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Tags David A Clarke Jr. , jail and prison incidents , Milwaukee incidents , Terrill Thomas , Trump supporters

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Old 21st September 2016, 07:17 AM   #1
ponderingturtle
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The People's Sheriff has man die of dehydration in his Jail

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b04a1497b5f12e

Not too surpsizing he wouldn't have a well run jail.
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Old 21st September 2016, 07:58 AM   #2
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Was that story about death in a jail or about Trump? The reporter managed to include Trump's name three times.

Ranb
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Old 21st September 2016, 08:25 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Was that story about death in a jail or about Trump? The reporter managed to include Trump's name three times.

Ranb
What would you expect when an elected county sheriff makes over $150,000 in a year as a political activist?
Quote:
A recent disclosure form revealed that Clarke took in more than $150,000 in speaking fees, travel reimbursements and gifts in 2015.
We certainly can't have any reasonable expectation that he's spending enough time doing the job he was elected to do...
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Old 21st September 2016, 02:03 PM   #4
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Well, Trump steps on his crank on a regular basis so there is plenty of other fodder out there for the reporters to chew on. They could keep it about the victim and the people who let him slowly die.
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Old 21st September 2016, 02:06 PM   #5
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That would be one ugly way to go
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Old 21st September 2016, 03:44 PM   #6
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What? No one is defending the act?

O.K...I'll have a go.

The guy was obviously a criminal, or he wouldn't have been in jail. And he was probably on PCP.

That's the best I could, do. Anybody else want to have a go?
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Old 21st September 2016, 04:28 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Jules Galen View Post
What? No one is defending the act?

O.K...I'll have a go.

The guy was obviously a criminal, or he wouldn't have been in jail. And he was probably on PCP.

That's the best I could, do. Anybody else want to have a go?
Excited Delirium is a dangerous condition that can strike prisoners at random. Symptoms vary, but include: looking like you got the **** beaten out of you and tazed 31 times, or looking like you're dying of thirst. Very little is known about this danger, but we do know it is always an unavoidable accident.

Last edited by Senor_Pointy; 21st September 2016 at 04:32 PM.
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Old 21st September 2016, 05:44 PM   #8
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I normally avoid threads like this..but this is just messed up. Cops are human, just like the rest of us, and they make mistakes. Sometimes those mistakes cost people their lives. But this is straight up manslaughter. In jail, you're supposed to get 3 squares. It might only be a dry baloney sandwich on stale bread, with watered down orange "drink"....but it's sustenance. Not providing the most basic human needs, like water, is a criminal act.
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Old 21st September 2016, 06:07 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Macgyver1968 View Post
I normally avoid threads like this..but this is just messed up. Cops are human, just like the rest of us, and they make mistakes. Sometimes those mistakes cost people their lives. But this is straight up manslaughter. In jail, you're supposed to get 3 squares. It might only be a dry baloney sandwich on stale bread, with watered down orange "drink"....but it's sustenance. Not providing the most basic human needs, like water, is a criminal act.
In jail, you're supposed to have permanent, unrestricted access to water - fountain/sink and toilet; in the case of a plumbing problem (or a water-related disciplinary issue), drinking water should be provided immediately on request. Period. Removing access to water is unquestionably a civil rights violation, and letting a prisoner die of dehydration after removing that access is unquestionably murder. Whomever gave the order to deny water to the prisoner (someone had to - I can't see every guard/officer denying water around the clock on their own hooks) should go to prison, as should anyone who implemented the order and didn't report the violation.

Last edited by Babbylonian; 21st September 2016 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 21st September 2016, 08:40 PM   #10
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I wonder how the that part of the prison is laid out. Could no other inmate give him water?
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Old 21st September 2016, 09:50 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Senor_Pointy View Post
Excited Delirium is a dangerous condition that can strike prisoners at random. Symptoms vary, but include: looking like you got the **** beaten out of you and tazed 31 times, or looking like you're dying of thirst. Very little is known about this danger, but we do know it is always an unavoidable accident.
Yep, the symptoms vary by jurisdiction. In NYC, a former college jock who got away from the cops twice by swinging off of a fire escape and vaulting himself to an adjacent rooftop and then somersaulting over a yellow cab, got Excited Delirium, a.k.a. "teh clumsies", lost all senses of coordination and balance and fell down three flights of stairs in the precinct.

I mean,.... it happens, right?

Seriously... I knew a cop in the Village in NYC who said that the boys in blue used to joke about the slippery steps in the 8th Precinct (I made that up because he named an actual precinct - there is no 8th in Manhattan). All kinds of people were always falling down stairs, there.
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Old 21st September 2016, 11:09 PM   #12
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What's lack of water?

Food can be a while, but think water is 3-4 days maybe.

Depending on heat.

It is basically murder by torture.

And Se7en creepyish
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Old 22nd September 2016, 04:15 AM   #13
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I would have a hard time understanding how it could not reach the legal standard of depraved indifference. To me it sounds like criminal negligence, but I am not familiar with the laws in that jurisdiction.

I hope the individuals involved feel the full weight of the justice system.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 04:36 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
I would have a hard time understanding how it could not reach the legal standard of depraved indifference. To me it sounds like criminal negligence, but I am not familiar with the laws in that jurisdiction.

I hope the individuals involved feel the full weight of the justice system.
I'd go sadistic

Absolutely no evidence but sense there may have been taunting
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Old 22nd September 2016, 10:57 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Well, Trump steps on his crank on a regular basis so there is plenty of other fodder out there for the reporters to chew on. They could keep it about the victim and the people who let him slowly die.
Because the Sheriff in trouble over this is a outspoken Trump supporter.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 11:40 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Because the Sheriff in trouble over this is a outspoken Trump supporter.
And spoke and the RNC convention.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 11:45 AM   #17
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And it's proof that Police Brutality comes in all colors.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 11:47 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And it's proof that Police Brutality comes in all colors.
So...are you saying that Police Brutality is OK because not all of it is racist?
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Old 22nd September 2016, 11:54 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Jules Galen View Post
So...are you saying that Police Brutality is OK because not all of it is racist?
No this guy is pretty damn racist. He is just an example of the somewhat rarer form of racist, the black hating black man.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 01:39 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Jules Galen View Post
So...are you saying that Police Brutality is OK because not all of it is racist?
I am really not following your logic. I read Dudalb's post and cannot understand how you reached the point of asking that question.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 02:00 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
I am really not following your logic. I read Dudalb's post and cannot understand how you reached the point of asking that question.
Was thinking the same thing.

Rather odd reaction
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Old 22nd September 2016, 02:08 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And it's proof that Police Brutality comes in all colors.
Is it proof of anything about the county sheriff?
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Old 22nd September 2016, 02:12 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
Is it proof of anything about the county sheriff?
That he's bad at his job.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 02:21 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
Is it proof of anything about the county sheriff?
That he is a waste of oxygen

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Old 22nd September 2016, 02:53 PM   #25
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It's more evidence the Trump campaign's dog whistles attract the worst kind of people.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 02:55 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
That he's bad at his job.
Perhaps criminally so. It absolutely must be investigated in the interest of justice.

That doesn't mean it will be.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 03:02 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Was that story about death in a jail or about Trump? The reporter managed to include Trump's name three times.

Ranb
The same reason why people insist on calling the President, "Barack Hussein Obama"; attempting to create guilt by specious association.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 03:03 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Perhaps criminally so. It absolutely must be investigated in the interest of justice.

That doesn't mean it will be.
"Perhaps"?

Please tell me this piece of filth cop won't get off murder
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Old 22nd September 2016, 04:08 PM   #29
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Hmmm. I see that no one, including the OP, has bothered to mention that the sheriff in question is David A Clarke Jr., the person who died of dehydration in his jail was Terrill Thomas, or that this happened in a jail in Milwaukee.

Links often expire, and when they do a thread like this becomes pretty meaningless because there's no clue who or what is actually being talked about. There's lots of verbiage, minimal specific factual content. It shouldn't take until post 29 in a thread before key points such as the name of the sheriff who let an inmate die of dehydration is even mentioned.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 04:49 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Nova Land View Post
Hmmm. I see that no one, including the OP, has bothered to mention that the sheriff in question is David A Clarke Jr., the person who died of dehydration in his jail was Terrill Thomas, or that this happened in a jail in Milwaukee.

Links often expire, and when they do a thread like this becomes pretty meaningless because there's no clue who or what is actually being talked about. There's lots of verbiage, minimal specific factual content. It shouldn't take until post 29 in a thread before key points such as the name of the sheriff who let an inmate die of dehydration is even mentioned.
The cops name is in the url of the link and in the article it links to.

He is also a mate of Trumps which is irrelevant
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Old 22nd September 2016, 08:22 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Nova Land View Post
Hmmm. I see that no one, including the OP, has bothered to mention that the sheriff in question is David A Clarke Jr., the person who died of dehydration in his jail was Terrill Thomas, or that this happened in a jail in Milwaukee.

Links often expire, and when they do a thread like this becomes pretty meaningless because there's no clue who or what is actually being talked about. There's lots of verbiage, minimal specific factual content. It shouldn't take until post 29 in a thread before key points such as the name of the sheriff who let an inmate die of dehydration is even mentioned.
I am on the fence with this one.
When the link does expire, people who want to know more will have to google the names mentioned in your post. And if you had never made that post, then they would have to google the date and the crime. I see it as the same amount of work either way.

Also, as charges are filed (or even if they are not filed), more links will be forthcoming.

I suppose if the goal were to get people to write more comprehensive and descriptive OPs (a cause I vigorously support) I might have chosen a more polite way of addressing the issue (and I will confess i have been insufferably rude in some recent threads, so glass houses and all that). You describe the first 28 posts as being long on verbiage and short on facts. You have listed three important facts, but now that they have been mentioned, I am not sure the next 28 posts will be more facts and less verbiage. After all, it is not like every post can introduce a new fact; and this is an emotionally wrenching story so some verbiage is to be expected.

But in the end I will side more with you than against you; even just two or three lines from the news link would be a useful and productive way to start every thread about a media covered story.

ETA
lastly, even if the link expires, anyone who uses the quote function on the first post can see the relevant names embedded in the URL (and can continue to do so after the link expires or the news site disappears).
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Old 23rd September 2016, 12:23 AM   #32
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End of the day, dude dies from being denied the simple human right of water.

And dies in one of the most horrific ways possible.

Boss is saddistic scum.

He is also a wimp on a power trip. Probably insecure over his own manliness
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Old 23rd September 2016, 05:53 AM   #33
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While this is absolutely disgusting it has to be a freak accident, there is no way this could have been forseeable by the staff - wait, what?
Quote:
Heipt said he has received calls from other former inmates of the Milwaukee County Jail who said the water to their cells had been cut off, too. In fact, another inmate, Antonio Cowser, died in 2011 after water to his cell was turned off.
Other inmates were telling the staff that Terill Thomas was dying of thirst? He diectly begged them for water? For days?! Other inmates have had their water cut off? Another inmate in the same freaking jail was locked out of reach of water for days and died of thirst FIVE FREAKING YEARS AGO!!??!!

The administrators and guards at that jail are murderers. They should be arrested at once and the jail taken over by feds. This situation would be unacceptable in the penal system of a third world failed state. For it to have happened and be happening and be accepted as business as usual in the USA is utterly disgraceful.
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Old 23rd September 2016, 06:55 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Jules Galen View Post
That's the best I could, do. Anybody else want to have a go?
I think I can do better:

Something obviously went terribly wrong, and someone needs to be held accountable, probably with criminal charges. But at this point, with basically no details about the particulars, there's no reason to try to blame the sheriff for this death. We need to wait for more details to emerge, and see how the sheriff handles this case, before we can conclude that he's at fault here. The article's attempts to tie his political activism to this case is at this point pure political propaganda.
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Old 23rd September 2016, 07:03 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Carnivore View Post
Other inmates have had their water cut off?
I'm going to play Devil's Advocate a little more. The article does not indicate whether these inmates were provided with water.

So here's one possible hypothetical: the prison is old and has periodic plumbing problems. Water to some cells gets turned off while plumbing get fixed. During that time, inmates are provided with drinking water. Everything's fine.

Now, that obviously didn't happen in THIS case, obviously this inmate wasn't given the water that he needed, but it may have happened in other cases. The story does not tell us why water was cut off in these other cases, and it does not tell us what happened while the water was cut off. These are questions that should be asked and answered, because it's certainly possible that water was cut off for illegitimate reasons, and it's certainly possible that whatever the reason, adequate drinking water may not have been provided. But it's also possible that the answers could demonstrate that there wasn't a pattern of abuse.
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Old 23rd September 2016, 07:07 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
Is it proof of anything about the county sheriff?
Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
That he's bad at his job.
This one episode doesn't prove anything but this doesn't look good.
Although I have no idea of how many people go through this prison system.


Quote:
Eighteen people died in the custody of law enforcement agencies throughout Milwaukee County from 2008 to 2012. Ten of them had medical conditions that were improperly monitored or left untreated, a Milwaukee Journal Sentinel investigation found.
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Old 23rd September 2016, 07:17 AM   #37
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It's pretty depressing (but sadly not surprising) that there are people defending/excusing this.
From the comments on the article ...

"Solution - stay out of jail.
Don't break the law and be cordial to everyone you meet.
Leave your "attitude " at home
Be a productive member of society
Respect others
Mind your own business"

"Well, by degree's of seperation Obama is responsible for this then. And the rising death toll in Chicago, the terror attacks by his "religon of peace" brethren in Minniapolis and New Jersey would also be attributable to Hussein Obama."

"There is a possible explanation for them denying him water if he was flooding his cell all the time. If he was raising hell and getting worked up he would lose water by sweating. The sheriffs pollitical thoughts have no bearing on this case. It is too bad the guy died but if he would have stayed home and not shoot up the casino he might be alive today."

"Lol, y'all just hate the police. Congratulations, a sherrif's deputy or two didn't fufill their duties. You must feel great for catching Sherrif Clark for SOMETHING. Because most of you can't stand an officer of the Law, who happens to be black, speaking the truth that you all can't get through your heads."
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Old 23rd September 2016, 07:44 AM   #38
TheGoldcountry
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Originally Posted by Finster View Post
It's pretty depressing (but sadly not surprising) that there are people defending/excusing this.
From the comments on the article ...
Wow. That is some authentic frontier gibberish.
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Old 23rd September 2016, 07:50 AM   #39
eeyore1954
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The water was shut off supposedly because he had flooded his cell. But that should have nothing to do with ensuring he had access to water.
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Old 25th September 2016, 05:06 PM   #40
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That's the same reason for Keaton Farris' death in the Island County jail in 2015. They turned off the water to his cell after he flooded it. After 12 days of not eating, no medication, and less than 1 1/2 gallons (about 5.5 liters) of water given to him total, he died.

Our jails have become our de facto mental hospitals, and they provide little to no treatment.

The way the system is set up, being able to apply for benefits usually means you're coping well enough that you don't need them, so if you're dealing with a major mental illness and don't have someone willing to devote themselves to helping you negotiate the system, you'll fall through the cracks. This is one of the many reasons so many people are imprisoned in this country.
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