Are all Trump supporters racists? - Page 5

Belz... · 21st November 2016, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

The Democrat party is absolutely racist now and then. Don't you know how a plantation worked? Look Chicago, look at Detroit. Can you be proud of these Democrat run modern day plantations? I think it's outrageous. Chris B.

What are you babbling about? You say they are racists now, then provide the evidence and reasoning. Stop avoiding the meat of the issue.

varwoche · 21st November 2016, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

That's funny, simply because the accused were Black you assume he would not have called for the death penalty had they been White? Exactly who is the racist here?

I have a bit of relevant info for you. Those that support the death penalty, yours truly included, don't care what skin color the criminal has. When it's time to go, it's time to go and I'd pull the switch regardless of skin color.
Chris B.

One would hope, however, that Trump (and you) would care about their innocence.

The irrelevant BS you're foisting about 60 yr old Dem history is just that -- irrelevant BS in this day and age.

The small office that Trump ran placed the letter C for colored on the applications submitted by black people, which was used to reject the applicants as a matter of policy. But if we call him racist, we get a hissy fit from right wing apologists. Tough luck I say.

Myriad · 21st November 2016, 04:31 PM

Can I point to this thread in the future when addressing claims that all white Americans are racist? Because if that's the case, then all white Trump supporters being racist follows automatically (as does all white Clinton supporters being racist, all white Obama supporters being racist, and so forth) and there's nothing really to discuss.

Mumbles · 21st November 2016, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

The Democrat party is absolutely racist now and then. Don't you know how a plantation worked? Look Chicago, look at Detroit. Can you be proud of these Democrat run modern day plantations? I think it's outrageous. Chris B.

"The Democrat party". Uh huh.

This sort of silly stereotyping is really no better than racism, you know.

Roger Ramjets · 21st November 2016, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by The Don

Is there a point at which turning a blind eye to something stops someone being a good person ?

Sadly, yes. A person is only good when they do good.

A few days ago I was chatting to my brother and discovered that he is a Trump supporter. Tried (and failed) to rebut all the talking points he was regurgitating, and then I remembered that my brother is - a racist. I love my brother, but unfortunately in some respects he is not a good person.

Roger Ramjets · 21st November 2016, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by phiwum

That's not fair.

Turn it around. Would it be fair to say that Clinton supporters didn't care about her email scandal? I can tell you that I cared, but that the alternative, a Trump presidency, was too horrible to make that concern a deciding factor.

So you chose the lesser of two evils. But the question is why did you consider one to be sufficiently less evil than the other?

For most democrats the answer is perfectly rational and obvious - racism easily 'trumps' a manufactured scandal in the evil stakes.

But not everyone thinks that way. Most people who hate Hillary don't do so because of her email server or any of the other made-up scandals republicans have tried to stick to her. Their real reasons are far more basic. For many it is a vague feeling of distrust and fear based purely on emotions - emotions that are tainted with racism and sexism. For others it is more overt - she threatens their freedom - to be racist, sexist, and generally selfish and mean.

So when the majority of Hillary haters had to make a decision it wasn't between two evils, but between 'evil' and something they saw as neutral or even positive. The reason they don't seem to care about Trump's racism etc. is that they really don't care. It's not a big deal to them because they don't think it is actually evil.

phiwum · 21st November 2016, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Mumbles

"The Democrat party". Uh huh.

This sort of silly stereotyping is really no better than racism, you know.

To be perfectly fair, the topic subject is similar stereotyping.

ChrisBFRPKY · 21st November 2016, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by Mumbles

"The Democrat party". Uh huh.

This sort of silly stereotyping is really no better than racism, you know.

Kinda like saying all Trump supporters are racists huh..Chris B.

ChrisBFRPKY · 21st November 2016, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by Argumemnon

What are you babbling about? You say they are racists now, then provide the evidence and reasoning. Stop avoiding the meat of the issue.

Oh where to begin, there are so many prime examples. OK, let's look at Detroit. Democrat run and has been for a long time. What happened to Detroit? Motor City? I remember when it was called that. Auto factories everywhere. Jobs were plentiful. What happened? After NAFTA went into effect the auto makers left the Country. They went to Mexico. Why? Simple, free trade now meant they could make their products in Mexico, exploit cheap labor, then ship those same products back into the US and sell them to US consumers for a premium profit. They fired the Americans, and hired Mexicans. Now back to the unemployed auto workers left behind in Detroit. Most started out by using their unemployment insurance, until that ran out. Then they eventually signed up for food stamps and Government assistance. Any job they found was likely minimum wage and likely part time without benefits of any type. So now they get signed up for medicaid on the Governments tab. Since the only way they have left to make a living are their Government entitlements, certainly they vote for the Democrats, as they rally the low income communities pre-election. Instead of fixing the problem with the jobs, they create an oppressed group of people now reliant on Government assistance. These are the same people who were hard working Americans contributing to society and paying taxes when they were auto workers. That's how a plantation works. You oppress a group of people and become their only hope of living, their only reason they survive. If that's not racist I don't know what is. And Detroit is just one example of the impoverished class of Americans that were previously hard working and proud people that have been taken back in time to life on a plantation. Chris B.

Mumbles · 21st November 2016, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by phiwum

To be perfectly fair, the topic subject is similar stereotyping.

The topic title is, at least, a question (and the answer is "no", obviously).

ChrisBFRPKY · 21st November 2016, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by Mumbles

The topic title is, at least, a question (and the answer is "no", obviously).

Agree absolutely. Chris B.

Regnad Kcin · 21st November 2016, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by sunmaster14

Why would you lie in the OP? Why would the moderators let you get away with ~~slandering~~ libeling other members of the ISF? There are some questions we may never know the answer to.

Just a friendly correction.

sunmaster14 · 21st November 2016, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin

Just a friendly correction.

I didn't mean it in the legal sense. Perhaps I should have said that he got away with Rule 12'ing other members of the ISF.

Ziggurat · 21st November 2016, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by Mumbles

"The Democrat party". Uh huh.

This sort of silly stereotyping is really no better than racism, you know.

Originally Posted by uke2se

Which leaves us with the conclusion that Trump voters are either stupid or racist.

I'm confused. Is stereotyping a good thing or a bad thing now?

Regnad Kcin · 21st November 2016, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by sunmaster14

I didn't mean it in the legal sense. Perhaps I should have said that he got away with Rule 12'ing other members of the ISF.

I see.

thaiboxerken · 21st November 2016, 08:16 PM

Steve Bannon's neo-nazi alt-right: http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/21/politi...ump/index.html

Hail Trump!

Foolmewunz · 21st November 2016, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by sunmaster14

Lies that have been pointed out and recognized by others don't annoy me. I get annoyed when people deny those lies, however.

Says the author of the sunmaster14 system of re-scoring Trumps lies in order to upgrade various statements from Pants on Fire to Mostly False. "Good evening. It sure is great to be here in.... uh, York. I was just speaking to my old friend and your most famous son, Alvin York. (deplorables cheer for a pacifist who learnt him to kill) Thank you, thank you. And Alvin told me to keep up the good fight."

Every Other Fact Checker: Alvin York is long dead, so he couldn't have just spoken to him nor at any time in the last half-century. York is the name of the town, and Sgt. Alvin York isn't from there; he's from Tennessee.
Score: Pants on Fire.

Sunmaster14 Protek-Conserv Fact Checker: "Well, you can't say it wasn't a GOOD evening. That's subjective so true. And he was actually in York, and Alvin York was certainly famous. By volume, the words spoken are True or Mostly True with one insignificant teeny little part that's factually incorrect."
Score: Mostly True.

Aridas · 21st November 2016, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

That's the funny thing. The Democrats go overboard to point a finger at Republicans for such things when the Democrat party is the root of racism and bigotry. Isn't that odd. There's a name for such things I believe it's called "projection" Chris B.

Originally Posted by phiwum

Sorry? What do you mean by this?

Root of racism and bigotry? Hardly. In the past, they were the party that was far more strongly associated with racism and bigotry, yes, though. These days, they are not, however. The Republican Party, on the other hand, has been trending a path in somewhat the opposite direction, though, since they decided to increasingly court Christian supremacy groups and anti-science groups.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Do you even know what NAFTA is and how it has affected working class Americans? Do you not know factory workers that have lost jobs because their company closed down and moved to another Country?

Hmm? Did you need a reminder that more Republicans supported NAFTA than Democrats? Bad call, eh?

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

The Republican party Ideals are exactly the same today as they were when Lincoln ran.

Is that represented properly by putting explicit opposition to teaching critical thinking into their party platform, like Texas did? Is that represented properly by their attempts to get Creationism taught in science classrooms as if it were even arguably still in line with science, as some versions were in Lincoln's day?

Aridas · 21st November 2016, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

So you chose the lesser of two evils. But the question is why did you consider one to be sufficiently less evil than the other?

For most democrats the answer is perfectly rational and obvious - racism easily 'trumps' a manufactured scandal in the evil stakes.

As a Democrat, I may not be most, then, given that the scandal that you referenced wasn't entirely manufactured. The actual actions that were taken on Hillary's side are rather concerning, after all, whether or not there was anything actually incriminating in the e-mails. Also, racism was a minor issue when it came to why I didn't want Trump more than I didn't want Hillary. Rather, things like how he was constantly claiming that the various elections were rigged, but only until he won, spurred more concern from me. His demagoguery was notably more of a concern for me. His unconstitutional campaign promises were much more of a concern to me. There were a number of things that I took issue with, but indications of racism and sexism barely registered compared to the actually important concerns.

thaiboxerken · 21st November 2016, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by Aridas

Is that represented properly by putting explicit opposition to teaching critical thinking into their party platform, like Texas did? Is that represented properly by their attempts to get Creationism taught in science classrooms as if it were even arguably still in line with science, as some versions were in Lincoln's day?

Or their embrace of the alt-right (neo-nazi) movement, and their opposition to the voting rights act?

portlandatheist · 21st November 2016, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

The Liberal Left needs a few new go-to words to describe Republicans other than "racist" "bigot" etc.
...

How about "suckers" or "chumps" or "baboozled" or "dupes"?
Get ready to bend over working class Americans.

ChristianProgressive · 21st November 2016, 11:42 PM

On the one hand you have these Trump supporters:

https://www.thenation.com/article/wh...sts-they-dont/

On the other, you have these:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...ch-npi/508379/

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...ington-dc.html

Travis · 22nd November 2016, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by phiwum

That's not fair.

Turn it around. Would it be fair to say that Clinton supporters didn't care about her email scandal? I can tell you that I cared, but that the alternative, a Trump presidency, was too horrible to make that concern a deciding factor.

It would be fair to say that I sure didn't care about it at all.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Do you even know what NAFTA is and how it has affected working class Americans? Do you not know factory workers that have lost jobs because their company closed down and moved to another Country?

Which has what to do with NAFTA? Those jobs moved because people in other country can do the same job for far less. NAFTA did not create that situation simple supply and demand did.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Oh where to begin, there are so many prime examples. OK, let's look at Detroit. Democrat run and has been for a long time. What happened to Detroit? Motor City? I remember when it was called that. Auto factories everywhere. Jobs were plentiful. What happened? After NAFTA went into effect the auto makers left the Country. They went to Mexico. Why? Simple, free trade now meant they could make their products in Mexico, exploit cheap labor, then ship those same products back into the US and sell them to US consumers for a premium profit. They fired the Americans, and hired Mexicans.

Again, NAFTA had nothing to do with this. Free trade existed before NAFTA and will exist after. If Mexico had been an industrialized nation in the 50's you can bet that GM and Ford would have relocated there sooner.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Now back to the unemployed auto workers left behind in Detroit. Most started out by using their unemployment insurance, until that ran out. Then they eventually signed up for food stamps and Government assistance. Any job they found was likely minimum wage and likely part time without benefits of any type. So now they get signed up for medicaid on the Governments tab. Since the only way they have left to make a living are their Government entitlements, certainly they vote for the Democrats, as they rally the low income communities pre-election. Instead of fixing the problem with the jobs, they create an oppressed group of people now reliant on Government assistance.

Of course this overlooks that Liberals have proposed and tried to implement other solutions. Like retraining programs and making universities more affordable. Things that the Republicans have opposed at every turn.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

These are the same people who were hard working Americans contributing to society and paying taxes when they were auto workers. That's how a plantation works. You oppress a group of people and become their only hope of living, their only reason they survive.

Except that they are not being oppressed. They are in a very unfortunate situation. One with few answers. The government cannot directly create jobs there and until the population gains new skills they will continue to not be very employable in a global economy.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

If that's not racist I don't know what is.

Well alrighty. I'll say that it isn't racist. Detroit was an economic time bomb. Too large a city built around one industry with too many workers that were all under skilled for other jobs. It was bound to be a disaster from its inception.

Mumbles · 22nd November 2016, 01:19 AM

Originally Posted by Travis

It would be fair to say that I sure didn't care about it at all.

I'd say that I saw little to nothing scandalous in the first place, much like the other Clinton "scandals".

The exception was the Lewinski thing - cheating on your wife with an intern is definitely not right.

The Don · 22nd November 2016, 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by Mumbles

I'd say that I saw little to nothing scandalous in the first place, much like the other Clinton "scandals".

The exception was the Lewinski thing - cheating on your wife with an intern is definitely not right.

Fortunately Trump has never been tainted with any suggestion of sexual impropriety

phiwum · 22nd November 2016, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by Travis

It would be fair to say that I sure didn't care about it at all.

That doesn't surprise me at all. You are highly partisan and so it's not surprising that you don't care about scandals coming from your team.

Archie Gemmill Goal · 22nd November 2016, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Oh where to begin, there are so many prime examples. OK, let's look at Detroit. Democrat run and has been for a long time. What happened to Detroit? Motor City? I remember when it was called that. Auto factories everywhere. Jobs were plentiful. What happened?

What happened indeed?

US automotive manufacturing is doing pretty well and the top selling models are all pretty much made in the US even though they have foreign sounding names.

Of course it's not necessarily in Detroit anymore. It's Kentucky and Ohio and other places.

And of course modern car plants are just much less labour intensive than the old ones were. So to make the same number of vehicles just takes fewer people.

NAFTA isn't going to change that significantly

The Don · 22nd November 2016, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal

And of course modern car plants are just much less labour intensive than the old ones were. So to make the same number of vehicles just takes fewer people.

^ This

Even if Trump cuts off America's nose to spite its face and increases tariffs, reduces imports and forces companies to make things in the US (and damn the cost), it still won't require anything like the number of people it used to.

Heck, given that they'll have to use expensive US labour instead of cheap foreign labour, there's even greater incentive to automate, not least so that they can remain somewhat competitive on the global stage.

uke2se · 22nd November 2016, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by phiwum

That doesn't surprise me at all. You are highly partisan and so it's not surprising that you don't care about scandals coming from your team.

It's more likely he doesn't care about them because he can see, as can most of us, that the 'scandals' were obviously manufactured.

Belz... · 22nd November 2016, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Instead of fixing the problem with the jobs, they create an oppressed group of people now reliant on Government assistance. These are the same people who were hard working Americans contributing to society and paying taxes when they were auto workers. That's how a plantation works. You oppress a group of people and become their only hope of living, their only reason they survive. If that's not racist I don't know what is.

Yes, you clearly don't know what "racist" means.

NoahFence · 22nd November 2016, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Kinda like saying all Trump supporters are racists huh..Chris B.

Just so you know, when you say people say that "all Trump supporters are racist" you're terribly misinformed.

I'm thinking though, that you don't care and much like well, ALL Trump supporters, you fail to see grey area.

phiwum · 22nd November 2016, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by uke2se

It's more likely he doesn't care about them because he can see, as can most of us, that the 'scandals' were obviously manufactured.

With due respect, the fact that Hillary violated rules by having her own email server, very likely to avoid FOIA requests, is troublesome for anyone who prefers transparency. That she seemed to prevaricate about the presence of classified information is also troublesome.

I think she would've been a decent president. I also think that her (more or less understandable) tendency for privacy was troubling, especially when it leads to apparent violations of rules. We might wonder whether transparency is appropriate for a Secretary of State, but that's another matter.

The email thing bothered me, not because a private server can't be secure or because the gov't does security better, but because it seemed intended to avoid transparency rules.

Skeptical Greg · 22nd November 2016, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by uke2se

It's more likely he doesn't care about them because he can see, as can most of us, that the 'scandals' were obviously manufactured.

Right... All the stuff about her husband, and her ignoring it, was all made up..

The Don · 22nd November 2016, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg

Right... All the stuff about her husband, and her ignoring it, was all made up..

It's a strange world when having a husband who is a philanderer and alleged sexual predator is disqualifying but being a philanderer and proudly boasting about sexual assualts oneself is not

Mumbles · 22nd November 2016, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

Fortunately Trump has never been tainted with any suggestion of sexual impropriety

Well, Trump was and is manifestly unqualified, so I'm not even putting him up for comparison.

And just to be clear, while Bill Clinton counted as "a Clinton scandal", it was clearly *his* scandal, not hers.

Darat · 22nd November 2016, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by uke2se

What is this I don't even...

It's called an utter travesty of an argument.

Darat · 22nd November 2016, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Argumemnon

What are you babbling about? You say they are racists now, then provide the evidence and reasoning. Stop avoiding the meat of the issue.

It's called "deflection" which is a dishonest way to try and avoid having to make an argument supporting their opinion.

applecorped · 22nd November 2016, 11:24 AM

Time well spent

sunmaster14 · 22nd November 2016, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

It's a strange world when having a husband who is a philanderer and alleged sexual predator is disqualifying but being a philanderer and proudly boasting about sexual assualts oneself is not

Whoever said it was disqualifying? What disqualifies Hillary is that she didn't win 270 electoral votes. There were many factors going into that, although I suspect the main one was that most people wanted a change.

Distracted1 · 22nd November 2016, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by sunmaster14

Whoever said it was disqualifying? What disqualifies Hillary is that she didn't win 270 electoral votes. There were many factors going into that, although I suspect the main one was that most people wanted a change.

Most people?

21st November 2016, 04:21 PM	#162
varwoche Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 15,405	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY That's funny, simply because the accused were Black you assume he would not have called for the death penalty had they been White? Exactly who is the racist here? I have a bit of relevant info for you. Those that support the death penalty, yours truly included, don't care what skin color the criminal has. When it's time to go, it's time to go and I'd pull the switch regardless of skin color. Chris B. One would hope, however, that Trump (and you) would care about their innocence. The irrelevant BS you're foisting about 60 yr old Dem history is just that -- irrelevant BS in this day and age. The small office that Trump ran placed the letter C for colored on the applications submitted by black people, which was used to reject the applicants as a matter of policy. But if we call him racist, we get a hissy fit from right wing apologists. Tough luck I say.
	__________________ To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot. My authority is total - Trump

21st November 2016, 04:31 PM	#163
Myriad The Clarity Is Devastating Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Betwixt Posts: 17,450	Can I point to this thread in the future when addressing claims that all white Americans are racist? Because if that's the case, then all white Trump supporters being racist follows automatically (as does all white Clinton supporters being racist, all white Obama supporters being racist, and so forth) and there's nothing really to discuss.
	__________________ A zømbie once bit my sister...

21st November 2016, 04:44 PM	#164
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,396	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY The Democrat party is absolutely racist now and then. Don't you know how a plantation worked? Look Chicago, look at Detroit. Can you be proud of these Democrat run modern day plantations? I think it's outrageous. Chris B. "The Democrat party". Uh huh. This sort of silly stereotyping is really no better than racism, you know.
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,396

21st November 2016, 04:46 PM	#165
Roger Ramjets Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,328	Originally Posted by The Don Is there a point at which turning a blind eye to something stops someone being a good person ? Sadly, yes. A person is only good when they do good. A few days ago I was chatting to my brother and discovered that he is a Trump supporter. Tried (and failed) to rebut all the talking points he was regurgitating, and then I remembered that my brother is - a racist. I love my brother, but unfortunately in some respects he is not a good person.
	__________________ We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.

21st November 2016, 05:34 PM	#166
Roger Ramjets Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,328	Originally Posted by phiwum That's not fair. Turn it around. Would it be fair to say that Clinton supporters didn't care about her email scandal? I can tell you that I cared, but that the alternative, a Trump presidency, was too horrible to make that concern a deciding factor. So you chose the lesser of two evils. But the question is why did you consider one to be sufficiently less evil than the other? For most democrats the answer is perfectly rational and obvious - racism easily 'trumps' a manufactured scandal in the evil stakes. But not everyone thinks that way. Most people who hate Hillary don't do so because of her email server or any of the other made-up scandals republicans have tried to stick to her. Their real reasons are far more basic. For many it is a vague feeling of distrust and fear based purely on emotions - emotions that are tainted with racism and sexism. For others it is more overt - she threatens their freedom - to be racist, sexist, and generally selfish and mean. So when the majority of Hillary haters had to make a decision it wasn't between two evils, but between 'evil' and something they saw as neutral or even positive. The reason they don't seem to care about Trump's racism etc. is that they really don't care. It's not a big deal to them because they don't think it is actually evil.
	__________________ We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good. Last edited by Roger Ramjets; 21st November 2016 at 05:35 PM.

21st November 2016, 03:15 PM	#161
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 91,292	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY The Democrat party is absolutely racist now and then. Don't you know how a plantation worked? Look Chicago, look at Detroit. Can you be proud of these Democrat run modern day plantations? I think it's outrageous. Chris B. What are you babbling about? You say they are racists now, then provide the evidence and reasoning. Stop avoiding the meat of the issue.

21st November 2016, 05:39 PM	#167
phiwum Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 12,718	Originally Posted by Mumbles "The Democrat party". Uh huh. This sort of silly stereotyping is really no better than racism, you know. To be perfectly fair, the topic subject is similar stereotyping.

21st November 2016, 05:52 PM	#168
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,659	Originally Posted by Mumbles "The Democrat party". Uh huh. This sort of silly stereotyping is really no better than racism, you know. Kinda like saying all Trump supporters are racists huh..Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,659

21st November 2016, 06:05 PM	#169
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,659	Originally Posted by Argumemnon What are you babbling about? You say they are racists now, then provide the evidence and reasoning. Stop avoiding the meat of the issue. Oh where to begin, there are so many prime examples. OK, let's look at Detroit. Democrat run and has been for a long time. What happened to Detroit? Motor City? I remember when it was called that. Auto factories everywhere. Jobs were plentiful. What happened? After NAFTA went into effect the auto makers left the Country. They went to Mexico. Why? Simple, free trade now meant they could make their products in Mexico, exploit cheap labor, then ship those same products back into the US and sell them to US consumers for a premium profit. They fired the Americans, and hired Mexicans. Now back to the unemployed auto workers left behind in Detroit. Most started out by using their unemployment insurance, until that ran out. Then they eventually signed up for food stamps and Government assistance. Any job they found was likely minimum wage and likely part time without benefits of any type. So now they get signed up for medicaid on the Governments tab. Since the only way they have left to make a living are their Government entitlements, certainly they vote for the Democrats, as they rally the low income communities pre-election. Instead of fixing the problem with the jobs, they create an oppressed group of people now reliant on Government assistance. These are the same people who were hard working Americans contributing to society and paying taxes when they were auto workers. That's how a plantation works. You oppress a group of people and become their only hope of living, their only reason they survive. If that's not racist I don't know what is. And Detroit is just one example of the impoverished class of Americans that were previously hard working and proud people that have been taken back in time to life on a plantation. Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,659	Last edited by ChrisBFRPKY; 21st November 2016 at 06:15 PM. Reason: finished paragraph

21st November 2016, 06:08 PM	#170
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,396	Originally Posted by phiwum To be perfectly fair, the topic subject is similar stereotyping. The topic title is, at least, a question (and the answer is "no", obviously).
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,396

21st November 2016, 06:19 PM	#171
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,659	Originally Posted by Mumbles The topic title is, at least, a question (and the answer is "no", obviously). Agree absolutely. Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,659

21st November 2016, 07:44 PM	#172
Regnad Kcin Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: New York Posts: 10,238	Originally Posted by sunmaster14 Why would you lie in the OP? Why would the moderators let you get away with ~~slandering~~ libeling other members of the ISF? There are some questions we may never know the answer to. Just a friendly correction.
	__________________ My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie.

21st November 2016, 07:49 PM	#173
sunmaster14 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 10,017	Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin Just a friendly correction. I didn't mean it in the legal sense. Perhaps I should have said that he got away with Rule 12'ing other members of the ISF.

21st November 2016, 07:56 PM	#174
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 48,282	Originally Posted by Mumbles "The Democrat party". Uh huh. This sort of silly stereotyping is really no better than racism, you know. Originally Posted by uke2se Which leaves us with the conclusion that Trump voters are either stupid or racist. I'm confused. Is stereotyping a good thing or a bad thing now?
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

21st November 2016, 07:59 PM	#175
Regnad Kcin Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: New York Posts: 10,238	Originally Posted by sunmaster14 I didn't mean it in the legal sense. Perhaps I should have said that he got away with Rule 12'ing other members of the ISF. I see.
	__________________ My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie.

21st November 2016, 08:16 PM	#176
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 31,706	Steve Bannon's neo-nazi alt-right: http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/21/politi...ump/index.html Hail Trump!
	__________________ 1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.

21st November 2016, 08:39 PM	#177
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader TLA Dictator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 41,468	Originally Posted by sunmaster14 Lies that have been pointed out and recognized by others don't annoy me. I get annoyed when people deny those lies, however. Says the author of the sunmaster14 system of re-scoring Trumps lies in order to upgrade various statements from Pants on Fire to Mostly False. "Good evening. It sure is great to be here in.... uh, York. I was just speaking to my old friend and your most famous son, Alvin York. (deplorables cheer for a pacifist who learnt him to kill) Thank you, thank you. And Alvin told me to keep up the good fight." Every Other Fact Checker: Alvin York is long dead, so he couldn't have just spoken to him nor at any time in the last half-century. York is the name of the town, and Sgt. Alvin York isn't from there; he's from Tennessee. Score: Pants on Fire. Sunmaster14 Protek-Conserv Fact Checker: "Well, you can't say it wasn't a GOOD evening. That's subjective so true. And he was actually in York, and Alvin York was certainly famous. By volume, the words spoken are True or Mostly True with one insignificant teeny little part that's factually incorrect." Score: Mostly True.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable. Last edited by Foolmewunz; 21st November 2016 at 08:45 PM.

21st November 2016, 10:06 PM	#178
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 7,441	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY That's the funny thing. The Democrats go overboard to point a finger at Republicans for such things when the Democrat party is the root of racism and bigotry. Isn't that odd. There's a name for such things I believe it's called "projection" Chris B. Originally Posted by phiwum Sorry? What do you mean by this? Root of racism and bigotry? Hardly. In the past, they were the party that was far more strongly associated with racism and bigotry, yes, though. These days, they are not, however. The Republican Party, on the other hand, has been trending a path in somewhat the opposite direction, though, since they decided to increasingly court Christian supremacy groups and anti-science groups. Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Do you even know what NAFTA is and how it has affected working class Americans? Do you not know factory workers that have lost jobs because their company closed down and moved to another Country? Hmm? Did you need a reminder that more Republicans supported NAFTA than Democrats? Bad call, eh? Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY The Republican party Ideals are exactly the same today as they were when Lincoln ran. Is that represented properly by putting explicit opposition to teaching critical thinking into their party platform, like Texas did? Is that represented properly by their attempts to get Creationism taught in science classrooms as if it were even arguably still in line with science, as some versions were in Lincoln's day?
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon.

21st November 2016, 10:33 PM	#179
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 7,441	Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets So you chose the lesser of two evils. But the question is why did you consider one to be sufficiently less evil than the other? For most democrats the answer is perfectly rational and obvious - racism easily 'trumps' a manufactured scandal in the evil stakes. As a Democrat, I may not be most, then, given that the scandal that you referenced wasn't entirely manufactured. The actual actions that were taken on Hillary's side are rather concerning, after all, whether or not there was anything actually incriminating in the e-mails. Also, racism was a minor issue when it came to why I didn't want Trump more than I didn't want Hillary. Rather, things like how he was constantly claiming that the various elections were rigged, but only until he won, spurred more concern from me. His demagoguery was notably more of a concern for me. His unconstitutional campaign promises were much more of a concern to me. There were a number of things that I took issue with, but indications of racism and sexism barely registered compared to the actually important concerns.
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon. Last edited by Aridas; 21st November 2016 at 10:38 PM.

21st November 2016, 10:34 PM	#180
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 31,706	Originally Posted by Aridas Is that represented properly by putting explicit opposition to teaching critical thinking into their party platform, like Texas did? Is that represented properly by their attempts to get Creationism taught in science classrooms as if it were even arguably still in line with science, as some versions were in Lincoln's day? Or their embrace of the alt-right (neo-nazi) movement, and their opposition to the voting rights act?
	__________________ 1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.

21st November 2016, 10:47 PM	#181
portlandatheist Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,608	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY The Liberal Left needs a few new go-to words to describe Republicans other than "racist" "bigot" etc. ... How about "suckers" or "chumps" or "baboozled" or "dupes"? Get ready to bend over working class Americans.

21st November 2016, 11:42 PM	#182
ChristianProgressive Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 2,828	On the one hand you have these Trump supporters: https://www.thenation.com/article/wh...sts-they-dont/ On the other, you have these: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...ch-npi/508379/ http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...ington-dc.html

22nd November 2016, 12:38 AM	#183
Travis Misanthrope of the Mountains Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 24,097	Originally Posted by phiwum That's not fair. Turn it around. Would it be fair to say that Clinton supporters didn't care about her email scandal? I can tell you that I cared, but that the alternative, a Trump presidency, was too horrible to make that concern a deciding factor. It would be fair to say that I sure didn't care about it at all. Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Do you even know what NAFTA is and how it has affected working class Americans? Do you not know factory workers that have lost jobs because their company closed down and moved to another Country? Which has what to do with NAFTA? Those jobs moved because people in other country can do the same job for far less. NAFTA did not create that situation simple supply and demand did. Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Oh where to begin, there are so many prime examples. OK, let's look at Detroit. Democrat run and has been for a long time. What happened to Detroit? Motor City? I remember when it was called that. Auto factories everywhere. Jobs were plentiful. What happened? After NAFTA went into effect the auto makers left the Country. They went to Mexico. Why? Simple, free trade now meant they could make their products in Mexico, exploit cheap labor, then ship those same products back into the US and sell them to US consumers for a premium profit. They fired the Americans, and hired Mexicans. Again, NAFTA had nothing to do with this. Free trade existed before NAFTA and will exist after. If Mexico had been an industrialized nation in the 50's you can bet that GM and Ford would have relocated there sooner. Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Now back to the unemployed auto workers left behind in Detroit. Most started out by using their unemployment insurance, until that ran out. Then they eventually signed up for food stamps and Government assistance. Any job they found was likely minimum wage and likely part time without benefits of any type. So now they get signed up for medicaid on the Governments tab. Since the only way they have left to make a living are their Government entitlements, certainly they vote for the Democrats, as they rally the low income communities pre-election. Instead of fixing the problem with the jobs, they create an oppressed group of people now reliant on Government assistance. Of course this overlooks that Liberals have proposed and tried to implement other solutions. Like retraining programs and making universities more affordable. Things that the Republicans have opposed at every turn. Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY These are the same people who were hard working Americans contributing to society and paying taxes when they were auto workers. That's how a plantation works. You oppress a group of people and become their only hope of living, their only reason they survive. Except that they are not being oppressed. They are in a very unfortunate situation. One with few answers. The government cannot directly create jobs there and until the population gains new skills they will continue to not be very employable in a global economy. Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY If that's not racist I don't know what is. Well alrighty. I'll say that it isn't racist. Detroit was an economic time bomb. Too large a city built around one industry with too many workers that were all under skilled for other jobs. It was bound to be a disaster from its inception.
	__________________ "Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com Zingiber Officinale Humor blog

22nd November 2016, 01:19 AM	#184
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,396	Originally Posted by Travis It would be fair to say that I sure didn't care about it at all. I'd say that I saw little to nothing scandalous in the first place, much like the other Clinton "scandals". The exception was the Lewinski thing - cheating on your wife with an intern is definitely not right.
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,396

22nd November 2016, 01:25 AM	#185
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,328	Originally Posted by Mumbles I'd say that I saw little to nothing scandalous in the first place, much like the other Clinton "scandals". The exception was the Lewinski thing - cheating on your wife with an intern is definitely not right. Fortunately Trump has never been tainted with any suggestion of sexual impropriety

22nd November 2016, 06:28 AM	#186
phiwum Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 12,718	Originally Posted by Travis It would be fair to say that I sure didn't care about it at all. That doesn't surprise me at all. You are highly partisan and so it's not surprising that you don't care about scandals coming from your team.

22nd November 2016, 07:32 AM	#187
Archie Gemmill Goal Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 7,770	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Oh where to begin, there are so many prime examples. OK, let's look at Detroit. Democrat run and has been for a long time. What happened to Detroit? Motor City? I remember when it was called that. Auto factories everywhere. Jobs were plentiful. What happened? What happened indeed? US automotive manufacturing is doing pretty well and the top selling models are all pretty much made in the US even though they have foreign sounding names. Of course it's not necessarily in Detroit anymore. It's Kentucky and Ohio and other places. And of course modern car plants are just much less labour intensive than the old ones were. So to make the same number of vehicles just takes fewer people. NAFTA isn't going to change that significantly
	__________________ "I love sex and drugs and sausage rolls But nothing compares to Archie Gemmill's goal"

22nd November 2016, 07:40 AM	#188
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,328	Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal And of course modern car plants are just much less labour intensive than the old ones were. So to make the same number of vehicles just takes fewer people. ^ This Even if Trump cuts off America's nose to spite its face and increases tariffs, reduces imports and forces companies to make things in the US (and damn the cost), it still won't require anything like the number of people it used to. Heck, given that they'll have to use expensive US labour instead of cheap foreign labour, there's even greater incentive to automate, not least so that they can remain somewhat competitive on the global stage.

22nd November 2016, 07:40 AM	#189
uke2se Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 14,180	Originally Posted by phiwum That doesn't surprise me at all. You are highly partisan and so it's not surprising that you don't care about scandals coming from your team. It's more likely he doesn't care about them because he can see, as can most of us, that the 'scandals' were obviously manufactured.
	__________________ Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1

22nd November 2016, 08:04 AM	#190
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 91,292	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Instead of fixing the problem with the jobs, they create an oppressed group of people now reliant on Government assistance. These are the same people who were hard working Americans contributing to society and paying taxes when they were auto workers. That's how a plantation works. You oppress a group of people and become their only hope of living, their only reason they survive. If that's not racist I don't know what is. Yes, you clearly don't know what "racist" means.

22nd November 2016, 08:07 AM	#191
NoahFence Banned Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Patriot Nation Posts: 22,131	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Kinda like saying all Trump supporters are racists huh..Chris B. Just so you know, when you say people say that "all Trump supporters are racist" you're terribly misinformed. I'm thinking though, that you don't care and much like well, ALL Trump supporters, you fail to see grey area.

22nd November 2016, 08:54 AM	#192
phiwum Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 12,718	Originally Posted by uke2se It's more likely he doesn't care about them because he can see, as can most of us, that the 'scandals' were obviously manufactured. With due respect, the fact that Hillary violated rules by having her own email server, very likely to avoid FOIA requests, is troublesome for anyone who prefers transparency. That she seemed to prevaricate about the presence of classified information is also troublesome. I think she would've been a decent president. I also think that her (more or less understandable) tendency for privacy was troubling, especially when it leads to apparent violations of rules. We might wonder whether transparency is appropriate for a Secretary of State, but that's another matter. The email thing bothered me, not because a private server can't be secure or because the gov't does security better, but because it seemed intended to avoid transparency rules.

22nd November 2016, 10:16 AM	#193
Skeptical Greg Agave Wine Connoisseur Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Just past ' Resume Speed ' . Posts: 16,917	Originally Posted by uke2se It's more likely he doesn't care about them because he can see, as can most of us, that the 'scandals' were obviously manufactured. Right... All the stuff about her husband, and her ignoring it, was all made up..
	__________________ " The main problem I have with the idea of heaven, is the thought of spending eternity with most of the people who claim to be going there. "

22nd November 2016, 11:05 AM	#194
The Don Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 31,328	Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg Right... All the stuff about her husband, and her ignoring it, was all made up.. It's a strange world when having a husband who is a philanderer and alleged sexual predator is disqualifying but being a philanderer and proudly boasting about sexual assualts oneself is not

22nd November 2016, 11:15 AM	#195
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,396	Originally Posted by The Don Fortunately Trump has never been tainted with any suggestion of sexual impropriety Well, Trump was and is manifestly unqualified, so I'm not even putting him up for comparison. And just to be clear, while Bill Clinton counted as "a Clinton scandal", it was clearly his scandal, not hers.
Mumbles Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,396