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Old 22nd May 2017, 11:30 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Justifying?

He's done quite well so far. We look at the lefts temper tantrums as a huge road block, we're giving him time to get it going. We're used to the left throwing themselves to the ground with these tactics, Trump wasn't. If he doesn't get these major legislative issues accomplished, he will have hell to pay.

So leftist know what they have to do, more tantrums, but they need to be spaectacular!
Trump is nothing but a worthless, disgusting, lying piece of crap.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 11:33 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
You misspelled " **** " in the quotation marked part of sentence #2.
I didn't. This is basically exactly a quote from him, which sounded silly, but that's why I included it.

It is your projection that there's some massive racism going on here instead of some over-amplified one-off behaviors. This fits well with your worldview of what's going on, which is, of course, why a thread like this is a good one.

Instead of approaching it, yet again, from a "what's wrong with Kansas?" point of view, well...

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I AGREE


4:15 is the relevant part. This hasn't changed. You are dancing around on irrelevancies. 6:20 is also fascinating.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 11:36 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Newtons Bit View Post
Only if he was receiving.
Many of the big brash guys are into receiving -either sex (not all by a long shot, but...). Note: that is not a joke or a misstatement. It is based on a variety of studies of sado/masochism and alpha type males in stress occupations.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 11:39 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Many of the big brash guys are into receiving -either sex (not all by a long shot, but...). Note: that is not a joke or a misstatement. It is based on a variety of studies of sado/masochism and alpha type males in stress occupations.
But they aren't alpha types - they just want to be.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 11:44 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
But they aren't alpha types - they just want to be.
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I AGREE
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Old 22nd May 2017, 12:01 PM   #46
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I think the lowest his approval rating has been among Republicans is something like 75%, so that seems to be about what he can count on with his normal run of failures and personal defects. For it to go much below that, I think you'd have to have a major national security failure, an obvious economic collapse or a corruption scandal bigger and nastier than anything we've yet seen. These things would also have to happen in such a way that Trump would be personally blamed for them by his supporters and I think that's a tall order.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 12:15 PM   #47
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What this question boils down to is what percentage of Trump voters are hardcore Trump supporters,and how many voted for what they though was the lesser of two evils.
What concerns me is how many people here buy into the "All Trump Voters Are Evil Idiots" meme, which IMHO is simplistic and dangerous.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 12:21 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
No one has to make up fake news about Trump. The real things that Trump has done to himself is enough for those who don't ignore reality like the hardcore Trump supporters.
But haven't you heard trump all those stories are fake news.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 12:24 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
What this question boils down to is what percentage of Trump voters are hardcore Trump supporters,and how many voted for what they though was the lesser of two evils.
What concerns me is how many people here buy into the "All Trump Voters Are Evil Idiots" meme, which IMHO is simplistic and dangerous.
And when they actually think that he is a bad president they might count for something. But they like what they see. They seem to be for having a russian agent in charge of our national security for example. And being worried about a little perjury is soooo 1997.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 12:31 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
What this question boils down to is what percentage of Trump voters are hardcore Trump supporters,and how many voted for what they though was the lesser of two evils.
What concerns me is how many people here buy into the "All Trump Voters Are Evil Idiots" meme, which IMHO is simplistic and dangerous.
Even Trump supports in my circle of friends, who started out as "lesser of two evils" voters, have drunk so much Kool-Aid that now they're just dismissing any negative aspects of his presidency, no matter how well-confirmed, as the products of biased media.

"Evil idiots" is a bit strong, but how do you suggest piercing such a strongly reinforced bubble?
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Old 22nd May 2017, 12:37 PM   #51
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Trump hardcore supporters have put there fingers in their ears and are saying "La-la-la-la-la, I can't hear you." They are willfully ignoring anything negative about Trump.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 12:42 PM   #52
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As long as Fox doesn't report it or denies it ever happened , it will never shake the true believers.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 12:46 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I don't think that Trump can do anything himself but if you ever got any quality candidates running for POTUS then I suspect that Trump supporters would abandon him faster than rats leaving a sinking ship.
I'd say his winning the nomination last year disproves that. Not that those were what I'd call "quality" candidates, but they were nearly all better than Trump.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 01:06 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I'd say his winning the nomination last year disproves that. Not that those were what I'd call "quality" candidates, but they were nearly all better than Trump.
That is true. It's not about quality for a lot of his base, its about telling the powers that be to screw themselves. Then the republicans that didn't vote for him in the primary just voted for him because he was running as a republican. Party affiliation is as much about tribal affiliation as any kind of ideological choice folks have made. Trump ran by openly opposing a number of long standing GOP platforms, free trade, free market, for maternity leave....

We may not agree with the policies of most of the GOP candidates last year but atleast most of them had given a few minutes of thought to issues that affect the US. Trump was willfully and gleefully ignorant.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 01:08 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
That is true. It's not about quality for a lot of his base, its about telling the powers that be to screw themselves. Then the republicans that didn't vote for him in the primary just voted for him because he was running as a republican. Party affiliation is as much about tribal affiliation as any kind of ideological choice folks have made. Trump ran by openly opposing a number of long standing GOP platforms, free trade, free market, for maternity leave....
But if that was the case I would expect more buyers remorse
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Old 22nd May 2017, 01:08 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
4:15 is the relevant part. This hasn't changed. You are dancing around on irrelevancies. 6:20 is also fascinating.
The problem is, that makes absolutely no sense. Trump isn't going to do anything for lower or middle class. In many cases, he's actively working against them.

Maybe that is what will eventually cause Trump to lose supporters, when more and more of the middle class here in the midwest becomes the lower class that can't afford insurance because of their pre-existing conditions and those coal jobs don't come roaring back.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 02:07 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
..or at least trust his words more than that of the press.
Funny thing is his words are what the press reports on! There's no slant.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 02:10 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
Will Trump voters who have become disillusioned with him all identify as former Trump voters when polled?
No. They will still be republicans, so they will be supporters of whichever Republican is offered to them.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 02:16 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
4:15 is the relevant part. This hasn't changed. You are dancing around on irrelevancies. 6:20 is also fascinating.
As someone from Middle America, I'm not cowed by that idiotic lecturing.

Seriously, though, can you name one thing Trump has done or proposed since taking over that will materially aid Middle America or the middle class in any way?
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Old 22nd May 2017, 02:20 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Funny thing is his words are what the press reports on! There's no slant.
Not true. Trump says a lot more words than the press reports, so they what they are reporting is slanted. And this will always be true until the press gives equal weight to every word he says (or none, which might be preferable...).

OTOH, Trump also self-reports via Twitter. Those tweets are laid bare for all to read - no slant, no spin! The only person slanting that record is Trump himself.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 02:32 PM   #61
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Mention banning guns.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 02:34 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Switching parties.
That's it! The way for Trump to lose all his supporters is join the Democratic Party. Then select liberal judges, improve Obamacare, raise taxes on the rich and help immigrants become legal citizens. Finally, he could admit to colluding with the Russians and declare Hillary the true winner.

If he did that his current support would instantly evaporate. But so long as he remains a Republican he will still get their broad support, because that is the only thing that really matters to them.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 02:36 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Azrael 5 View Post
Mention banning guns.
He could just mention sensible gun control and that would do it.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 02:51 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
That's it! The way for Trump to lose all his supporters is join the Democratic Party. Then select liberal judges, improve Obamacare, raise taxes on the rich and help immigrants become legal citizens. Finally, he could admit to colluding with the Russians and declare Hillary the true winner.

If he did that his current support would instantly evaporate. But so long as he remains a Republican he will still get their broad support, because that is the only thing that really matters to them.
It's not the typical Republican that may change their minds. No, it would be swing voter who may need healthcare or SNAP. The typical right winger is on board as long as Trump is pushing standard Republican policies.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 02:58 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
I'd also argue that I do understand how angry they are. What I don't understand is why.
Listen to what they listen to: conservative talk radio, Infowars, Hannity and fundie preachers.

And now, Russian fake news.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 03:02 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
Listen to what they listen to: conservative talk radio, Infowars, Hannity and fundie preachers.
I listen to the local conservative talk radio, from time to time. It is often an exercise in identifying logical fallacies. If that is the why, then that would suggest that no Trump supporters are capable of thinking for themselves.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 03:04 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
He could just mention sensible gun control and that would do it.
I remember a surreal moment during the debates when Trump actually supported the Democrats' plan to block gun sales to people on terror watch lists. I thought it might trigger some blow-back but nothing came of it. It was a deeply uncomfortable experience for me to see Donald Trump move to the left of me on an issue.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 03:06 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
I listen to the local conservative talk radio, from time to time. It is often an exercise in identifying logical fallacies. If that is the why, then that would suggest that no Trump supporters are capable of thinking for themselves.
Bingo. And it's not a mere accident of birth. Most Trump supporters weren't born. They were made.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 03:11 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
You think he'll blame Trump for that?
And you don't think he pays all of it through his paycheck?
No, I don't think he pays it all of it through his paycheck. I think his employer subsidizes it, because it can. They are a quasi-governmental entity, like a fire district, which enables them to tax and spend with relatively little oversight. They also collect revenue to deliver water so that does muddy the picture some.

Years ago with some reputable help I learned that forming special districts in this state was lucrative indeed. Sorry, it's complicated and right now memory fails me but you can create these districts fairly easily in rural areas, ensuring income through property taxes. I'd love to give you more information but it will have to wait. The districts have the power to raise taxes on everyone within their boundaries.

I'm not clear what you mean when you ask, "You think he'll blame Trump for that?" If you mean would he blame Trump for a $1,200 monthly premium, I doubt it. It's not actually Trump's fault. Maybe he'll qualify for "recoverable tax credits" or whatever these subsidies are called. BTW $1,200/mo is way on the low side for two adults, age 62 and 53, plus a 24-year-old son and 22-year-old daughter.

He may have cooled on Trump by now. It's probably not based on one issue and I don't know what fueled his support in the first place. Anti-Hillary, maybe. Increasing the military budget. His wife and daughter are Democrats so if everyone votes they cancel each other out.

Last edited by Minoosh; 22nd May 2017 at 03:16 PM. Reason: Long post - bolded part to highlight part of answer
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Old 22nd May 2017, 03:14 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
I remember a surreal moment during the debates when Trump actually supported the Democrats' plan to block gun sales to people on terror watch lists. I thought it might trigger some blow-back but nothing came of it. It was a deeply uncomfortable experience for me to see Donald Trump move to the left of me on an issue.
It was was an interesting issue. Civil libertarians should have hated it as it would have deprived some folks a constitutional right without due process yet it was gun control that many conservatives favored it because it only violated the rights of minorities, mostly, who knows who was actually on that list.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 03:27 PM   #71
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What really concerns me lately is should Agent Orange ever be impeached, the likelihood of almost civil war.
Can you see his followers accepting it, or becoming so disenfranchised they end up behaving in totally unpredictable ways.....
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Old 22nd May 2017, 03:36 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by mikado View Post
What really concerns me lately is should Agent Orange ever be impeached, the likelihood of almost civil war.
Can you see his followers accepting it, or becoming so disenfranchised they end up behaving in totally unpredictable ways.....
Oh, I don't know. Depends on the evidence.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 04:10 PM   #73
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Many of them will not vote in 2018 elections. If Trump by some accident runs in 2020, they will not be excited. He did not manage a total shake up. In fact he is looking like a normal Republican.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 06:34 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by mikado View Post
or becoming so disenfranchised they end up behaving in totally unpredictable ways.....
You mean like the leftists blocking traffic and rioting when they have the time?
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Old 22nd May 2017, 06:35 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
He did not manage a total shake up. In fact he is looking like a normal Republican.
Lol
It's been 5 months, you might want to strap in!
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Old 22nd May 2017, 06:48 PM   #76
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Apathia hit on it. If Fox News started criticizing him on a regular basis - not constantly, but if their programming started largely reflecting reality - that would start crumbling some of his base. Otherwise, he could machine-gun a bus full of orphans, nuns, and puppies, and still not lose his core, because of the effective brainwashing to which they are subjected.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 07:01 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
You mean like the leftists blocking traffic and rioting when they have the time?
No, more like the armed morons at the Malheur NWR. The ones that needed their juice boxes, blankees and binkys. The real non-girly men that gave up not with a fight, but a whimper.

Less an insurrection than a temper-tantrum, the only wimp that attempted to use his gun got blasted. Needed more quickdraw lessons I guess.

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Old 22nd May 2017, 07:06 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol
It's been 5 months, you might want to strap in!
Actually only 4. January 20 to May 20 is 4 months.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 07:29 PM   #79
NoahFence
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Originally Posted by mikado View Post
What really concerns me lately is should Agent Orange ever be impeached, the likelihood of almost civil war.
Can you see his followers accepting it, or becoming so disenfranchised they end up behaving in totally unpredictable ways.....
They'll see to it that when we hear the word "terrorist" or see a bombing like today in England, the world will automatically think Y'all Queda, not Al Queda.

They'll be just like them. Loud but irrelevant.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 07:39 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Actually only 4. January 20 to May 20 is 4 months.
Alternative math.
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