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Tags murder cases , New York cases , Tessa Majors

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Old 14th December 2019, 08:23 PM   #1
Puppycow
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Tessa Majors murder case

Tessa Majors was an 18-year-old freshman at Barnard College, a private college for women in Manhattan, New York City. She was stabbed to death in an apparent mugging. A 13-year-old boy is in custody suspected of the murder. A second 14-year-old boy was detained by police but released and a third is being sought by police. The shocking thing to me is how young the suspects are (all three aged 13 to 14). Police say the 13-year-old has confessed.

Here is one story of many:

Barnard stabbing suspect held without bail after Tessa Majors’ murder
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Last edited by Puppycow; 14th December 2019 at 08:34 PM. Reason: To fix spelling error
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Old 15th December 2019, 12:51 AM   #2
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My first question is why is this boy being tried in family court. This is robbery/homicide - age should not be a factor, the ratbag should be tried as an adult, with all the attendant consequences.
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Old 15th December 2019, 01:51 AM   #3
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It might possibly be moved to adult court, but I'm not a lawyer. It's still very early in the process.
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Old 15th December 2019, 05:41 AM   #4
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A child is still a child, irrespective of what he has done.
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Old 15th December 2019, 07:34 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
A child is still a child, irrespective of what he has done.
And the child is still a murderer.
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Old 15th December 2019, 08:14 AM   #6
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the view from the fence is just fine

IMO it is prudent to wait and see until more facts come out.
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Old 15th December 2019, 08:42 AM   #7
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Yes, he is accused of murder, he's not guilty yet. And I'd like to know the exact nature of his confession. Was it coerced?

But if he did do it and is convicted, I have no problem with him never being allowed to see the light of day again.
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Old 15th December 2019, 04:50 PM   #8
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https://news.google.com/articles/CAI...S&ceid=US%3Aen

This is a story in the New York Times about the park where the incident occurred. It long had a reputation as a place best avoided, particularly after dark. But the area had been gentrifying more recently and some newcomers didn't have the same wariness that long-time New Yorkers have.

Quote:
Maria Lopez, 61, a longtime park neighbor, gazed at the crime scene and said, “When I was growing up, and even in my 20s, you never came to this park, daytime or nighttime.”

But now, she said, many newcomers exhibit a boldness that contrasts with the wariness that some older New Yorkers retain from more dangerous times.

“People with money think, ‘I have the right to walk through here,’” she said. “Old-timers would never do that.”
Quote:
The attack also reopened longstanding questions over both racial tensions and Columbia’s relationship with more economically struggling nearby neighborhoods with many black and Hispanic residents.

Some students said they were worried less about their own safety than about the attack being used to portray Harlem as unsafe.

“A lot of response I’m getting from people is, ‘Oh, be careful of that area,’” said Ms. Ong, the Columbia senior, adding that such a response was “racially coded.”
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Old 15th December 2019, 05:45 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
My first question is why is this boy being tried in family court. This is robbery/homicide - age should not be a factor, the ratbag should be tried as an adult, with all the attendant consequences.
If they're not an adult, why should they be tried as an adult?
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Old 15th December 2019, 08:13 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
My first question is why is this boy being tried in family court. This is robbery/homicide - age should not be a factor, the ratbag should be tried as an adult, with all the attendant consequences.
He's not being tried anywhere, and won't be for a long time. The first hearing is the first step in a long process. The 13-year-old himself reportedly didn't stab her himself, but was with two older boys, and he turned them in. And juveniles are presumed to have limited responsibility for their thoughts and actions. The prosecution can always choose to prove otherwise, but the starting point is that a kid is a kid.
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Old 16th December 2019, 01:12 AM   #11
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Regarding at what age a child can be tried as an adult, I did see this on BBC:

Responsible Child: Can a 10-year-old be a cold-blooded murderer?

It's a different country of course, but the question is the same.

Quote:
When you're 10 years old you can't legally drink, smoke, vote, get married or even buy a pet. You're in year five or six at primary school. You're legally a child.

But you can be put on trial as an adult for murder.

That's because in England and Wales, 10 is the minimum age of criminal responsibility - meaning a 10-year-old accused of killing someone can be tried like an adult in a Crown Court in front of a jury, rather than in the youth courts.

A few concessions are made based on their young age, including their first name being used, lawyers not having to wear wigs and gowns, and being allowed to sit close to their lawyer or an appropriate adult.

But can a child that young understand what it means to commit a murder? Are they responsible for their actions? And what happens to them later in life if you convict them as an adult before they even become a teenager?

Those questions are at the heart of 12-year-old Ray's story, which is told in new BBC drama Responsible Child - loosely based on a real-life case.

Ray, who loves playing video games, learning about space and watching reality shows, is on trial - alongside his big brother, Nathan, 21 - for a brutal murder.

After their abusive step-dad narrowly escapes prison for attacking Nathan with an axe, he returns to the overcrowded family home and starts being abusive to their mum. One night, the brothers go downstairs and stab him more than 60 times while he sleeps on the sofa.

It's an attack so frenzied they almost cut his head off.

The story is based on that of Jerome and Joshua Ellis, who were 14 and 23 when they also killed their step-dad.
Killing an abusive step-father who had previously attacked one of them with an axe is a very different matter from killing a stranger while mugging them in a park. But the point is that in in England and Wales, a child as young as 10 could be tried as an adult, if the crime is heinous enough.

Quote:
'Pure evil'

The minimum age for criminal responsibility was set at 10 in England and Wales back in 1963.
. . .
Our understanding of how the adolescent brain develops - and how that affects decision-making - has increased since the age limit was originally set, a recent government report points out.

And in 2010 a survey commissioned by the Prison Reform Trust of more than 2,000 adults suggested that two-thirds were in favour of raising the age of criminal responsibility to at least 12.

But others passionately disagree.

It's possible that they're against raising the age due to the horrific murder of two-year-old James Bulger by then 10-year-olds Jon Venables and Robert Thomson, in 1993. A grainy CCTV image of the tiny toddler being led away by the two older boys who abducted him from a supermarket is something few people who have seen it can forget.

It was a crime that shocked the nation, leading to headlines labelling the child killers "pure evil" and a heated debate about whether or not their violent behaviour was influenced by horror movies like Child's Play 3, which starred a killer doll.

Jamie Bulger's mum, Denise Fergus, has spoken out in the past against raising the age. In 2010, the then-children's commissioner made a personal apology to her after suggesting in a newspaper article that the age of responsibility should be raised.
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Old 16th December 2019, 01:20 AM   #12
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By the way, I looked up what the law is in New York State.
Age 16 or older means they are automatically charged as an adult, but youths as young as 13 can also be tried as an adult depending on the circumstances and what the prosecutor decides to do. But it isn't automatic.
Source
Quote:
How are juveniles charged and sentenced in criminal matters? A minor can be charged, under certain circumstances, as an adult. Sixteen and 17 year olds are automatically charged as adults and 13 to 15 year olds may be charged as adults for more serious and violent crimes. If they’re charged as an adult, they’re subject to the same penalties an adult would have.
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Old 16th December 2019, 12:07 PM   #13
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the right to counsel

"The suspect spoke in the presence of his uncle, as is required when interviewing a juvenile, and the suspect waived his right to remain silent, sources said." CBS

A dissenting judge in the Central Park Five case wrote, "In sum, other than an undisguised intention to exploit this defendant’s youthful vulnerability, there was no justification for the authorities’ actions in preventing defendant from gaining access to the helpful counsel of the supportive adults who had gathered at the police station to assist him. Accordingly, I would hold that the statements the police obtained as a result of their overreaching ought to have been suppressed. Such a holding is necessary, in my view, both to deter the abuse of police authority and to protect the right to counsel of those who are too young and naive to appreciate its importance."

I do not contend that the 13-year old's rights have been violated. In addition, the fact that he was in the presence of his uncle is a step in the right direction relative to the CP5 case. IMO however, no juvenile should be able to waive the right to legal counsel, nor should an adult be able to waive it for him or her. I am tempted to go further and suggest that no adult once charged should be able to waive the right to counsel. The consequences are too serious. With respect to the present case, I would like to know more about the specifics of the interrogation (which I hope was recorded). The CP5 is a cautionary tale about what can go wrong.
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Old 16th December 2019, 12:13 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
If they're not an adult, why should they be tried as an adult?
Because "tough in crime" is a vote winner.
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Old 16th December 2019, 12:15 PM   #15
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If a child can be tried as an adult what the procedure for them to be declared an adult for the purposes of purchasing and consuming alcohol and tobacco, voting, getting married at cetera.
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
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Old 16th December 2019, 01:17 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
A child is still a child, irrespective of what he has done.
Well the point of the justice system is, in part, to evaluate whether perps are a danger to society going forward, and this one isn't on a good start.

In some instance I think trying them as adults is warranted. And in any case, at some point "child" is getting close enough to adult to erase the legal distinction.
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Old 16th December 2019, 01:18 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
https://news.google.com/articles/CAI...S&ceid=US%3Aen

This is a story in the New York Times about the park where the incident occurred. It long had a reputation as a place best avoided, particularly after dark. But the area had been gentrifying more recently and some newcomers didn't have the same wariness that long-time New Yorkers have.
Sounds like the authorities are ignoring a problem there.
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Old 16th December 2019, 01:21 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Because "tough in crime" is a vote winner.
Or maybe because, in some instances, it's determined that the crime was bad enough that they can be considered responsible. A brutal murder is different from shoplifting.
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Old 16th December 2019, 02:00 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Sounds like the authorities are ignoring a problem there.
No, they are out there tackling the root causes.

This murder is because of pot. The NYPD police union says relaxing attitudes towards marijuana use is to blame.

https://nypost.com/2019/12/15/tessa-...sident-claims/

It's super good and very normal that the police are spreading rumors about a murder victim to advocate their agenda.
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Old 16th December 2019, 02:31 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
No, they are out there tackling the root causes.

This murder is because of pot. The NYPD police union says relaxing attitudes towards marijuana use is to blame.

https://nypost.com/2019/12/15/tessa-...sident-claims/

It's super good and very normal that the police are spreading rumors about a murder victim to advocate their agenda.

Perhaps someone should tell Ed Mullins that if they were to relax them a bit more and allow fully legalized marijuana use in NY State it would eliminate the need for clandestine meetings in a dodgy part of town.
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