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Tags mediums , psychics

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Old 13th November 2019, 06:54 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
not
only the father knew the daughter.
Ever heard of a thing called an obituary? I hear they even put them online nowadays. The medium could have researched prior to the event, or been introduced to the father and then went into the restroom to do some Internet research.

Or, any number of other non-supernatural explanations, many of which previous posters have already listed.
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Old 13th November 2019, 06:54 PM   #42
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What would be evidence for all of this forum?

Last edited by Cris; 13th November 2019 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 13th November 2019, 06:55 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
You should not generalize.
Try another explanation.
I don't think you know what the word "generalize" means.
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Old 13th November 2019, 06:56 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
better not continue on this subject about spirits
Are you admitting that you cannot provide the evidence Loss Leader asked for?

Quote:
I can learn about skepticism here in this forum
I doubt you're here to learn about skepticism. You can't unspring the trap just because it didn't catch anyone and expect it to work again.
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Old 13th November 2019, 06:57 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Myles View Post
Did you happen to take a photo of the portrait that you could share here?
This would be very helpful.
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Old 13th November 2019, 06:59 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
I wonder if I can question a Belief with you!
We're past that. You outed yourself. Now you're on the hook as a claimant. Present the evidence that Loss Leader asked for, or admit you cannot.
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Old 13th November 2019, 07:03 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Are you admitting that you cannot provide the evidence Loss Leader asked for?



I doubt you're here to learn about skepticism. You can't unspring the trap just because it didn't catch anyone and expect it to work again.
What would be evidence for you?
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Old 13th November 2019, 07:04 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
We're past that. You outed yourself. Now you're on the hook as a claimant. Present the evidence that Loss Leader asked for, or admit you cannot.
What is loss leader?
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Old 13th November 2019, 07:05 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
What would be evidence for you?
Let's start with the evidence that Loss Leader asked for and go from there.
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Old 13th November 2019, 07:06 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
What is loss leader?
Another poster in this thread. Are you actually reading the thread, or are you just trying to get people to pay attention to you?

Here is the post.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...5#post12891545

Please answer each and every questions or admit you cannot or will not.
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Old 13th November 2019, 07:08 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
We're past that. You outed yourself. Now you're on the hook as a claimant. Present the evidence that Loss Leader asked for, or admit you cannot.
maybe in the future i can present the many evidences
I hope you don't have pseudo-skepticism.
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Old 13th November 2019, 07:15 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
maybe in the future i can present the many evidences.
If you choose to withhold evidence, then no one has the obligation to attempt to explain your claim, or even to take you very seriously.

Quote:
I hope you don't have pseudo-skepticism.
I don't. I'm attempting to draw a conclusion based on evidence instead of on the claim. You refuse to provide the evidence I'm asking for, so I have no obligation to give you a conclusion. Right now you are unable to provide any evidence that your story even happened at all. No one is therefore obliged to believe it did.
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Old 13th November 2019, 07:19 PM   #53
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For some reason there is something about eyewitness evidence that this reminds me of. As we all know, eyewitness evidence is the least reliable evidence. Often, we see what we want to see and search for similarity. There is nothing paranormal about it. Just my opinion.
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Old 13th November 2019, 07:25 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
If you choose to withhold evidence, then no one has the obligation to attempt to explain your claim, or even to take you very seriously.



I don't. I'm attempting to draw a conclusion based on evidence instead of on the claim. You refuse to provide the evidence I'm asking for, so I have no obligation to give you a conclusion. Right now you are unable to provide any evidence that your story even happened at all. No one is therefore obliged to believe it did.
The Plural of Anecdote is Data
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Old 13th November 2019, 07:27 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
For some reason there is something about eyewitness evidence that this reminds me of. As we all know, eyewitness evidence is the least reliable evidence. Often, we see what we want to see and search for similarity. There is nothing paranormal about it. Just my opinion.
The Plural of Anecdote is Data

do you agree with me
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Old 13th November 2019, 07:32 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
The Plural of Anecdote is Data
Originally Posted by Cris View Post
The Plural of Anecdote is Data

do you agree with me
Quit playing games. Either supply the evidence we asked for or admit that you will not.
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Old 13th November 2019, 07:35 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Quit playing games. Either supply the evidence we asked for or admit that you will not.
To say there is no evidence in an absence of study is an appeal to ignorance.
This is called abductive inference. It is a weak form of inference where one only finds what one is looking for.
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Old 13th November 2019, 07:38 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
To say there is no evidence in an absence of study is an appeal to ignorance.
This is called abductive inference. It is a weak form of inference where one only finds what one is looking for.
No, this has nothing to do with your refusal to provide evidence. Either supply the evidence we asked for or admit that you will not.
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Old 13th November 2019, 07:38 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
The Plural of Anecdote is Data

do you agree with me
You are playing games and I am not wasting any more time.
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Old 13th November 2019, 07:48 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
The medium created the drawing, in my house and in the presence of twenty witnesses of the portrait of a young woman who had been dead for eighteen months and whom he did not know, a portrait recognized by the young woman's father present at the session.
My explanation: This did not happen.
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Old 13th November 2019, 07:48 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
The Plural of Anecdote is Data

do you agree with me
No.

Definition of Data
1 : factual information (such as measurements or statistics) used as a basis for reasoning, discussion, or calculation.
BTW,
Quote:
Is data singular or plural?

Data leads a life of its own quite independent of datum, of which it was originally the plural. It occurs in two constructions: as a plural noun (like earnings), taking a plural verb and plural modifiers (such as these, many, a few) but not cardinal numbers, and serving as a referent for plural pronouns (such as they, them); and as an abstract mass noun (like information), taking a singular verb and singular modifiers (such as this, much, little), and being referred to by a singular pronoun (it). Both constructions are standard. The plural construction is more common in print, evidently because the house style of several publishers mandates it.
So data can be singular or plural, but no quantity of anecdotes is ever data - because,

Definition of anecdote
1. A short amusing or interesting story...
1.1 An account regarded as unreliable or hearsay.
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Old 13th November 2019, 07:53 PM   #62
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Did the “medium” just draw a portrait and ask if looked like any dead loved ones?

That’s the simple way.

If he knew that it was a dead relative of the father, well that’s even easier.
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Old 13th November 2019, 07:54 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
To say there is no evidence in an absence of study is an appeal to ignorance.

But I'm asking specifically for you to provide evidence for people to study.

Where did this drawing session take place? What was the date? Who was the medium? Who was the father? How do you know this actually happened? Were you a witness? If so, please describe step by step exactly what you saw. Do you have contact information for any of the people? What was the name of the daughter? When did she die? How old was she at the time of death? How old was she in the drawing? Can you provide a copy of the drawing? Is there any way for anyone on this forum to verify that any of these events ever occurred?

All of these would be pieces of evidence which we could study. If you don't let give us evidence to study, we cannot tell you our opinions.

A person perfected cold-fusion at room temperature, providing millions of times more energy from a glass of water than from a tanker full of crude oil. This was verified by the father of a young girl.

How could this have been possible?

If you say you don't know because you need more details, are you just appealing to ignorance?

Once again, I demand you explain how this could have been possible.

What is your native language? Would it be helpful if someone here communicated with you in that language?
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Old 13th November 2019, 08:14 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
How to explain this fact?
Nobody here will be able to explain this experience. None of us were there, and you have not provided enough information about it for us to even try and speculate.

However, it is true that a competent stage magician would be able to suggest several different ways that they might be able to produce such an effect, so the principle of parsimony suggests that what you witnessed was a standard magic trick of the kind used by stage magicians, rather than some unknown principle of science which transmits information with no known mechanism.
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Old 13th November 2019, 08:20 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
...rather than some unknown principle of science which transmits information with no known mechanism.
But he's not claiming it's some unknown principle of science. He flat-out claimed it was spirits that told the medium what to draw.

It's not as if he's very good at this. When skeptics refused to give him specific answers, owing to the paucity of evidence, he all but begged them to do so anyway. Now he's trying to make it his critics' fault that he refuses to supply the evidence they asked for in order to support a more specific hypothesis. He's frantically trying to bait his critics into taking up a flagrantly irrational position so that he can chastise them for it.
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Old 13th November 2019, 08:22 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
But he's not claiming it's some unknown principle of science. He flat-out claimed it was spirits that told the medium what to draw.
If that's real, then there is a scientific principle that describes it. Because that's what science does - it describes reality.
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Old 13th November 2019, 08:30 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
If that's real, then there is a scientific principle that describes it. Because that's what science does - it describes reality.
I agree. I meant only that, as stated, that wasn't his claim. But what you brought up is something that would necessarily follow from his claim.
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Old 13th November 2019, 08:33 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
I agree. I meant only that, as stated, that wasn't his claim. But what you brought up is something that would necessarily follow from his claim.
Glad we could clear that up.
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Old 14th November 2019, 01:32 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
wrong, only the father knew what his daughter looked like.
You said it was the father that recognized the picture.
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Old 14th November 2019, 04:50 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
But I'm asking specifically for you to provide evidence for people to study.

Where did this drawing session take place? What was the date? Who was the medium? Who was the father? How do you know this actually happened? Were you a witness? If so, please describe step by step exactly what you saw. Do you have contact information for any of the people? What was the name of the daughter? When did she die? How old was she at the time of death? How old was she in the drawing? Can you provide a copy of the drawing? Is there any way for anyone on this forum to verify that any of these events ever occurred?

All of these would be pieces of evidence which we could study. If you don't let give us evidence to study, we cannot tell you our opinions.

A person perfected cold-fusion at room temperature, providing millions of times more energy from a glass of water than from a tanker full of crude oil. This was verified by the father of a young girl.

How could this have been possible?

If you say you don't know because you need more details, are you just appealing to ignorance?

Once again, I demand you explain how this could have been possible.

What is your native language? Would it be helpful if someone here communicated with you in that language?
I have other evidence to present.
The difficulty here is the English language for me.
My language is Portuguese
what happened was unexpected.
that's why only the father recognized that the drawing was the daughter's face
You can't think everything is quackery.
Sorry Google Translate. he misses a lot.
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Old 14th November 2019, 04:54 AM   #71
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"The spirits, through a medium" isn't explanation, it's mere attribution- the skeptic equivalent would be "a con-man, through trickery." So all it really boils down to is the usual woo double standard- whether it's spirits or a conspiracy, there's a disparity between what the wooster is willing to accept (or even honestly assess) as evidence/explanation that counters his claim and what he's willing (or able) to put forth to support it. And no amount of counter explanation/evidence will ever be enough, because the wooster can also always fall back on the ultimate incredulity- "maybe that explains other events, but I couldn't be fooled by that!"
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Old 14th November 2019, 04:58 AM   #72
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Is evidence that is recorded in books allowed in this forum?
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Old 14th November 2019, 05:00 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
"The spirits, through a medium" isn't explanation, it's mere attribution- the skeptic equivalent would be "a con-man, through trickery." So all it really boils down to is the usual woo double standard- whether it's spirits or a conspiracy, there's a disparity between what the wooster is willing to accept (or even honestly assess) as evidence/explanation that counters his claim and what he's willing (or able) to put forth to support it. And no amount of counter explanation/evidence will ever be enough, because the wooster can also always fall back on the ultimate incredulity- "maybe that explains other events, but I couldn't be fooled by that!"
what is wooster?
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Old 14th November 2019, 05:02 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
If that's real, then there is a scientific principle that describes it. Because that's what science does - it describes reality.
yes it exists but it is not supernatural.
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Old 14th November 2019, 05:05 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post

What is your native language? Would it be helpful if someone here communicated with you in that language?
I keep using google translator.
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Old 14th November 2019, 05:09 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Nobody here will be able to explain this experience. None of us were there, and you have not provided enough information about it for us to even try and speculate.

However, it is true that a competent stage magician would be able to suggest several different ways that they might be able to produce such an effect, so the principle of parsimony suggests that what you witnessed was a standard magic trick of the kind used by stage magicians, rather than some unknown principle of science which transmits information with no known mechanism.
it was all unexpected
it happened in the year 2002
In American culture everything is trick and magic.
You can't think the cause is always magic.
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Old 14th November 2019, 05:15 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
The medium created the drawing, in my house and in the presence of twenty witnesses of the portrait of a young woman who had been dead for eighteen months and whom he did not know, a portrait recognized by the young woman's father present at the session.
Possible explanations:
(1) Actually, he did know her, having met her nineteen months ago in a chance encounter.
(2) He'd researched the father and found a picture of the young woman before the session.
(3) He's quite good at extrapolating a child's looks from the parent and drew a woman who looked the way he thought the young women might, and the father filled in the difference.
(4) He drew a picture that looked very little like the young woman but kept pressing everyone for a response until the father conceded that maybe it was supposed to be a picture of his daughter.
(5) He'd communicated with the father in advance to set up a trick to make everyone else think he had a genuine gift.
(6) The father said the picture didn't look like his daughter, but your memory is faulty.
(7) The father said that the picture didn't look like his daughter, but the medium persuaded the rest of you that it looked enough like her that the father recognised it (a subset of 4).
(8) He got lucky.
(9) You made the whole thing up.

Please present evidence that all of these are incorrect.

Dave
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Old 14th November 2019, 05:17 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Cris View Post
what is wooster?
Just my informal term for someone who would rather grasp at a "spirit" than honestly look for any explanation that refutes it.

"Wooooooo!"
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Old 14th November 2019, 05:27 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Possible explanations:
(1) Actually, he did know her, having met her nineteen months ago in a chance encounter.
(2) He'd researched the father and found a picture of the young woman before the session.
(3) He's quite good at extrapolating a child's looks from the parent and drew a woman who looked the way he thought the young women might, and the father filled in the difference.
(4) He drew a picture that looked very little like the young woman but kept pressing everyone for a response until the father conceded that maybe it was supposed to be a picture of his daughter.
(5) He'd communicated with the father in advance to set up a trick to make everyone else think he had a genuine gift.
(6) The father said the picture didn't look like his daughter, but your memory is faulty.
(7) The father said that the picture didn't look like his daughter, but the medium persuaded the rest of you that it looked enough like her that the father recognised it (a subset of 4).
(8) He got lucky.
(9) You made the whole thing up.

Please present evidence that all of these are incorrect.

Dave
I have other evidence recorded in books.
Does this forum accept this kind of evidence?
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Old 14th November 2019, 05:28 AM   #80
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Location: Portugal/Brazil
Posts: 123
Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
Just my informal term for someone who would rather grasp at a "spirit" than honestly look for any explanation that refutes it.

"Wooooooo!"
If you can convince me that it doesn't exist, I'll give in to the evidence.
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