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Old 8th November 2019, 10:05 AM   #121
Joe Random
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If schools insist on teaching religion they need to stick to teaching about the man who died so that others might live.



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Old 8th November 2019, 01:04 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by DuvalHMFIC View Post
Not if you believe your entire purpose is only due to god/religion. Haven't you heard people say "how can atheists be moral" or some such nonsense? These types need to be spoon-fed how to live their life.
That might be true, except that the bible doesn't define murder. So it comes down to whatever we decide it is.
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Old 8th November 2019, 01:23 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
That might be true, except that the bible doesn't define murder. So it comes down to whatever we decide it is.
And the Bible contains the word "fryingpan" but not the word "democracy". Strange isn't it?
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Old 10th November 2019, 05:22 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
And the Bible contains the word "fryingpan" but not the word "democracy". Strange isn't it?
I occasionally use a wok as a frying pan. It's all noodle related. (Lapsed Catholic, went to Catholic school, used to visit Lewes to see where Catholics (not real ones) are burned annually.)

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Old 10th November 2019, 10:04 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
why is Islam taught in AMerican public schools when prayer is not allowed?
Do you remember when you were young and your parents made you eat all of your Lima Beans?

For Liberals, it's kinda' like that ...

It builds character. You'll just have to trust us ...
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Old 11th November 2019, 03:45 PM   #126
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good question
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Old 11th November 2019, 05:07 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Do you remember when you were young and your parents made you eat all of your Lima Beans?

For Liberals, it's kinda' like that ...

It builds character. You'll just have to trust us ...
I remember that! Now I won't touch them.

They made me go to church, too.....
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Old 11th November 2019, 05:27 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Do you remember when you were young and your parents made you eat all of your Lima Beans?

For Liberals, it's kinda' like that ...

It builds character. You'll just have to trust us ...

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Old 12th November 2019, 01:34 PM   #129
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Why is chemistry taught in AMerican public schools when building atom bombs is not allowed?

I can't understand why it's okay for children to hear about more branches of science than nuclear physics, yet seemingly school is not the place to carry out their nuclear weapons program.
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Old 12th November 2019, 04:52 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Why do you need a commandment against murder? Isn't murder wrong, basically by definition?

Yes.but you still need a actual law against it.
Ten Commandments is supposed to be the basic moral law of Judaism; I see why they would include the most basic statements.
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Old 12th November 2019, 04:56 PM   #131
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What is amusing to some of the "King James Version Only" fundies have based doctrines not on what the bible in the original languages say,but on the accident of what the Elizabethan language of the KJV said.
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Old 12th November 2019, 08:48 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
What is amusing to some of the "King James Version Only" fundies have based doctrines not on what the bible in the original languages say,but on the accident of what the Elizabethan language of the KJV said.
And more. "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" has a particularly interesting source. (Purportedly. I'm not willing to track it down.)
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Old 13th November 2019, 07:08 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Yes.but you still need a actual law against it.
Ten Commandments is supposed to be the basic moral law of Judaism; I see why they would include the most basic statements.
Would murder be acceptable if there isn't a law against it?

If it's not illegal, is it murder?
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Old 13th November 2019, 08:09 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Would murder be acceptable if there isn't a law against it?

If it's not illegal, is it murder?
Not really. That's basically the difference between murder and killing.
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Old 13th November 2019, 08:17 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
If it's not illegal, is it murder?

Agreeing with post above. No, it's not. Illegal killing is pretty much how every dictionary defines murder. Although they may say "unlawful", or "as prescribed by law" instead of literally using the word illegal. Illegal is built in to the definition of the word.
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Old 13th November 2019, 08:36 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Agreeing with post above. No, it's not. Illegal killing is pretty much how every dictionary defines murder. Although they may say "unlawful", or "as prescribed by law" instead of literally using the word illegal. Illegal is built in to the definition of the word.
But "wrong" isn't.
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Old 13th November 2019, 08:46 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
good question
It's not a good question; it's a completely inaccurate question, as has been pointed out several times in the thread. Prayer is not banned in American schools, and learning about world religions (including Islam) is not the same thing as indoctrination.

Teachers in US public schools cannot MAKE students pray. Students are welcome to pray on their own any old damn time they want.
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Old 13th November 2019, 08:57 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by sphenisc View Post
But "wrong" isn't.
Yes it is. Not sure why you said that. Murder is a subset of wrongful death. All murders are wrongful deaths, not all wrongful deaths are murders.
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Old 13th November 2019, 08:58 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
Teachers in US public schools cannot MAKE students pray. Students are welcome to pray on their own any old damn time they want.
Well, mostly. They can't stand up in the middle of class, interrupt the teacher, and start praying out loud...but that has nothing to do with it being a prayer .

But yeah, at lunch, or recess, or between classes, or when they have downtime in class (assuming they aren't disruptive of others) they can if they want to.
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Old 13th November 2019, 09:04 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Well, mostly. They can't stand up in the middle of class, interrupt the teacher, and start praying out loud...but that has nothing to do with it being a prayer .

But yeah, at lunch, or recess, or between classes, or when they have downtime in class (assuming they aren't disruptive of others) they can if they want to.
I think there was once a bumper sticker along the lines of:

So long as there are tests, there will be prayer in our schools.
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Old 13th November 2019, 10:45 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I think there was once a bumper sticker along the lines of:

So long as there are tests, there will be prayer in our schools.
True, but I always found studying to be more effective.
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Old 13th November 2019, 11:35 AM   #142
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The great philosopher Redman once opined:

"If I study high, take the test high, I'll get highs scores!"
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Old 13th November 2019, 12:46 PM   #143
pgwenthold
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Originally Posted by sphenisc View Post
But "wrong" isn't.
But the claim was that there needed to be a law against it, and so the question isn't whether it is inherently wrong, but if it's inherently illegal.

Murder is, by definition, killing that is against the law. So I contend that you don't need a law against murder, it is already against the law by definition. What you need to do is define what constitutes murder and what doesn't, and the bible certainly does not do that.
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Old 14th November 2019, 04:21 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by DuvalHMFIC View Post
The great philosopher Redman once opined:

"If I study high, take the test high, I'll get highs scores!"
I tried that. It didn't work too well.
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Old 14th November 2019, 09:03 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
I tried that. It didn't work too well.
It works in philosophy classes that involve a lot of essay writing.
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Old 14th November 2019, 10:12 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
What you need to do is define what constitutes murder and what doesn't, and the bible certainly does not do that.
Yes it does.

Ten Commandments: Killing or murder
Quote:
The imperative is against unlawful killing resulting in bloodguilt. The Hebrew Bible contains numerous prohibitions against unlawful killing, but does not prohibit killing in the context of warfare (1Kings 2:5-6), capital punishment (Leviticus 20:9-16) and self-defence (Exodus 22:23), which are considered justified.
Bloodguilt
Quote:
BLOODGUILT, liability for punishment for shedding blood. The biblical concept of bloodguilt derives from the belief that deeds generate consequences and that sin, in particular, is a danger to the sinner. The most vivid examples of this belief appear in connection with unlawful homicide, where innocent blood (dam naki (naqi); Jonah 1:14) cries out for vengeance (Gen. 4:10), is rejected by the earth (Isa. 26:21; Ezek. 24:7), and pollutes it (Num. 35:3334). Bloodguilt attaches to the slayer and his family (II Sam. 3:28ff.) for generations (II Kings 9:26), and even to his city
So if you kill an innocent, and the killing is not in warfare, for capital punishment, or in self defense, then you are guilty of murder. And not just you. Also your family (for generations), and perhaps even your whole city!
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