Man arrested and charged over a tweet about Sir Tom Moore

Nessie · 8th February 2021, 12:48 PM

https://news.sky.com/story/captain-s...aiser-12212582

"Captain Sir Tom Moore: Man, 35, charged over alleged offensive tweet about NHS fundraiser...A 35-year-old man has been charged over an alleged offensive tweet about Captain Sir Tom Moore, police have said.
A Police Scotland spokeswoman said: "On Friday 5 February 2021, we received a report of an offensive tweet about Captain Sir Tom Moore who died on Tuesday 2 February.
"A 35-year-old man has subsequently been arrested and charged in connection with communication offences and is due to appear at Lanark Sheriff Court on Wednesday 17 February."

The tweet that resulted in the arrest is shown here;

https://twitter.com/thirdwaystan/sta...099457/photo/1

and it states "The only good brit soldier is a deed one, burn auld fella, buuuurn"

There appears to be a sectarian element to this and the animosity amongst some to the army' presence in Northern Ireland during the Troubles. Sir Tom Moore left the army at the end of WWII, so he had not connection to the Troubles.

abaddon · 8th February 2021, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Nessie

https://news.sky.com/story/captain-s...aiser-12212582

"Captain Sir Tom Moore: Man, 35, charged over alleged offensive tweet about NHS fundraiser...A 35-year-old man has been charged over an alleged offensive tweet about Captain Sir Tom Moore, police have said.
A Police Scotland spokeswoman said: "On Friday 5 February 2021, we received a report of an offensive tweet about Captain Sir Tom Moore who died on Tuesday 2 February.
"A 35-year-old man has subsequently been arrested and charged in connection with communication offences and is due to appear at Lanark Sheriff Court on Wednesday 17 February."

The tweet that resulted in the arrest is shown here;

https://twitter.com/thirdwaystan/sta...099457/photo/1

and it states "The only good brit soldier is a deed one, burn auld fella, buuuurn"

There appears to be a sectarian element to this and the animosity amongst some to the army' presence in Northern Ireland during the Troubles. Sir Tom Moore left the army at the end of WWII, so he had not connection to the Troubles.

Neither does the wingnut who tweeted. This happened in Scotland. How you managed to connect imaginary dots to Northern Ireland and/or the troubles is a mystery.

Samson · 8th February 2021, 03:15 PM

This guy will be unpleasantly surprised at his arrest and charge. Typically this will result in years of pain and stress for a lot of people, with any outcome. I hope society gets value from this, but I sure can't see it.

Metullus · 8th February 2021, 04:26 PM

What is the offence?

The Atheist · 8th February 2021, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by Nessie

There appears to be a sectarian element to this and the animosity amongst some to the army' presence in Northern Ireland during the Troubles. Sir Tom Moore left the army at the end of WWII, so he had not connection to the Troubles.

The reasons why he might have done it are irrelevant, really.

The fact of him being charged is an absurdity.

Edited by zooterkin:

<SNIP>
Response to off topic post removed.

Darat · 8th February 2021, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by abaddon

Neither does the wingnut who tweeted. This happened in Scotland. How you managed to connect imaginary dots to Northern Ireland and/or the troubles is a mystery.

They are historically intertwined and they are still bed fellows today. Coincidentally this article was in my news feed today: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/s...onour-23458165

“…. Grandad Billy McPeake - a prominent Republican and Scottish independence activist from the city’s east end - was laid to rest with Scotland and Republic of Ireland flags draped over his coffin.

Men and women from the Friends Of Irish Republican Prisoners Welfare Association (IRPWA) Scotland - a dissident republican organisation which supports republican prisoners and has been linked to Saoradh, the political wing of the New IRA - were filmed as they flanked the hearse. ….”

Darat · 8th February 2021, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by Nessie

https://news.sky.com/story/captain-s...aiser-12212582

"Captain Sir Tom Moore: Man, 35, charged over alleged offensive tweet about NHS fundraiser...A 35-year-old man has been charged over an alleged offensive tweet about Captain Sir Tom Moore, police have said.
A Police Scotland spokeswoman said: "On Friday 5 February 2021, we received a report of an offensive tweet about Captain Sir Tom Moore who died on Tuesday 2 February.
"A 35-year-old man has subsequently been arrested and charged in connection with communication offences and is due to appear at Lanark Sheriff Court on Wednesday 17 February."

The tweet that resulted in the arrest is shown here;

https://twitter.com/thirdwaystan/sta...099457/photo/1

and it states "The only good brit soldier is a deed one, burn auld fella, buuuurn"
…snip…

I’d like to see more details - as the story is reported it the charging is disproportionate and although it is in the Scottish system the various rulings from the UK Supreme Court will cover this as they have been a matter of human rights (freedom of expression).

Vixen · 9th February 2021, 03:02 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

They are historically intertwined and they are still bed fellows today. Coincidentally this article was in my news feed today: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/s...onour-23458165

“…. Grandad Billy McPeake - a prominent Republican and Scottish independence activist from the city’s east end - was laid to rest with Scotland and Republic of Ireland flags draped over his coffin.

Men and women from the Friends Of Irish Republican Prisoners Welfare Association (IRPWA) Scotland - a dissident republican organisation which supports republican prisoners and has been linked to Saoradh, the political wing of the New IRA - were filmed as they flanked the hearse. ….”

When I visited someone in Glasgow a few years back, I was quite surprised to see an Orange band suddenly appear from around the corner. I was assured this was a normal sight in those parts.

Vixen · 9th February 2021, 03:04 AM

Originally Posted by Samson

This guy will be unpleasantly surprised at his arrest and charge. Typically this will result in years of pain and stress for a lot of people, with any outcome. I hope society gets value from this, but I sure can't see it.

If someone reports a crime then the police are obliged to investigate. Somebody clearly reported this and the police and CPS (or Scottish version thereof) on balance decided there were enough grounds for a successful conviction under the Communications Act.

One suspects there is more to this than meets the eye.

Jack by the hedge · 9th February 2021, 03:20 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

When I visited someone in Glasgow a few years back, I was quite surprised to see an Orange band suddenly appear from around the corner. I was assured this was a normal sight in those parts.

On one day a year it is. Or was; I left years ago. Might gain a bit of a resurgence post-Brexit. Now one part of Ireland is outside the EU and the rest is inside suddenly the border is unfinished business again.

Samson · 9th February 2021, 03:37 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

If someone reports a crime then the police are obliged to investigate. Somebody clearly reported this and the police and CPS (or Scottish version thereof) on balance decided there were enough grounds for a successful conviction under the Communications Act.

One suspects there is more to this than meets the eye.

It may be like the Christchurch mosque aftermath.
There were not charges just for actions out of context.
Rolfe is a good cultural litmus on matters Scottish so I will demurr also of course to Nessie.

Nessie · 9th February 2021, 04:34 AM

Originally Posted by abaddon

Neither does the wingnut who tweeted. This happened in Scotland. How you managed to connect imaginary dots to Northern Ireland and/or the troubles is a mystery.

Sectarianism is still a problem in Scotland, in particular around the Old Firm and when they play, separate ferries are used to transport Rangers and Celtic fans from Northern Ireland to see the games to avoid clashes.

I am surmising due to the photo of a male in a Celtic strip and the wording of the tweet, that the arrest is being treated as a sectarian hate crime.

Nessie · 9th February 2021, 04:42 AM

Originally Posted by Metullus

What is the offence?

There has been a lot of changes and debate in Scotland over hate crimes. I am not sure which offence it is, but it is likely to be;

https://www.gov.scot/publications/in...eport/pages/7/

" Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003

6.11. The main offence which is specifically directed at online communications is the improper use of a public electronic communications network, contrary to section 127 of the Communications Act 2003. The offence may be committed in two ways. The first alternative is if a person sends a message or other matter by public electronic communications network that is grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character, or causes such a message or material to be sent...."

Ian Osborne · 10th February 2021, 10:28 AM

What a ridiculous charge. Can I now make a list of everything Boris has said that I personally found offensive and get him arrested for them?

It's difficult to sympathise with the prat who made the tweet, but nicking him for it is way over the top.

catsmate · 11th February 2021, 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by Vixen

When I visited someone in Glasgow a few years back, I was quite surprised to see an Orange band suddenly appear from around the corner. I was assured this was a normal sight in those parts.

That depends on what part of Glasgow. But then much of the city is a ****-hole.

psionl0 · 12th February 2021, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by Ian Osborne

Can I now make a list of everything Boris has said that I personally found offensive and get him arrested for them?

I'm betting that if somebody finds this question offensive then you could be arrested and charged for making this post.

The Common Potato · 13th February 2021, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by Ian Osborne

What a ridiculous charge. Can I now make a list of everything Boris has said that I personally found offensive and get him arrested for them?

It's difficult to sympathise with the prat who made the tweet, but nicking him for it is way over the top.

Boris: Crikey!

Nessie · 13th February 2021, 01:18 PM

The bar for grossly offensive in the Comms Act is very high. It has to be seriously offensive, the kind of thing that would result in a ban or suspension from this forum or many forms of social media account.

Ron Obvious · 13th February 2021, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Nessie

The bar for grossly offensive in the Comms Act is very high. It has to be seriously offensive, the kind of thing that would result in a ban or suspension from this forum or many forms of social media account.

And that's fine, but a crime?...

The Atheist · 13th February 2021, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by Ron Obvious

And that's fine, but a crime?...

The Poms have a terrible history of acting far too late, and then going way too far when they finally do something.

I find him being charged a lot more offensive than the Tweet about Captain Tom.

dudalb · 13th February 2021, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

I’d like to see more details - as the story is reported it the charging is disproportionate and although it is in the Scottish system the various rulings from the UK Supreme Court will cover this as they have been a matter of human rights (freedom of expression).

Unless it is a threat of violence or urging others to violence, ,this is a clear attack on freedom of speech.and the law allowing this sucks.

dudalb · 13th February 2021, 05:17 PM

And that tweet is par for the course in IRA circles.
What next? Somebody in Glasgow gets arrested for singing "Boys from the Counry Cork" or "Come Out, you BLack and Tans: or a few dozen others classic irish Rebel ballads?

Nessie · 17th February 2021, 01:35 PM

The wording of the charge;

https://news.stv.tv/west-central/man...oore-tweet?top

"On February 3 2021 at Waverly Court, Lanark, you Joseph Kelly did cause to be sent by means of a public electronic communications network a post to the public using social media that was grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character, and that did utter offensive remarks about Captain Sir Tom Moore, now deceased"

The Atheist · 17th February 2021, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by Nessie

... and that did utter offensive remarks about Captain Sir Tom Moore, now deceased"

That should not be where the bar is set.

theprestige · 17th February 2021, 02:34 PM

I don't know what's more depressing: That lèse-majesté is still a crime in the UK, or that its protections extend even to military officers.

angrysoba · 17th February 2021, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

And that tweet is par for the course in IRA circles.
What next? Somebody in Glasgow gets arrested for singing "Boys from the Counry Cork" or "Come Out, you BLack and Tans: or a few dozen others classic irish Rebel ballads?

Probably. I seem to recall hearing that people singing sectarian songs at football matches between Celtic and Rangers can be arrested:

Quote:

ROOKIE police are being taught sectarian songs – so they know who to arrest at Sunday’s Old Firm match.

Officers who have never policed the fixture have learnt the words to hate-filled anthems such as Billy Boys and the Ibrox Disaster Song after their bosses vowed that any bigoted behaviour at the League Cup semi-final would not be tolerated.

In December 2011, a list of banned songs were banned for being sectarian and fans were warned to stop belting them out.

As well as songs such as the Famine Song and Glasgow Celtic IRA, any chants which refer to dead players such as Celtic winger Johnny Doyle or Rangers legend Davie Cooper have also been outlawed.

Songs which have been deemed acceptable are The Fields of Athenry and The Soldiers’ Song, both favoured by Celtic fans, as well as Rangers fans’ anthems The Sash and The Cry is No Surrender.

Link

The Atheist · 17th February 2021, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

Probably. I seem to recall hearing that people singing sectarian songs at football matches between Celtic and Rangers can be arrested:

How long before the Barmy Army gets arrested for singing "If your grandad was deported, clap your hands" at cricket matches?

I gotta say, these are the kind of laws I deliberately break, because they're so stupid. For possibly the first time, I wish I were in the UK.

Nobody tell Holland or France:

Originally Posted by Dutch National Anthem

Nothing so moves my pity
As seeing through these lands,
Field, village, town and city
Pillaged by roving hands.
O that the Spaniards rape thee,

Originally Posted by La Marseillaise

Let’s march, let’s march
That their impure blood
Should water our fields

Nessie · 18th February 2021, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

That should not be where the bar is set.

Whilst the wording of the S127 charge is vague, in Scotland, the original charge for all acts offensive was the common law breach of the peace, which is still in use today.

A breach of the peace is any act liable to cause alarm, fear or distress and disturb the peace. The most common forms of the charge are "... did shout, swear, conduct yourself in a disorderly manner and commit a breach of the peace” or "... did shout, swear, conduct yourself in a disorderly manner and engage in a stand up fight and commit a breach of the peace”

Case law has gone into great detail about what is reasonable and what acts go beyond being annoying or offensive and become a genuine cause of fear, alarm or distress.

The Atheist · 18th February 2021, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Nessie

Whilst the wording of the S127 charge is vague, in Scotland, the original charge for all acts offensive was the common law breach of the peace, which is still in use today.

I wasn't asking what the law is, I'm saying it's idiotic.

Vixen · 18th February 2021, 03:13 PM

I'm guessing it may have been Capt. Tom Moore's granddaughter who reported it, as she has recently given an interview about the 'vile trolls', whose vitriol she had to hide from her granddad for fear of upsetting him.

I am glad this vile creature has had his collar felt by Inspector Knacker of the Sheriff's Office. Far too many people indulge in gratuitous and specious hate speech which can be very hurtful to the innocent party at the other end of it.

It is one thing to jeer, as we have become used to as 'free speech' but a line should be drawn at violent invective designed to cause personal distress to a grieving relative.

welshdean · 18th February 2021, 03:29 PM

Tasteless? Absolutely.
A crime. Absolutely not.

I mean let's be fair, all the old git did was go for a stroll around the garden.

Darat · 18th February 2021, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

I wasn't asking what the law is, I'm saying it's idiotic.

Most countries have similar legislation. What's idiotic in this case is thinking the law applies to the mild tweet, it doesn't.

Our law lords and now supreme court (which since this is a matter of human rights is the supreme Court in Scotland as well) have made it very clear that the bar is set much higher than this tweet.

Idiotic police and idiotic prosecutor.

Idiotic law, not so much.

Darat · 18th February 2021, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by welshdean

Tasteless? Absolutely.
A crime. Absolutely not.

I mean let's be fair, all the old git did was go for a stroll around the garden.

Very slowly.

The Atheist · 18th February 2021, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

Idiotic police and idiotic prosecutor.

Idiotic law, not so much.

Ok, I'll buy that, but I'll be keeping an eye on it, because there's a very large element who would make it where the bar sits, if they could.

Darat · 18th February 2021, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Ok, I'll buy that, but I'll be keeping an eye on it, because there's a very large element who would make it where the bar sits, if they could.

Thankfully precedents have been set.

When we started to add the so called "hate speech" and such into our legislation I was very worried at the possible restrictions to freedom of expression. (There will be plenty of examples in the threads here where I expressed my concerns.) Most unusually (I'm being a tad cynical) the stuffed shirts in the courts constrained the broadly worded legislation so the slippery slope never materialised - albeit lots of people seem to like to think it did.

One of my favourites was when one of the courts told the police that someone using the f word was not a breach http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1295914.stm

theprestige · 18th February 2021, 04:04 PM

What did this guy do, that was prompting so much hate? Is he the UK's Leftenant Calley, or something?

Darat · 18th February 2021, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

What did this guy do, that was prompting so much hate? Is he the UK's Leftenant Calley, or something?

At least in the media I read I've seen very little that is even critical of him never mind anything that could be described as "so much hate".

He was an elderly man who decided to raise some charity money for his cause, as they say these days it went viral and he ended up raising tens of millions.

p0lka · 18th February 2021, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by Metullus

What is the offence?

hurting someone's feelings seems to be the go to offence, atm.

angrysoba · 18th February 2021, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

What did this guy do, that was prompting so much hate? Is he the UK's Leftenant Calley, or something?

Does anyone have to actually do anything hate-worthy to be hated?

Basically, if someone becomes well-known for any reason whatsoever, you know that there are going to be some POSs who will decide to spew their ****.

Ian Osborne · 19th February 2021, 02:32 AM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

Does anyone have to actually do anything hate-worthy to be hated?

Basically, if someone becomes well-known for any reason whatsoever, you know that there are going to be some POSs who will decide to spew their ****.

Spot on.

8th February 2021, 12:48 PM	#1
Nessie Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 13,000	Man arrested and charged over a tweet about Sir Tom Moore https://news.sky.com/story/captain-s...aiser-12212582 "Captain Sir Tom Moore: Man, 35, charged over alleged offensive tweet about NHS fundraiser...A 35-year-old man has been charged over an alleged offensive tweet about Captain Sir Tom Moore, police have said. A Police Scotland spokeswoman said: "On Friday 5 February 2021, we received a report of an offensive tweet about Captain Sir Tom Moore who died on Tuesday 2 February. "A 35-year-old man has subsequently been arrested and charged in connection with communication offences and is due to appear at Lanark Sheriff Court on Wednesday 17 February." The tweet that resulted in the arrest is shown here; https://twitter.com/thirdwaystan/sta...099457/photo/1 and it states "The only good brit soldier is a deed one, burn auld fella, buuuurn" There appears to be a sectarian element to this and the animosity amongst some to the army' presence in Northern Ireland during the Troubles. Sir Tom Moore left the army at the end of WWII, so he had not connection to the Troubles.
	__________________ Audiophile/biker/sceptic

8th February 2021, 02:33 PM	#2
abaddon Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Republic of Ireland Posts: 21,300	Originally Posted by Nessie https://news.sky.com/story/captain-s...aiser-12212582 "Captain Sir Tom Moore: Man, 35, charged over alleged offensive tweet about NHS fundraiser...A 35-year-old man has been charged over an alleged offensive tweet about Captain Sir Tom Moore, police have said. A Police Scotland spokeswoman said: "On Friday 5 February 2021, we received a report of an offensive tweet about Captain Sir Tom Moore who died on Tuesday 2 February. "A 35-year-old man has subsequently been arrested and charged in connection with communication offences and is due to appear at Lanark Sheriff Court on Wednesday 17 February." The tweet that resulted in the arrest is shown here; https://twitter.com/thirdwaystan/sta...099457/photo/1 and it states "The only good brit soldier is a deed one, burn auld fella, buuuurn" There appears to be a sectarian element to this and the animosity amongst some to the army' presence in Northern Ireland during the Troubles. Sir Tom Moore left the army at the end of WWII, so he had not connection to the Troubles. Neither does the wingnut who tweeted. This happened in Scotland. How you managed to connect imaginary dots to Northern Ireland and/or the troubles is a mystery.
	__________________ Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes...

8th February 2021, 03:15 PM	#3
Samson Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 9,388	This guy will be unpleasantly surprised at his arrest and charge. Typically this will result in years of pain and stress for a lot of people, with any outcome. I hope society gets value from this, but I sure can't see it.
Samson Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 9,388

8th February 2021, 04:26 PM	#4
Metullus Forum ¾-Wit Pro Tem Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 5,148	What is the offence?
	__________________ I have met Tim at TAM. He is of sufficient height to piss on your leg. - Doubt 10/7/2005 - I'll miss Tim. Aristotle taught that the brain exists merely to cool the blood and is not involved in the process of thinking. This is true only of certain persons. - Will Cuppy

8th February 2021, 05:38 PM	#6
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,021	Originally Posted by abaddon Neither does the wingnut who tweeted. This happened in Scotland. How you managed to connect imaginary dots to Northern Ireland and/or the troubles is a mystery. They are historically intertwined and they are still bed fellows today. Coincidentally this article was in my news feed today: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/s...onour-23458165 “…. Grandad Billy McPeake - a prominent Republican and Scottish independence activist from the city’s east end - was laid to rest with Scotland and Republic of Ireland flags draped over his coffin. Men and women from the Friends Of Irish Republican Prisoners Welfare Association (IRPWA) Scotland - a dissident republican organisation which supports republican prisoners and has been linked to Saoradh, the political wing of the New IRA - were filmed as they flanked the hearse. ….”
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

8th February 2021, 05:46 PM	#7
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,021	Originally Posted by Nessie https://news.sky.com/story/captain-s...aiser-12212582 "Captain Sir Tom Moore: Man, 35, charged over alleged offensive tweet about NHS fundraiser...A 35-year-old man has been charged over an alleged offensive tweet about Captain Sir Tom Moore, police have said. A Police Scotland spokeswoman said: "On Friday 5 February 2021, we received a report of an offensive tweet about Captain Sir Tom Moore who died on Tuesday 2 February. "A 35-year-old man has subsequently been arrested and charged in connection with communication offences and is due to appear at Lanark Sheriff Court on Wednesday 17 February." The tweet that resulted in the arrest is shown here; https://twitter.com/thirdwaystan/sta...099457/photo/1 and it states "The only good brit soldier is a deed one, burn auld fella, buuuurn" …snip… I’d like to see more details - as the story is reported it the charging is disproportionate and although it is in the Scottish system the various rulings from the UK Supreme Court will cover this as they have been a matter of human rights (freedom of expression).
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

9th February 2021, 03:02 AM	#8
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 20,848	Originally Posted by Darat They are historically intertwined and they are still bed fellows today. Coincidentally this article was in my news feed today: https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/s...onour-23458165 “…. Grandad Billy McPeake - a prominent Republican and Scottish independence activist from the city’s east end - was laid to rest with Scotland and Republic of Ireland flags draped over his coffin. Men and women from the Friends Of Irish Republican Prisoners Welfare Association (IRPWA) Scotland - a dissident republican organisation which supports republican prisoners and has been linked to Saoradh, the political wing of the New IRA - were filmed as they flanked the hearse. ….” When I visited someone in Glasgow a few years back, I was quite surprised to see an Orange band suddenly appear from around the corner. I was assured this was a normal sight in those parts.
	__________________ Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder, vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!

9th February 2021, 03:04 AM	#9
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 20,848	Originally Posted by Samson This guy will be unpleasantly surprised at his arrest and charge. Typically this will result in years of pain and stress for a lot of people, with any outcome. I hope society gets value from this, but I sure can't see it. If someone reports a crime then the police are obliged to investigate. Somebody clearly reported this and the police and CPS (or Scottish version thereof) on balance decided there were enough grounds for a successful conviction under the Communications Act. One suspects there is more to this than meets the eye.
	__________________ Blott en dag, ett ögonblick i sänder, vilken tröst, vad än som kommer på!

9th February 2021, 03:20 AM	#10
Jack by the hedge Safely Ignored Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 10,869	Originally Posted by Vixen When I visited someone in Glasgow a few years back, I was quite surprised to see an Orange band suddenly appear from around the corner. I was assured this was a normal sight in those parts. On one day a year it is. Or was; I left years ago. Might gain a bit of a resurgence post-Brexit. Now one part of Ireland is outside the EU and the rest is inside suddenly the border is unfinished business again.

9th February 2021, 03:37 AM	#11
Samson Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 9,388	Originally Posted by Vixen If someone reports a crime then the police are obliged to investigate. Somebody clearly reported this and the police and CPS (or Scottish version thereof) on balance decided there were enough grounds for a successful conviction under the Communications Act. One suspects there is more to this than meets the eye. It may be like the Christchurch mosque aftermath. There were not charges just for actions out of context. Rolfe is a good cultural litmus on matters Scottish so I will demurr also of course to Nessie.
Samson Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 9,388	Last edited by Samson; 9th February 2021 at 03:42 AM.

9th February 2021, 04:34 AM	#12
Nessie Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 13,000	Originally Posted by abaddon Neither does the wingnut who tweeted. This happened in Scotland. How you managed to connect imaginary dots to Northern Ireland and/or the troubles is a mystery. Sectarianism is still a problem in Scotland, in particular around the Old Firm and when they play, separate ferries are used to transport Rangers and Celtic fans from Northern Ireland to see the games to avoid clashes. I am surmising due to the photo of a male in a Celtic strip and the wording of the tweet, that the arrest is being treated as a sectarian hate crime.
	__________________ Audiophile/biker/sceptic Last edited by Nessie; 9th February 2021 at 04:36 AM.

9th February 2021, 04:42 AM	#13
Nessie Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 13,000	Originally Posted by Metullus What is the offence? There has been a lot of changes and debate in Scotland over hate crimes. I am not sure which offence it is, but it is likely to be; https://www.gov.scot/publications/in...eport/pages/7/ " Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003 6.11. The main offence which is specifically directed at online communications is the improper use of a public electronic communications network, contrary to section 127 of the Communications Act 2003. The offence may be committed in two ways. The first alternative is if a person sends a message or other matter by public electronic communications network that is grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character, or causes such a message or material to be sent...."
	__________________ Audiophile/biker/sceptic

10th February 2021, 10:28 AM	#14
Ian Osborne JREF Kid Tagger Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,234	What a ridiculous charge. Can I now make a list of everything Boris has said that I personally found offensive and get him arrested for them? It's difficult to sympathise with the prat who made the tweet, but nicking him for it is way over the top.
	__________________ "Faith without doubt leads to moral arrogance, the eternal pratfall of the religiously convinced" - Joe Klein, Time magazine "The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." - Carl Sagan

11th February 2021, 06:36 AM	#15
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 23,864	Originally Posted by Vixen When I visited someone in Glasgow a few years back, I was quite surprised to see an Orange band suddenly appear from around the corner. I was assured this was a normal sight in those parts. That depends on what part of Glasgow. But then much of the city is a ****-hole.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

12th February 2021, 06:21 PM	#16
psionl0 Skeptical about skeptics Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E Posts: 17,006	Originally Posted by Ian Osborne Can I now make a list of everything Boris has said that I personally found offensive and get him arrested for them? I'm betting that if somebody finds this question offensive then you could be arrested and charged for making this post.
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13th February 2021, 01:55 AM	#17
The Common Potato Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: The Scunthorpe Problem Posts: 382	Originally Posted by Ian Osborne What a ridiculous charge. Can I now make a list of everything Boris has said that I personally found offensive and get him arrested for them? It's difficult to sympathise with the prat who made the tweet, but nicking him for it is way over the top. Boris: Crikey!

13th February 2021, 01:18 PM	#18
Nessie Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 13,000	The bar for grossly offensive in the Comms Act is very high. It has to be seriously offensive, the kind of thing that would result in a ban or suspension from this forum or many forms of social media account.
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13th February 2021, 01:23 PM	#19
Ron Obvious Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 453	Originally Posted by Nessie The bar for grossly offensive in the Comms Act is very high. It has to be seriously offensive, the kind of thing that would result in a ban or suspension from this forum or many forms of social media account. And that's fine, but a crime?...
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13th February 2021, 03:26 PM	#20
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 28,306	Originally Posted by Ron Obvious And that's fine, but a crime?... The Poms have a terrible history of acting far too late, and then going way too far when they finally do something. I find him being charged a lot more offensive than the Tweet about Captain Tom.
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13th February 2021, 05:13 PM	#21
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,334	Originally Posted by Darat I’d like to see more details - as the story is reported it the charging is disproportionate and although it is in the Scottish system the various rulings from the UK Supreme Court will cover this as they have been a matter of human rights (freedom of expression). Unless it is a threat of violence or urging others to violence, ,this is a clear attack on freedom of speech.and the law allowing this sucks.
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13th February 2021, 05:17 PM	#22
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,334	And that tweet is par for the course in IRA circles. What next? Somebody in Glasgow gets arrested for singing "Boys from the Counry Cork" or "Come Out, you BLack and Tans: or a few dozen others classic irish Rebel ballads?
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. Last edited by dudalb; 13th February 2021 at 05:19 PM.

17th February 2021, 01:35 PM	#23
Nessie Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 13,000	The wording of the charge; https://news.stv.tv/west-central/man...oore-tweet?top "On February 3 2021 at Waverly Court, Lanark, you Joseph Kelly did cause to be sent by means of a public electronic communications network a post to the public using social media that was grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character, and that did utter offensive remarks about Captain Sir Tom Moore, now deceased"
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17th February 2021, 02:29 PM	#24
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 28,306	Originally Posted by Nessie ... and that did utter offensive remarks about Captain Sir Tom Moore, now deceased" That should not be where the bar is set.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

17th February 2021, 02:34 PM	#25
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 49,650	I don't know what's more depressing: That lèse-majesté is still a crime in the UK, or that its protections extend even to military officers.

17th February 2021, 04:52 PM	#26
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 29,388	Originally Posted by dudalb And that tweet is par for the course in IRA circles. What next? Somebody in Glasgow gets arrested for singing "Boys from the Counry Cork" or "Come Out, you BLack and Tans: or a few dozen others classic irish Rebel ballads? Probably. I seem to recall hearing that people singing sectarian songs at football matches between Celtic and Rangers can be arrested: Quote: ROOKIE police are being taught sectarian songs – so they know who to arrest at Sunday’s Old Firm match. Officers who have never policed the fixture have learnt the words to hate-filled anthems such as Billy Boys and the Ibrox Disaster Song after their bosses vowed that any bigoted behaviour at the League Cup semi-final would not be tolerated. In December 2011, a list of banned songs were banned for being sectarian and fans were warned to stop belting them out. As well as songs such as the Famine Song and Glasgow Celtic IRA, any chants which refer to dead players such as Celtic winger Johnny Doyle or Rangers legend Davie Cooper have also been outlawed. Songs which have been deemed acceptable are The Fields of Athenry and The Soldiers’ Song, both favoured by Celtic fans, as well as Rangers fans’ anthems The Sash and The Cry is No Surrender. Link
	__________________ "The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

17th February 2021, 05:08 PM	#27
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 28,306	Originally Posted by angrysoba Probably. I seem to recall hearing that people singing sectarian songs at football matches between Celtic and Rangers can be arrested: How long before the Barmy Army gets arrested for singing "If your grandad was deported, clap your hands" at cricket matches? I gotta say, these are the kind of laws I deliberately break, because they're so stupid. For possibly the first time, I wish I were in the UK. Nobody tell Holland or France: Originally Posted by Dutch National Anthem Nothing so moves my pity As seeing through these lands, Field, village, town and city Pillaged by roving hands. O that the Spaniards rape thee, Originally Posted by La Marseillaise Let’s march, let’s march That their impure blood Should water our fields
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

18th February 2021, 09:48 AM	#28
Nessie Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 13,000	Originally Posted by The Atheist That should not be where the bar is set. Whilst the wording of the S127 charge is vague, in Scotland, the original charge for all acts offensive was the common law breach of the peace, which is still in use today. A breach of the peace is any act liable to cause alarm, fear or distress and disturb the peace. The most common forms of the charge are "... did shout, swear, conduct yourself in a disorderly manner and commit a breach of the peace” or "... did shout, swear, conduct yourself in a disorderly manner and engage in a stand up fight and commit a breach of the peace” Case law has gone into great detail about what is reasonable and what acts go beyond being annoying or offensive and become a genuine cause of fear, alarm or distress.
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18th February 2021, 01:09 PM	#29
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 28,306	Originally Posted by Nessie Whilst the wording of the S127 charge is vague, in Scotland, the original charge for all acts offensive was the common law breach of the peace, which is still in use today. I wasn't asking what the law is, I'm saying it's idiotic.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

18th February 2021, 03:13 PM	#30
Vixen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 20,848	I'm guessing it may have been Capt. Tom Moore's granddaughter who reported it, as she has recently given an interview about the 'vile trolls', whose vitriol she had to hide from her granddad for fear of upsetting him. I am glad this vile creature has had his collar felt by Inspector Knacker of the Sheriff's Office. Far too many people indulge in gratuitous and specious hate speech which can be very hurtful to the innocent party at the other end of it. It is one thing to jeer, as we have become used to as 'free speech' but a line should be drawn at violent invective designed to cause personal distress to a grieving relative.
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18th February 2021, 03:29 PM	#31
welshdean Heb ei fai, heb ei eni Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 3,854	Tasteless? Absolutely. A crime. Absolutely not. I mean let's be fair, all the old git did was go for a stroll around the garden.
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18th February 2021, 03:32 PM	#32
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,021	Originally Posted by The Atheist I wasn't asking what the law is, I'm saying it's idiotic. Most countries have similar legislation. What's idiotic in this case is thinking the law applies to the mild tweet, it doesn't. Our law lords and now supreme court (which since this is a matter of human rights is the supreme Court in Scotland as well) have made it very clear that the bar is set much higher than this tweet. Idiotic police and idiotic prosecutor. Idiotic law, not so much.
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18th February 2021, 03:33 PM	#33
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,021	Originally Posted by welshdean Tasteless? Absolutely. A crime. Absolutely not. I mean let's be fair, all the old git did was go for a stroll around the garden. Very slowly.
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18th February 2021, 03:34 PM	#34
The Atheist The Grammar Tyrant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 28,306	Originally Posted by Darat Idiotic police and idiotic prosecutor. Idiotic law, not so much. Ok, I'll buy that, but I'll be keeping an eye on it, because there's a very large element who would make it where the bar sits, if they could.
	__________________ The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.

18th February 2021, 03:46 PM	#35
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 97,021	Originally Posted by The Atheist Ok, I'll buy that, but I'll be keeping an eye on it, because there's a very large element who would make it where the bar sits, if they could. Thankfully precedents have been set. When we started to add the so called "hate speech" and such into our legislation I was very worried at the possible restrictions to freedom of expression. (There will be plenty of examples in the threads here where I expressed my concerns.) Most unusually (I'm being a tad cynical) the stuffed shirts in the courts constrained the broadly worded legislation so the slippery slope never materialised - albeit lots of people seem to like to think it did. One of my favourites was when one of the courts told the police that someone using the f word was not a breach http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1295914.stm
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18th February 2021, 04:04 PM	#36
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 49,650	What did this guy do, that was prompting so much hate? Is he the UK's Leftenant Calley, or something?