Where is the Common Ground?

Fudbucker · 13th August 2018, 04:53 PM

"Wacky Omarosa, who got fired 3 times on the Apprentice, now got fired for the last time. She never made it, never will. She begged me for a job, tears in her eyes, I said Ok. People in the White House hated her. She was vicious, but not smart. I would rarely see her but heard....

While I know it’s “not presidential” to take on a lowlife like Omarosa, and while I would rather not be doing so, this is a modern day form of communication and I know the Fake News Media will be working overtime to make even Wacky Omarosa look legitimate as possible. Sorry!"

Can you imagine what would have happened if Obama or Bush had said something this retarded? And this is just example A in the ongoing **** show.

How can anyone take a Trump supporter seriously? What common ground does an intelligent person have with these people?

Apathia · 13th August 2018, 06:12 PM

I'm afraid that in many cases the only common ground is superficial chatter and movie night with popcorn.

PhantomWolf · 13th August 2018, 06:53 PM

Seems he's getting in before her tell all book hits the shelves. From what I have heard she doesn't have any love left for Trump and so doesn't hold back, at least in one part calling Trump mentally unstable.

Fudbucker · 13th August 2018, 06:58 PM

I wonder if there are any conservatives left here who think debasing the office this much was worth a Supreme Court pick.

The Big Dog · 13th August 2018, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by Fudbucker

I wonder if there are any conservatives left here who think debasing the office this much was worth a Supreme Court pick.

TWO Supreme Court justices. And counting.

Now my thought is that the best way to reach common ground is to come out and let the other side know that you think they are not intelligent.

Solid.

Trebuchet · 13th August 2018, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by Fudbucker

"Wacky Omarosa, who got fired 3 times on the Apprentice, now got fired for the last time. She never made it, never will. She begged me for a job, tears in her eyes, I said Ok. People in the White House hated her. She was vicious, but not smart. I would rarely see her but heard....

While I know it’s “not presidential” to take on a lowlife like Omarosa, and while I would rather not be doing so, this is a modern day form of communication and I know the Fake News Media will be working overtime to make even Wacky Omarosa look legitimate as possible. Sorry!"

Can you imagine what would have happened if Obama or Bush had said something this retarded? And this is just example A in the ongoing **** show.

How can anyone take a Trump supporter seriously? What common ground does an intelligent person have with these people?

And that was pretty much word for word what he heard on Fox and Friends just a few minutes earlier. He can't even rant out of his own head.

Cain · 13th August 2018, 07:30 PM

President Trump is such a bleeding heart. He gave this Black woman opportunity after opportunity, but she proved she wasn't good enough to serve our favorite president.

Tero · 13th August 2018, 07:32 PM

Things we can agree on:
Ice cream good. Cancer bad. Not everybody should wear stretchy outfits for sports. Trump cheats at golf.

rustypouch · 13th August 2018, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by The Big Dog

TWO Supreme Court justices. And counting.

Now my thought is that the best way to reach common ground is to come out and let the other side know that you think they are not intelligent.

Solid.

How do you reach common ground with people who oppose you no matter the issue and not matter what you do, who refuse to acknowledge their hypocrisy, and are almost never right about anything?

Like dealing with creationists, flat earthers, anti-vaxxers, etc., it's about ideology. Facts and reason do influence them. Where is the common ground?

thaiboxerken · 13th August 2018, 07:40 PM

You reach common ground by taking over all three government branches and making it illegal to disagree with the government. Republicans have taken major steps in this direction. Like TBD says, 2 SCOTUS and counting.

Skeptic Ginger · 13th August 2018, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by Fudbucker

I wonder if there are any conservatives left here who think debasing the office this much was worth a Supreme Court pick.

There's a whole lot of denial going on. They tell themselves "it's the policies", they can forget/forgive the whole pile of **** that is Trump and imagine he's the magic man.

The economy's good. Sure, when you inherited a good economy and you injected an unneeded stimulus tax cut into to, the facade looks rosy pink.

Deficit, don't show me that. Pollution that goes with the supposed wonderful deregulation, nope, don't want to see that. Atrocious actions toward Hispanic immigrants, I'm white, I hear they broke some laws, and those Muslims, we can't have them taking over this good Christian country.

That is who you are talking about that think Trump is worth it.

I heard pundits today saying the amount of dishonesty and pettiness that is Trump isn't new. Other politicians were just as bad. So, they still don't accept that Trump IS NOT NORMAL.

BobTheCoward · 13th August 2018, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by The Big Dog

TWO Supreme Court justices. And counting.

Now my thought is that the best way to reach common ground is to come out and let the other side know that you think they are not intelligent.

Solid.

What did you think about Trump's behavior around this hire?

Stacyhs · 13th August 2018, 11:00 PM

I think anyone who still supports this POS after all he has done to debase the office of POTUS has lost any benefit of a doubt I might once have given them. Frankly, I have no respect for the intelligence of anyone that easily deceived by such an obvious and self-serving, loathsome toad.

fagin · 13th August 2018, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

What did you think about Trump's behavior around this hire?

What did you think about Trump's behaviour around this hire?

BobTheCoward · 14th August 2018, 05:21 AM

Originally Posted by fagin

What did you think about Trump's behaviour around this hire?

My opinion would derail this thread.

ahhell · 14th August 2018, 05:57 AM

The common ground is that we are all prone to the same cognitive biases and tribalism which is whats driving Trumps support at this point. Believe it or not, a lot of dems, probably most would line up behind a crazy loon if he managed to get elected too. Probably not as many as the GOP but still.

Note the next thing is not a "What about" but rather the most obvious similar though not as extreme examples of dems forgiving the sins of their leaders even when they are quite contrary to the state ideals of most dems. Bill Clinton was a serial womanizer and had been accused of sexual assault then ****** and intern in the oval office the the political party of women's rights just said, "its only sex".

So the point is, the common ground is that all people are most skilled at crafting post hoc rationalizations for the decisions we mostly make with out thinking about it much first. Even we enlightened skeptics.

That and he supreme court picks and a lot of his actual policy are pretty conservative regardless of the **** spewing from his mouth.

Ziggurat · 14th August 2018, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by ahhell

That and he supreme court picks and a lot of his actual policy are pretty conservative regardless of the **** spewing from his mouth.

Bingo. Stop paying attention to Twitter, and politics starts seeming a lot more normal.

Lurch · 14th August 2018, 07:27 AM

A Democratic President behaving as a national embarrassment on the world stage (sucking up to Putin at Helsinki, caging children, kowtowing to Kim, etc., etc., etc.) would suffer serious pushback from his Party and voters. But with Trump's supporters it's "America, **** yeah!"

The Dems ousted a Senator of theirs based on a single (adult) person's claims of sexual impropriety, but the Repubs elect "Grab 'em by the pussy!" Trump while he was also standing accused by more than a dozen women, *and* they tried to elect another creep for Senator accused of molesting teens.

Indeed. Where's the common ground?

The Big Dog · 14th August 2018, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by Lurch

The Dems ousted a Senator of theirs based on a single (adult) person's claims of sexual impropriety

which Senator was that??

Apathia · 14th August 2018, 09:38 AM

A line in the sand:

"To defy the authority of empirical evidence is to disqualify oneself as someone worthy of critical engagement in a dialogue."

Tenzin Gyatso

(Except dialogs about B movies, such as The Meg)

ahhell · 14th August 2018, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by Lurch

A Democratic President behaving as a national embarrassment on the world stage (sucking up to Putin at Helsinki, caging children, kowtowing to Kim, etc., etc., etc.) would suffer serious pushback from his Party and voters. But with Trump's supporters it's "America, **** yeah!"

The Dems ousted a Senator of theirs based on a single (adult) person's claims of sexual impropriety, but the Repubs elect "Grab 'em by the pussy!" Trump while he was also standing accused by more than a dozen women, *and* they tried to elect another creep for Senator accused of molesting teens.

Indeed. Where's the common ground?

Personally, I think this overstates the rationality of Dems. You are probably right that there would be more democratic opposition to someone as loony as Trump but there would be a lot that got fully on board the crazy train. Just look at polling on American attitudes towards Russia. The parties basically switched opinion because of of Trump. (less so among dems admittedly.) There's also plenty of research that clearly shows that both liberals/dems and conservatives/reps will have more or less positive opinions on politics and ideas based solely on who they think states those opinions.

https://youarenotsosmart.com/transcr...al-psychology/

Quote:

There is there there’s a lot of scientists and Geoffrey Cohen — this is my favorite experiment that was ever done — he gave people a position on welfare and experimentally altered it so that either the Republicans or Democrats were saying basically the same thing on welfare. It’s an unknown issue, right? It’s welfare. And what he found was that he could get people to change their position on welfare, 100 percent, all the way to the other side of the spectrum of policy, just based on what party they were told supported that position. And the crazy thing is that after they said they supported that position, he asked them why they supported that position, and they didn’t say, “Because my party does.” They came up with other reasons. So, after being experimentally induced into holding a position that they actually didn’t agree with, they then came up with reasons that they thought they agreed with that.

Again, the common ground is we all do this to some extent. It makes me quite sad that folks on a skeptics forum are so willing to ignore some basic lessons of skepticism because they hate the other tribe so much.

WilliamSeger · 14th August 2018, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Bingo. Stop paying attention to Twitter, and politics starts seeming a lot more normal.

********, you have to stop paying attention, period.

The Shrike · 14th August 2018, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by ahhell

Believe it or not, a lot of dems, probably most would line up behind a crazy loon if he managed to get elected too.

But what would that look like? We have a crazy right wing person now being enabled by ostensibly less crazy right wing people. Would a crazy left wing president like . . . rely too heavily on science to inform policy? Would there be too little discrimination?

Spock Jenkins · 14th August 2018, 10:20 AM

Anyone who saw any seasons of The Apprentice with Omarosa on them, I have to think, was completely baffled that he would hire her in the first place. The only reason she appeared to be on that show was the ratings her train wreck behavior drew in. The fact that she went all “Omarosa” and recorded things she shouldn’t have and is now attempting to capitalize on them should come as a shock to no one.

Trump really shouldn’t have a negative thing to say about her or the situation. He basically invited it. I don’t know how he thought it would end any differently.

Interesting experiment, ahhell. And no surprise. Reminds me of all the people willing to sign a petition to end the sufferage of women or to ban dihydrogen monoxide.

C_Felix · 14th August 2018, 10:47 AM

Party before country.

theprestige · 14th August 2018, 10:50 AM

I thought there would be common ground agreeing that Trump is a colossal buffoon, and that the American institutions of government are more than robust enough to survive a buffoon administration. Boy, was I wrong about that.

Not wrong about the strength of American institutions - they're doing just fine, obviously. But wrong about half the country being able to comprehend this.

acbytesla · 14th August 2018, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by theprestige

I thought there would be common ground agreeing that Trump is a colossal buffoon, and that the American institutions of government are more than robust enough to survive a buffoon administration. Boy, was I wrong about that.

Not wrong about the strength of American institutions - they're doing just fine, obviously. But wrong about half the country being able to comprehend this.

I'm not sure they are. We'll see after Trump fires Mueller.

The_Animus · 14th August 2018, 11:12 AM

There is no common ground.

The fields were burned and the ground salted because that'll show those libtards!

Fudbucker · 14th August 2018, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Bingo. Stop paying attention to Twitter, and politics starts seeming a lot more normal.

We're supposed to not pay attention to official statements from our own President? Do you know how loony that sounds?

theprestige · 14th August 2018, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I'm not sure they are. We'll see after Trump fires Mueller.

The country has survived a Civil War with its institutions intact. Nothing that's happened in the past two years - not the tweets, not the gaffes, not the racism, not even the Russian meddling (such as it was) - rises anywhere near that level.

The irony is that the Russian objective was to get Americans to give up on their national institutions. You're the one who's giving up, not me. I'm not the Russian collaborator, here.

TragicMonkey · 14th August 2018, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Fudbucker

We're supposed to not pay attention to official statements from our own President? Do you know how loony that sounds?

Well, if you ignore what he says and does, and how he acts, and his past actions, and his proposals for future actions, and the input of everybody who has ever worked with or encountered him, why then Trumb seems an okay guy! I can't see why you can't overcome partisan bias to admit it.

TragicMonkey · 14th August 2018, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by theprestige

The country has survived a Civil War with its institutions intact. Nothing that's happened in the past two years - not the tweets, not the gaffes, not the racism, not even the Russian meddling (such as it was) - rises anywhere near that level.

The irony is that the Russian objective was to get Americans to give up on their national institutions. You're the one who's giving up, not me. I'm not the Russian collaborator, here.

Yes, the FCC, ICE, FBI, CIA, NPS, and Depts of Labor, Education, and Energy suffered no damage from the Civil War. Neither did NASA, or NATO, or the UN.

theprestige · 14th August 2018, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Yes, the FCC, ICE, FBI, CIA, NPS, and Depts of Labor, Education, and Energy suffered no damage from the Civil War. Neither did NASA, or NATO, or the UN.

We might actually have some common ground here, but with the sarcasm(?) it's hard to tell. Also, I think you may have misread my post. But again, with the sarcasm(?) it's hard to tell.

Can you try again without the sarcasm? Just your counter-argument as such?

Lurch · 14th August 2018, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by The Big Dog

which Senator was that??

Forgot Al Franken already? I guess the ongoing battles to defend the current Administration's repugnance by ingesting, inventing and investing in all manner of whackadoodle whatabouts does place limits on the amount of information that can be retained for quick recall.

ahhell · 14th August 2018, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by The Shrike

But what would that look like? We have a crazy right wing person now being enabled by ostensibly less crazy right wing people.

Quote:

Would a crazy left wing president like . . . rely too heavily on science to inform policy?

Definitely not, they would rely on science when it supports their pre-existing beliefs or fit the narrative of their tribe. I strongly suggest you listen to the podcast I linked to above, or read the transcript.

Quote:

Would there be too little discrimination?

IDK, employment guarantees for workers or protectionist trade policies? Advocating bad policy that won't help the problem it means to solve like rent control.

I shouldn't have responded because that doesn't actually address my point, which is that the GOP is just falling for cognitive biases we all have and all fall for, just not all of us are falling quite as hard. The evidence is pretty clear on that.

The Big Dog · 14th August 2018, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by Lurch

Forgot Al Franken already? I guess the ongoing battles to defend the current Administration's repugnance by ingesting, inventing and investing in all manner of whackadoodle whatabouts does place limits on the amount of information that can be retained for quick recall.

Al Franken? was there a typo in your post then? because you wrote a "single" claim. I assume you want to go back and fix that then?

TragicMonkey · 14th August 2018, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by theprestige

We might actually have some common ground here, but with the sarcasm(?) it's hard to tell. Also, I think you may have misread my post. But again, with the sarcasm(?) it's hard to tell.

Can you try again without the sarcasm? Just your counter-argument as such?

My point was that America 1860s was a lot different from America 2010s. Our 'institutions' are both more powerful and more delicate. One buffoon with a phone really could trigger WWIII. It took decades of increasing hostility over a complex issue to cause the Civil War. WWIII can be caused by Trump Tweeting from his toilet in a rage over something said on Fox News.

theprestige · 14th August 2018, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

My point was that America 1860s was a lot different from America 2010s. Our 'institutions' are both more powerful and more delicate. One buffoon with a phone really could trigger WWIII. It took decades of increasing hostility over a complex issue to cause the Civil War. WWIII can be caused by Trump Tweeting from his toilet in a rage over something said on Fox News.

My bad. No common ground yet, after all. Unless we agree that nobody - not even you - is really taking Trump's tweets that seriously.

Ziggurat · 14th August 2018, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Fudbucker

We're supposed to not pay attention to official statements from our own President? Do you know how loony that sounds?

I don't think people should be following Twitter in general. It's a cesspit.

TragicMonkey · 14th August 2018, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by theprestige

My bad. No common ground yet, after all. Unless we agree that nobody - not even you - is really taking Trump's tweets that seriously.

Other countries seem to be taking them seriously, as are those investigating Trump as he seems to keep making damaging admissions on Twitter. The courts also agreed that a president's Tweets are official enough to fall under recordkeeping laws.

13th August 2018, 04:53 PM	#1
Fudbucker Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 8,537	Where is the Common Ground? "Wacky Omarosa, who got fired 3 times on the Apprentice, now got fired for the last time. She never made it, never will. She begged me for a job, tears in her eyes, I said Ok. People in the White House hated her. She was vicious, but not smart. I would rarely see her but heard.... While I know it’s “not presidential” to take on a lowlife like Omarosa, and while I would rather not be doing so, this is a modern day form of communication and I know the Fake News Media will be working overtime to make even Wacky Omarosa look legitimate as possible. Sorry!" Can you imagine what would have happened if Obama or Bush had said something this retarded? And this is just example A in the ongoing **** show. How can anyone take a Trump supporter seriously? What common ground does an intelligent person have with these people?
Fudbucker Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 8,537

13th August 2018, 06:12 PM	#2
Apathia Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 5,834	I'm afraid that in many cases the only common ground is superficial chatter and movie night with popcorn.
	__________________ "At the Supreme Court level where we work, 90 percent of any decision is emotional. The rational part of us supplies the reasons for supporting our predilections." Justice William O. Douglas "Humans aren't rational creatures but rationalizing creatures." Author Unknown

13th August 2018, 06:53 PM	#3
PhantomWolf Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 20,277	Seems he's getting in before her tell all book hits the shelves. From what I have heard she doesn't have any love left for Trump and so doesn't hold back, at least in one part calling Trump mentally unstable.
	__________________ It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

13th August 2018, 06:58 PM	#4
Fudbucker Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 8,537	I wonder if there are any conservatives left here who think debasing the office this much was worth a Supreme Court pick.
Fudbucker Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 8,537

13th August 2018, 07:11 PM	#5
The Big Dog Guest Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 29,742	Originally Posted by Fudbucker I wonder if there are any conservatives left here who think debasing the office this much was worth a Supreme Court pick. TWO Supreme Court justices. And counting. Now my thought is that the best way to reach common ground is to come out and let the other side know that you think they are not intelligent. Solid.
The Big Dog Guest Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 29,742

13th August 2018, 07:23 PM	#6
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 31,009	Originally Posted by Fudbucker "Wacky Omarosa, who got fired 3 times on the Apprentice, now got fired for the last time. She never made it, never will. She begged me for a job, tears in her eyes, I said Ok. People in the White House hated her. She was vicious, but not smart. I would rarely see her but heard.... While I know it’s “not presidential” to take on a lowlife like Omarosa, and while I would rather not be doing so, this is a modern day form of communication and I know the Fake News Media will be working overtime to make even Wacky Omarosa look legitimate as possible. Sorry!" Can you imagine what would have happened if Obama or Bush had said something this retarded? And this is just example A in the ongoing **** show. How can anyone take a Trump supporter seriously? What common ground does an intelligent person have with these people? And that was pretty much word for word what he heard on Fox and Friends just a few minutes earlier. He can't even rant out of his own head.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

13th August 2018, 07:30 PM	#7
Cain Straussian Join Date: May 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 14,275	President Trump is such a bleeding heart. He gave this Black woman opportunity after opportunity, but she proved she wasn't good enough to serve our favorite president.
	__________________ April 13th, 2018: Ranb: I can't think of anything useful you contributed to a thread in the last few years.

13th August 2018, 07:32 PM	#8
Tero Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: North American prairie Posts: 2,200	Things we can agree on: Ice cream good. Cancer bad. Not everybody should wear stretchy outfits for sports. Trump cheats at golf.
	__________________ I've deleted the one blog link. You can find the humor blog by searching "the kari report blogspot." Politics blog: https://esapolitics.blogspot.com/

13th August 2018, 07:35 PM	#9
rustypouch Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 6,744	Originally Posted by The Big Dog TWO Supreme Court justices. And counting. Now my thought is that the best way to reach common ground is to come out and let the other side know that you think they are not intelligent. Solid. How do you reach common ground with people who oppose you no matter the issue and not matter what you do, who refuse to acknowledge their hypocrisy, and are almost never right about anything? Like dealing with creationists, flat earthers, anti-vaxxers, etc., it's about ideology. Facts and reason do influence them. Where is the common ground?
rustypouch Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 6,744

13th August 2018, 07:40 PM	#10
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 31,706	You reach common ground by taking over all three government branches and making it illegal to disagree with the government. Republicans have taken major steps in this direction. Like TBD says, 2 SCOTUS and counting.
	__________________ 1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.

13th August 2018, 07:52 PM	#11
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 86,862	Originally Posted by Fudbucker I wonder if there are any conservatives left here who think debasing the office this much was worth a Supreme Court pick. There's a whole lot of denial going on. They tell themselves "it's the policies", they can forget/forgive the whole pile of **** that is Trump and imagine he's the magic man. The economy's good. Sure, when you inherited a good economy and you injected an unneeded stimulus tax cut into to, the facade looks rosy pink. Deficit, don't show me that. Pollution that goes with the supposed wonderful deregulation, nope, don't want to see that. Atrocious actions toward Hispanic immigrants, I'm white, I hear they broke some laws, and those Muslims, we can't have them taking over this good Christian country. That is who you are talking about that think Trump is worth it. I heard pundits today saying the amount of dishonesty and pettiness that is Trump isn't new. Other politicians were just as bad. So, they still don't accept that Trump IS NOT NORMAL.

13th August 2018, 10:03 PM	#12
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,225	Originally Posted by The Big Dog TWO Supreme Court justices. And counting. Now my thought is that the best way to reach common ground is to come out and let the other side know that you think they are not intelligent. Solid. What did you think about Trump's behavior around this hire?

13th August 2018, 11:00 PM	#13
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 17,993	I think anyone who still supports this POS after all he has done to debase the office of POTUS has lost any benefit of a doubt I might once have given them. Frankly, I have no respect for the intelligence of anyone that easily deceived by such an obvious and self-serving, loathsome toad.
	Last edited by Stacyhs; 13th August 2018 at 11:01 PM.

13th August 2018, 11:16 PM	#14
fagin Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: As far away from casebro as possible. Posts: 7,070	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward What did you think about Trump's behavior around this hire? What did you think about Trump's behaviour around this hire?
	__________________ There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

14th August 2018, 05:21 AM	#15
BobTheCoward Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 20,225	Originally Posted by fagin What did you think about Trump's behaviour around this hire? My opinion would derail this thread.

14th August 2018, 05:57 AM	#16
ahhell Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 3,402	The common ground is that we are all prone to the same cognitive biases and tribalism which is whats driving Trumps support at this point. Believe it or not, a lot of dems, probably most would line up behind a crazy loon if he managed to get elected too. Probably not as many as the GOP but still. Note the next thing is not a "What about" but rather the most obvious similar though not as extreme examples of dems forgiving the sins of their leaders even when they are quite contrary to the state ideals of most dems. Bill Clinton was a serial womanizer and had been accused of sexual assault then **** and intern in the oval office the the political party of women's rights just said, "its only sex". So the point is, the common ground is that all people are most skilled at crafting post hoc rationalizations for the decisions we mostly make with out thinking about it much first. Even we enlightened skeptics. That and he supreme court picks and a lot of his actual policy are pretty conservative regardless of the ** spewing from his mouth.
ahhell Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 3,402

14th August 2018, 06:44 AM	#17
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 48,299	Originally Posted by ahhell That and he supreme court picks and a lot of his actual policy are pretty conservative regardless of the **** spewing from his mouth. Bingo. Stop paying attention to Twitter, and politics starts seeming a lot more normal.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

14th August 2018, 07:27 AM	#18
Lurch Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Ottawa Posts: 1,648	A Democratic President behaving as a national embarrassment on the world stage (sucking up to Putin at Helsinki, caging children, kowtowing to Kim, etc., etc., etc.) would suffer serious pushback from his Party and voters. But with Trump's supporters it's "America, **** yeah!" The Dems ousted a Senator of theirs based on a single (adult) person's claims of sexual impropriety, but the Repubs elect "Grab 'em by the pussy!" Trump while he was also standing accused by more than a dozen women, and they tried to elect another creep for Senator accused of molesting teens. Indeed. Where's the common ground?

14th August 2018, 07:32 AM	#19
The Big Dog Guest Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 29,742	Originally Posted by Lurch The Dems ousted a Senator of theirs based on a single (adult) person's claims of sexual impropriety which Senator was that??
The Big Dog Guest Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 29,742

14th August 2018, 09:38 AM	#20
Apathia Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 5,834	A line in the sand: "To defy the authority of empirical evidence is to disqualify oneself as someone worthy of critical engagement in a dialogue." Tenzin Gyatso (Except dialogs about B movies, such as The Meg)
	__________________ "At the Supreme Court level where we work, 90 percent of any decision is emotional. The rational part of us supplies the reasons for supporting our predilections." Justice William O. Douglas "Humans aren't rational creatures but rationalizing creatures." Author Unknown

14th August 2018, 09:52 AM	#21
ahhell Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 3,402	Originally Posted by Lurch A Democratic President behaving as a national embarrassment on the world stage (sucking up to Putin at Helsinki, caging children, kowtowing to Kim, etc., etc., etc.) would suffer serious pushback from his Party and voters. But with Trump's supporters it's "America, **** yeah!" The Dems ousted a Senator of theirs based on a single (adult) person's claims of sexual impropriety, but the Repubs elect "Grab 'em by the pussy!" Trump while he was also standing accused by more than a dozen women, and they tried to elect another creep for Senator accused of molesting teens. Indeed. Where's the common ground? Personally, I think this overstates the rationality of Dems. You are probably right that there would be more democratic opposition to someone as loony as Trump but there would be a lot that got fully on board the crazy train. Just look at polling on American attitudes towards Russia. The parties basically switched opinion because of of Trump. (less so among dems admittedly.) There's also plenty of research that clearly shows that both liberals/dems and conservatives/reps will have more or less positive opinions on politics and ideas based solely on who they think states those opinions. https://youarenotsosmart.com/transcr...al-psychology/ Quote: There is there there’s a lot of scientists and Geoffrey Cohen — this is my favorite experiment that was ever done — he gave people a position on welfare and experimentally altered it so that either the Republicans or Democrats were saying basically the same thing on welfare. It’s an unknown issue, right? It’s welfare. And what he found was that he could get people to change their position on welfare, 100 percent, all the way to the other side of the spectrum of policy, just based on what party they were told supported that position. And the crazy thing is that after they said they supported that position, he asked them why they supported that position, and they didn’t say, “Because my party does.” They came up with other reasons. So, after being experimentally induced into holding a position that they actually didn’t agree with, they then came up with reasons that they thought they agreed with that. Again, the common ground is we all do this to some extent. It makes me quite sad that folks on a skeptics forum are so willing to ignore some basic lessons of skepticism because they hate the other tribe so much.
ahhell Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 3,402	Last edited by ahhell; 14th August 2018 at 09:55 AM.

14th August 2018, 09:58 AM	#22
WilliamSeger Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,092	Originally Posted by Ziggurat Bingo. Stop paying attention to Twitter, and politics starts seeming a lot more normal. ********, you have to stop paying attention, period.

14th August 2018, 10:08 AM	#23
The Shrike Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Oklahoma, USA Posts: 5,147	Originally Posted by ahhell Believe it or not, a lot of dems, probably most would line up behind a crazy loon if he managed to get elected too. But what would that look like? We have a crazy right wing person now being enabled by ostensibly less crazy right wing people. Would a crazy left wing president like . . . rely too heavily on science to inform policy? Would there be too little discrimination?

14th August 2018, 10:20 AM	#24
Spock Jenkins Muse Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 848	Anyone who saw any seasons of The Apprentice with Omarosa on them, I have to think, was completely baffled that he would hire her in the first place. The only reason she appeared to be on that show was the ratings her train wreck behavior drew in. The fact that she went all “Omarosa” and recorded things she shouldn’t have and is now attempting to capitalize on them should come as a shock to no one. Trump really shouldn’t have a negative thing to say about her or the situation. He basically invited it. I don’t know how he thought it would end any differently. Interesting experiment, ahhell. And no surprise. Reminds me of all the people willing to sign a petition to end the sufferage of women or to ban dihydrogen monoxide.
Spock Jenkins Muse Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 848

14th August 2018, 10:47 AM	#25
C_Felix Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Just outside Raleigh, NC Posts: 2,953	Party before country.
	__________________ Eqinsu Ocha! Eqinsu Ocha!

14th August 2018, 10:50 AM	#26
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 49,549	I thought there would be common ground agreeing that Trump is a colossal buffoon, and that the American institutions of government are more than robust enough to survive a buffoon administration. Boy, was I wrong about that. Not wrong about the strength of American institutions - they're doing just fine, obviously. But wrong about half the country being able to comprehend this.

14th August 2018, 10:52 AM	#27
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 28,207	Originally Posted by theprestige I thought there would be common ground agreeing that Trump is a colossal buffoon, and that the American institutions of government are more than robust enough to survive a buffoon administration. Boy, was I wrong about that. Not wrong about the strength of American institutions - they're doing just fine, obviously. But wrong about half the country being able to comprehend this. I'm not sure they are. We'll see after Trump fires Mueller.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

14th August 2018, 11:12 AM	#28
The_Animus Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,253	There is no common ground. The fields were burned and the ground salted because that'll show those libtards!
The_Animus Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,253	__________________ Don't feed the trolls. Just ignore them.

14th August 2018, 11:15 AM	#29
Fudbucker Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 8,537	Originally Posted by Ziggurat Bingo. Stop paying attention to Twitter, and politics starts seeming a lot more normal. We're supposed to not pay attention to official statements from our own President? Do you know how loony that sounds?
Fudbucker Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 8,537

14th August 2018, 11:21 AM	#30
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 49,549	Originally Posted by acbytesla I'm not sure they are. We'll see after Trump fires Mueller. The country has survived a Civil War with its institutions intact. Nothing that's happened in the past two years - not the tweets, not the gaffes, not the racism, not even the Russian meddling (such as it was) - rises anywhere near that level. The irony is that the Russian objective was to get Americans to give up on their national institutions. You're the one who's giving up, not me. I'm not the Russian collaborator, here.

14th August 2018, 11:21 AM	#31
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,450	Originally Posted by Fudbucker We're supposed to not pay attention to official statements from our own President? Do you know how loony that sounds? Well, if you ignore what he says and does, and how he acts, and his past actions, and his proposals for future actions, and the input of everybody who has ever worked with or encountered him, why then Trumb seems an okay guy! I can't see why you can't overcome partisan bias to admit it.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

14th August 2018, 11:23 AM	#32
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,450	Originally Posted by theprestige The country has survived a Civil War with its institutions intact. Nothing that's happened in the past two years - not the tweets, not the gaffes, not the racism, not even the Russian meddling (such as it was) - rises anywhere near that level. The irony is that the Russian objective was to get Americans to give up on their national institutions. You're the one who's giving up, not me. I'm not the Russian collaborator, here. Yes, the FCC, ICE, FBI, CIA, NPS, and Depts of Labor, Education, and Energy suffered no damage from the Civil War. Neither did NASA, or NATO, or the UN.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

14th August 2018, 11:29 AM	#33
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 49,549	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey Yes, the FCC, ICE, FBI, CIA, NPS, and Depts of Labor, Education, and Energy suffered no damage from the Civil War. Neither did NASA, or NATO, or the UN. We might actually have some common ground here, but with the sarcasm(?) it's hard to tell. Also, I think you may have misread my post. But again, with the sarcasm(?) it's hard to tell. Can you try again without the sarcasm? Just your counter-argument as such?

14th August 2018, 11:31 AM	#34
Lurch Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Ottawa Posts: 1,648	Originally Posted by The Big Dog which Senator was that?? Forgot Al Franken already? I guess the ongoing battles to defend the current Administration's repugnance by ingesting, inventing and investing in all manner of whackadoodle whatabouts does place limits on the amount of information that can be retained for quick recall.

14th August 2018, 11:33 AM	#35
ahhell Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 3,402	Originally Posted by The Shrike But what would that look like? We have a crazy right wing person now being enabled by ostensibly less crazy right wing people. Quote: Would a crazy left wing president like . . . rely too heavily on science to inform policy? Definitely not, they would rely on science when it supports their pre-existing beliefs or fit the narrative of their tribe. I strongly suggest you listen to the podcast I linked to above, or read the transcript. Quote: Would there be too little discrimination? IDK, employment guarantees for workers or protectionist trade policies? Advocating bad policy that won't help the problem it means to solve like rent control. I shouldn't have responded because that doesn't actually address my point, which is that the GOP is just falling for cognitive biases we all have and all fall for, just not all of us are falling quite as hard. The evidence is pretty clear on that.
ahhell Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 3,402	Last edited by ahhell; 14th August 2018 at 11:36 AM.