What can Trump do to lose his supporters? - Page 4

thaiboxerken · 23rd May 2017, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by Upchurch

It seems to me that the right fears the left for what they imagine the left wants, whereas the left fears the right for what they are actually doing and saying. For all the bluster, Obama never took anyone's guns or enacted Sharia law, for example. Trump, on the other hand, has removed transgender protections, put anti-science people in charge of departments that require science, and is proposing a budget that will cut much needed anti-poverty programs like food stamps and Medicare*.

This is an accurate observation. Also, many on the right try to quell the concerns of the left by saying such things as "even though our candidate says he wants to do (insert bad thing here), it's just pandering."
At the same time, they try to fuel flames of fear of the left by saying the left's candidates are trying to do things that the candidate never said they would.

Polaris · 23rd May 2017, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes

For one thing, Trump needs more of this to ensure continued success. It's no longer "how you play the game," or even if you win, it's how you mock opponents that counts nowadays in GOP brains, always in ways that would send any rightard into eternal frothing madness if done to them. Imagine, say, a BLM protester "spraying" some good ole boys this way. "OMG, that is so different. For starters, we are good Christian whites, they are not. Nuff said. Get Hannity on the horn, now."

Those guys swore an oath to defend the nation from enemies both foreign and domestic. If there had been live ammo in that Ma Deuce they would have made it possible for him to literally kiss his own ass goodbye.

ponderingturtle · 24th May 2017, 03:11 AM

Originally Posted by Tormac

Hi Turtle,

It depends on which group you mean. I know two Trump “true believers”. They wanted to stop illegal immigration, bring good paying jobs and manufacturing back to the USA, and weed out corruption from the USA government. Those three things were the common talking points both shared with me.

And what policies of his do they think would actually do that? And do they know how much smaller the work forces in modern manufacturing are than they were 70 years ago? I see empty parking lots at GM factories that have solar panels because they just don't need the work force they used to.

I think those are good goals, I just don't see how the polices of hiring lobbyists and corporate leaders is supposed to reduce corruption, and how his policies are supposed to increase employment.

Quote:

I know dozens of Republicans who grudgingly voted for Trump. Their issues tended to be broken down along gender lines. The men overwhelmingly were second amendment voters. They wanted to make sure that a pro second amendment judge was nominated to replace Justice Scalia, and Hillary’s views on the Heller decision was well known.

And they don't care about the likelihood that employees will be fired for not dying for their owners like they should.

Quote:

None of the trump voters that I know of are worried about gay people.

So they also don't care about the stripping of their rights and sending them back to die in chechnya.

Quote:

None of these people want to keep out “non-whites”, just terrorists and criminals. Oddly enough, the most vocal Trump “true believers” that I know is the first generation son of a Mexican immigrant. He, like most of the people that are worried about the Mexican immigration issue are worried about illegal immigrants. For most of them, it seems to be a law and order feeling that some of the people crossing the border are likely Drug Cartel agents. I also think that there is a little resentment on my Hispanic friend that his family struggled through the immigration citizenship process the "hard way" and resents illegal immigrants that seem to have easier times of it. But I may be wrong about this.

They aren't going to put it in those words, but which terrorists and criminals are they more concerned about? What do they look like in their minds?

The biggest group of people who kill the police are conservative armed men like them after all.

How do they insulate themselves from basic statistics about who criminals and terrorists are?

ponderingturtle · 24th May 2017, 03:13 AM

Originally Posted by Tormac

Lol Turtle,

It is ironic that gun prices and gun sales seem to skyrocket when Democrats are elected, and then drop like a rock when Republicans are elected.

I am just glad that I can find rim-fire ammunition again.

As far as the health care issue goes I am not sure what drives the crazy mess that is our health care system in this country.

That is easy, the answer is like in any capitalist system, it is driven by profit as it should be. That is clearly the most moral thing that could possibly drive it, as all morality flows from money. Read more Rand.

ponderingturtle · 24th May 2017, 03:15 AM

Originally Posted by Upchurch

Yes. Obama proposed to limitations on selling firearms, namely that all sellers had to perform background checks. There was also something about changing seller license requirements, but I don't remember any details about that.

While those kind of regulations are rather popular in theory in practice no gun owner would really support the laws that would be needed to put them into practice.

ponderingturtle · 24th May 2017, 03:17 AM

Originally Posted by Tormac

Hi Resume,

I hope we are not going to have a debate on the meaning of the word “voluntary”. (lol)

If I understand your statement then I cannot agree.

If I want to buy an ar-15, but they are illegal to buy or transfer, then that is a ban on ar-15’s (in relation to the proposed 2013 assault rifle ban). The fact that my neighbors already has one just makes me a little more resentful about it. It certainly does not make me more accepting of the ban.

And mass shootings are the best advertising any gun manufacturer can possibly get. Gun owner want to be able to stage large terrorist attacks, it is the entire purpose of the second amendment after all. How else is one supposed to overthrow the government.

ponderingturtle · 24th May 2017, 03:19 AM

Originally Posted by Polaris

Those guys swore an oath to defend the nation from enemies both foreign and domestic. If there had been live ammo in that Ma Deuce they would have made it possible for him to literally kiss his own ass goodbye.

The press is now the enemy, we need to defend america from the free press.

Craig4 · 24th May 2017, 03:31 AM

Originally Posted by seayakin

Is there anything Trump can do to convince them to abandon their support?

Get his budget passed. The people for whom the country is not working rely on the programs he's going to cut.

ponderingturtle · 24th May 2017, 03:40 AM

Originally Posted by Craig4

Get his budget passed. The people for whom the country is not working rely on the programs he's going to cut.

You think they will blame him, or will it be the democrats fault somehow?

TellyKNeasuss · 24th May 2017, 04:26 AM

What can Trump do to lose his supporters? One way might be to push for an increase in Affirmative Action programs.

ponderingturtle · 24th May 2017, 04:38 AM

Originally Posted by TellyKNeasuss

What can Trump do to lose his supporters? One way might be to push for an increase in Affirmative Action programs.

He is gutting the range management something ranchers depend on. I think they will love him for that for some reason.

ponderingturtle · 24th May 2017, 09:01 AM

http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/24/news...s-budget-cuts/

These people wanted to cut entitlements, why should they be so shocked that they were the entitled people who needed to work harder to pull themselves out of poverty?

Once their kids start to starve they will find it in them to go back to work.

cxkwz3374 · 28th May 2017, 04:13 PM

I thought that rural America was a land of wisdom, common sense, and distrust of urban areas, and yet so many rural Americans voted for the city slicker from hell.

tyr_13 · 28th May 2017, 06:56 PM

He's been losing his 'strong support' faster than anything else, and gaining strong opposition to the point where that often exceeds all his approval combined.

The Republicans are still tribal, but everyone else is jumping ship. Everyone else doing that leaves him with 20%.

So there might be some hope that this comes back to bite the Republicans hard, but don't count on it.

Civet · 28th May 2017, 07:19 PM

Glad to see that the Republican health care plan was one of the things that hurt his support. Still wonder what Republican voters thought they would get in a health care plan when they voted R.

thaiboxerken · 28th May 2017, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by Civet

Glad to see that the Republican health care plan was one of the things that hurt his support. Still wonder what Republican voters thought they would get in a health care plan when they voted R.

They probably thought that all of the "bad people" would get their health insurance taken away, but not themselves. Medicare for me!!

23rd May 2017, 08:30 PM	#121
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 31,706	Originally Posted by Upchurch It seems to me that the right fears the left for what they imagine the left wants, whereas the left fears the right for what they are actually doing and saying. For all the bluster, Obama never took anyone's guns or enacted Sharia law, for example. Trump, on the other hand, has removed transgender protections, put anti-science people in charge of departments that require science, and is proposing a budget that will cut much needed anti-poverty programs like food stamps and Medicare*. This is an accurate observation. Also, many on the right try to quell the concerns of the left by saying such things as "even though our candidate says he wants to do (insert bad thing here), it's just pandering." At the same time, they try to fuel flames of fear of the left by saying the left's candidates are trying to do things that the candidate never said they would.
	__________________ 1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.

23rd May 2017, 09:36 PM	#122
Polaris Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 11,396	Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes For one thing, Trump needs more of this to ensure continued success. It's no longer "how you play the game," or even if you win, it's how you mock opponents that counts nowadays in GOP brains, always in ways that would send any rightard into eternal frothing madness if done to them. Imagine, say, a BLM protester "spraying" some good ole boys this way. "OMG, that is so different. For starters, we are good Christian whites, they are not. Nuff said. Get Hannity on the horn, now." Those guys swore an oath to defend the nation from enemies both foreign and domestic. If there had been live ammo in that Ma Deuce they would have made it possible for him to literally kiss his own ass goodbye.
	__________________ "There's vastly more truth to be found in rocks than in holy books. Rocks are far superior, in fact, because you can DEMONSTRATE the truth found in rocks. Plus, they're pretty. Holy books are just heavy." - Dinwar "Let your ears hear this beautiful song that's hiding underneath the sound," Ed Kowalczyk.

24th May 2017, 03:11 AM	#123
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,412	Originally Posted by Tormac Hi Turtle, It depends on which group you mean. I know two Trump “true believers”. They wanted to stop illegal immigration, bring good paying jobs and manufacturing back to the USA, and weed out corruption from the USA government. Those three things were the common talking points both shared with me. And what policies of his do they think would actually do that? And do they know how much smaller the work forces in modern manufacturing are than they were 70 years ago? I see empty parking lots at GM factories that have solar panels because they just don't need the work force they used to. I think those are good goals, I just don't see how the polices of hiring lobbyists and corporate leaders is supposed to reduce corruption, and how his policies are supposed to increase employment. Quote: I know dozens of Republicans who grudgingly voted for Trump. Their issues tended to be broken down along gender lines. The men overwhelmingly were second amendment voters. They wanted to make sure that a pro second amendment judge was nominated to replace Justice Scalia, and Hillary’s views on the Heller decision was well known. And they don't care about the likelihood that employees will be fired for not dying for their owners like they should. Quote: None of the trump voters that I know of are worried about gay people. So they also don't care about the stripping of their rights and sending them back to die in chechnya. Quote: None of these people want to keep out “non-whites”, just terrorists and criminals. Oddly enough, the most vocal Trump “true believers” that I know is the first generation son of a Mexican immigrant. He, like most of the people that are worried about the Mexican immigration issue are worried about illegal immigrants. For most of them, it seems to be a law and order feeling that some of the people crossing the border are likely Drug Cartel agents. I also think that there is a little resentment on my Hispanic friend that his family struggled through the immigration citizenship process the "hard way" and resents illegal immigrants that seem to have easier times of it. But I may be wrong about this. They aren't going to put it in those words, but which terrorists and criminals are they more concerned about? What do they look like in their minds? The biggest group of people who kill the police are conservative armed men like them after all. How do they insulate themselves from basic statistics about who criminals and terrorists are?
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

24th May 2017, 03:13 AM	#124
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,412	Originally Posted by Tormac Lol Turtle, It is ironic that gun prices and gun sales seem to skyrocket when Democrats are elected, and then drop like a rock when Republicans are elected. I am just glad that I can find rim-fire ammunition again. As far as the health care issue goes I am not sure what drives the crazy mess that is our health care system in this country. That is easy, the answer is like in any capitalist system, it is driven by profit as it should be. That is clearly the most moral thing that could possibly drive it, as all morality flows from money. Read more Rand.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

24th May 2017, 03:15 AM	#125
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,412	Originally Posted by Upchurch Yes. Obama proposed to limitations on selling firearms, namely that all sellers had to perform background checks. There was also something about changing seller license requirements, but I don't remember any details about that. While those kind of regulations are rather popular in theory in practice no gun owner would really support the laws that would be needed to put them into practice.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

24th May 2017, 03:17 AM	#126
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,412	Originally Posted by Tormac Hi Resume, I hope we are not going to have a debate on the meaning of the word “voluntary”. (lol) If I understand your statement then I cannot agree. If I want to buy an ar-15, but they are illegal to buy or transfer, then that is a ban on ar-15’s (in relation to the proposed 2013 assault rifle ban). The fact that my neighbors already has one just makes me a little more resentful about it. It certainly does not make me more accepting of the ban. And mass shootings are the best advertising any gun manufacturer can possibly get. Gun owner want to be able to stage large terrorist attacks, it is the entire purpose of the second amendment after all. How else is one supposed to overthrow the government.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

24th May 2017, 03:19 AM	#127
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,412	Originally Posted by Polaris Those guys swore an oath to defend the nation from enemies both foreign and domestic. If there had been live ammo in that Ma Deuce they would have made it possible for him to literally kiss his own ass goodbye. The press is now the enemy, we need to defend america from the free press.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

24th May 2017, 03:31 AM	#128
Craig4 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: I live in a swamp Posts: 22,550	Originally Posted by seayakin Is there anything Trump can do to convince them to abandon their support? Get his budget passed. The people for whom the country is not working rely on the programs he's going to cut.

24th May 2017, 03:40 AM	#129
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,412	Originally Posted by Craig4 Get his budget passed. The people for whom the country is not working rely on the programs he's going to cut. You think they will blame him, or will it be the democrats fault somehow?
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

24th May 2017, 04:26 AM	#130
TellyKNeasuss Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,625	What can Trump do to lose his supporters? One way might be to push for an increase in Affirmative Action programs.
	__________________ "Facts are stupid things." Ronald Reagan

24th May 2017, 04:38 AM	#131
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,412	Originally Posted by TellyKNeasuss What can Trump do to lose his supporters? One way might be to push for an increase in Affirmative Action programs. He is gutting the range management something ranchers depend on. I think they will love him for that for some reason.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

24th May 2017, 09:01 AM	#132
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,412	http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/24/news...s-budget-cuts/ These people wanted to cut entitlements, why should they be so shocked that they were the entitled people who needed to work harder to pull themselves out of poverty? Once their kids start to starve they will find it in them to go back to work.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

28th May 2017, 04:13 PM	#133
cxkwz3374 New Blood Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Worcester, MA Posts: 3	I thought that rural America was a land of wisdom, common sense, and distrust of urban areas, and yet so many rural Americans voted for the city slicker from hell.

28th May 2017, 06:56 PM	#134
tyr_13 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 16,411	He's been losing his 'strong support' faster than anything else, and gaining strong opposition to the point where that often exceeds all his approval combined. The Republicans are still tribal, but everyone else is jumping ship. Everyone else doing that leaves him with 20%. So there might be some hope that this comes back to bite the Republicans hard, but don't count on it.
	__________________ Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong

28th May 2017, 07:19 PM	#135
Civet Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,657	Glad to see that the Republican health care plan was one of the things that hurt his support. Still wonder what Republican voters thought they would get in a health care plan when they voted R.
Civet Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,657

28th May 2017, 07:23 PM	#136
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 31,706	Originally Posted by Civet Glad to see that the Republican health care plan was one of the things that hurt his support. Still wonder what Republican voters thought they would get in a health care plan when they voted R. They probably thought that all of the "bad people" would get their health insurance taken away, but not themselves. Medicare for me!!
	__________________ 1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.