Calling Trumpistas "Stupid" May Be a Kindness They No Longer Merit - Page 6

theprestige · 1st August 2019, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by Upchurch

Are you sure about that? I wasn't necessarily talking about you.

Pretty sure.

It's not a big deal to me, though. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'd be more interested in seeing an example of someone who had serious concerns about Godwin's law, than about continuing to be right on this point.

theprestige · 1st August 2019, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by Upchurch

I can, but I won't.

'k.

The Great Zaganza · 1st August 2019, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

This thread isn't about criticism of Trump. It's criticism of Trump supporters. Did you forget?

you didn't read my post.
The fact that Trump supporters accuse everyone else of being anti-american instead of just being anti-Trump is exactly the reason why it is so hard to treat them with civility.

Allen773 · 1st August 2019, 08:42 AM

I’d like to see a direct defense of Trump’s comments here, not faux-neutral eye-rolling from the “anti-anti-Trump” crowd.

At least Foolmewunz is clear on where he stands. I can’t argue with someone who refuses to commit to anything other than chiding liberals.

Cain · 1st August 2019, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by Allen773

I’d like to see a direct defense of Trump’s comments here, not faux-neutral eye-rolling from the “anti-anti-Trump” crowd.

At least Foolmewunz is clear on where he stands. I can’t argue with someone who refuses to commit to anything other than chiding liberals.

Oh, shut up and go back to Africa.

Pterodactyl · 1st August 2019, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

There is a difference between hating the country and hating how the country is run - and no Trump supporter seems to be willing to make the distinction.
It is almost as if criticism of Trump is being equated with criticism of the nation ...

Indeed. This is a fair criticism of some ardent Trump supporters. One needn’t necessarily conflate this with racism if the critical person happens to be of minority descent or hails from another country.

theprestige · 1st August 2019, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

<snip>

Evil!

Ziggurat · 1st August 2019, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

you didn't read my post.
The fact that Trump supporters accuse everyone else of being anti-american instead of just being anti-Trump is exactly the reason why it is so hard to treat them with civility.

I did read your post. The problem is that you don't actually understand the significance of your own words. It's funny, but you're really doing exactly what you're accusing your opponents of doing: stereotyping a large and diverse group in order to justify hating all of them.

sackett · 1st August 2019, 09:28 AM

that I have to differ with you about calling the Trumph crowd evil. That’s hyperbolic, IMO. Exasperating, disgusting, laughable, proudly ignorant, destructive – hell yes, all that and a lot more adjectives. But they lack the stature to achieve genuine evil. There’s no grandeur about them; opposing them doesn’t make you proud. The evil men abroad in the country right now are not the sorry Trumpist lot we see and hear, chanting their slogans and waving their stars, bars, and (sometimes) swastikas.

You and I feel much the same way when we contemplate the lumpen-trumpen: angry and revolted, and perhaps alarmed when we reflect on what they might be used for. But we need to keep our heads (yes, me as much as you) and recall that the poor wretches have no power, not even the power of numbers. The really sinister types, the wealthy, the ideologues wielding influence, will never, ever, share power with anyone – especially not with the poor.

One more thing we should keep in mind, I think: not every Trump fan is an absolute Trumpanzee, lost to all reason, incapable of reflection, beyond the reach of better feeling. They can wake from their ugly dream, and see its ugliness. God bless their dirty hearts, they’re still our fellow-citizens; underestimating the citizens of a democracy is always unwise.

WilliamSeger · 1st August 2019, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by theprestige

Telling people who don't like the country that they should leave isn't racist, though.

That's NOT what Trump said in the tweet that triggered all this. That's just another ******** rewrite of what he actually said -- go back and read it. Like every other time he's said something racially offensive, the turd polishers are so happy to interpret what he "really" meant, but what he actually said was that the Squad shouldn't be telling "the people of the United States" how to run "our" government when their "countries of origin" are such horrible "infested" places, they should go back and fix those. He doesn't think we should take in any immigrants at all from ****-hole countries, so of course he doesn't think they should be allowed to participate in "our" government. It was a stunning display of ignorance and stupidity about three of the Squad, of course, and after his people informed him, he had to pretend that it was because they "hate America," not because of their ****-hole countries of origin. Some extremely stupid people will buy that, and some extremely disingenuous people will once again let Trump slide.

theprestige · 1st August 2019, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by Allen773

I’d like to see a direct defense of Trump’s comments here, not faux-neutral eye-rolling from the “anti-anti-Trump” crowd.

There were direct defenses in the thread where those comments were actually discussed.

This thread is about dismissing all of that as "evil".

Which, for some reason, FMW seems to believe is a breakthrough in political discourse.

Ziggurat · 1st August 2019, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by theprestige

There were direct defenses in the thread where those comments were actually discussed.

This thread is about dismissing all of that as "evil".

Which, for some reason, FMW seems to believe is a breakthrough in political discourse.

I have to disagree on that last point. I think the entire purpose of such a thread is to signal membership in good standing with one's tribe. Not only is this discourse not novel, but that lack of novelty is part of the very purpose.

The Great Zaganza · 1st August 2019, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

I did read your post. The problem is that you don't actually understand the significance of your own words. It's funny, but you're really doing exactly what you're accusing your opponents of doing: stereotyping a large and diverse group in order to justify hating all of them.

I don't think so.
First of all, I only hate Trump and his direct enablers. With Trump supporters, I am merely exasperated. The fact that you and others portray criticism of Trump supporters as hate is stereotyping, and plainly wrong.

I haven't met a Trump supporter who isn't either authoritarian (i.e. no criticism of the Commander in Chief allowed) or isn't engaged in Special Pleading ( you can't judge Trump by the historical rules of correctness).
They might all be diverse, but I can despise the behavior they all have in common - that doesn't mean I despise them as individuals or as a group.
So stop stereotyping me, please.

Ziggurat · 1st August 2019, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

I don't think so.
First of all, I only hate Trump and his direct enablers. With Trump supporters, I am merely exasperated. The fact that you and others portray criticism of Trump supporters as hate is stereotyping, and plainly wrong.

You weren't talking about criticizing Trump supporters. You were talking about treating them uncivilly, and justifying doing so.

Quote:

So stop stereotyping me, please.

Nothing I've said about you has anything to do with any group characteristics. It's only been about you as an individual. You can try to argue I'm wrong, but it's laughable on its face that I'm the one stereotyping.

Upchurch · 1st August 2019, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

I have to disagree on that last point. I think the entire purpose of such a thread is to signal membership in good standing with one's tribe. Not only is this discourse not novel, but that lack of novelty is part of the very purpose.

Well, that's a vast over-simplification with, perhaps, a touch of projection. It ignores the central premise that Trump is even less of an unknown quantity than he was in 2016. There cannot reasonably be any feigning ignorance of what Trump is doing. Although, I would argue that one could be in a state of being profoundly misinformed.

Ziggurat · 1st August 2019, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by Upchurch

Well, that's a vast over-simplification with, perhaps, a touch of projection.

That's an ironic complaint, given this entire thread.

The Great Zaganza · 1st August 2019, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

You weren't talking about criticizing Trump supporters. You were talking about treating them uncivilly, and justifying doing so.

treating someone without civility (especially when they treat you that way first) isn't the same as hating them.

I hope you will acknowledge that.

Ziggurat · 1st August 2019, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

treating someone without civility (especially when they treat you that way first) isn't the same as hating them.

I hope you will acknowledge that.

It's not the same thing as criticizing them either, is it?

ponderingturtle · 1st August 2019, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

treating someone without civility (especially when they treat you that way first) isn't the same as hating them.

I hope you will acknowledge that.

But pointing out Trumps racism is exactly what you can't do. That makes them racists or comfortable around racists and that is worse than saying you hate them, as it is calling their morals into question. That is why nothing he can do can possibly be called racist.

The Great Zaganza · 1st August 2019, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

It's not the same thing as criticizing them either, is it?

No.
Since I made it clear what I criticize. And when in return I am called a hater or in effect crazy, I do happen to react less than civil.
But I don't tell Trump supporters to leave the country when it is obvious that they hate a majority of the population because they don't agree with them.

Upchurch · 1st August 2019, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by theprestige

'k.

Well, that's just sad. Not even going to pretend at critical thinking?

Ziggurat · 1st August 2019, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

No.
Since I made it clear what I criticize.

The issue isn't what you were criticizing. It's that you were justifying doing something other than criticism. And you can't defend that on the basis that criticism is acceptable.

theprestige · 1st August 2019, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by Upchurch

Well, that's just sad. Not even going to pretend at critical thinking?

Evil! Remember?

Upchurch · 1st August 2019, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by theprestige

Evil! Remember?

Cherry picking, too. Guess it beats having to self-reflect.

The Great Zaganza · 1st August 2019, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

The issue isn't what you were criticizing. It's that you were justifying doing something other than criticism. And you can't defend that on the basis that criticism is acceptable.

again, I did that - on the basis of Reciprocity.

theprestige · 1st August 2019, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Upchurch

Cherry picking, too. Guess it beats having to self-reflect.

My reflection comes back EVIL.

TragicMonkey · 1st August 2019, 10:54 AM

I can't dig out the quotation right now but Will Cuppy once wrote that hating people makes no sense because they don't care a bit, they're too mean to care.

theprestige · 1st August 2019, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

I can't dig out the quotation right now but Will Cuppy once wrote that hating people makes no sense because they don't care a bit, they're too mean to care.

Too evil to care, probably.

TragicMonkey · 1st August 2019, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by theprestige

Too evil to care, probably.

What people call evil is really just selfishness, most of the time.

Allen773 · 1st August 2019, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by theprestige

There were direct defenses in the thread where those comments were actually discussed.

This thread is about dismissing all of that as "evil".

Which, for some reason, FMW seems to believe is a breakthrough in political discourse.

So in other words, you have nothing.

theprestige · 1st August 2019, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

What people call evil is really just selfishness, most of the time.

Whatevs. Tell it to FMW, if you think it's important.

theprestige · 1st August 2019, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by Allen773

So in other words, you have nothing.

I mean, I have EVIL. So there's that.

Allen773 · 1st August 2019, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by theprestige

I mean, I have EVIL. So there's that.

I wouldn’t call disingenuous trolling “evil”, necessarily.

TragicMonkey · 1st August 2019, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by theprestige

Whatevs. Tell it to FMW, if you think it's important.

There's no need to be rude to me, I haven't called you evil or selfish. I do think you're a bit of a crabby bunny lately, though. I advise treating yourself to a nice dinner and binge-watching Netflix. Have you seen "Dark"? It's pretty good.

Allen773 · 1st August 2019, 11:34 AM

Netflix and chill.

Wait a minute, wrong site. I thought this was Christian Mingle.

Ziggurat · 1st August 2019, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Have you seen "Dark"? It's pretty good.

I tried watching it a while ago. For some reason, the descriptive audio was the only thing I could get. Very distracting, couldn't keep watching. I might try again, though.

Have you seen American Vandal? That was great.

theprestige · 1st August 2019, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Allen773

I wouldn’t call disingenuous trolling “evil”, necessarily.

Fair enough.

theprestige · 1st August 2019, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

There's no need to be rude to me, I haven't called you evil or selfish. I do think you're a bit of a crabby bunny lately, though. I advise treating yourself to a nice dinner and binge-watching Netflix. Have you seen "Dark"? It's pretty good.

Thanks for the feedback. I agree you are not being rude or calling me names here. Sorry for going (mildly) off on you.

My secret, Cap, is that I'm always a crabby bunny.

Mostly in this thread, though, I'm just taking the piss out of FMW's exciting announcement that it's time to start calling people "evil".

applecorped · 1st August 2019, 12:07 PM

there's always Super-evil!!!!

theprestige · 1st August 2019, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by applecorped

there's always Super-evil!!!!

It'll be interesting to see where FMW goes from here, if he has to put up with another 4 years of Trump.

1st August 2019, 08:37 AM	#203
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,640	Originally Posted by Ziggurat This thread isn't about criticism of Trump. It's criticism of Trump supporters. Did you forget? you didn't read my post. The fact that Trump supporters accuse everyone else of being anti-american instead of just being anti-Trump is exactly the reason why it is so hard to treat them with civility.
	__________________ So what are you going to do about it, huh? What would an intellectual do? What would Plato do?

1st August 2019, 08:57 AM	#205
Cain Straussian Join Date: May 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 14,275	Originally Posted by Allen773 I’d like to see a direct defense of Trump’s comments here, not faux-neutral eye-rolling from the “anti-anti-Trump” crowd. At least Foolmewunz is clear on where he stands. I can’t argue with someone who refuses to commit to anything other than chiding liberals. Oh, shut up and go back to Africa.
	__________________ April 13th, 2018: Ranb: I can't think of anything useful you contributed to a thread in the last few years.

1st August 2019, 09:24 AM	#208
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 48,299	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza you didn't read my post. The fact that Trump supporters accuse everyone else of being anti-american instead of just being anti-Trump is exactly the reason why it is so hard to treat them with civility. I did read your post. The problem is that you don't actually understand the significance of your own words. It's funny, but you're really doing exactly what you're accusing your opponents of doing: stereotyping a large and diverse group in order to justify hating all of them.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

1st August 2019, 09:28 AM	#209
sackett Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 6,367	Wellsir, FMW, I’m afraid that I have to differ with you about calling the Trumph crowd evil. That’s hyperbolic, IMO. Exasperating, disgusting, laughable, proudly ignorant, destructive – hell yes, all that and a lot more adjectives. But they lack the stature to achieve genuine evil. There’s no grandeur about them; opposing them doesn’t make you proud. The evil men abroad in the country right now are not the sorry Trumpist lot we see and hear, chanting their slogans and waving their stars, bars, and (sometimes) swastikas. You and I feel much the same way when we contemplate the lumpen-trumpen: angry and revolted, and perhaps alarmed when we reflect on what they might be used for. But we need to keep our heads (yes, me as much as you) and recall that the poor wretches have no power, not even the power of numbers. The really sinister types, the wealthy, the ideologues wielding influence, will never, ever, share power with anyone – especially not with the poor. One more thing we should keep in mind, I think: not every Trump fan is an absolute Trumpanzee, lost to all reason, incapable of reflection, beyond the reach of better feeling. They can wake from their ugly dream, and see its ugliness. God bless their dirty hearts, they’re still our fellow-citizens; underestimating the citizens of a democracy is always unwise.
	__________________ If you would learn a man's character, give him authority. If you would ruin a man's character, let him seize power.

1st August 2019, 09:47 AM	#212
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 48,299	Originally Posted by theprestige There were direct defenses in the thread where those comments were actually discussed. This thread is about dismissing all of that as "evil". Which, for some reason, FMW seems to believe is a breakthrough in political discourse. I have to disagree on that last point. I think the entire purpose of such a thread is to signal membership in good standing with one's tribe. Not only is this discourse not novel, but that lack of novelty is part of the very purpose.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

1st August 2019, 08:33 AM	#201
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 49,549	Originally Posted by Upchurch Are you sure about that? I wasn't necessarily talking about you. Pretty sure. It's not a big deal to me, though. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'd be more interested in seeing an example of someone who had serious concerns about Godwin's law, than about continuing to be right on this point.

1st August 2019, 08:36 AM	#202
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 49,549	Originally Posted by Upchurch I can, but I won't. 'k.

1st August 2019, 08:42 AM	#204
Allen773 Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Cali Four Neea Posts: 1,353	I’d like to see a direct defense of Trump’s comments here, not faux-neutral eye-rolling from the “anti-anti-Trump” crowd. At least Foolmewunz is clear on where he stands. I can’t argue with someone who refuses to commit to anything other than chiding liberals.

1st August 2019, 09:06 AM	#206
Pterodactyl Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 1,252	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza There is a difference between hating the country and hating how the country is run - and no Trump supporter seems to be willing to make the distinction. It is almost as if criticism of Trump is being equated with criticism of the nation ... Indeed. This is a fair criticism of some ardent Trump supporters. One needn’t necessarily conflate this with racism if the critical person happens to be of minority descent or hails from another country.

1st August 2019, 09:08 AM	#207
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 49,549	Originally Posted by Foolmewunz <snip> Evil!

1st August 2019, 09:34 AM	#210
WilliamSeger Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,092	Originally Posted by theprestige Telling people who don't like the country that they should leave isn't racist, though. That's NOT what Trump said in the tweet that triggered all this. That's just another ****** rewrite of what he actually said -- go back and read it. Like every other time he's said something racially offensive, the turd polishers are so happy to interpret what he "really" meant, but what he actually said was that the Squad shouldn't be telling "the people of the United States" how to run "our" government when their "countries of origin" are such horrible "infested" places, they should go back and fix those. He doesn't think we should take in any immigrants at all from -hole countries, so of course he doesn't think they should be allowed to participate in "our" government. It was a stunning display of ignorance and stupidity about three of the Squad, of course, and after his people informed him, he had to pretend that it was because they "hate America," not because of their **-hole countries of origin. Some extremely stupid people will buy that, and some extremely disingenuous people will once again let Trump slide.

1st August 2019, 09:36 AM	#211
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 49,549	Originally Posted by Allen773 I’d like to see a direct defense of Trump’s comments here, not faux-neutral eye-rolling from the “anti-anti-Trump” crowd. There were direct defenses in the thread where those comments were actually discussed. This thread is about dismissing all of that as "evil". Which, for some reason, FMW seems to believe is a breakthrough in political discourse.

1st August 2019, 09:58 AM	#213
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,640	Originally Posted by Ziggurat I did read your post. The problem is that you don't actually understand the significance of your own words. It's funny, but you're really doing exactly what you're accusing your opponents of doing: stereotyping a large and diverse group in order to justify hating all of them. I don't think so. First of all, I only hate Trump and his direct enablers. With Trump supporters, I am merely exasperated. The fact that you and others portray criticism of Trump supporters as hate is stereotyping, and plainly wrong. I haven't met a Trump supporter who isn't either authoritarian (i.e. no criticism of the Commander in Chief allowed) or isn't engaged in Special Pleading ( you can't judge Trump by the historical rules of correctness). They might all be diverse, but I can despise the behavior they all have in common - that doesn't mean I despise them as individuals or as a group. So stop stereotyping me, please.
	__________________ So what are you going to do about it, huh? What would an intellectual do? What would Plato do?

1st August 2019, 10:01 AM	#214
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 48,299	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza I don't think so. First of all, I only hate Trump and his direct enablers. With Trump supporters, I am merely exasperated. The fact that you and others portray criticism of Trump supporters as hate is stereotyping, and plainly wrong. You weren't talking about criticizing Trump supporters. You were talking about treating them uncivilly, and justifying doing so. Quote: So stop stereotyping me, please. Nothing I've said about you has anything to do with any group characteristics. It's only been about you as an individual. You can try to argue I'm wrong, but it's laughable on its face that I'm the one stereotyping.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law Last edited by Ziggurat; 1st August 2019 at 10:03 AM.

1st August 2019, 10:02 AM	#215
Upchurch Papa Funkosophy Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 32,373	Originally Posted by Ziggurat I have to disagree on that last point. I think the entire purpose of such a thread is to signal membership in good standing with one's tribe. Not only is this discourse not novel, but that lack of novelty is part of the very purpose. Well, that's a vast over-simplification with, perhaps, a touch of projection. It ignores the central premise that Trump is even less of an unknown quantity than he was in 2016. There cannot reasonably be any feigning ignorance of what Trump is doing. Although, I would argue that one could be in a state of being profoundly misinformed.
	__________________ "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe.

1st August 2019, 10:04 AM	#216
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 48,299	Originally Posted by Upchurch Well, that's a vast over-simplification with, perhaps, a touch of projection. That's an ironic complaint, given this entire thread.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

1st August 2019, 10:06 AM	#217
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,640	Originally Posted by Ziggurat You weren't talking about criticizing Trump supporters. You were talking about treating them uncivilly, and justifying doing so. treating someone without civility (especially when they treat you that way first) isn't the same as hating them. I hope you will acknowledge that.
	__________________ So what are you going to do about it, huh? What would an intellectual do? What would Plato do?

1st August 2019, 10:10 AM	#218
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 48,299	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza treating someone without civility (especially when they treat you that way first) isn't the same as hating them. I hope you will acknowledge that. It's not the same thing as criticizing them either, is it?
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

1st August 2019, 10:11 AM	#219
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,412	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza treating someone without civility (especially when they treat you that way first) isn't the same as hating them. I hope you will acknowledge that. But pointing out Trumps racism is exactly what you can't do. That makes them racists or comfortable around racists and that is worse than saying you hate them, as it is calling their morals into question. That is why nothing he can do can possibly be called racist.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

1st August 2019, 10:14 AM	#220
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,640	Originally Posted by Ziggurat It's not the same thing as criticizing them either, is it? No. Since I made it clear what I criticize. And when in return I am called a hater or in effect crazy, I do happen to react less than civil. But I don't tell Trump supporters to leave the country when it is obvious that they hate a majority of the population because they don't agree with them.
	__________________ So what are you going to do about it, huh? What would an intellectual do? What would Plato do?

1st August 2019, 10:23 AM	#221
Upchurch Papa Funkosophy Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 32,373	Originally Posted by theprestige 'k. Well, that's just sad. Not even going to pretend at critical thinking?
	__________________ "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe.

1st August 2019, 10:24 AM	#222
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 48,299	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza No. Since I made it clear what I criticize. The issue isn't what you were criticizing. It's that you were justifying doing something other than criticism. And you can't defend that on the basis that criticism is acceptable.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

1st August 2019, 10:28 AM	#223
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 49,549	Originally Posted by Upchurch Well, that's just sad. Not even going to pretend at critical thinking? Evil! Remember?

1st August 2019, 10:32 AM	#224
Upchurch Papa Funkosophy Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 32,373	Originally Posted by theprestige Evil! Remember? Cherry picking, too. Guess it beats having to self-reflect.
	__________________ "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe.

1st August 2019, 10:35 AM	#225
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,640	Originally Posted by Ziggurat The issue isn't what you were criticizing. It's that you were justifying doing something other than criticism. And you can't defend that on the basis that criticism is acceptable. again, I did that - on the basis of Reciprocity.
	__________________ So what are you going to do about it, huh? What would an intellectual do? What would Plato do?

1st August 2019, 10:36 AM	#226
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 49,549	Originally Posted by Upchurch Cherry picking, too. Guess it beats having to self-reflect. My reflection comes back EVIL.

1st August 2019, 10:54 AM	#227
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,450	I can't dig out the quotation right now but Will Cuppy once wrote that hating people makes no sense because they don't care a bit, they're too mean to care.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

1st August 2019, 11:05 AM	#228
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 49,549	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey I can't dig out the quotation right now but Will Cuppy once wrote that hating people makes no sense because they don't care a bit, they're too mean to care. Too evil to care, probably.

1st August 2019, 11:08 AM	#229
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,450	Originally Posted by theprestige Too evil to care, probably. What people call evil is really just selfishness, most of the time.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

1st August 2019, 11:10 AM	#230
Allen773 Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Cali Four Neea Posts: 1,353	Originally Posted by theprestige There were direct defenses in the thread where those comments were actually discussed. This thread is about dismissing all of that as "evil". Which, for some reason, FMW seems to believe is a breakthrough in political discourse. So in other words, you have nothing.

1st August 2019, 11:19 AM	#231
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 49,549	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey What people call evil is really just selfishness, most of the time. Whatevs. Tell it to FMW, if you think it's important.

1st August 2019, 11:20 AM	#232
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 49,549	Originally Posted by Allen773 So in other words, you have nothing. I mean, I have EVIL. So there's that.

1st August 2019, 11:25 AM	#233
Allen773 Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Cali Four Neea Posts: 1,353	Originally Posted by theprestige I mean, I have EVIL. So there's that. I wouldn’t call disingenuous trolling “evil”, necessarily.

1st August 2019, 11:27 AM	#234
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,450	Originally Posted by theprestige Whatevs. Tell it to FMW, if you think it's important. There's no need to be rude to me, I haven't called you evil or selfish. I do think you're a bit of a crabby bunny lately, though. I advise treating yourself to a nice dinner and binge-watching Netflix. Have you seen "Dark"? It's pretty good.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

1st August 2019, 11:34 AM	#235
Allen773 Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Cali Four Neea Posts: 1,353	Netflix and chill. Wait a minute, wrong site. I thought this was Christian Mingle.