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Tags donald trump , Trump supporters

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Old 22nd May 2017, 08:28 PM   #81
Polaris
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
I think the lowest his approval rating has been among Republicans is something like 75%, so that seems to be about what he can count on with his normal run of failures and personal defects. For it to go much below that, I think you'd have to have a major national security failure, an obvious economic collapse or a corruption scandal bigger and nastier than anything we've yet seen. These things would also have to happen in such a way that Trump would be personally blamed for them by his supporters and I think that's a tall order.
The way I see it, as bad as Trump is (and I rate actively chipping away at the First Amendment and check and balances as incredibly bad), these are a cure that's worse than the disease.

And anyway, his supporters would just blame Hillary, Obama and George Soros.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 08:31 PM   #82
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Isn't it great that Trump supporters are in the thread proving the point?
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Old 22nd May 2017, 09:14 PM   #83
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it seems that many Trump supporters didn't appreciate their Overlord's kowtowing to the Saudis and the becoming a Muslim himself by joining in their silly Sword Dance.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 09:30 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
As someone from Middle America, I'm not cowed by that idiotic lecturing.

Seriously, though, can you name one thing Trump has done or proposed since taking over that will materially aid Middle America or the middle class in any way?
Yep, and that whole narrative gets undermined when you see how few of his supporters seem to care if he breaks campaign promises and just spews BS about how much he has accomplished.
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Old 22nd May 2017, 09:34 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
The problem is, that makes absolutely no sense. Trump isn't going to do anything for lower or middle class. In many cases, he's actively working against them.

Maybe that is what will eventually cause Trump to lose supporters, when more and more of the middle class here in the midwest becomes the lower class that can't afford insurance because of their pre-existing conditions and those coal jobs don't come roaring back.
Even if he does nothing, they'll give him credit for trying
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Old 23rd May 2017, 03:50 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
As someone from Middle America, I'm not cowed by that idiotic lecturing.

Seriously, though, can you name one thing Trump has done or proposed since taking over that will materially aid Middle America or the middle class in any way?
It's worse than that. Trump is going to actively hurt those people who voted for him because they are hurting.
Quote:
President Trump on Tuesday will propose cutting federal spending by $3.6 trillion over 10 years, a historic budget contraction that would severely ratchet back spending across dozens of programs and could completely reshape government assistance to the poor.

The White House’s $4.094 trillion budget request for fiscal 2018 calls for cuts that hit Medicaid, food assistance and other anti-poverty programs. It would cut funding for the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP), which provides benefits to the poor, by roughly 20 percent next year.

All told, the budget would *reduce spending on safety-net programs by more than $1 trillion over 10 years.
(source)
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Old 23rd May 2017, 03:54 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
It's worse than that. Trump is going to actively hurt those people who voted for him because they are hurting.

(source)
yeah, but they'll love him because he's trying (and failing) to give them their jobs back
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Old 23rd May 2017, 03:55 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
It's worse than that. Trump is going to actively hurt those people who voted for him because they are hurting.

(source)
Lots of his voters need what he wants to slash and burn.

Quote:
The budget President Donald Trump is expected to unveil this week will include massive cuts to Medicaid, to child tax credit, to the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program -- and to the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) aka food stamps.

Based on a document circulated on Capitol Hill from the White House, the budget will slash $193 billion from SNAP. That may not go down too well with those who voted for him.

A CNN analysis found that of the top 10 places with the largest percentage of residents who use SNAP, seven voted for Trump in the 2016 elections.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 07:31 AM   #89
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I know a lot of Trump voters, but very few Trump supporters (in the sense that they supported Trump in the Primary, or voted for Trump without holding their nose).

This country has become so polarized. People who lean right will vote for Trump as long as they feel that the alternative is a group of anarco-syndicalists who want to remove the first and second amendments and replace it with sharia law. Trump has always had a small hard-core base of voters that are largely not traditional Republican voters, and then a large group of people that would have voted for Satan himself if he was running against someone whose last name was Clinton. Trump is not loved in the Republican sphere. However, most Republicans will support anyone who is perceived to support their power base. As soon as Trump is perceived as being so bad that he is hurting the future power base of the Republican party the majority of Republicans will drop him like a rabid stray cat. Leaving Trump only a small group of supporters who largely vote for Trump because they are hoping he will set the world on fire, and they want to watch it burn to spite everyone else with something to loose.

(I know, I know, no one on the left feels that they are close to the caricatures that the right portrays them as. The thing is the average member of the right is not what the left portrays them as either. To some degree, I think both sides are stuck in their own echo-chambers and have no empathy for the point of view of the other.)
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Old 23rd May 2017, 07:54 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Tormac View Post
People who lean right will vote for Trump as long as they feel that the alternative is a group of anarco-syndicalists who want to remove the first and second amendments and replace it with sharia law.
Even though I listen to local conservative talk radio, it still amazes me that there are people who take that idea seriously.



Originally Posted by Tormac View Post
Trump has always had a small hard-core base of voters that are largely not traditional Republican voters, and then a large group of people that would have voted for Satan himself if he was running against someone whose last name was Clinton. Trump is not loved in the Republican sphere. However, most Republicans will support anyone who is perceived to support their power base. As soon as Trump is perceived as being so bad that he is hurting the future power base of the Republican party the majority of Republicans will drop him like a rabid stray cat. Leaving Trump only a small group of supporters who largely vote for Trump because they are hoping he will set the world on fire, and they want to watch it burn to spite everyone else with something to loose.

(I know, I know, no one on the left feels that they are close to the caricatures that the right portrays them as. The thing is the average member of the right is not what the left portrays them as either. To some degree, I think both sides are stuck in their own echo-chambers and have no empathy for the point of view of the other.)
I question whether the two perceptions are equivalently inaccurate.

It seems to me that the right fears the left for what they imagine the left wants, whereas the left fears the right for what they are actually doing and saying. For all the bluster, Obama never took anyone's guns or enacted Sharia law, for example. Trump, on the other hand, has removed transgender protections, put anti-science people in charge of departments that require science, and is proposing a budget that will cut much needed anti-poverty programs like food stamps and Medicare*.



* Medicaid? I can never keep the two straight without looking them up.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 09:03 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Tormac View Post
I know a lot of Trump voters, but very few Trump supporters (in the sense that they supported Trump in the Primary, or voted for Trump without holding their nose).

This country has become so polarized. People who lean right will vote for Trump as long as they feel that the alternative is a group of anarco-syndicalists who want to remove the first and second amendments and replace it with sharia law. Trump has always had a small hard-core base of voters that are largely not traditional Republican voters, and then a large group of people that would have voted for Satan himself if he was running against someone whose last name was Clinton. Trump is not loved in the Republican sphere. However, most Republicans will support anyone who is perceived to support their power base.
Which are the actual issues they care most about? It seems to be getting rid of non white people and gays. Keeping the poor in their place and so on.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 09:20 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by seayakin View Post
Is there anything Trump can do to convince them to abandon their support?
I've brought up Trump's various admissions to obstructing justice, and (to a man) they changed the subject to Hillary Clinton.

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Old 23rd May 2017, 09:38 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
I'd also argue that I do understand how angry they are. What I don't understand is why.
I know I'm a day late on this, but there is a simple answer why: they are ********.

You can see this in their current support for the President. Why do they still support him despite all the bumbling? Because he is going to screw people over, and likely not them (although that is not guaranteed).

I saw a FB meme the other day, praising Trump because he will cut "94 million people off the federal government teat." That is a good thing, that overrides everything.

In other words, ****'em. As long as he can screw over poor people, they are happy. Because they are ********.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 09:40 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
it seems that many Trump supporters didn't appreciate their Overlord's kowtowing to the Saudis and the becoming a Muslim himself by joining in their silly Sword Dance.
Yeah, but will they do anything about it? It's about as meaningful as John McCain's criticisms (followed by, "fall in line and vote to support everything")
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Old 23rd May 2017, 09:43 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I know I'm a day late on this, but there is a simple answer why: they are ********.

You can see this in their current support for the President. Why do they still support him despite all the bumbling? Because he is going to screw people over, and likely not them (although that is not guaranteed).

I saw a FB meme the other day, praising Trump because he will cut "94 million people off the federal government teat." That is a good thing, that overrides everything.

In other words, ****'em. As long as he can screw over poor people, they are happy. Because they are ********.

That number of asterisks doesn't work for "stupid". Many of Trump supporters will be the victims of his policies.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 09:48 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I've brought up Trump's various admissions to obstructing justice, and (to a man) they changed the subject to Hillary Clinton.

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My bold, because it's kind of significant.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 10:15 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
That number of asterisks doesn't work for "stupid". Many of Trump supporters will be the victims of his policies.
Being stupid is not incompatible with the asterisks. Heck, call them stupid ******** if you want, although I don't think stupidity is as ubiquitous as the *******ry. They don't care about others, and, in fact, are happy to see them suffer, even if it means they have to suffer themselves. Call that what you will, but the word I have in mind fits within the asterisks.

Alternatively, you might consider them to be douchebags.

[edited to asterisk something that got by the autoreplace)
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Old 23rd May 2017, 10:16 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Even though I listen to local conservative talk radio, it still amazes me that there are people who take that idea seriously.




I question whether the two perceptions are equivalently inaccurate.

It seems to me that the right fears the left for what they imagine the left wants, whereas the left fears the right for what they are actually doing and saying. For all the bluster, Obama never took anyone's guns or enacted Sharia law, for example. Trump, on the other hand, has removed transgender protections, put anti-science people in charge of departments that require science, and is proposing a budget that will cut much needed anti-poverty programs like food stamps and Medicare*.



* Medicaid? I can never keep the two straight without looking them up.

Hi Upchurch,

You are right about the characterizations on the mass media. Much of our media is keyed on generating “outrage”. I suppose that outrage gets viewers. It also may be because of partisanship and the fact that it is fun to paint your opponents as the worst kind of people as a way of reinforcing one’s own goals. In my lifetime, conservative talk radio was the origin of this.

As far as the perceptions go, they may not be equivalent or accurate. However, both camps are guilty of this. Since you brought up gun control, I have heard the denial from the left that neither Obama or the left in general took away any one’s guns. This silly statement only serves to make the right suspicious of the people who say it. There were attempts by the Democrats during Obama’s terms as president to limit gun ownership (Senator Feinstein’s proposed 2013 Assault Weapon Ban bill is the one that caused the Gun Rights community to pound the war drums the loudest during President Obama’s terms.) That the Democrats were not successful was not because they did not try. I will grant you that no popular Democrat has actually suggested an outright repeal of the 2nd amendment, but I doubt any Republican actually claimed that they have (although I will say that the level of outrage on this does become shrill).

You have to admit UpChurch that President Obama’s clearly desired to increase the restrictions on the ownership of firearms. He was openly frustrated by the Republicans blocking his attempts during his administration. Are you arguing that the right was wrong in their assessment that the left wanted to increase limits on firearm ownership in the country?

I do not see how one can imply that this is an unfounded fear. That the left was not successful during President Obama’s two terms was largely because of the right’s power in congress.

I am not defending Trump, nor do I think that people who do not like his actions are wrong in not liking him. (I found myself saying repeatedly in this election that no-mater who you voted against this year, I can understand) I personally hope that the Democrats get an electable candidate the next time around and Trump is a single term president. The fact that some of the far left still seem to not realize that they actively do things that alienate people worries me.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 10:19 AM   #99
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Upthread I linked to this,

I do seriously wonder if that is going to hurt Trump in the CT demographic.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 10:20 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
it seems that many Trump supporters didn't appreciate their Overlord's kowtowing to the Saudis and the becoming a Muslim himself by joining in their silly Sword Dance.
Silly Sword Dance? Isn't that the one where they vow to behead infidels? As Colbert said last night, now we be a good time for the judges to reinstate the Muslim "extreme vetting" travel ban.

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Old 23rd May 2017, 10:39 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Tormac View Post
Hi Upchurch,

You are right about the characterizations on the mass media. Much of our media is keyed on generating “outrage”. I suppose that outrage gets viewers. It also may be because of partisanship and the fact that it is fun to paint your opponents as the worst kind of people as a way of reinforcing one’s own goals. In my lifetime, conservative talk radio was the origin of this.

As far as the perceptions go, they may not be equivalent or accurate. However, both camps are guilty of this. Since you brought up gun control, I have heard the denial from the left that neither Obama or the left in general took away any one’s guns. This silly statement only serves to make the right suspicious of the people who say it. There were attempts by the Democrats during Obama’s terms as president to limit gun ownership (Senator Feinstein’s proposed 2013 Assault Weapon Ban bill is the one that caused the Gun Rights community to pound the war drums the loudest during President Obama’s terms.) That the Democrats were not successful was not because they did not try. I will grant you that no popular Democrat has actually suggested an outright repeal of the 2nd amendment, but I doubt any Republican actually claimed that they have (although I will say that the level of outrage on this does become shrill).
Hey how can you justify electing a republican, do you know how much that has hurt the gun industry? Sales dropped off massively the day after the election and are really low. Why do you hate guns so much to want to drive their manufacturers out of business like that?

And the goal is to kill thousands of more americans a year through their health care reforms. That is what the base clearly wants. At least until they get personally sick then they suddenly think their health care is some kind of right.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 10:45 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Tormac View Post
I do not see how one can imply that this is an unfounded fear. That the left was not successful during President Obama’s two terms was largely because of the right’s power in congress.
It is unfounded in that gun control (reasonable or not, depending) is not gun confiscation (taking away guns), it is limiting possession. The gun lobby deliberately conflates the two, thus eliminating any productive discussion on the issue. As a former gun owner, I used to parrot the party line, though I knew it was dishonest.

No U.S. political party advocates gun confiscation. That's just nuts.

ETA: I may yet again own firearms as a post-retirement hobby.

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Old 23rd May 2017, 10:47 AM   #103
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Push though his health care reforms. It won’t stop them from believing in him, but many of them will die off.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 10:53 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Push though his health care reforms. It won’t stop them from believing in him, but many of them will die off.
That one is working to make him lose supporters. AHCA is toxic.

Quote:
Trump may be increasingly unpopular nationally, but Speaker Paul Ryan’s American Health Care Act — which Trump has backed but the conservative vision for which entirely predates his rise — is far more politically toxic. The evidence is mounting in ongoing congressional campaigns. In the upcoming special elections in Georgia and Montana, Democrats’ closing pitches have had far more to do with defending Obamacare than attacking Trump, while the Republicans in those races look to the president for political cover.

The stakes of the AHCA are immediate and obvious. Though a revised bill hasn’t received its final estimates, the AHCA would cost an estimated 24 million people their health insurance, according to the Congressional Budget Office. It creates a waiver that would allow states to opt out of key Obamacare rules, like the one banning insurers from charging those with preexisting conditions more. There is a seemingly endless list of provisions that are vulnerable to attack — massive tax cuts for the wealthy, smaller financial benefits for the poor and elderly, weaker protections for children and parents.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 11:06 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Trump is nothing but a worthless, disgusting, lying piece of crap.
Redundant. You said "Trump". The rest was unnecessary.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 11:22 AM   #106
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For one thing, Trump needs more of this to ensure continued success. It's no longer "how you play the game," or even if you win, it's how you mock opponents that counts nowadays in GOP brains, always in ways that would send any rightard into eternal frothing madness if done to them. Imagine, say, a BLM protester "spraying" some good ole boys this way. "OMG, that is so different. For starters, we are good Christian whites, they are not. Nuff said. Get Hannity on the horn, now."
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Old 23rd May 2017, 11:33 AM   #107
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Does Melania count as a supporter?

She keeps slapping away Trump like Dikembe Mutumbo in Riyadh the other day and today in Rome.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 11:36 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
She keeps slapping away Trump like Dikembe Mutumbo in Riyadh the other day and today in Rome.
She slapped him down again?

Fabulous.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 11:48 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Which are the actual issues they care most about? It seems to be getting rid of non white people and gays. Keeping the poor in their place and so on.
Hi Turtle,

It depends on which group you mean. I know two Trump “true believers”. They wanted to stop illegal immigration, bring good paying jobs and manufacturing back to the USA, and weed out corruption from the USA government. Those three things were the common talking points both shared with me.

I know dozens of Republicans who grudgingly voted for Trump. Their issues tended to be broken down along gender lines. The men overwhelmingly were second amendment voters. They wanted to make sure that a pro second amendment judge was nominated to replace Justice Scalia, and Hillary’s views on the Heller decision was well known.

As usual, the woman voters are more complicated. Some still reflexively vote Republican over the abortion issue. That Donald flip-flopped on this issue did not hurt him, as Hillary has not flipped at all. Some of the woman just outright hated Hillary. I am not sure why they hate her as much as they do. These are the people that forwarded tales of “spirit-cooking” Satanism, and child sex rings to each other on the internet. A third group voted for the Donald over issues of security. They saw him as a strong figure that ironically, would keep the USA safe from ISIS and Putin. The “illegal immigrants are criminals” also played into this group. They largely do not care about immigration, except that they are afraid that Muslim terrorists might cross the border with Mexico. They also fear the drug cartel violence spilling over the boarder.

None of the trump voters that I know of are worried about gay people.

None of these people want to keep out “non-whites”, just terrorists and criminals. Oddly enough, the most vocal Trump “true believers” that I know is the first generation son of a Mexican immigrant. He, like most of the people that are worried about the Mexican immigration issue are worried about illegal immigrants. For most of them, it seems to be a law and order feeling that some of the people crossing the border are likely Drug Cartel agents. I also think that there is a little resentment on my Hispanic friend that his family struggled through the immigration citizenship process the "hard way" and resents illegal immigrants that seem to have easier times of it. But I may be wrong about this.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 11:53 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Tormac View Post
Oddly enough, the most vocal Trump “true believers” that I know is the first generation son of a Mexican immigrant. He, like most of the people that are worried about the Mexican immigration issue are worried about illegal immigrants.
Can I ask a question, seriously: what's so worrying about illegal immigrants?

I mean, if it's principles about lost tax revenue, fine. But worrying?
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Old 23rd May 2017, 11:55 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Hey how can you justify electing a republican, do you know how much that has hurt the gun industry? Sales dropped off massively the day after the election and are really low. Why do you hate guns so much to want to drive their manufacturers out of business like that?

And the goal is to kill thousands of more americans a year through their health care reforms. That is what the base clearly wants. At least until they get personally sick then they suddenly think their health care is some kind of right.
Lol Turtle,

It is ironic that gun prices and gun sales seem to skyrocket when Democrats are elected, and then drop like a rock when Republicans are elected.

I am just glad that I can find rim-fire ammunition again.

As far as the health care issue goes I am not sure what drives the crazy mess that is our health care system in this country.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 12:07 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Tormac View Post
Lol Turtle,

It is ironic that gun prices and gun sales seem to skyrocket when Democrats are elected, and then drop like a rock when Republicans are elected.

I am just glad that I can find rim-fire ammunition again.

As far as the health care issue goes I am not sure what drives the crazy mess that is our health care system in this country.
It's not ironic, its partly driven by the fact that there are a load of conspiracy theorists who fear a non-existent assault on freedoms by a Democrat, whilst being blind to real attacks freedoms by a Republican. The First Amendment being an obvious target.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 12:12 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Tormac View Post
There were attempts by the Democrats during Obama’s terms as president to limit gun ownership (Senator Feinstein’s proposed 2013 Assault Weapon Ban bill is the one that caused the Gun Rights community to pound the war drums the loudest during President Obama’s terms.) That the Democrats were not successful was not because they did not try.
Harry Reid wouldn't even let that bill come to a vote.

Originally Posted by Tormac View Post
You have to admit UpChurch that President Obama’s clearly desired to increase the restrictions on the ownership of firearms.
Source?

Originally Posted by Tormac View Post
Are you arguing that the right was wrong in their assessment that the left wanted to increase limits on firearm ownership in the country?
Yes. Obama proposed to limitations on selling firearms, namely that all sellers had to perform background checks. There was also something about changing seller license requirements, but I don't remember any details about that.

Originally Posted by Tormac View Post
I do not see how one can imply that this is an unfounded fear. That the left was not successful during President Obama’s two terms was largely because of the right’s power in congress.
Or, as above, the Democrats preventing it.

Originally Posted by Tormac View Post
The fact that some of the far left still seem to not realize that they actively do things that alienate people worries me.
The thing is, the far left rarely gets into positions of any actual power. The far right does so more and more often.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 12:17 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
It is unfounded in that gun control (reasonable or not, depending) is not gun confiscation (taking away guns), it is limiting possession. The gun lobby deliberately conflates the two, thus eliminating any productive discussion on the issue. As a former gun owner, I used to parrot the party line, though I knew it was dishonest.

No U.S. political party advocates gun confiscation. That's just nuts.

ETA: I may yet again own firearms as a post-retirement hobby.
Hi Resume,

I hope we are not going to have a debate on the meaning of the word “voluntary”. (lol)

If I understand your statement then I cannot agree.

If I want to buy an ar-15, but they are illegal to buy or transfer, then that is a ban on ar-15’s (in relation to the proposed 2013 assault rifle ban). The fact that my neighbors already has one just makes me a little more resentful about it. It certainly does not make me more accepting of the ban.

Gun confiscation is almost never what the pro-gun side is talking about. The pro-gun side is usually talking about limits on purchasing guns, ammunition, or supplies. The notion that the proposed 2013 assault rifle ban should be acceptable to pro-second amendment types baffles me. However, this may be a bit of topic drift. I am willing to wade through another gun control thread with if you want Resume. I think we may need to start a new thread though; I do not want to gunk this one up.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 12:20 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Tormac View Post
I am willing to wade through another gun control thread with if you want Resume. I think we may need to start a new thread though; I do not want to gunk this one up.
I hate gun control threads. I've had the debate, been on both sides. There is much dishonesty.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 12:35 PM   #116
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I only know a pretty small number of Trump supporters offline. All of them cited concerns about illegal aliens from Mexico and Muslim refugees as reasons for their support of Trump. They didn't all want a physical border wall and at least a couple of them thought the Muslim ban went too far.
One thing I have noted is that they seem to think that the crackdown on illegal alien gangbangers is a new Trump administration thing - they either don't know or won't accept that the Obama administration was already doing this. Most of those same folks also don't seem to know that the Obama administration was already vetting Muslim refugees pretty carefully. They seem to think it was darn near wide open before Trump.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 12:59 PM   #117
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Much to my disappointment, my father voted for Trump. It seems to be entirely because my father hasn't voted for a democrat since LBJ and throwing bombs. My old man was in the military at the time and never forgave LBJs lying about Vietnam. For a nearly 80 year old Irish Catholic from New York, he's actually not that racist or homophobic. I also have one coworker that voted for Trump(maybe more but only one I know of) she basically doesn't pay attention to politics and suspect she might be racist. She talks about moving to New Zealand, which makes no sense given how not progressive she is unless the large white majority figures in.

Anyrate, based on my experience, Trump voters are 50/50 racist/bomb throwers and folks that just can't vote democrat.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 01:13 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Push though his health care reforms. It won’t stop them from believing in him, but many of them will die off.
... and to speed up the process, push through "welfare reform" = slash food stamps.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 01:44 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Harry Reid wouldn't even let that bill come to a vote.


Source?


Yes. Obama proposed to limitations on selling firearms, namely that all sellers had to perform background checks. There was also something about changing seller license requirements, but I don't remember any details about that.


Or, as above, the Democrats preventing it.


The thing is, the far left rarely gets into positions of any actual power. The far right does so more and more often.
Hi UpChurch,

Concerning the proposed 2013 assault weapons ban, as your link said Harry Reid wouldn’t even allow it to come to a vote because he was sure that it would not pass. I think we are agreement on this, but maybe I am missing your point.

I don’t understand when you say that I am not correct in the notion that the right’s fear of the left increasing gun-control restrictions was reasonable. From your link to Wikipedia:


“In March 2013, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid decided to leave the proposed ban out of the broader gun control bill, saying that it was unlikely to win 40 votes in the 100-member chamber and that it would jeopardize more widely supported proposals.[31] On the morning of April 17, 2013, Feinstein displayed on the Senate floor a blow-up of a New York Daily News front page with photos of the 20 dead Sandy Hook Elementary School children and the headline, "Shame on U.S."[32][33]Before the vote, she said to her colleagues, "Show some guts." However, as expected,[34] S. 150, the Assault Weapons Ban of 2013, failed on a vote of 40 in favor to 60 in opposition. It was supported by Democrat Reid and Republican Senator Mark Kirk, but 15 Democrats, one independent, and all the Republicans except Kirk voted against the ban.[32]

After the vote, Feinstein said that Congress' failure to pass the law would lead a number of states passing their own assault weapons bans. She vowed to keep trying, and said "I believe the American people are far ahead of their elected officials on this issue."[32]””


Harry Reid left Feinstein’s assault bill out because it would not have garnered enough votes. Even though it was defeated, Sen Feinstein vowed to “keep trying” (to pass a similar bill).

As per https://projects.propublica.org/repr...3/senate/1/101
The pro votes were almost all Democrats, with the exception of one Republican and one independent.

The desire to pass stricter gun-control legislation was coming from the left, and opposed strongly by the right. The Democrats did not prevent the 2013 assault weapons bill, it was a Democratic bill, championed by Sen Feinstein, and co-sponsored by all Democrats. (https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-...150/cosponsors). It was the overwhelmingly Republican no vote that stopped it. I guess in hindsight one could say "see the right won, they had nothing to worry about". But of course nobody on either side actually thinks like that.

In relation to my statement

“The fact that some of the far left still seem to not realize that they actively do things that alienate people worries me.”

I think I was not clear with my intent. I am not claiming that the left is guiltier of this than the right. Our current President revels in alienating his political enemies, and half the time I think he likes to take pot shots at neutral parties and even those on his side that he does not see as strong enough. Of all the things that President Trump does that aggravates me, his needless attacking of people is one of the worst for the long term fiber of the country.

Will he eventually make enough Republicans Irate enough that they will start leaving him too? Personally I think he will. I hope the Democrats have someone running who can pick up some of their votes.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 02:10 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Can I ask a question, seriously: what's so worrying about illegal immigrants?

I mean, if it's principles about lost tax revenue, fine. But worrying?
Hi Argumemnon,

I don’t know if you are asking me, or people in general. I personally am not worried about them (don’t get me wrong I am not a Trump supporter and found his story of building a wall and making Mexico pay for it to be offensive to my intelligence).

From people I know who seem to be worried about them; it seems to come down to one of two things. Fear of crime and terror (Drug Cartel operatives and or ISIS operatives sneaking into the country), and a fear of an exploitable work pool that drives down the wages of real ‘mericans.
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