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Old 9th June 2019, 03:26 PM   #81
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So now Amber Rudd has come out to back Jeremy Hunt as has Philip Hammond. As an arch remainer (Rudd) and soft Brexiteer (Hammond), one wonders if that'll be the kiss of death for Hunt amongst Tories grass roots who'll do the voting? I dare say there'll be plenty who are pro-Europe.
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Old 15th June 2019, 03:00 AM   #82
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Hard to see how it won't be Johnson. And given even those who are trying to become leader he still stands out a mile as the worse possible candidate!
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Old 15th June 2019, 03:38 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Hard to see how it won't be Johnson. And given even those who are trying to become leader he still stands out a mile as the worse possible candidate!
As a Prime Minister, I think there may be a couple in the race who might be even worse (but it's a close call), but as a means to get the Conservatives in with a comfortable majority after a snap election, he's ideal.
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Old 15th June 2019, 04:21 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Hey, an "Unlected" PM is what you get when you have a Parlimentary form of government.
Don't know hat Darat meant by that;I know the last few elections have not gone the way Darat wanted but still, short of moving to something closer to the American System the PM will contiuet to be "unelected"
What he means is that going into a general election the parties all have leaders. The leader of the party that gets the most votes becomes PM (ignoring fptp and coalition vagaries). Many people will vote for the party whose leader they like best although in practice they are actually voting for their local MP.
It is a common complaint when a PM steps down mid term and is replaced that the replacement will be 'unelected'. There has been an old Torygraph Article doing the rounds complaining of just that when Blair stood down for Brown. The author was livid that the people's PM wishes were betrayed and was adamant that a General Election was the only fair way to replace the PM. I am at a total loss to understand why Mr Boris Johnson's views have changed since he penned that article.

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Old 15th June 2019, 05:11 AM   #85
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Johnson vs Corbyn. Bloody hell. The UK has had some great PMs. These two clowns.....what can I say.
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Old 15th June 2019, 06:36 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Johnson vs Corbyn. Bloody hell. The UK has had some great PMs. These two clowns.....what can I say.
And in England a vote for any other party is unlikely to materially affect the outcome on a national level.
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Old 15th June 2019, 12:39 PM   #87
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Jeremy Hunt seems to have come on strongly. I thought he came out well. Considering he's the best of a bad lot and I never used to be able to stand him, it shows how dreadful the others must be. Stewart is too 'Remain' to have any hope, plus there was his opium revelation.
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Old 16th June 2019, 03:39 PM   #88
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tonights hustings gave some insight to the candidates, kind of. venezuela got mentioned more than scotland and wales, cuba got a shout out too!
tory membership will no doubt vote for the malfunctioning wardrobe with brain damage and a wig so a somewhat moot exercise overall, interesting to see what becomes of these reprobates in the aftermath however.
gove had a very public falling out with bojo but his wife runs the daily heil and sajid javid is the parties token muslim so they likely get top jobs somewhere. raab c brexit came across as a sociopath while hunt is still deluded enough to think he did well with the nhs so they probably have to take a timeout for a reshuffle or two. the only guy getting any public support, despite demanding brexit just not the brexit farage wants but the same brexit the others support namely a noel edmonds deal brexit, mr 18 going on 80 rory martha stewart likely takes the naughty step becoming this generations ken clarke.
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Old 22nd June 2019, 03:07 AM   #89
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Bit of argy-bargy at one of our next PM's properties last night

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKCN1TM2ML
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Old 22nd June 2019, 07:57 AM   #90
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Somebody reversed a car (probably not theirs) into his front railings when he lived near me (Colebrooke Row Islington) several years ago. He was mayor at the time. I felt considerable sympathy when I saw it and I rated him quite highly at the time (and voted for him twice which are my only two Tory votes). Once or twice I saw him jogging on the nearby Regents Canal and he said hello.

It's a different Boris now though
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Old 22nd June 2019, 03:24 PM   #91
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Boris Johnson demonstrates how Political Correctness is ultimately feelgood platitudes that get chucked out the window the moment it becomes inconvenient.
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Old 23rd June 2019, 12:59 AM   #92
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The Guardian: Video reveals Steve Bannon links to Boris Johnson

The Observer: Steve Bannon: ‘We went back and forth’ on the themes of Johnson’s big speech

Interesting to note the change in tone from Boris Johnson's team, when they realise there's a video of Bannon stating he helped him.
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Old 23rd June 2019, 07:54 AM   #93
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The police have released this photo of the neighbour who reported Boris Johnson.
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Old 23rd June 2019, 09:03 AM   #94
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Jeremy Hunt practically says, “you may very well think so. I couldn’t possibly comment...”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...e_iOSApp_Other
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Old 23rd June 2019, 04:04 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Belgian thought View Post
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ictureid=12188

The police have released this photo of the neighbour who reported Boris Johnson.
The recording apparently has Boris's girlfriend screaming at him to leave the flat, some mumbled response from him, and then her shouting "Leave means leave!"
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Old 23rd June 2019, 07:16 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
The recording apparently has Boris's girlfriend screaming at him to leave the flat, some mumbled response from him, and then her shouting "Leave means leave!"
Boxit? Joxit? BoJoxit?

Is it actually her flat, and he's just hanging out there collecting parking tickets? I was thinking of him as a slightly smarter Trump with slightly better hair. I should re-think that.
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Old 23rd June 2019, 10:12 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
Boris Johnson demonstrates how Political Correctness is ultimately feelgood platitudes that get chucked out the window the moment it becomes inconvenient.
Er, what?

Who ever accused Boris of being PC, anyway?
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Old 24th June 2019, 12:53 AM   #98
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An Old Etonian with a cultivated air of "charming" incompetence and 1930's views on domestic abuse - I think he should play this whole thing up to the max, it can only enhance his standing among Conservative members
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Old 24th June 2019, 06:18 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
An Old Etonian with a cultivated air of "charming" incompetence and 1930's views on domestic abuse - I think he should play this whole thing up to the max, it can only enhance his standing among Conservative members
That's what it is all about. Amazingly I've already heard from 1 lady over 70 that his girlfriend probably deserved it, these young girls are always giving lip!
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Old 24th June 2019, 06:31 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Er, what?

Who ever accused Boris of being PC, anyway?
Its more that political correctness has failed to stop someone like Boris from taking office. The fact that people constantly complained about it shows that it was merely lip service.
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Old 24th June 2019, 08:06 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
Its more that political correctness has failed to stop someone like Boris from taking office. The fact that people constantly complained about it shows that it was merely lip service.
You do know you are making not one iota of sense?

Perhaps you could try again to explain?
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Old 24th June 2019, 08:10 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
You do know you are making not one iota of sense?

Perhaps you could try again to explain?
So, my point was that if Boris gets into no. 10 it will forever discredit political correctness as being nothing more than a facade. This is a man who has publicly made racist and homophobic statements in the past, and that would not have stopped him from getting in. Then again, the "politically correct" liberal democrats did not walk out of coalition over the GO HOME vans.
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Old 24th June 2019, 08:51 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
So, my point was that if Boris gets into no. 10 it will forever discredit political correctness as being nothing more than a facade. This is a man who has publicly made racist and homophobic statements in the past, and that would not have stopped him from getting in. Then again, the "politically correct" liberal democrats did not walk out of coalition over the GO HOME vans.
Yea racism wins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Time for all conservatives to have a happy dance!

OF course we knew that racism is always a good way to appeal to conservative voters, see Trump.
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Old 24th June 2019, 10:23 AM   #104
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Is BJ not just the product of "political correctness gone mad"? That he is so un-PC helps to make him popular.
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Old 24th June 2019, 10:49 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Is BJ not just the product of "political correctness gone mad"? That he is so un-PC helps to make him popular.
Wouldn't that be hatred of tolerance gone mad?
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Old 24th June 2019, 11:06 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
So, my point was that if Boris gets into no. 10 it will forever discredit political correctness as being nothing more than a facade. This is a man who has publicly made racist and homophobic statements in the past, and that would not have stopped him from getting in. Then again, the "politically correct" liberal democrats did not walk out of coalition over the GO HOME vans.
Yes, enough Conservatives are racists and/or homophobes and/or have 1930s attitudes to relationships for Boris to prosper. Then again there are 160,000 or so of them and they're overwhelmingly old white males so it's hardly surprising and not a damning indictment of PC generally but rather an indication of how difficult it is to persuade that particular subset of society of its benefits..
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Old 24th June 2019, 11:10 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Yes, enough Conservatives are racists and/or homophobes and/or have 1930s attitudes to relationships for Boris to prosper. Then again there are 160,000 or so of them and they're overwhelmingly old white males so it's hardly surprising and not a damning indictment of PC generally but rather an indication of how difficult it is to persuade that particular subset of society of its benefits..
And Liberal Democrats, the purported guarantors of PC, fell in lock step when coalition conflicted with ideals. For all the talk of "Variety of dinnerplates brings people together!", it tends to get dropped at the first sign of trouble. It's just lip service at the end of the day, and talk is cheap. Or look at how Labour decided to lurch right in 2015 with "Controls on Immigration" mugs.
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Old 24th June 2019, 01:04 PM   #108
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It might actually be a good outcome for Britain if Boris is elected PM. Because imho (1) he is extremely unlikely to impress any of the EU negotiators over Brexit, so I doubt he will get any new deal from them. Then (2) if he tries to bounce the HoC into agreeing a No-deal-Exit that will also likely fail since even the Tory MP's have enough remainers to vote against a No-deal-Exit. And (3) any scenario like 1 & 2 would leave Boris looking like a floundering buffoon hopelessly out of his depth and an embarrassment in the eyes of the majority of Conservative MP's. That might also lead to (4) a general election where we find that whilst a lot of the UK public think Boris is amusing and a bit of fun, they actually do not want to elect him as PM (so Conservatives go down to a heavy defeat in a GE, and Labour wins with a narrow-ish working majority).

Of course it might not work out like that with Boris as PM (he might have more success than I expect). But I think something like the above is reasonably likely if Boris becomes PM.
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Old 24th June 2019, 01:15 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
The recording apparently has Boris's girlfriend screaming at him to leave the flat, some mumbled response from him, and then her shouting "Leave means leave!"
Nice.

Also, here's a lovely piece about your soon-to-be PM. By his former boss, so you'd say the bloke knows him pretty well.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-party-britain
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Old 24th June 2019, 03:13 PM   #110
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Interesting interview this evening with BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg (ie interview with Boris Johnson) -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48751527

To me that just looked quite clearly to be an attempted sales job from Boris with no real substance. That is – he really had no good or openly honest answers, and the whole thing was just his best attempt at a show of trying to convince viewers that at least his heart is in the right place (but not at all a convincing display it seemed to me).
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Old 24th June 2019, 03:24 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
Its more that political correctness has failed to stop someone like Boris from taking office. The fact that people constantly complained about it shows that it was merely lip service.
You do know that it's only the Tory Party that gets to vote. About 100,000 of them.
they aren't noted for being 'PC'
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Old 25th June 2019, 03:29 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
An Old Etonian with a cultivated air of "charming" incompetence and 1930's views on domestic abuse - I think he should play this whole thing up to the max, it can only enhance his standing among Conservative members
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
That's what it is all about. Amazingly I've already heard from 1 lady over 70 that his girlfriend probably deserved it, these young girls are always giving lip!
Forgive me, but are people jumping to conclusions here about who was abusing whom? (I thought I read that she was doing the screaming and he was mumbling?)

Here's one pundit who seems to be making that assumption:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a8970391.html
Quote:
It is all of our business to end male violence against women, and all forms of violence in our society. To discourage people from reporting suspected domestic violence to the police isn’t just irresponsible, it is beyond the pale.
Assumption: all domestic violence is "male violence against women".

Statistically, it's almost as likely that he was the victim.
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Old 25th June 2019, 03:38 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by IanS View Post
It might actually be a good outcome for Britain if Boris is elected PM. Because imho (1) he is extremely unlikely to impress any of the EU negotiators over Brexit, so I doubt he will get any new deal from them. Then (2) if he tries to bounce the HoC into agreeing a No-deal-Exit that will also likely fail since even the Tory MP's have enough remainers to vote against a No-deal-Exit. And (3) any scenario like 1 & 2 would leave Boris looking like a floundering buffoon hopelessly out of his depth and an embarrassment in the eyes of the majority of Conservative MP's. That might also lead to (4) a general election where we find that whilst a lot of the UK public think Boris is amusing and a bit of fun, they actually do not want to elect him as PM (so Conservatives go down to a heavy defeat in a GE, and Labour wins with a narrow-ish working majority).

Of course it might not work out like that with Boris as PM (he might have more success than I expect). But I think something like the above is reasonably likely if Boris becomes PM.
The really, really sad thing is that Corbyn would be an even more disgraceful, embarrassing and incompetent PM. The UK is ****** either way.
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Old 25th June 2019, 04:21 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
So, my point was that if Boris gets into no. 10 it will forever discredit political correctness as being nothing more than a facade. This is a man who has publicly made racist and homophobic statements in the past, and that would not have stopped him from getting in. Then again, the "politically correct" liberal democrats did not walk out of coalition over the GO HOME vans.
Political correctness (modern version) has always been a strawman, it was invented by USA right leaning folk as a strawman attack on those they considered to be to their left so of course it is nothing but "a facade.

That aside you are still not making any sense, are you unaware of who will be voting in the Tory leadership contest, a hint it won't be the Liberal Democrats?
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Old 25th June 2019, 04:22 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by NWO Sentryman View Post
And Liberal Democrats, the purported guarantors of PC, fell in lock step when coalition conflicted with ideals. For all the talk of "Variety of dinnerplates brings people together!", it tends to get dropped at the first sign of trouble. It's just lip service at the end of the day, and talk is cheap. Or look at how Labour decided to lurch right in 2015 with "Controls on Immigration" mugs.
Er "And Liberal Democrats, the purported guarantors of PC,.." by who? You?
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Old 25th June 2019, 04:27 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Forgive me, but are people jumping to conclusions here about who was abusing whom? (I thought I read that she was doing the screaming and he was mumbling?)



Here's one pundit who seems to be making that assumption:

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a8970391.html



Assumption: all domestic violence is "male violence against women".



Statistically, it's almost as likely that he was the victim.
We were talking about people's perceptions, which often are at odds with reality. Johnson actually typifies this.
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Old 25th June 2019, 04:47 AM   #117
IanS
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
The really, really sad thing is that Corbyn would be an even more disgraceful, embarrassing and incompetent PM. The UK is ****** either way.


People criticise or praise various different political figures for all sorts of reasons (fair & unfair). But I don't think it's credible to say that Corbyn is an embarrassing incompetent buffoon in the way Boris is.

Corbyn already held talks with the senior 4 or 5 EU negotiators just before Mr's May's final meeting with them, and the comments from the EU negotiators were all positive and supportive of their talks with Corbyn. So on that basis, I think Corbyn would be far more likely to be able to agree an Exit deal with EU. I think Corbyn's politics (and Labour politics in general) are much closer to those of the EU leaders anyway ... so they are already in far closer political agreement in that respect).

Obviously, the EU has already made very clear that they will not change the substance of the offers that they already made to Mr's May, so any deal made with Corbyn would have to be very close to what we already had with Mr's May. But the EU are far more likely to at least discuss changes with a new UK Prime Minister from a different political party (a far more socialist party as opposed to a party of the "Right" which has in this particular case been destroyed from within by an extreme right-wing anti-EU faction headed by people like Boris and Jacob Rees Mogg).

But I think the most likely outcome if Jeremy and Labour were to win a GE, would be that we could not get a deal much different from that which Mrs May had, and that any such deal would be rejected again in a parliamentary vote, with the result that Corbyn would then probably present MP's with two options (1) a new public referendum, or (2) revoke Article-50 (ie remain in the EU).

Having said that – politics has a habit of coming up with things you just never expected. So, whilst I think the above scenario is as likely as any (ie if Corbyn becomes PM), I'm also aware that there could yet be all sorts of surprises to change things at any moment.

Last edited by IanS; 25th June 2019 at 04:51 AM.
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Old 25th June 2019, 06:00 AM   #118
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Apparently the next PM will be named on July 24th,and then the next one on August 24th.....
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Old 25th June 2019, 06:25 AM   #119
GlennB
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Nice.

Also, here's a lovely piece about your soon-to-be PM. By his former boss, so you'd say the bloke knows him pretty well.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-party-britain
It's worth quoting the end of that:

"If the Johnson family had stuck to showbusiness like the Osmonds, Marx Brothers or von Trapp family, the world would be a better place. Yet the Tories, in their terror, have elevated a cavorting charlatan to the steps of Downing Street, and they should expect to pay a full forfeit when voters get the message. If the price of Johnson proves to be Corbyn, blame will rest with the Conservative party, which is about to foist a tasteless joke upon the British people – who will not find it funny for long."
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Old 25th June 2019, 06:46 PM   #120
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Are Americans such of Trump yet?
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