Are all Trump supporters racists? - Page 10

ponderingturtle · 15th December 2016, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by blutoski

I'm not sure 'abandoned' is appropriate. Her platform contained detailed plans for reviving Rust Belt employment. It was just part of a general employment boosting strategy for everybody. My concern is that 'abandoned' is a synonym for 'treated as equal to those other demographics,' which actually reinforces the accusation of racism, unfortunately. Also, when this is pointed out, some critics say "Well she shouldn't have just put it on the website version of the platform, she should have spoon fed it to the white blue collar males in targetted advertising or something instead of giving them the intellectual challenge of doing online research to make their voting decisions." This sounds like the opposite of "She was treating them like they were dumb yokels," so this is one of the things that I try to understand: was she treating them like they were dumb, or was she overestimating their abilities? Fish or cut bait, y'know?

And had the downside of being focused on things that were actually possible not the fairytale entitlements promised to them by trump. Don't you understand they are entitled to these jobs that pay high wages regardless of the skills involved or the labor markets. Because capitalism is the enemy.

blutoski · 15th December 2016, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

And had the downside of being focused on things that were actually possible not the fairytale entitlements promised to them by trump. Don't you understand they are entitled to these jobs that pay high wages regardless of the skills involved or the labor markets. Because capitalism is the enemy.

Yes her proposals were essentially shifting those communities' economies into more advanced service industry and tech jobs, taking for granted that the original industries were not returning. In retrospect, this reality talk is not what the voter segment in question wanted to hear. It's cognitive dissonance, unfortunately.

Manufacturing had different challenges than resource extraction industries, and I think there's different solutions for each of those.

Resource extraction has lost labour force mostly to technology. I think there is a coal example above. Here in BC, we're seeing the same for forestry, mining, fishing. I was just in a lumbermill tour where the tour guide pointed out that automation has reduced the mill staffing by 95% over the last 30 years, while increasing output by a factor of four. So to restore the original staffing levels, the market needs to expand to eighty times its size, which is impossible, and anyway not going to happen just because corporate taxes are reduced by a fraction.

Those careers are just doing what they've been doing for 500 years. Machines make people more productive and since there's only so many safety pins beer or cars the world can consume at any price, this means layoffs. But, good news: the invisible hand of the market will find work for idle people. However, this is dependent on inventing entirely new industries, not expanding the existing ones. And new industries is dependent on entrepreneurs. And entrepreneurship is dependent on access to education and social/geographical mobility.

Having said that, here's the new problem: most of these new industries have not hired these layoffs from old advanced capitalized industries; but rather, they have opened shops overseas and hired foreigners. OK: the complainants have a point here, this is new versus 50 years ago. I don't think it's unreasonable to resent this trend, and I am not as pessimistic about returning a portion of those factories to the US through the result of some sort of free-market-hostile socialist command economy policy like tariffs. But I am pessimistic about the net economic gains for workers' standard of living.

Either way, blaming brown folk for getting work to feed their families instead of the CEOs who shipped the jobs overseas is the type of distraction that can only be fuelled by racism.

Mumbles · 15th December 2016, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

I wouldn't worry about the police. As a White man, I have more chance of being shot and killed by police than you. As police shoot Whites more often than Blacks. This war against cops is largely just propaganda of some hard Left groups. Don't fall for it.

I'll trust my experiences in life far before random people on the internet when it comes to protecting myself and my family, thank you very much. And my life experience tells me that nearly every adult black male has had to deal with out of control police, often police who become violent at the drop of a hat. And since Trump has made a campaign pledge to push to make this worse, I'll continue to work against him.

Quote:

I realize you have been exposed to Leftist beliefs for quite some time now, but to equate Reagan with being racist is beyond the realm of reality. The man did not have a racist bone in his body.

I'm discussing his policies, not his skeleton.

Quote:

I understand the frustration you feel. But don't judge Trump by what other's have said, judge him by his actions. We'll see exactly what he does for the Country, if he does nothing I'll join you in being frustrated and bitter. But let's wait and see. You never know.

I am judging him by his actions. He has, for decades, portrayed himself as a white supremacist, and I will treat him as such. I will also treat people who voted for him with caution, until I know them. As we've seen since he began his campaign, while not all of his supporters are loudmouthed bigots, a majority of them do believe racial stereotypes.

The Don · 16th December 2016, 01:27 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

I think it's still tied into this topic Don , since we're basically talking about the election and how the differing views are seen by each side.

No, the topic is whether all Trump's supporters are racist. IMO they are not but they are tolerant of racism (which is probably what I've said in the first 2 or 3 pages).

btw it's "The Don" my username has nothing to do with my RL name.

The Don · 16th December 2016, 01:34 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Trump is not a racist.

If he isn't racist, he's done a great impersonation of one for 40+ years

He, and his business, was successfully prosecuted back in the 70's for not renting to black tenants.

His pronouncements during the Presidential campaign have been covered at length in this thread. It could be that they were hyperbole or rhetoric but again it goes back to a great impersonation of a racist.

theprestige · 16th December 2016, 02:31 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

If he isn't racist, he's done a great impersonation of one for 40+ years

He, and his business, was successfully prosecuted back in the 70's for not renting to black tenants.

His pronouncements during the Presidential campaign have been covered at length in this thread. It could be that they were hyperbole or rhetoric but again it goes back to a great impersonation of a racist.

What's the most racist pronouncement he's made, that's been covered in this thread?

The Don · 16th December 2016, 03:06 AM

Originally Posted by theprestige

What's the most racist pronouncement he's made, that's been covered in this thread?

It's difficult to choose - why don't you decide ?

uke2se · 16th December 2016, 04:03 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

So he didn't call all Mexicans rapists after all. Point taken. Chris B.

No, he just called all Mexican immigrant rapists.

Mumbles · 16th December 2016, 06:39 AM

Did I forget those times when Trump called on his followers to "monitor" voting places in "certain neighborhoods" in cities? Or his direct calls to "rough up" black protestors at his rallies (compare this to now Obama reacted to protestors)? Or the time he called a black supporter a "thug" (that most common of racial code words) and had him ejected from a rally?

Like I said, it's hard to remember all of the evidence of outright racism from the campaign alone.

ChrisBFRPKY · 16th December 2016, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by Mumbles

I'll trust my experiences in life far before random people on the internet when it comes to protecting myself and my family, thank you very much. And my life experience tells me that nearly every adult black male has had to deal with out of control police, often police who become violent at the drop of a hat. And since Trump has made a campaign pledge to push to make this worse, I'll continue to work against him.

I'm discussing his policies, not his skeleton.

I am judging him by his actions. He has, for decades, portrayed himself as a white supremacist, and I will treat him as such. I will also treat people who voted for him with caution, until I know them. As we've seen since he began his campaign, while not all of his supporters are loudmouthed bigots, a majority of them do believe racial stereotypes.

Trump is a recent convert to Conservatism. Meaning, he was Democrat and a big Democrat donor for decades. Hillary Clinton was a guest at his wedding. Seems odd to me that only now is this "racist" background thing a thing. Seems rather difficult to accept that while he was a Democrat and party donor , he was a great guy.........yet all of a sudden when he shifts to Conservative, he's now sold as a long time racist and white supremie by the Left....

Are you at all concerned that you may be a little naive? Let's see it from YOUR point of view and say Trump is a racist. How long was he a racist as a Democrat vs how long he has been a racist as a Republican? Did you consider this at all? Chris B.

ChrisBFRPKY · 16th December 2016, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

If he isn't racist, he's done a great impersonation of one for 40+ years

He, and his business, was successfully prosecuted back in the 70's for not renting to black tenants.

His pronouncements during the Presidential campaign have been covered at length in this thread. It could be that they were hyperbole or rhetoric but again it goes back to a great impersonation of a racist.

You mean to say Trump was a racist when he was a Democrat and donor? Why only now do we hear about this? hmmmm?

Chris B.

ChrisBFRPKY · 16th December 2016, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis

Just ... no.

In 2015, The Washington Post launched a real-time database to track fatal police shootings, and the project continues this year. As of Sunday, 1,502 people have been shot and killed by on-duty police officers since Jan. 1, 2015. Of them, 732 were white, and 381 were black (and 382 were of another or unknown race).

But as data scientists and policing experts often note, comparing how many or how often white people are killed by police to how many or how often black people are killed by the police is statistically dubious unless you first adjust for population.

According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis published last week, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.

Don't fall for it.

You forgot the percentage of Black population committing crimes vs the percentage of White population committing crimes........

A higher percentage of one race will ensure a higher mortality rate during criminal/cop conflicts. Whites are more apt to be shot by police than Blacks. You really need to get away from the sources that parrot "Hands up Don't shoot" Fantasy does not mix well with fact. Chris B.

Mumbles · 16th December 2016, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Trump is a recent convert to Conservatism. Meaning, he was Democrat and a big Democrat donor for decades.

So?

Quote:

Hillary Clinton was a guest at his wedding. Seems odd to me that only now is this "racist" background thing a thing. Seems rather difficult to accept that while he was a Democrat and party donor , he was a great guy.........yet all of a sudden when he shifts to Conservative, he's now sold as a long time racist and white supremie by the Left....

The answer is obvious. He was *always* a bigot, a sexual predator, a business failure, a dullard, and a narcissist. This "but he used to be a democrat" stuff is mere handwaving. You just weren't paying attention to him. I grew up near NYC, in Boston, and I've always considered him to be a terrible person - only the sex predator stuff was new to me.

Quote:

Are you at all concerned that you may be a little naive? Let's see it from YOUR point of view and say Trump is a racist. How long was he a racist as a Democrat vs how long he has been a racist as a Republican? Did you consider this at all? Chris B.

Well, however long he was a democrat, versus however long he was a republican. This entire issue is mere handwaving - party affiliation tells us relatively little about whether a person is a bigot, compared to, as an example, whether or not they refer to random black people as "thugs" without evidence.

ChrisBFRPKY · 16th December 2016, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by Mumbles

Sorry, y'all. I forgot to mention Trump's close partnership with white nationalist Steve Bannon, his nomination of white supremacist and civil rights opponent Jeff Sessions to the Attorney General post, his habit of retweeting white genociders, and his apparent signing on to voter suppression efforts that the GOP has been obsessed with ever since Obama was voted into office.

It's hard to keep up with all of the blatantly racist things Trump's done.

Let's agree to see it your way and say in fact these folks Trump associates with are racists. I don't believe that, but just as a discussion we'll go there.
If Obama had/has contacts with racists groups or people, would you likewise define Obama as a racist? Chris B.

ChrisBFRPKY · 16th December 2016, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by Mumbles

So?

The answer is obvious. He was *always* a bigot, a sexual predator, a business failure, a dullard, and a narcissist. This "but he used to be a democrat" stuff is mere handwaving. You just weren't paying attention to him. I grew up near NYC, in Boston, and I've always considered him to be a terrible person - only the sex predator stuff was new to me.

Well, however long he was a democrat, versus however long he was a republican. This entire issue is mere handwaving - party affiliation tells us relatively little about whether a person is a bigot, compared to, as an example, whether or not they refer to random black people as "thugs" without evidence.

But why only now do we hear this racism stuff about Trump? Not a peep while he was a Democrat.......Why? If it's true now then it was true then right?
Something smells funny to me. Chris B.

uke2se · 16th December 2016, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

But why only now do we hear this racism stuff about Trump? Not a peep while he was a Democrat.......Why? If it's true now then it was true then right?
Something smells funny to me. Chris B.

Quite a few people called him a racist during the Central Park 5 incident.

Perhaps you just weren't paying attention before?

The Don · 16th December 2016, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

You mean to say Trump was a racist when he was a Democrat and donor? Why only now do we hear about this? hmmmm?

Chris B.

As uke2se pointed out, he was called on it during the Central Park 5 furore.

Of course he was legally called on it during the 1970's.

Of course he didn't spend quite so much time consorting with racists when he supported the Democratic Party

Mumbles · 16th December 2016, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

But why only now do we hear this racism stuff about Trump? Not a peep while he was a Democrat.......Why? If it's true now then it was true then right?
Something smells funny to me. Chris B.

I heard about it for decades. I also pointed it out when he was pushing his racist crap about Obama back in 2011 back when this was the JREF forum. Again, if you didn't hear about it, then you likely weren't paying attention.

ChrisBFRPKY · 16th December 2016, 08:34 AM

I think he called for justice for the victim. He didn't call for lynching Blacks and Hispanics.
Chris B.

ChrisBFRPKY · 16th December 2016, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by Mumbles

I heard about it for decades. I also pointed it out when he was pushing his racist crap about Obama back in 2011 back when this was the JREF forum. Again, if you didn't hear about it, then you likely weren't paying attention.

Questioning where Obama was born is racist? Why? Simply because he's a Black man? Was it also racist when he questioned where Cruz was born? Perhaps you are applying a racist label where no racism exists. Ever think about that?
Chris B.

ChrisBFRPKY · 16th December 2016, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

As uke2se pointed out, he was called on it during the Central Park 5 furore.

Of course he was legally called on it during the 1970's.

Of course he didn't spend quite so much time consorting with racists when he supported the Democratic Party

So the Democrats knew Trump was racist, yet they accepted his donations and even attended his wedding.......and that was ok, back then, but not now?
Chris B.

The Don · 16th December 2016, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

So the Democrats knew Trump was racist, yet they accepted his donations and even attended his wedding.......and that was ok, back then, but not now?
Chris B.

I don't know, you'll have to ask them how they squared it away.

ChrisBFRPKY · 16th December 2016, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

I don't know, you'll have to ask them how they squared it away.

I think the obvious answer is that he wasn't a racist then and he's not one now.
As guilt by association would also catch Hillary Clinton. Chris B.

The Don · 16th December 2016, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

I think the obvious answer is that he wasn't a racist then and he's not one now.
As guilt by association would also catch Hillary Clinton. Chris B.

No, the obvious answer is that he has always been racist but those in receipt of his largesse were either unaware of it or decided that he wasn't so racist that it was a big enough problem to refuse the money.

varwoche · 16th December 2016, 09:04 AM

Bumping this question for ChrisBFRPKY:

Originally Posted by varwoche

Do you acknowledge that Trump propagated false information emanating from a neo-nazi source concerning black on white crime? And that he has never retracted, even once the source was debunked?

Well? A simple yes or no will suffice.

Mumbles · 16th December 2016, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Questioning where Obama was born is racist? Why? Simply because he's a Black man? Was it also racist when he questioned where Cruz was born? Perhaps you are applying a racist label where no racism exists. Ever think about that?
Chris B.

Claiming that Obama wasn't born in the US, and that he couldn't have had good grades, and that his first book must have been ghostwritten by a random white guy (Again, Bill Ayers) despite clear evidence that all three claims are incorrect, is the sort of white supremacist crapthat goes back to the days of slavery. "Oh, the black guy isn't really American, he can't possibly be smarter than white people, how could he possibly write a decent book?"

Yeah, I've heard that same racist crap throughout my own life - as I've said before, it's a list of everything racist white people say about successful black people.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

I think the obvious answer is that he wasn't a racist then and he's not one now.
As guilt by association would also catch Hillary Clinton. Chris B.

Or, that Bill and Hillary were at best highly tolerant of racism - which their history plainly shows that they were. I only became enthusiastic about Hillary this year, when she began to make it clear that she was planning to work for racial equality, and began taking advice from an all-star cast of black women (as opposed to Trump, who has assembled the KKK's greatest hits.)

desmirelle · 16th December 2016, 09:08 AM

I know of two medical professionals who voted AGAINST Hillary because of their concerns about her mental condition. They explained that she'd had a brain bleed (or clot, I forget exactly which) and then, in her testimony about her emails repeatedly stated she did not know what the confidentiality codes were on her Sec of State emails.....their concern was a president with an UNDISCLOSED/UNRECOGNIZED mental problem. (I didn't ask if they voted for don or gary, but the gay guy volunteered he voted for trump.)

Aridas · 16th December 2016, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

But why only now do we hear this racism stuff about Trump? Not a peep while he was a Democrat.......Why? If it's true now then it was true then right?
Something smells funny to me. Chris B.

What reason would you, or most people, have had to care? Was Trump a serious contender for a government position then, for example? Either way, your arguments have been sounding rather weak and desperate for a while now. Why do YOU want Trump to not be seen as a racist so badly that you keep tendering such obviously flimsy excuses? For the sake of protecting the your idealized view of the Republican Party, maybe? The Republican Party was quite worth of support back in Lincoln's day, after all, and the Democratic Party was rather worthy of disdain long ago, too. Perhaps you share a number of racist sentiments with him and don't want to admit they're racist? Many people don't like admitting their unpleasant or irrational side is actually unpleasant or irrational.

Whatever the case, Trump seems to fairly clearly be a racist, based on his actual words and actions. I pointedly voted against Trump, but then, like now, I considered his racism to be a rather superficial concern and still don't really see why so many people have latched onto it as if it were more important than the actually serious concerns. Even with those serious concerns, though, the fact remains that he was elected President (or rather, is extremely likely to be in a couple days,) under the existing system, fairly certainly as an unintended result of the nasty, but generally legal, politics that the Republican Party has been stooping to for a fair while now. Given that he has, I'm pointedly hoping that either I'm wrong and Trump will turn out to be a far, far better President than the signs point to or that people will learn from their mistakes and this black mark on American history will be a turning point and reminder that will make things better later on.

varwoche · 16th December 2016, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by desmirelle

I know of two medical professionals who voted AGAINST Hillary because of their concerns about her mental condition. They explained that she'd had a brain bleed (or clot, I forget exactly which) and then, in her testimony about her emails repeatedly stated she did not know what the confidentiality codes were on her Sec of State emails.....their concern was a president with an UNDISCLOSED/UNRECOGNIZED mental problem. (I didn't ask if they voted for don or gary, but the gay guy volunteered he voted for trump.)

Whereas I know of a medical professional who thinks actual angels from heaven walk among us.

In other words, your weak anecdote informs readers of precisely nothing.

WilliamSeger · 16th December 2016, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Trump is a recent convert to Conservatism. Meaning, he was Democrat and a big Democrat donor for decades. Hillary Clinton was a guest at his wedding. Seems odd to me that only now is this "racist" background thing a thing. Seems rather difficult to accept that while he was a Democrat and party donor , he was a great guy.........yet all of a sudden when he shifts to Conservative, he's now sold as a long time racist and white supremie by the Left....

Are you at all concerned that you may be a little naive? Let's see it from YOUR point of view and say Trump is a racist. How long was he a racist as a Democrat vs how long he has been a racist as a Republican? Did you consider this at all? Chris B.

Any attempt to analyze the Boy King as if he is a normal person is doomed to failure. He's a self-serving narcissist who can put on any mask he needs to manipulate the audience at hand, so you look a little silly claiming someone else is naive. He was never a "great guy." It's really a shame that his parents made the mistake of sending him to military school instead of a therapist; at that age, he probably could have been helped. Anyway, it's pretty obvious why he was a "Democrat" when he was wheeling and dealing in Manhattan, and why he switched to the Republican Party when he decided to run for president. The reason is certainly not flattering to Republicans.

Mumbles · 16th December 2016, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Aridas

Whatever the case, Trump seems to fairly clearly be a racist, based on his actual words and actions. I pointedly voted against Trump, but then, like now, I considered his racism to be a rather superficial concern and still don't really see why so many people have latched onto it as if it were more important than the actually serious concerns.

What exactly do you mean by "actual serious concerns"? I assure you, this is an extremely serious concern to me, my family, and my friends, because we stand to be directly impacted by his open white supremacy, much like the brazen racism and homophobia that infested the North Carolina GOP directly affected my family, and some friends, who lived there.

And while GOPers might stand up against some of Trump's more outlandish nominations, such as John Bolton, we've learned over the years that we absolutely cannot rely on white Americans to stand up for minority rights. If anything, we can expect that a majority of white Americans will not do so - as they demonstrated on November 8th of this year.

ChrisBFRPKY · 16th December 2016, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Aridas

What reason would you, or most people, have had to care? Was Trump a serious contender for a government position then, for example? Either way, your arguments have been sounding rather weak and desperate for a while now. Why do YOU want Trump to not be seen as a racist so badly that you keep tendering such obviously flimsy excuses? For the sake of protecting the your idealized view of the Republican Party, maybe? The Republican Party was quite worth of support back in Lincoln's day, after all, and the Democratic Party was rather worthy of disdain long ago, too. Perhaps you share a number of racist sentiments with him and don't want to admit they're racist? Many people don't like admitting their unpleasant or irrational side is actually unpleasant or irrational.

Whatever the case, Trump seems to fairly clearly be a racist, based on his actual words and actions. I pointedly voted against Trump, but then, like now, I considered his racism to be a rather superficial concern and still don't really see why so many people have latched onto it as if it were more important than the actually serious concerns. Even with those serious concerns, though, the fact remains that he was elected President (or rather, is extremely likely to be in a couple days,) under the existing system, fairly certainly as an unintended result of the nasty, but generally legal, politics that the Republican Party has been stooping to for a fair while now. Given that he has, I'm pointedly hoping that either I'm wrong and Trump will turn out to be a far, far better President than the signs point to or that people will learn from their mistakes and this black mark on American history will be a turning point and reminder that will make things better later on.

It's perfectly fine to view Trump as you wish. I just don't see him as a racist. A few poorly worded comments doesn't condemn someone or brand them as a racist. We tend to overlook the exact same type of poorly worded comments when they come from individuals on the Left. Who was it that said "Republicans are gonna put ya'll back in chains." or can we remember who said young Black men were "Super predators".......If we apply the same rules as are being applied to Trump, then Biden and Clinton are racists. How about the comment Bill Clinton made about Obama? "A few years ago, this guy would have been carrying our bags."

Really now, are you quite sure poorly worded statements are a qualifier for determining who is a racist? And thereby labeling those that own them racists? I'll go along with it if you will. Chris B.

ChrisBFRPKY · 16th December 2016, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by WilliamSeger

Any attempt to analyze the Boy King as if he is a normal person is doomed to failure. He's a self-serving narcissist who can put on any mask he needs to manipulate the audience at hand, so you look a little silly claiming someone else is naive. He was never a "great guy." It's really a shame that his parents made the mistake of sending him to military school instead of a therapist; at that age, he probably could have been helped. Anyway, it's pretty obvious why he was a "Democrat" when he was wheeling and dealing in Manhattan, and why he switched to the Republican Party when he decided to run for president. The reason is certainly not flattering to Republicans.

I don't believe for a second the people that voted for Trump thought they were buying an angel and a perfect person. That's exactly where the Clinton campaign went wrong. What was purchased was a savvy businessman to run the US with common sense and an attitude of America first. The character qualities you mention and that Clinton repeatedly attacked were of no concern for most voters. Chris B.

TheL8Elvis · 16th December 2016, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

You forgot the percentage of Black population committing crimes vs the percentage of White population committing crimes........

A higher percentage of one race will ensure a higher mortality rate during criminal/cop conflicts. Whites are more apt to be shot by police than Blacks. You really need to get away from the sources that parrot "Hands up Don't shoot" Fantasy does not mix well with fact. Chris B.

You conveniently forgot to provide any facts.

FAIL.

theprestige · 16th December 2016, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

It's difficult to choose - why don't you decide ?

It's not my claim, and not my criteria. I can't understand what you think by telling you what I think.

ChrisBFRPKY · 16th December 2016, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Mumbles

Claiming that Obama wasn't born in the US, and that he couldn't have had good grades, and that his first book must have been ghostwritten by a random white guy (Again, Bill Ayers) despite clear evidence that all three claims are incorrect, is the sort of white supremacist crapthat goes back to the days of slavery. "Oh, the black guy isn't really American, he can't possibly be smarter than white people, how could he possibly write a decent book?"

Yeah, I've heard that same racist crap throughout my own life - as I've said before, it's a list of everything racist white people say about successful black people.

Or, that Bill and Hillary were at best highly tolerant of racism - which their history plainly shows that they were. I only became enthusiastic about Hillary this year, when she began to make it clear that she was planning to work for racial equality, and began taking advice from an all-star cast of black women (as opposed to Trump, who has assembled the KKK's greatest hits.)

So you really see the US as a Black and a White Nation? I think equal treatment for all without any regard for skin color is more like it.
That's me though. If you look for racism with a chip on your shoulder, you're gonna find it, even where it doesn't exist. Chris B.

WilliamSeger · 16th December 2016, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

I don't believe for a second the people that voted for Trump thought they were buying an angel and a perfect person. That's exactly where the Clinton campaign went wrong. What was purchased was a savvy businessman to run the US with common sense and an attitude of America first. The character qualities you mention and that Clinton repeatedly attacked were of no concern for most voters. Chris B.

The reality TV "savvy businessman" whose actual career is mistake after mistake and is most noted for bankruptcies and taking advantage of people who trusted him? "America first" is his biggest lie; it's always Donald first, and nothing else can come in better than second. He's not even sworn in yet and it's clear that he can't deal with any issue whatsoever without his ridiculously bloated but amazingly fragile ego getting in the way. What was that about naive?

ChrisBFRPKY · 16th December 2016, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis

You conveniently forgot to provide any facts.

FAIL.

"In New York from January to June 2008, 83 percent of all gun assailants were black, according to witnesses and victims, though blacks were only 24 percent of the population. Blacks and Hispanics together accounted for 98 percent of all gun assailants. Forty-nine of every 50 muggings and murders in the Big Apple were the work of black or Hispanic criminals."

http://humanevents.com/2013/07/19/bl...-white-racism/

Next.

Chris B.

ChrisBFRPKY · 16th December 2016, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by WilliamSeger

The reality TV "savvy businessman" whose actual career is mistake after mistake and is most noted for bankruptcies and taking advantage of people who trusted him? "America first" is his biggest lie; it's always Donald first, and nothing else can come in better than second. He's not even sworn in yet and it's clear that he can't deal with any issue whatsoever without his ridiculously bloated but amazingly fragile ego getting in the way. What was that about naive?

I wish I could make the same kind of mistakes Trump did that would make me a billionaire........Chris B.

WilliamSeger · 16th December 2016, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

I wish I could make the same kind of mistakes Trump did that would make me a billionaire........Chris B.

Why do you believe he's a billionaire -- because he said so? It's true that almost all of the bankruptcy loses were other people's money (for which he took the tax deductions for 18 years!), but there's a pretty good chance he's not a billionaire except in his own bloated estimation of the worth of the Trump brand. It's possible that he can't divest because he needs the cashflow to service his multi-billion-dollar debts. (We don't know all the details and likely never will, but it is known from public records that he has nearly a billion in personal debt and two billion in company debts.)

And after claiming he was so rich he would finance his own campaign so he wouldn't be beholden to anyone, nobody who's paid attention to his "successful" career should have been surprised when he started taking donations, or that he has now nominated for his administration three people who contributed a total of $11 million.

You've been had.

15th December 2016, 01:18 PM	#361
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,412	Originally Posted by blutoski I'm not sure 'abandoned' is appropriate. Her platform contained detailed plans for reviving Rust Belt employment. It was just part of a general employment boosting strategy for everybody. My concern is that 'abandoned' is a synonym for 'treated as equal to those other demographics,' which actually reinforces the accusation of racism, unfortunately. Also, when this is pointed out, some critics say "Well she shouldn't have just put it on the website version of the platform, she should have spoon fed it to the white blue collar males in targetted advertising or something instead of giving them the intellectual challenge of doing online research to make their voting decisions." This sounds like the opposite of "She was treating them like they were dumb yokels," so this is one of the things that I try to understand: was she treating them like they were dumb, or was she overestimating their abilities? Fish or cut bait, y'know? And had the downside of being focused on things that were actually possible not the fairytale entitlements promised to them by trump. Don't you understand they are entitled to these jobs that pay high wages regardless of the skills involved or the labor markets. Because capitalism is the enemy.
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15th December 2016, 02:32 PM	#362
blutoski Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 12,369	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle And had the downside of being focused on things that were actually possible not the fairytale entitlements promised to them by trump. Don't you understand they are entitled to these jobs that pay high wages regardless of the skills involved or the labor markets. Because capitalism is the enemy. Yes her proposals were essentially shifting those communities' economies into more advanced service industry and tech jobs, taking for granted that the original industries were not returning. In retrospect, this reality talk is not what the voter segment in question wanted to hear. It's cognitive dissonance, unfortunately. Manufacturing had different challenges than resource extraction industries, and I think there's different solutions for each of those. Resource extraction has lost labour force mostly to technology. I think there is a coal example above. Here in BC, we're seeing the same for forestry, mining, fishing. I was just in a lumbermill tour where the tour guide pointed out that automation has reduced the mill staffing by 95% over the last 30 years, while increasing output by a factor of four. So to restore the original staffing levels, the market needs to expand to eighty times its size, which is impossible, and anyway not going to happen just because corporate taxes are reduced by a fraction. Those careers are just doing what they've been doing for 500 years. Machines make people more productive and since there's only so many safety pins beer or cars the world can consume at any price, this means layoffs. But, good news: the invisible hand of the market will find work for idle people. However, this is dependent on inventing entirely new industries, not expanding the existing ones. And new industries is dependent on entrepreneurs. And entrepreneurship is dependent on access to education and social/geographical mobility. Having said that, here's the new problem: most of these new industries have not hired these layoffs from old advanced capitalized industries; but rather, they have opened shops overseas and hired foreigners. OK: the complainants have a point here, this is new versus 50 years ago. I don't think it's unreasonable to resent this trend, and I am not as pessimistic about returning a portion of those factories to the US through the result of some sort of free-market-hostile socialist command economy policy like tariffs. But I am pessimistic about the net economic gains for workers' standard of living. Either way, blaming brown folk for getting work to feed their families instead of the CEOs who shipped the jobs overseas is the type of distraction that can only be fuelled by racism.
	__________________ "Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." - Terry Pratchett

15th December 2016, 11:54 PM	#363
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,396	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY I wouldn't worry about the police. As a White man, I have more chance of being shot and killed by police than you. As police shoot Whites more often than Blacks. This war against cops is largely just propaganda of some hard Left groups. Don't fall for it. I'll trust my experiences in life far before random people on the internet when it comes to protecting myself and my family, thank you very much. And my life experience tells me that nearly every adult black male has had to deal with out of control police, often police who become violent at the drop of a hat. And since Trump has made a campaign pledge to push to make this worse, I'll continue to work against him. Quote: I realize you have been exposed to Leftist beliefs for quite some time now, but to equate Reagan with being racist is beyond the realm of reality. The man did not have a racist bone in his body. I'm discussing his policies, not his skeleton. Quote: I understand the frustration you feel. But don't judge Trump by what other's have said, judge him by his actions. We'll see exactly what he does for the Country, if he does nothing I'll join you in being frustrated and bitter. But let's wait and see. You never know. I am judging him by his actions. He has, for decades, portrayed himself as a white supremacist, and I will treat him as such. I will also treat people who voted for him with caution, until I know them. As we've seen since he began his campaign, while not all of his supporters are loudmouthed bigots, a majority of them do believe racial stereotypes.
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,396

16th December 2016, 04:03 AM	#368
uke2se Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 14,180	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY So he didn't call all Mexicans rapists after all. Point taken. Chris B. No, he just called all Mexican immigrant rapists.
	__________________ Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1

16th December 2016, 06:39 AM	#369
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,396	Did I forget those times when Trump called on his followers to "monitor" voting places in "certain neighborhoods" in cities? Or his direct calls to "rough up" black protestors at his rallies (compare this to now Obama reacted to protestors)? Or the time he called a black supporter a "thug" (that most common of racial code words) and had him ejected from a rally? Like I said, it's hard to remember all of the evidence of outright racism from the campaign alone.
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16th December 2016, 01:27 AM	#364
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,328	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY I think it's still tied into this topic Don , since we're basically talking about the election and how the differing views are seen by each side. No, the topic is whether all Trump's supporters are racist. IMO they are not but they are tolerant of racism (which is probably what I've said in the first 2 or 3 pages). btw it's "The Don" my username has nothing to do with my RL name.

16th December 2016, 01:34 AM	#365
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,328	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Trump is not a racist. If he isn't racist, he's done a great impersonation of one for 40+ years He, and his business, was successfully prosecuted back in the 70's for not renting to black tenants. His pronouncements during the Presidential campaign have been covered at length in this thread. It could be that they were hyperbole or rhetoric but again it goes back to a great impersonation of a racist.

16th December 2016, 02:31 AM	#366
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 49,523	Originally Posted by The Don If he isn't racist, he's done a great impersonation of one for 40+ years He, and his business, was successfully prosecuted back in the 70's for not renting to black tenants. His pronouncements during the Presidential campaign have been covered at length in this thread. It could be that they were hyperbole or rhetoric but again it goes back to a great impersonation of a racist. What's the most racist pronouncement he's made, that's been covered in this thread?

16th December 2016, 03:06 AM	#367
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,328	Originally Posted by theprestige What's the most racist pronouncement he's made, that's been covered in this thread? It's difficult to choose - why don't you decide ?

16th December 2016, 07:53 AM	#370
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,659	Originally Posted by Mumbles I'll trust my experiences in life far before random people on the internet when it comes to protecting myself and my family, thank you very much. And my life experience tells me that nearly every adult black male has had to deal with out of control police, often police who become violent at the drop of a hat. And since Trump has made a campaign pledge to push to make this worse, I'll continue to work against him. I'm discussing his policies, not his skeleton. I am judging him by his actions. He has, for decades, portrayed himself as a white supremacist, and I will treat him as such. I will also treat people who voted for him with caution, until I know them. As we've seen since he began his campaign, while not all of his supporters are loudmouthed bigots, a majority of them do believe racial stereotypes. Trump is a recent convert to Conservatism. Meaning, he was Democrat and a big Democrat donor for decades. Hillary Clinton was a guest at his wedding. Seems odd to me that only now is this "racist" background thing a thing. Seems rather difficult to accept that while he was a Democrat and party donor , he was a great guy.........yet all of a sudden when he shifts to Conservative, he's now sold as a long time racist and white supremie by the Left.... Are you at all concerned that you may be a little naive? Let's see it from YOUR point of view and say Trump is a racist. How long was he a racist as a Democrat vs how long he has been a racist as a Republican? Did you consider this at all? Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,659

16th December 2016, 07:56 AM	#371
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,659	Originally Posted by The Don If he isn't racist, he's done a great impersonation of one for 40+ years He, and his business, was successfully prosecuted back in the 70's for not renting to black tenants. His pronouncements during the Presidential campaign have been covered at length in this thread. It could be that they were hyperbole or rhetoric but again it goes back to a great impersonation of a racist. You mean to say Trump was a racist when he was a Democrat and donor? Why only now do we hear about this? hmmmm? Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,659

16th December 2016, 08:09 AM	#372
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,659	Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis Just ... no. In 2015, The Washington Post launched a real-time database to track fatal police shootings, and the project continues this year. As of Sunday, 1,502 people have been shot and killed by on-duty police officers since Jan. 1, 2015. Of them, 732 were white, and 381 were black (and 382 were of another or unknown race). But as data scientists and policing experts often note, comparing how many or how often white people are killed by police to how many or how often black people are killed by the police is statistically dubious unless you first adjust for population. According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis published last week, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers. Don't fall for it. You forgot the percentage of Black population committing crimes vs the percentage of White population committing crimes........ A higher percentage of one race will ensure a higher mortality rate during criminal/cop conflicts. Whites are more apt to be shot by police than Blacks. You really need to get away from the sources that parrot "Hands up Don't shoot" Fantasy does not mix well with fact. Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,659

16th December 2016, 08:15 AM	#373
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,396	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Trump is a recent convert to Conservatism. Meaning, he was Democrat and a big Democrat donor for decades. So? Quote: Hillary Clinton was a guest at his wedding. Seems odd to me that only now is this "racist" background thing a thing. Seems rather difficult to accept that while he was a Democrat and party donor , he was a great guy.........yet all of a sudden when he shifts to Conservative, he's now sold as a long time racist and white supremie by the Left.... The answer is obvious. He was always a bigot, a sexual predator, a business failure, a dullard, and a narcissist. This "but he used to be a democrat" stuff is mere handwaving. You just weren't paying attention to him. I grew up near NYC, in Boston, and I've always considered him to be a terrible person - only the sex predator stuff was new to me. Quote: Are you at all concerned that you may be a little naive? Let's see it from YOUR point of view and say Trump is a racist. How long was he a racist as a Democrat vs how long he has been a racist as a Republican? Did you consider this at all? Chris B. Well, however long he was a democrat, versus however long he was a republican. This entire issue is mere handwaving - party affiliation tells us relatively little about whether a person is a bigot, compared to, as an example, whether or not they refer to random black people as "thugs" without evidence.
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,396

16th December 2016, 08:17 AM	#374
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,659	Originally Posted by Mumbles Sorry, y'all. I forgot to mention Trump's close partnership with white nationalist Steve Bannon, his nomination of white supremacist and civil rights opponent Jeff Sessions to the Attorney General post, his habit of retweeting white genociders, and his apparent signing on to voter suppression efforts that the GOP has been obsessed with ever since Obama was voted into office. It's hard to keep up with all of the blatantly racist things Trump's done. Let's agree to see it your way and say in fact these folks Trump associates with are racists. I don't believe that, but just as a discussion we'll go there. If Obama had/has contacts with racists groups or people, would you likewise define Obama as a racist? Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,659

16th December 2016, 08:20 AM	#375
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,659	Originally Posted by Mumbles So? The answer is obvious. He was always a bigot, a sexual predator, a business failure, a dullard, and a narcissist. This "but he used to be a democrat" stuff is mere handwaving. You just weren't paying attention to him. I grew up near NYC, in Boston, and I've always considered him to be a terrible person - only the sex predator stuff was new to me. Well, however long he was a democrat, versus however long he was a republican. This entire issue is mere handwaving - party affiliation tells us relatively little about whether a person is a bigot, compared to, as an example, whether or not they refer to random black people as "thugs" without evidence. But why only now do we hear this racism stuff about Trump? Not a peep while he was a Democrat.......Why? If it's true now then it was true then right? Something smells funny to me. Chris B.
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16th December 2016, 08:24 AM	#376
uke2se Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 14,180	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY But why only now do we hear this racism stuff about Trump? Not a peep while he was a Democrat.......Why? If it's true now then it was true then right? Something smells funny to me. Chris B. Quite a few people called him a racist during the Central Park 5 incident. Perhaps you just weren't paying attention before?
	__________________ Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1

16th December 2016, 08:31 AM	#377
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,328	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY You mean to say Trump was a racist when he was a Democrat and donor? Why only now do we hear about this? hmmmm? Chris B. As uke2se pointed out, he was called on it during the Central Park 5 furore. Of course he was legally called on it during the 1970's. Of course he didn't spend quite so much time consorting with racists when he supported the Democratic Party

16th December 2016, 08:32 AM	#378
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,396	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY But why only now do we hear this racism stuff about Trump? Not a peep while he was a Democrat.......Why? If it's true now then it was true then right? Something smells funny to me. Chris B. I heard about it for decades. I also pointed it out when he was pushing his racist crap about Obama back in 2011 back when this was the JREF forum. Again, if you didn't hear about it, then you likely weren't paying attention.
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,396

16th December 2016, 08:34 AM	#379
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,659	I think he called for justice for the victim. He didn't call for lynching Blacks and Hispanics. Chris B.
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16th December 2016, 08:37 AM	#380
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,659	Originally Posted by Mumbles I heard about it for decades. I also pointed it out when he was pushing his racist crap about Obama back in 2011 back when this was the JREF forum. Again, if you didn't hear about it, then you likely weren't paying attention. Questioning where Obama was born is racist? Why? Simply because he's a Black man? Was it also racist when he questioned where Cruz was born? Perhaps you are applying a racist label where no racism exists. Ever think about that? Chris B.
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16th December 2016, 08:41 AM	#381
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,659	Originally Posted by The Don As uke2se pointed out, he was called on it during the Central Park 5 furore. Of course he was legally called on it during the 1970's. Of course he didn't spend quite so much time consorting with racists when he supported the Democratic Party So the Democrats knew Trump was racist, yet they accepted his donations and even attended his wedding.......and that was ok, back then, but not now? Chris B.
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16th December 2016, 08:47 AM	#382
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,328	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY So the Democrats knew Trump was racist, yet they accepted his donations and even attended his wedding.......and that was ok, back then, but not now? Chris B. I don't know, you'll have to ask them how they squared it away.

16th December 2016, 08:52 AM	#383
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,659	Originally Posted by The Don I don't know, you'll have to ask them how they squared it away. I think the obvious answer is that he wasn't a racist then and he's not one now. As guilt by association would also catch Hillary Clinton. Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,659

16th December 2016, 08:57 AM	#384
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,328	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY I think the obvious answer is that he wasn't a racist then and he's not one now. As guilt by association would also catch Hillary Clinton. Chris B. No, the obvious answer is that he has always been racist but those in receipt of his largesse were either unaware of it or decided that he wasn't so racist that it was a big enough problem to refuse the money.

16th December 2016, 09:04 AM	#385
varwoche Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 15,405	Bumping this question for ChrisBFRPKY: Originally Posted by varwoche Do you acknowledge that Trump propagated false information emanating from a neo-nazi source concerning black on white crime? And that he has never retracted, even once the source was debunked? Well? A simple yes or no will suffice.
	__________________ To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot. My authority is total - Trump

16th December 2016, 09:04 AM	#386
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,396	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Questioning where Obama was born is racist? Why? Simply because he's a Black man? Was it also racist when he questioned where Cruz was born? Perhaps you are applying a racist label where no racism exists. Ever think about that? Chris B. Claiming that Obama wasn't born in the US, and that he couldn't have had good grades, and that his first book must have been ghostwritten by a random white guy (Again, Bill Ayers) despite clear evidence that all three claims are incorrect, is the sort of white supremacist crapthat goes back to the days of slavery. "Oh, the black guy isn't really American, he can't possibly be smarter than white people, how could he possibly write a decent book?" Yeah, I've heard that same racist crap throughout my own life - as I've said before, it's a list of everything racist white people say about successful black people. Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY I think the obvious answer is that he wasn't a racist then and he's not one now. As guilt by association would also catch Hillary Clinton. Chris B. Or, that Bill and Hillary were at best highly tolerant of racism - which their history plainly shows that they were. I only became enthusiastic about Hillary this year, when she began to make it clear that she was planning to work for racial equality, and began taking advice from an all-star cast of black women (as opposed to Trump, who has assembled the KKK's greatest hits.)
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,396

16th December 2016, 09:08 AM	#387
desmirelle Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 483	I know of two medical professionals who voted AGAINST Hillary because of their concerns about her mental condition. They explained that she'd had a brain bleed (or clot, I forget exactly which) and then, in her testimony about her emails repeatedly stated she did not know what the confidentiality codes were on her Sec of State emails.....their concern was a president with an UNDISCLOSED/UNRECOGNIZED mental problem. (I didn't ask if they voted for don or gary, but the gay guy volunteered he voted for trump.)

16th December 2016, 09:40 AM	#388
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 7,441	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY But why only now do we hear this racism stuff about Trump? Not a peep while he was a Democrat.......Why? If it's true now then it was true then right? Something smells funny to me. Chris B. What reason would you, or most people, have had to care? Was Trump a serious contender for a government position then, for example? Either way, your arguments have been sounding rather weak and desperate for a while now. Why do YOU want Trump to not be seen as a racist so badly that you keep tendering such obviously flimsy excuses? For the sake of protecting the your idealized view of the Republican Party, maybe? The Republican Party was quite worth of support back in Lincoln's day, after all, and the Democratic Party was rather worthy of disdain long ago, too. Perhaps you share a number of racist sentiments with him and don't want to admit they're racist? Many people don't like admitting their unpleasant or irrational side is actually unpleasant or irrational. Whatever the case, Trump seems to fairly clearly be a racist, based on his actual words and actions. I pointedly voted against Trump, but then, like now, I considered his racism to be a rather superficial concern and still don't really see why so many people have latched onto it as if it were more important than the actually serious concerns. Even with those serious concerns, though, the fact remains that he was elected President (or rather, is extremely likely to be in a couple days,) under the existing system, fairly certainly as an unintended result of the nasty, but generally legal, politics that the Republican Party has been stooping to for a fair while now. Given that he has, I'm pointedly hoping that either I'm wrong and Trump will turn out to be a far, far better President than the signs point to or that people will learn from their mistakes and this black mark on American history will be a turning point and reminder that will make things better later on.
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon. Last edited by Aridas; 16th December 2016 at 09:41 AM.

16th December 2016, 09:43 AM	#389
varwoche Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 15,405	Originally Posted by desmirelle I know of two medical professionals who voted AGAINST Hillary because of their concerns about her mental condition. They explained that she'd had a brain bleed (or clot, I forget exactly which) and then, in her testimony about her emails repeatedly stated she did not know what the confidentiality codes were on her Sec of State emails.....their concern was a president with an UNDISCLOSED/UNRECOGNIZED mental problem. (I didn't ask if they voted for don or gary, but the gay guy volunteered he voted for trump.) Whereas I know of a medical professional who thinks actual angels from heaven walk among us. In other words, your weak anecdote informs readers of precisely nothing.
	__________________ To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot. My authority is total - Trump

16th December 2016, 09:56 AM	#390
WilliamSeger Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,092	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Trump is a recent convert to Conservatism. Meaning, he was Democrat and a big Democrat donor for decades. Hillary Clinton was a guest at his wedding. Seems odd to me that only now is this "racist" background thing a thing. Seems rather difficult to accept that while he was a Democrat and party donor , he was a great guy.........yet all of a sudden when he shifts to Conservative, he's now sold as a long time racist and white supremie by the Left.... Are you at all concerned that you may be a little naive? Let's see it from YOUR point of view and say Trump is a racist. How long was he a racist as a Democrat vs how long he has been a racist as a Republican? Did you consider this at all? Chris B. Any attempt to analyze the Boy King as if he is a normal person is doomed to failure. He's a self-serving narcissist who can put on any mask he needs to manipulate the audience at hand, so you look a little silly claiming someone else is naive. He was never a "great guy." It's really a shame that his parents made the mistake of sending him to military school instead of a therapist; at that age, he probably could have been helped. Anyway, it's pretty obvious why he was a "Democrat" when he was wheeling and dealing in Manhattan, and why he switched to the Republican Party when he decided to run for president. The reason is certainly not flattering to Republicans.
	Last edited by WilliamSeger; 16th December 2016 at 10:00 AM.

16th December 2016, 10:27 AM	#391
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,396	Originally Posted by Aridas Whatever the case, Trump seems to fairly clearly be a racist, based on his actual words and actions. I pointedly voted against Trump, but then, like now, I considered his racism to be a rather superficial concern and still don't really see why so many people have latched onto it as if it were more important than the actually serious concerns. What exactly do you mean by "actual serious concerns"? I assure you, this is an extremely serious concern to me, my family, and my friends, because we stand to be directly impacted by his open white supremacy, much like the brazen racism and homophobia that infested the North Carolina GOP directly affected my family, and some friends, who lived there. And while GOPers might stand up against some of Trump's more outlandish nominations, such as John Bolton, we've learned over the years that we absolutely cannot rely on white Americans to stand up for minority rights. If anything, we can expect that a majority of white Americans will not do so - as they demonstrated on November 8th of this year.
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,396

16th December 2016, 10:55 AM	#392
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,659	Originally Posted by Aridas What reason would you, or most people, have had to care? Was Trump a serious contender for a government position then, for example? Either way, your arguments have been sounding rather weak and desperate for a while now. Why do YOU want Trump to not be seen as a racist so badly that you keep tendering such obviously flimsy excuses? For the sake of protecting the your idealized view of the Republican Party, maybe? The Republican Party was quite worth of support back in Lincoln's day, after all, and the Democratic Party was rather worthy of disdain long ago, too. Perhaps you share a number of racist sentiments with him and don't want to admit they're racist? Many people don't like admitting their unpleasant or irrational side is actually unpleasant or irrational. Whatever the case, Trump seems to fairly clearly be a racist, based on his actual words and actions. I pointedly voted against Trump, but then, like now, I considered his racism to be a rather superficial concern and still don't really see why so many people have latched onto it as if it were more important than the actually serious concerns. Even with those serious concerns, though, the fact remains that he was elected President (or rather, is extremely likely to be in a couple days,) under the existing system, fairly certainly as an unintended result of the nasty, but generally legal, politics that the Republican Party has been stooping to for a fair while now. Given that he has, I'm pointedly hoping that either I'm wrong and Trump will turn out to be a far, far better President than the signs point to or that people will learn from their mistakes and this black mark on American history will be a turning point and reminder that will make things better later on. It's perfectly fine to view Trump as you wish. I just don't see him as a racist. A few poorly worded comments doesn't condemn someone or brand them as a racist. We tend to overlook the exact same type of poorly worded comments when they come from individuals on the Left. Who was it that said "Republicans are gonna put ya'll back in chains." or can we remember who said young Black men were "Super predators".......If we apply the same rules as are being applied to Trump, then Biden and Clinton are racists. How about the comment Bill Clinton made about Obama? "A few years ago, this guy would have been carrying our bags." Really now, are you quite sure poorly worded statements are a qualifier for determining who is a racist? And thereby labeling those that own them racists? I'll go along with it if you will. Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,659

16th December 2016, 11:04 AM	#393
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,659	Originally Posted by WilliamSeger Any attempt to analyze the Boy King as if he is a normal person is doomed to failure. He's a self-serving narcissist who can put on any mask he needs to manipulate the audience at hand, so you look a little silly claiming someone else is naive. He was never a "great guy." It's really a shame that his parents made the mistake of sending him to military school instead of a therapist; at that age, he probably could have been helped. Anyway, it's pretty obvious why he was a "Democrat" when he was wheeling and dealing in Manhattan, and why he switched to the Republican Party when he decided to run for president. The reason is certainly not flattering to Republicans. I don't believe for a second the people that voted for Trump thought they were buying an angel and a perfect person. That's exactly where the Clinton campaign went wrong. What was purchased was a savvy businessman to run the US with common sense and an attitude of America first. The character qualities you mention and that Clinton repeatedly attacked were of no concern for most voters. Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,659

16th December 2016, 11:21 AM	#394
TheL8Elvis Philosopher Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 8,276	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY You forgot the percentage of Black population committing crimes vs the percentage of White population committing crimes........ A higher percentage of one race will ensure a higher mortality rate during criminal/cop conflicts. Whites are more apt to be shot by police than Blacks. You really need to get away from the sources that parrot "Hands up Don't shoot" Fantasy does not mix well with fact. Chris B. You conveniently forgot to provide any facts. FAIL.
TheL8Elvis Philosopher Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 8,276	__________________ "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States...nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov

16th December 2016, 11:29 AM	#395
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 49,523	Originally Posted by The Don It's difficult to choose - why don't you decide ? It's not my claim, and not my criteria. I can't understand what you think by telling you what I think.