over. If Trump goes one term, Pence was brought to the world stage. If Trump goes two full terms, then Pence will have 8 years of presidential grooming. It's win-win-win. Pence is only 60 years old, he will be in prime presidential candidate age for some time to come.

Check out Pence's stuff from the 90's and early 2000's. Even w/out the gay-conversion therapy crap, he's a hardcore jeebus guy who thinks everyone should have a super puritan lifestyle.

sts60 · 2nd December 2019, 05:13 PM

I’m distracted from Franklin Graham’s actual words by the whiff of brimstone and treason every time he opens his mouth.

theprestige · 2nd December 2019, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by sts60

I’m distracted from Franklin Graham’s actual words by the whiff of brimstone and treason every time he opens his mouth.

Do you think he should be tried for treason?

Roger Ramjets · 2nd December 2019, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by Max_mang

My pet conspiracy theory:

It's all about Pence. The end goal of the evangelicals is a christian theocracy in the US. Christian evangelicals agreed to put their support (estimated at around 33% of the US vote) behind Trump if he brought Mike Pence with him.

If Trump is put out of office for any reason, Pence takes over.

Nice theory, but it's wrong. If Trump wasn't personally good for them it would be a different story. Pence was just their insurance policy in case Trump screwed it up.

Roger Ramjets · 2nd December 2019, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

Do you think he should be tried for treason?

Only if the other 62,984,827 traitors who voted for Trump are too.

catsmate · 3rd December 2019, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Remember for many Chrisitians the anti christ is necessary for "the end times".

You even get such nonsense in Catholicism, look at Lord of the World (wiki) a century old End Times dystopia by a RCC priest which has been depressingly popular with several popes.

HansMustermann · 7th December 2019, 07:06 AM

You had me at he's against Trump. You don't have to oversell Satan

The Great Zaganza · 7th December 2019, 12:12 PM

Pence is utterly optional at this point: if you asked Evangelicals who they'd rather have as President, it would be Trump, not Pence.

DuvalHMFIC · 8th December 2019, 02:24 PM

I deal with a lot of Evangelicals at AA, and yes, they are very pro-Trump.

Craig B · 9th December 2019, 02:08 AM

Originally Posted by catsmate

You even get such nonsense in Catholicism, look at Lord of the World (wiki) a century old End Times dystopia by a RCC priest which has been depressingly popular with several popes.

Even more depressing is the same author's Dawn of All. More depressing because it is a Utopia, relating events that the author wishes to happen. The resulting text would have warmed Torquemada's heart. Of interest, Benson was a convert to Catholicism. His father was Archbishop of Canterbury, no less, from 1883 until his death in 1896.

Craig4 · 10th December 2019, 12:40 PM

To keep the Russians out of our elections, I'd gladly make common cause with the Devil.

halleyscomet · 10th December 2019, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by Craig4

To keep the Russians out of our elections, I'd gladly make common cause with the Devil.

sphenisc · 20th December 2019, 05:28 PM

Christianity Today, founded by Billy Graham, takes another view.

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct...U9J8zNfi-8NNng

carlitos · 27th December 2019, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by DuvalHMFIC

Don't forget, this is the same clown who is taking tuition for his "school" and buying up all sorts of property with it-which is NOT for the school.

Maybe you are thinking of Jerry Lamon Falwell Jr. and Liberty University?

Thor 2 · 27th December 2019, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

Remember for many Chrisitians the anti christ is necessary for "the end times".

A thought that had occurred to me also. Perhaps many christians welcome Trump because of his so obvious faults. He exceeds in all attributes needed for an anti christ. Bring on the end times!

DuvalHMFIC · 27th December 2019, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by carlitos

Maybe you are thinking of Jerry Lamon Falwell Jr. and Liberty University?

Good catch-they all look the same to me

1st December 2019, 04:34 PM	#1
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,810	F Graham (son of Billy) "Opposing Trump is the work of the Devil" And another threshold of crazy is crossed by some Evangelical leaders. Why in hell is this idiot, Trump, some kind of Evangelical hero? The Atlantic: Are Trump’s Critics Demonically Possessed? Two of the president’s prominent evangelical supporters are literally demonizing his opponents. Quote: It isn’t enough for Franklin Graham and Eric Metaxas, two prominent figures within the American evangelical movement, to lavish praise on President Donald Trump. They have now decided they must try to demonize his critics. Literally.... During his November 21 interview with Graham, Metaxas, a Salem Radio Network talk-show host, asked the son of the late evangelist Billy Graham, “What do you think of what is happening now? I mean, it’s a very bizarre situation to be living in a country where some people seem to exist to undermine the president of the United States. It's just a bizarre time for most Americans.” Franklin Graham, president and CEO of the Billy Graham Evangelical Association, responded, “Well, I believe it’s almost a demonic power that is trying—” At which point Metaxas interjected, “I would disagree. It’s not almost demonic. You know and I know, at the heart, it’s a spiritual battle.” Not about money, no siree: Quote: ...(Graham argued that a strong economy leads to more tithing and church-building programs.) ... To which Graham responded, “I believe that Donald Trump believes—he believes in God. He believes in Jesus Christ. His depth—he doesn’t, you know, he went to churches here in New York; he didn’t get a whole lot of teaching.” Quote: ...They didn’t make the case that Trump critics are sincere but wrong, or even that they are insincere and unpatriotic. Instead, they felt compelled to portray those with whom they disagree politically as under demonic influences, which for a Christian is about as serious an accusation as there is. It means their opponents are the embodiment of evil, the “enemy,” anti-God, a kind of anti-Christ. Quote: Just ask yourself where this game ends. Do demonic powers explain opposition to all politicians supported by Graham and Metaxas, or to Trump alone? Would they argue that all Christians (and non-Christians) who oppose Trump are under the influence of Satan? ... For Graham and Metaxas, it appears that agreeing with them equates to agreeing with God—and disagreeing with them, at least when it comes to Donald Trump, means doing the work of the evil one. Of course they went on to lie about Trump's economy (great) and falsely denigrate Obama's (a disaster). But when Clinton's economy was even better, these guys were not excusing his morals.

1st December 2019, 05:26 PM	#2
Norman Alexander Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 8,743	Of course, the Grahams and Metaxas and a whole bunch of those guys know EXACTLY what God is thinking. They have his voice in their heads...as do many lunatics. Reality is this is all about money and that's all. They don't want the sheep they are fleecing to get any ideas that they could be sheep.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

1st December 2019, 06:59 PM	#3
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 16,753	Someone left the asylum doors unlocked again.
	__________________ I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms. - Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project) If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

1st December 2019, 10:10 PM	#5
Norman Alexander Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Gundungurra Posts: 8,743	Originally Posted by Giordano Seems like an odd position for a "religious" man to take, given Trump appears to me to fit all the qualifications expected of the Antichrist... "Religious"??! Are you kidding? My goldfish is more "religious" than any of them. You need to remember that evangelism in the USA is inevitably a giant money-making scam with a very thin and usually cracked veneer of religiosity stuck over it. Its success is totally reliant on the sheep remaining sheep. Under no circumstances would anyone reasonably expect these people to actually adhere to any precepts we would expect of a "religious" practitioner. It's all about the money for them, and the scams they use to get it. And if that means utterly illogical and contradictory pronouncements, and suck-like-your-life-depends-on-it for The Donald, they will do it. Not a scruple in sight.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

1st December 2019, 11:13 PM	#7
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,622	Evangelicals aren't a religion, they are a multi-level marketing scheme.
	__________________ So what are you going to do about it, huh? What would an intellectual do? What would Plato do?

1st December 2019, 09:43 PM	#4
Giordano Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 17,646	Seems like an odd position for a "religious" man to take, given Trump appears to me to fit all the qualifications expected of the Antichrist...

1st December 2019, 10:54 PM	#6
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,810	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander "Religious"??! Are you kidding? My goldfish is more "religious" than any of them. You need to remember that evangelism in the USA is inevitably a giant money-making scam with a very thin and usually cracked veneer of religiosity stuck over it. Its success is totally reliant on the sheep remaining sheep. Under no circumstances would anyone reasonably expect these people to actually adhere to any precepts we would expect of a "religious" practitioner. It's all about the money for them, and the scams they use to get it. And if that means utterly illogical and contradictory pronouncements, and suck-like-your-life-depends-on-it for The Donald, they will do it. Not a scruple in sight. This ^

2nd December 2019, 12:10 AM	#8
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,810	I think that's a good description.

2nd December 2019, 04:51 AM	#9
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 96,869	Originally Posted by Giordano Seems like an odd position for a "religious" man to take, given Trump appears to me to fit all the qualifications expected of the Antichrist... Remember for many Chrisitians the anti christ is necessary for "the end times".
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

2nd December 2019, 06:18 AM	#10
DuvalHMFIC Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,558	Don't forget, this is the same clown who is taking tuition for his "school" and buying up all sorts of property with it-which is NOT for the school.
	__________________ Ben is sick ladies and gentlemen, thats right, Ben is sick.

2nd December 2019, 09:04 AM	#11
halleyscomet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 10,259	Originally Posted by DuvalHMFIC Don't forget, this is the same clown who is taking tuition for his "school" and buying up all sorts of property with it-which is NOT for the school. It’s amazing how effective a con religion can be.
	__________________ Look what I found! There's this whole web site full of skeptics that spun off from the James Randy Education Foundation!

2nd December 2019, 04:31 PM	#12
Max_mang Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 431	My pet conspiracy theory: It's all about Pence. The end goal of the evangelicals is a christian theocracy in the US. Christian evangelicals agreed to put their support (estimated at around 33% of the US vote) behind Trump if he brought Mike Pence with him. If Trump is put out of office for any reason, Pence takes over. If Trump goes one term, Pence was brought to the world stage. If Trump goes two full terms, then Pence will have 8 years of presidential grooming. It's win-win-win. Pence is only 60 years old, he will be in prime presidential candidate age for some time to come. Check out Pence's stuff from the 90's and early 2000's. Even w/out the gay-conversion therapy crap, he's a hardcore jeebus guy who thinks everyone should have a super puritan lifestyle.
Max_mang Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 431

2nd December 2019, 05:13 PM	#13
sts60 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,694	I’m distracted from Franklin Graham’s actual words by the whiff of brimstone and treason every time he opens his mouth.
sts60 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,694

2nd December 2019, 05:15 PM	#14
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 49,523	Originally Posted by sts60 I’m distracted from Franklin Graham’s actual words by the whiff of brimstone and treason every time he opens his mouth. Do you think he should be tried for treason?

2nd December 2019, 06:40 PM	#15
Roger Ramjets Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,328	Originally Posted by Max_mang My pet conspiracy theory: It's all about Pence. The end goal of the evangelicals is a christian theocracy in the US. Christian evangelicals agreed to put their support (estimated at around 33% of the US vote) behind Trump if he brought Mike Pence with him. If Trump is put out of office for any reason, Pence takes over. Nice theory, but it's wrong. If Trump wasn't personally good for them it would be a different story. Pence was just their insurance policy in case Trump screwed it up.
	__________________ We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.

2nd December 2019, 06:43 PM	#16
Roger Ramjets Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,328	Originally Posted by theprestige Do you think he should be tried for treason? Only if the other 62,984,827 traitors who voted for Trump are too.
	__________________ We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.

3rd December 2019, 10:33 AM	#17
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,814	Originally Posted by Darat Remember for many Chrisitians the anti christ is necessary for "the end times". You even get such nonsense in Catholicism, look at Lord of the World (wiki) a century old End Times dystopia by a RCC priest which has been depressingly popular with several popes.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

7th December 2019, 07:06 AM	#18
HansMustermann Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 17,999	You had me at he's against Trump. You don't have to oversell Satan
	__________________ Which part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you understand?

7th December 2019, 12:12 PM	#19
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,622	Pence is utterly optional at this point: if you asked Evangelicals who they'd rather have as President, it would be Trump, not Pence.
	__________________ So what are you going to do about it, huh? What would an intellectual do? What would Plato do?

8th December 2019, 02:24 PM	#20
DuvalHMFIC Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,558	I deal with a lot of Evangelicals at AA, and yes, they are very pro-Trump.
	__________________ Ben is sick ladies and gentlemen, thats right, Ben is sick.

9th December 2019, 02:08 AM	#21
Craig B Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 22,841	Originally Posted by catsmate You even get such nonsense in Catholicism, look at Lord of the World (wiki) a century old End Times dystopia by a RCC priest which has been depressingly popular with several popes. Even more depressing is the same author's Dawn of All. More depressing because it is a Utopia, relating events that the author wishes to happen. The resulting text would have warmed Torquemada's heart. Of interest, Benson was a convert to Catholicism. His father was Archbishop of Canterbury, no less, from 1883 until his death in 1896.
	Last edited by Craig B; 9th December 2019 at 02:13 AM.

10th December 2019, 12:40 PM	#22
Craig4 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: I live in a swamp Posts: 22,550	To keep the Russians out of our elections, I'd gladly make common cause with the Devil.

10th December 2019, 12:55 PM	#23
halleyscomet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 10,259	Originally Posted by Craig4 To keep the Russians out of our elections, I'd gladly make common cause with the Devil.
	__________________ Look what I found! There's this whole web site full of skeptics that spun off from the James Randy Education Foundation!

20th December 2019, 05:28 PM	#24
sphenisc Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,383	Christianity Today, founded by Billy Graham, takes another view. https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct...U9J8zNfi-8NNng
sphenisc Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,383	__________________ "The cure for everything is salt water - tears, sweat or the sea." Isak Dinesen

27th December 2019, 02:08 PM	#25
carlitos "más divertido" Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA! USA! Posts: 22,786	Originally Posted by DuvalHMFIC Don't forget, this is the same clown who is taking tuition for his "school" and buying up all sorts of property with it-which is NOT for the school. Maybe you are thinking of Jerry Lamon Falwell Jr. and Liberty University?

27th December 2019, 04:44 PM	#26
Thor 2 Philosopher Join Date: May 2016 Location: Brisbane, Aust. Posts: 6,591	Originally Posted by Darat Remember for many Chrisitians the anti christ is necessary for "the end times". A thought that had occurred to me also. Perhaps many christians welcome Trump because of his so obvious faults. He exceeds in all attributes needed for an anti christ. Bring on the end times!
	__________________ Thinking is a faith hazard.

27th December 2019, 07:09 PM	#27
DuvalHMFIC Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,558	Originally Posted by carlitos Maybe you are thinking of Jerry Lamon Falwell Jr. and Liberty University? Good catch-they all look the same to me
	__________________ Ben is sick ladies and gentlemen, thats right, Ben is sick.