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6th January 2019, 12:09 AM | #41 |
Poisoned Waffles
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It seems strange that the enlightened thing to do is to support the rights of women to participate more fully in an ancient superstition, while discounting part of that superstition: yes, they should be able to go into the temple in honor of a fictional being whom they believe in, but the bit about said fictional being not wanting to see ladies between certain ages, that bit can be dismissed as out-of-date. But only that part, because if you dismiss the rest of the story then there's nothing special about the place and therefore it wouldn't matter that not everybody can go in. I think they should be allowed in, sure, but it's still a weird thing to want to.
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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6th January 2019, 01:31 AM | #42 |
Penultimate Amazing
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The restriction of women from Hindu temples is the tip of the iceberg of what women in India face. Even when we just consider the issue of menstruation, it's not like they can do anything they want except go in to a temple, for instance:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultur...ion#South_Asia
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"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov |
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6th January 2019, 04:01 AM | #43 |
Proud NWO Gatekeeper
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Except abortion and its impact on Demographics have played a key role in current Indian gender issues (Decades of sex selective abortions have poured napalm on this matter). Or am I to believe that Russia aborting its way to Demographic collapse from the 90s onwards had no impact on the country?
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6th January 2019, 04:03 AM | #44 |
Penultimate Amazing
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If you have some sort of a thesis here, about the impact of abortion on gender issues, you're going to have to actually spell it out, and preferably support it with some evidence.
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"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov |
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6th January 2019, 04:07 AM | #45 |
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6th January 2019, 07:48 AM | #46 |
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There is no Antimemetics Division. |
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6th January 2019, 08:20 AM | #47 |
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6th January 2019, 08:22 AM | #48 |
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6th January 2019, 09:21 AM | #49 |
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6th January 2019, 12:06 PM | #50 |
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Before abortions were widely available, after all, the girl babies were simply killed, whether by exposure or by pouring boiling water down their throats. Abortion's not your cause here, merely a sooner method of bringing about the effect.
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Normal is just a stereotype. |
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6th January 2019, 12:22 PM | #51 |
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If I now say "dominoes", you won't think "pizza". Will you? - FireGarden on the Middle East |
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6th January 2019, 12:37 PM | #52 |
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6th January 2019, 01:22 PM | #53 |
Penultimate Amazing
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It's not a minority culture in India where this is taking place - not to mention that country's population outnumbers any western country by a large margin.
And even if it were a minority, there's no rule on the left that intolerance, much less violent oppression, has to be tolerated. Even the most left-wing states don't tolerate FGM in the name of diversity, for instance. |
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6th January 2019, 02:20 PM | #54 |
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6th January 2019, 03:20 PM | #55 |
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Normal is just a stereotype. |
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6th January 2019, 05:11 PM | #56 |
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"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov |
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6th January 2019, 05:16 PM | #57 |
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"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov |
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6th January 2019, 06:04 PM | #58 |
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"There's vastly more truth to be found in rocks than in holy books. Rocks are far superior, in fact, because you can DEMONSTRATE the truth found in rocks. Plus, they're pretty. Holy books are just heavy." - Dinwar "Let your ears hear this beautiful song that's hiding underneath the sound," Ed Kowalczyk. |
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6th January 2019, 06:18 PM | #59 |
Nasty Woman
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6th January 2019, 06:25 PM | #60 |
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I started with 'the story is newsworthy and asked if CNN was ignoring such a large population of protestors'. That is often the case with CNN, they'll show the riots but not a significantly large peaceful protest.
The women in India believe it is an important right of theirs to enter the temple. I'm not posting to discuss their religious rituals in this thread in particular. As for all the crap that certain people are trying to ruin the thread with, that is just absolutely bizarre IMO. |
6th January 2019, 06:28 PM | #61 |
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SG,
You said and then when I asked for clarification you maintained that and now you wave away rather than simply accept the correction. Of course, I am nit-picking in a way. I don't like to see gender relations painted as solely one camp acting in a terrible way (yes, I agree that their policy/beliefs/cultural attitudes are terrible). You could have said "mostly" when I asked for clarification but for some reason you not only claimed it was only men but that the news reports would show this (the one I found contradicted you) |
6th January 2019, 06:44 PM | #62 |
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"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov |
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6th January 2019, 06:46 PM | #63 |
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"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov |
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6th January 2019, 06:54 PM | #64 |
Nasty Woman
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At the time I had not seen a single woman in the extremist riot. I have since seen one woman in one photo.
What is your problem with the protesters being gender divided? The wall of women is not a wall of non-Hindu women. If there were a couple of women oppressing other women that I didn't recognize, gee, sorry I rattled some snowflakes in the thread here. Why did it bother you in the first place that I said it was extremist men protesting? Heaven forbid I falsely accuse a group of extremist men of anything. |
6th January 2019, 08:02 PM | #65 |
Penultimate Amazing
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6th January 2019, 09:19 PM | #66 |
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It's not a problem, and I agree at least based on the pictures (but probably also the actual numbers) that it is mostly men protesting.
That said, my problem is with misrepresenting the reality of the culture there. At first I was curious what you meant and then when you said it was "only men" I suspected this was false. |
6th January 2019, 09:26 PM | #67 |
Nasty Woman
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Misrepresented? Because there are a couple women among thousands of men in the hardline traditionalists Hindus that are rioting over a couple women entering the temple?
In the meantime we have this bull ****: Apparently this very strong uniting of women against the status quo, whatever the status quo happens to be disturbs a number of males on the forum. How dare I post the thread. Really? |
6th January 2019, 09:31 PM | #68 |
Nasty Woman
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If it's not a problem, why not discuss it instead of posting annoyance there are a couple women in that group and I addressed men?
I did not misrepresent anyone because I missed one woman in a photo of a mass of men rioting. If you believe the issue here is, heaven forbid, misrepresenting extremist Hindu men in India, then how about actually gathering some facts? How many hardline women are against the protest of millions of Indian women? |
6th January 2019, 11:24 PM | #69 |
Penultimate Amazing
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If you mean in other threads then sure, but I haven't seen it in this one at all, which seems to be the relevant question.
I mean, I don't see the point of getting upset at people in this thread about a viewpoint that they aren't expressing. But if you think they have expressed it here all you have to do is quote the post. I am even happy to accept an implicit rather than explicit expression of what you're talking about. SG certainly isn't tolerant of the intolerance toward women in India. NWO Sentryman certainly doesn't seem to be. Maybe the closest anyone has come to being so is TragicMonkey, but that's not quite how I read his post. Is he the person you were thinking of? |
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"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov |
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7th January 2019, 02:04 AM | #70 |
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We do these things not because they are easy, but because we thought they were going to be easy. Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos |
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7th January 2019, 02:26 AM | #71 |
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Zigggurat already explained how demographics play a role in sexism in India and China (less women than men leads to greater social frustration, and when men are an actual majority there is going to be a lot of messiness)
As for Russia, I was told that abortion empowered women and in that case surely women deciding to abort their way to a country's demographic collapse (in a country where abortion Is an immediate first resort mind you) would be the ultimate expression of said empowerment. Except it hasn't turned out that way for women hasn't it? |
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If I now say "dominoes", you won't think "pizza". Will you? - FireGarden on the Middle East |
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7th January 2019, 05:56 AM | #72 |
Penultimate Amazing
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How did you reach that conclusion? I Find that a rather extraordinary claim. Someone willing to murder an infant would almost certainly be willing to abort as well, but you’re basically saying anyone willing to abort is also willing to murder an infant, since abortion only substitutes and does not add. If that is true, the implications are quite remarkable.
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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7th January 2019, 03:37 PM | #73 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Well, the claim isn't for all abortions, only for those that would have been carried to term except for knowledge that it's female. I agree that you have a point that the subset of those will be smaller than the subset who would also engage in infanticide, though.
How much smaller is hard to say though. In China, at least, it's illegal to give information about the sex of the foetus to prospective parents, so those engaging in sex-selective abortion are already showing some degree of premeditation and special motivation to get that information. |
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"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov |
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7th January 2019, 08:52 PM | #74 |
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7th January 2019, 08:58 PM | #75 |
Cowardly Lurking in the Shadows of Greatness
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Abortion makes it available to kill the unwanted girl before she's introduced into the world. Where parents would in centuries past have been forced to wait until the child was born to determine if it was the desired boy or the unwanted girl, now they can find out earlier and clear the womb so a boy could take root. You misunderstand precisely *how* unwanted daughters are. A poor family cannot afford the expense a daughter represents.
I feel the dowry as paid from a groom to his bride's parents (or better yet, paid by parents to a new couple (which we do by fancy weddings and presents)) is a far better option, one that doesn't mean every girl comes into the world with a huge debt loaded onto her parents' shoulders. Cultures where daughters take care of aged parents, rather than sons, fare a bit better with the gender imbalance even when they see boys as preferable to girls. |
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7th January 2019, 08:58 PM | #76 |
Nasty Woman
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Clearly that is an unsupportable conclusion. Religious and societal oppression of women in India goes back thousands of years. It has nothing to do with current events.
This is even more bizarre. You were told? That's your supporting evidence? Riiiight. |
8th January 2019, 02:05 AM | #77 |
Proud NWO Gatekeeper
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But thisbcurrent iteration is being made worse by unhealthy demographics
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If I now say "dominoes", you won't think "pizza". Will you? - FireGarden on the Middle East |
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8th January 2019, 02:11 AM | #78 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov |
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8th January 2019, 08:00 AM | #79 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Your argument suggests that there should be no poor girls at all, they should all be dead by now. But that isn't happening. Clearly there's some barrier to killing baby girls, which not all poor parents get past.
We should expect that abortion lowers that barrier, and so should increase the number of girls who are killed. That certainly seems to be the case in the developed world. Now, maybe that's not the case in India (though no one has presented evidence to that effect). But if it isn't, if nobody willing to abort a girl as a fetus wasn't also willing to kill it as a baby, that would be extraordinary. And it would have some rather deep implications. You haven't actually argued that this is the case. Is that really what you believe? |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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8th January 2019, 08:04 AM | #80 |
Penultimate Amazing
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You continue to misunderstand the argument. Nobody said current events are the root of misogyny in India. But current events can still exacerbate that old problem. So it makes no sense to say that current events have nothing to do with it, especially since we're talking about current events. Of course current events can affect other current events, even if the events being affected have deep roots.
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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