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Tags 2016 elections , donald trump , presidential candidates , racism charges , Trump supporters

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Old 24th August 2016, 08:52 AM   #361
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Isn't the issue about what someone considers "better"? Can't you talk about the morality of those goals? For instance repealing" Obamacare" or in other words removing medical treatment for millions of USA citizens?
Sure, you can talk about the morality of those goals, but the issue isn't so easy to settle. A colleague claims his premium and deductible have tripled since the passage of Obamacare and he feels that he's being victimized by being forced to subsidize those who "won't" work. Of course, it's hard to say with certainty why his premium and deductible have increased so much, and we can surely discuss the factual claim that some people just don't want to work, but the question of whether(T the working middle class has an obligation to subsidize health care for the poor is a harder nut to crack.

I tend to think that decent folk can disagree on this issue. (To be sure, wasting congressional time trying to repeal Obamacare for mere political points, knowing that it will not be repealed, that's a whole other issue.)
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Old 24th August 2016, 09:47 AM   #362
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Premiums have increased under Obamacare because Obamacare sets minimum standards that companies exceeded prior to its implementation.

Seeing an opportunity to exercise their greed, they now offer their employees the minimum standards. They saw a loophole and took advantage of it.
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Old 24th August 2016, 10:56 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Premiums have increased under Obamacare because Obamacare sets minimum standards that companies exceeded prior to its implementation.

Seeing an opportunity to exercise their greed, they now offer their employees the minimum standards. They saw a loophole and took advantage of it.
The hell with the health insurers. Let the government insure everyone. Also it's time to rein in the pharmaceutical companies and their exorbitant price gouging.
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Old 24th August 2016, 11:02 AM   #364
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Which part of Exceptionalism did you not understand?
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Old 27th August 2016, 09:01 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Isn't the issue about what someone considers "better"? Can't you talk about the morality of those goals? For instance repealing" Obamacare" or in other words removing medical treatment for millions of USA citizens?
Those people ain't "real" citizens. They're just the other people. To make America better, those people need to die off... Make America Great Again!!
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Old 10th September 2016, 07:44 PM   #366
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http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/10/us...ked/index.html

Would anyone like to hazard a guess as to which Presidential candidate this paragon of American patriotism supports on social media?
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Old 12th September 2016, 09:30 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
The hell with the health insurers. Let the government insure everyone.
Careful... that might not necessarily work as well as you might think.

Canada has a 'single payer' system (i.e. all taxpayer funded, for certain aspects of our helth care). And for the most part, it sucks. The commonwealth fund did a ranking of 11 western health care systems, and Canada was second last. The only one that did worse was the U.S., and the U.S. even beat Canada in a couple of areas.

The best health care systems in the world tend to be the ones that mix public and private funding.
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Also it's time to rein in the pharmaceutical companies and their exorbitant price gouging.
Again, one of these complex issues that a simple answer (i.e. "rein them in") might be counter productive.

Granted, you can probably find examples where drug prices were probably raised unfairly (e.g. Shkreli raising the price of an HIV drug from $13.50 to $750). But, drug development is a risky business, with many failures, risks of lawsuits, and high development costs. Plus, you have generics, which means that drug manufacturers have a very limited time to recoup their development costs (which means high short-term prices).

If you try to restrict costs too much, you may end up removing the incentive to create new cures.

From: http://content.healthaffairs.org/con...2/245.abstract
...returns (profits on drugs have fallen sharply since then, with those for the 2005–09 cohort being very slightly negative and, on average, failing to recoup research and development and other costs. If this level of diminished returns persists, we believe that the rewards for innovation will not be sufficient for pharmaceutical manufacturers to maintain the historical rates of investments needed to sustain biomedical innovation.

I want to stress that I'm not excusing the drug companies from all their mistakes. They were rightly condemned for bribing certain doctors for example. Just that trying to control their profits may backfire. There are no easy answers.
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Old 12th September 2016, 10:26 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Canada has a 'single payer' system (i.e. all taxpayer funded, for certain aspects of our helth care). And for the most part, it sucks. The commonwealth fund did a ranking of 11 western health care systems, and Canada was second last. The only one that did worse was the U.S., and the U.S. even beat Canada in a couple of areas.
So if we adopt the Canadian system, we will be taking on the very worst health care system and it would still be a marginal improvement.

Sounds to me like we should aim for single payer and find a happy compromise somewhere in the middle.
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Old 12th September 2016, 11:16 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
So if we adopt the Canadian system, we will be taking on the very worst health care system and it would still be a marginal improvement.

Sounds to me like we should aim for single payer and find a happy compromise somewhere in the middle.
I say this again: the ACA is a horrible mess of Health Care reform. Screwed up, poorly implemented. And it was STILL better than what was in place before.

The USA has the distinct advantage of being able to see what other countries have done, and to use those successes to help avoid the problems so as to craft a system that best for the USA.

It will likely never happen because of mouth breathers that scream 'SOCIALISM!', and then mutter 'I've got mine, screw you'.
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Old 13th September 2016, 06:23 PM   #370
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Basket of deplorables.

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Police say they arrested five people at Trump's night rally Monday in Asheville, and as of publishing have warrants out for two more people.

Police plan to arrest Richard Campbell of Edisto Island, South Carolina for assault on a female.

That female is 69-year-old Shirley Teter.

...

"I said you better learn to speak Russian, and I said the first two words are going to be, ha ha. He stopped in his tracks, and he turned around and just cold-cocked me," Teter said.

She was punched in the face.

She says she fell on her oxygen tank and has sore ribs, a sore jaw, and cut her elbow. She later went to the hospital and is thankful she did not break any bones.
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Old 13th September 2016, 07:12 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Just because these kinds of things are often committed by Trump supporters doesn't mean it is typical........
It is very similar to what Hillary supporters do.....
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Old 13th September 2016, 07:38 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Just because these kinds of things are often committed by Trump supporters doesn't mean it is typical........

It is very similar to what Hillary supporters do.....


Plz Ken, why did you leave the sarcasm emoji out? This season I can't tell who believes what any more...
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Old 18th September 2016, 01:21 PM   #373
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Hate Crimes Against American Muslims Most Since Post-9/11 Era

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Some scholars believe that the violent backlash against American Muslims is driven not only by the string of terrorist attacks in Europe and the United States that began early last year, but also by the political vitriol from candidates like Donald J. Trump, who has called for a ban on immigration by Muslims and a national registry of Muslims in the United States.

“We’re seeing these stereotypes and derogative statements become part of the political discourse,” said Brian Levin, the director of the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism at the San Bernardino campus. “The bottom line is we’re talking about a significant increase in these types of hate crimes.”

He said that the frequency of anti-Muslim violence appeared to have increased immediately after some of Mr. Trump’s most incendiary comments.
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Old 18th September 2016, 06:33 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
The hell with the health insurers. Let the government insure everyone. Also it's time to rein in the pharmaceutical companies and their exorbitant price gouging.
This is not possible without scrapping patent law and the FDA. FDA makes it hard to file a process for manufacture in short time. You make your "cheaper pill" and it needs a 6 month stability study.

New drugs (unlike epipens) can be priced at any price. And monoclonal antibodies, say an Alzheimer cure, will be costly to manufacture.
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Old 18th September 2016, 06:43 PM   #375
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Typical Trump supporters blame the entire Middle East mess on Clinton. Not on Bush, not on the civil wars breaking out all over the place, nope, it's all Clinton's fault.

They just said so on Fox News.

And, they believe Clinton called half the public deplorable. That cannot be a mistake, they have to know she said half of Trump's supporters, not all of them and not half the country. But, nope, Trump supporters purposefully lie about what Clinton said, trying their very best to equate the comment to Romney's 47% takers comment.

She looked tired on the plane news conference, therefore she's completely exhausted. Yep, that's what typical Trump supporters believe.
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Old 18th September 2016, 07:19 PM   #376
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What they also seem to believe is that the president (and in this case secretary of state) is all-powerful and therefore all-culpabale if America is perfect.
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Old 21st September 2016, 11:36 AM   #377
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The Daily Show makes a play for relevance by interviewing bone-headed Trump supporters: https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/sta...72065146187776

(You may need to activate the volume.)
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Old 21st September 2016, 11:54 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
The Daily Show makes a play for relevance by interviewing bone-headed Trump supporters: https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/sta...72065146187776

(You may need to activate the volume.)
We are doomed...
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Old 21st September 2016, 12:45 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
The Daily Show makes a play for relevance by interviewing bone-headed Trump supporters: https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/sta...72065146187776

(You may need to activate the volume.)
I'm wondering if any anti-Trump people thought that was the slightest bit funny. I may be biased, but I didn't actually find any humor in it. The Daily Show used to be a comedy show, right?
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Old 21st September 2016, 12:47 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
I'm wondering if any anti-Trump people thought that was the slightest bit funny. I may be biased, but I didn't actually find any humor in it. The Daily Show used to be a comedy show, right?
Its not easy to be funny when referring to the train wreck that America will be if Trump gets in.

This is serious.
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Old 21st September 2016, 12:50 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
I'm wondering if any anti-Trump people thought that was the slightest bit funny. I may be biased, but I didn't actually find any humor in it. The Daily Show used to be a comedy show, right?
What a fantastic coincidence! The interviewees apparently are all ISF members!
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Old 21st September 2016, 12:53 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Its not easy to be funny when referring to the train wreck that America will be if Trump gets in.

This is serious.
Well, then, I've gotta wonder why the Daily Show had that segment. I certainly had my issues with Jon Stewart's bias and his sense of fairness, but at least he never made me question whether his show was a comedy. Watching an interviewer prompt gullible Trump supporters to repeat age-old conspiracy theories that everybody's heard a thousand times before is not my idea of a laugh riot.
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Old 21st September 2016, 12:54 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
What a fantastic coincidence! The interviewees apparently are all ISF members!
Have you been taking lessons in comedy from Trevor Noah?
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Old 21st September 2016, 01:08 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Have you been taking lessons in comedy from Trevor Noah?
I've seen him in person. He's a riot.
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Old 21st September 2016, 02:24 PM   #385
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Jimmy Kimmel Live! went up to Trump supporters on the street and said, "As you know, Donald Trump released his taxes today. What do you think of..." and then made up ridiculous deductions and exemptions. Can skip to the 40 second mark.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
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Old 21st September 2016, 02:55 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Jimmy Kimmel Live! went up to Trump supporters on the street and said, "As you know, Donald Trump released his taxes today. What do you think of..." and then made up ridiculous deductions and exemptions. Can skip to the 40 second mark.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
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So I've heard that Donald Trump donated $40000 to the Jared Fogel defense from. People are saying it happened.

I did like the genius who thought that breast pumps were for making breasts bugger
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Old 22nd September 2016, 12:12 AM   #387
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Well, then, I've gotta wonder why the Daily Show had that segment. I certainly had my issues with Jon Stewart's bias and his sense of fairness, but at least he never made me question whether his show was a comedy. Watching an interviewer prompt gullible Trump supporters to repeat age-old conspiracy theories that everybody's heard a thousand times before is not my idea of a laugh riot.
Why is that? Those are many of the same people who express themselves in polls. Are you going to ignore the polls because people who you would prefer weren't on your side support your candidate and their right to be ignorant and gullible.

These are the people filling his arenas, high-fiving each other when someone shouts "Trump the Bitch" or "Lock Her Up", to repeat the less bigoted shout outs he gets.

This is the GOP base. Those of you willing to accept them and their votes to achieve your own haughty agendas need to own them. They're yours.

The Daily Show has been an actual source for news, more pertinent than much of the news we get on "serious" news shows, for quite sometime. It's sad that you don't see the humor. Stupid is funny.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 01:08 AM   #388
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
I'm wondering if any anti-Trump people thought that was the slightest bit funny. I may be biased, but I didn't actually find any humor in it. The Daily Show used to be a comedy show, right?
it's not funny, it's incredibly scary.
Just like the Kimmel video about the taxes.

People make up so much **** to save their belief in Trump.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 06:17 AM   #389
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I'll just leave this here

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Edited by kmortis:  Removed to comply with Rule 12

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Old 22nd September 2016, 06:38 AM   #390
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Why is that? Those are many of the same people who express themselves in polls. Are you going to ignore the polls because people who you would prefer weren't on your side support your candidate and their right to be ignorant and gullible.
Wow, you're doing some serious projecting. There are millions of stupid/irrational/ignorant/gullible people supporting Hillary too. I couldn't care less if someone like you wants to use selection bias and availability bias to convince yourself that there are more of such people on your enemy's side than your side. It would be easy to do something similarly mocking, yet unfunny, by interviewing Democrats at a Hillary rally. My only question was "why do it unless it is actually funny?" That wasn't funny. I've seen episodes of "Ask a bunch of people off-the-wall questions and edit the footage down to the craziest and funniest answers" many times, and there's usually at least a giggle or a smile in there somewhere. Even when the target was people I have sympathy for. From the perspective of comedy, I thought that bit was embarrassingly bad. Now, I do worry sometimes that I let political biases intrude into my aesthetic judgments, which is why I asked what other people thought. I gather now that most people agree with me, however. Which raises another question. To wit, if a comedy show intentionally airs a bit that is objectively humorless, is it really trying to be a comedy show anymore? Has the Daily Show just become an incompetent comedy show, or is it really just an opinion show now?

Quote:
These are the people filling his arenas, high-fiving each other when someone shouts "Trump the Bitch" or "Lock Her Up", to repeat the less bigoted shout outs he gets.

This is the GOP base. Those of you willing to accept them and their votes to achieve your own haughty agendas need to own them. They're yours.
The Democratic base is equally ignorant, emotional, and illogical. Actually, I suspect it's worse, on average. Interestingly, I've met people like those The Daily Show mocked in the interview sketch and I've found that once you get past the initial bluster (or perhaps trolling), they can be thoughtful and introspective, and they actually can come up with good reasons for their political positions. I've found that this is less the case with Democrats. Now, it could easily be due to the circles I travel in, which have a high density of Democrats. Being among like-minded people tends to dull the brain and allow one to shut out and dismiss alternative points of view. The Republicans around me don't have that luxury. If I went to Texas, the situation might be reversed.

Quote:
The Daily Show has been an actual source for news, more pertinent than much of the news we get on "serious" news shows, for quite sometime. It's sad that you don't see the humor. Stupid is funny.
Ok, does that mean you thought it was funny? Seriously?
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Old 22nd September 2016, 06:41 AM   #391
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
it's not funny, it's incredibly scary.
Just like the Kimmel video about the taxes.

People make up so much **** to save their belief in Trump.
Meh, not scary. The footage is edited down to the craziest answers, and often the subjects realize it's for a comedy show and play along with it. You should search for outtakes or unedited video from previous Daily Show interviews on YouTube. It's really all incredibly artificial and manipulated. It's practically fiction.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 07:26 AM   #392
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Wow, you're doing some serious projecting. There are millions of stupid/irrational/ignorant/gullible people supporting Hillary too. I couldn't care less if someone like you wants to use selection bias and availability bias to convince yourself that there are more of such people on your enemy's side than your side. It would be easy to do something similarly mocking, yet unfunny, by interviewing Democrats at a Hillary rally. My only question was "why do it unless it is actually funny?" That wasn't funny. I've seen episodes of "Ask a bunch of people off-the-wall questions and edit the footage down to the craziest and funniest answers" many times, and there's usually at least a giggle or a smile in there somewhere. Even when the target was people I have sympathy for. From the perspective of comedy, I thought that bit was embarrassingly bad. Now, I do worry sometimes that I let political biases intrude into my aesthetic judgments, which is why I asked what other people thought. I gather now that most people agree with me, however. Which raises another question. To wit, if a comedy show intentionally airs a bit that is objectively humorless, is it really trying to be a comedy show anymore? Has the Daily Show just become an incompetent comedy show, or is it really just an opinion show now?



The Democratic base is equally ignorant, emotional, and illogical. Actually, I suspect it's worse, on average. Interestingly, I've met people like those The Daily Show mocked in the interview sketch and I've found that once you get past the initial bluster (or perhaps trolling), they can be thoughtful and introspective, and they actually can come up with good reasons for their political positions. I've found that this is less the case with Democrats. Now, it could easily be due to the circles I travel in, which have a high density of Democrats. Being among like-minded people tends to dull the brain and allow one to shut out and dismiss alternative points of view. The Republicans around me don't have that luxury. If I went to Texas, the situation might be reversed.



Ok, does that mean you thought it was funny? Seriously?
The people interviewed seem to have been the early crowd at a Trump event? Can't say, but they appeared to be in front of an arena or theater of some sort.

Have you seen the crap they sell? You get a choice of Trump That Bitch, Hillary Sucks But Not Like Monica, the Confederate flag with "Trump 2016" on it, Donald Trump - Finally Someone With Balls..... etc...

They may have been interviewing vendors, for all we know. Of course they picked the dimmest bulbs, but I believe they're not that hard to find. The far-crazy wing is out there. America's Sheriff yesterday debated like an ISF regular.... that we should take care to note that Donald didn't actually say that the birth certificate was legitimate or that he really believes he's qualified to be president, just that "Obama was born in the USA".

Of course they picked the most egregious. John Watters does the same thing for his O'Reilly segment, just picking on liberals and Hillary supporters.

Funny? Well, in an OMG Should This Person Be Allowed Near Sharp Objects sort of way, yeah.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 10:51 AM   #393
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"There was no racism in Ohio before Obama."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...m-before-obama

I bet she actually believes that.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 11:09 AM   #394
snoop_doxie
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
"There was no racism in Ohio before Obama."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...m-before-obama

I bet she actually believes that.
Quote:
Donald Trump’s campaign chair in a crucial Ohio county has resigned after an interview with the Guardian in which she said there was no racism in America until the election of Barack Obama.
From the same source.

Was she manipulated into what she said?
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Last edited by snoop_doxie; 22nd September 2016 at 11:44 AM. Reason: Removed call out to a specific poster. Bad form.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 11:09 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
"There was no racism in Ohio before Obama."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...m-before-obama

I bet she actually believes that.
In other words: we were OK with a black man becoming president as long as no one ever did.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 11:11 AM   #396
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
In other words: we were OK with a black man becoming president as long as no one ever did.
This fine, upstanding Trump supporter just resigned from her campaign chair.

Wonder why?

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Old 22nd September 2016, 11:18 AM   #397
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Originally Posted by snoop_doxie View Post
This fine, upstanding Trump supporter just resigned from her campaign chair.

Wonder why?

I wish I could remember where I read it, but another upstanding county official actually said something to the effect that (and I paraphrase but not by much) "Well, Trump got kind of a late start and by the time he started building local organizations we're about all that was left."

It's not easy to find local soccer moms or Kiwanis Club people who are willing to man the phones, put up the lawn signs and flog your crud every day. It's not surprising that if your message is crap you're going to attract crap.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 11:26 AM   #398
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Originally Posted by snoop_doxie View Post
From the same source.

It is really a shame "It's really all incredibly artificial and manipulated. It's practically fiction."

sunmaster, do you have any comment on this woman, (Trump's campaign
chair in Ohio
)?

Was she manipulated into what she said?

Do you support her views?
My bold. Just in the one county, I think.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 11:42 AM   #399
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
My bold. Just in the one county, I think.
You are correct. It was the county chair.

My apologies.
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Old 24th September 2016, 09:25 PM   #400
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
"There was no racism in Ohio before Obama."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...m-before-obama

I bet she actually believes that.
To be fair, she isn't a typical Trump supporter. She was a leader of Trump supporters.
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