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Tags putin , russia , Russia-Ukraine war , ukraine , Zelensky

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Old 8th August 2022, 10:16 AM   #2921
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Speaking of the Wagner group.

They're openly recruiting.

Russia’s private military contractor Wagner comes out of the shadows in Ukraine war
"Are you a sick sadistic twisted and depraved baby raping ************? Then the Wagner Group wants you!"
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Old 8th August 2022, 10:44 AM   #2922
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So, on CNN, the Pentagon is saying Russia has taken between 70,000 and 80,000 casualties (killed and wounded). I'll go with the lower to be conservative.

70,000 Russian troops have been either killed or wounded... for what, exactly? How is this showing Russia's greatness? On the flip side, it may demonstrate Putin's tolerance for casualties. The fight may be going out of Russia's military, but there's little sign of it going of Putin!
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Old 8th August 2022, 11:27 AM   #2923
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That's 70,000 disgruntled youth with military training who won't be able to participate in a popular uprising in a few years.
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Old 8th August 2022, 12:05 PM   #2924
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Putin's always thinking ahead.
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Old 8th August 2022, 12:10 PM   #2925
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The USSR collapsed much faster than anyone anticipated;
my guess is that something similar will happen with Putin's war effort - when it breaks down, it will be much more sudden and dramatic than anyone would have assumed.
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Old 8th August 2022, 12:13 PM   #2926
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Some FaceFlush articles suggest that Ukraine is now using high-speed anti radiation missiles. AMERICAN! anti radiation missiles!

Who would possibly give them such things?

Whatever happened to Donald Trump? He'd never allow this sort of carrying on.
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Old 8th August 2022, 12:35 PM   #2927
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
The USSR collapsed much faster than anyone anticipated;
my guess is that something similar will happen with Putin's war effort - when it breaks down, it will be much more sudden and dramatic than anyone would have assumed.
I expect Russia will hit a point where the army just quits and goes home. I don't think though we'll know when that point it is going to be.
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Old 8th August 2022, 12:47 PM   #2928
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So Putin's long game is to bring about a second communist revolution starting with forcing the army to revolt. Master strategist indeed.
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Old 8th August 2022, 01:03 PM   #2929
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No, no! You don't understand! Russia is just going to keep grinding away, inexorably occupying Kiev one inch at a time. They have virtually unlimited amounts of bodies, ammo, and vehicles, and there's really nothing Ukraine can do to stop their advance
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Old 8th August 2022, 01:23 PM   #2930
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Q - What do you get when you combine a country's military, severely weakened by Western standards, with its leadership's complete disregard for the wellbeing of its own people?

A - the following collection of posts:

Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I expect Russia will hit a point where the army just quits and goes home. I don't think though we'll know when that point it is going to be.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
No, no! You don't understand! Russia is just going to keep grinding away, inexorably occupying Kiev one inch at a time. They have virtually unlimited amounts of bodies, ammo, and vehicles, and there's really nothing Ukraine can do to stop their advance
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
The USSR collapsed much faster than anyone anticipated;
my guess is that something similar will happen with Putin's war effort - when it breaks down, it will be much more sudden and dramatic than anyone would have assumed.
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Old 8th August 2022, 01:30 PM   #2931
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
No, no! You don't understand! Russia is just going to keep grinding away, inexorably occupying Kiev one inch at a time. They have virtually unlimited amounts of bodies, ammo, and vehicles, and there's really nothing Ukraine can do to stop their advance
Well Russia did in the end gain territory from even the Winter War. I think one general described it as almost enough land to bury their dead.
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Old 8th August 2022, 02:35 PM   #2932
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
The USSR collapsed much faster than anyone anticipated;
my guess is that something similar will happen with Putin's war effort - when it breaks down, it will be much more sudden and dramatic than anyone would have assumed.
Indeed.


Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
So Putin's long game is to bring about a second communist revolution starting with forcing the army to revolt. Master strategist indeed.

Indeed, it would be ironic if in invoking Russia in 1945, whilst actually emulating Germany in 1942 he ends up with a replay of 1917.
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Old 8th August 2022, 02:39 PM   #2933
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Well Russia did in the end gain territory from even the Winter War. I think one general described it as almost enough land to bury their dead.
Maybe this time there'll be just enough to plant a nice row of sunflowers.
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Old 8th August 2022, 02:50 PM   #2934
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But still it would be a bad idea for the DPRK to let 100k North Korean troops go to Ukraine.

They would get ideas about the rest of the world that the regime would not want.
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Old 8th August 2022, 02:52 PM   #2935
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Still when Russia gets hold of Iranian technology through its aid to Russia.

Teenage me from the 1980s is still goggling at that twist.
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Old 8th August 2022, 03:01 PM   #2936
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
But still it would be a bad idea for the DPRK to let 100k North Korean troops go to Ukraine.

They would get ideas about the rest of the world that the regime would not want.
That's assuming they go home alive, if at all.
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Old 8th August 2022, 03:19 PM   #2937
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
Some FaceFlush articles suggest that Ukraine is now using high-speed anti radiation missiles. AMERICAN! anti radiation missiles!

Who would possibly give them such things?
For those not familiar, anti-radiation missiles (ARM) are a real and fairly normal sort of weapon:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-radiation_missile

Basically, these are missiles designed to home in on and destroy particular sources of electromagnetic radiation, namely radars or radio communications.
These are an integral part of supression of enemy air defense (SEAD) missions, and Ukraine could certainly use such weapons.

Now, did the Americans give any ARMs to the Ukrainians? I actually doubt it. Why? Because from what I can tell most US ARMs are air-to-surface. I don't think any Ukrainian jets can carry them, so they would be no use.

https://defbrief.com/2022/08/08/us-c...nt-to-ukraine/

So, I was wrong. We did send them some ARMs. Not sure how they launched them, but maybe they have adapters for using US ARMs with MiGs.
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Old 8th August 2022, 03:25 PM   #2938
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Wikipedia lists Ukraine as a customer of HARM missile. I haven't bothered to check when that edit was made, tho.
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Old 8th August 2022, 03:37 PM   #2939
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Originally Posted by eerok View Post
I'm more skeptical that Ukraine would bomb their own nuclear power plant on their own turf. It is their turf, regardless of whether Russia is squatting on it right now, and Ukraine would literally have to deal with the fallout if the worst happened.

This stinks of Russian desperation.
It could be Russian desperation but it's also a massive propaganda win for Ukraine wanting to get the international community involved. I'm waiting for the Russians to recycle some of those HIMARS rocket parts as "evidence" that this was a Ukrainian attack but so far, nothing.

Any info on where this claim of N.Korea sending 100K troops came from? Did some Russian just say it or has their been any official release of information Moscow and Pyongyang saying this is going to happen. If true, N.Korea, being China's pet means that (indirectly) China would be getting involved.
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Old 8th August 2022, 03:45 PM   #2940
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Any info on where this claim of N.Korea sending 100K troops came from? Did some Russian just say it or has their been any official release of information Moscow and Pyongyang saying this is going to happen. If true, N.Korea, being China's pet means that (indirectly) China would be getting involved.
I don't know if this was the original source, but apparently some Russian TV news anchor mentioned it as a rumor. But even he didn't seem to put a lot of credence in it. You can see that clip as part of this video:
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Old 8th August 2022, 05:16 PM   #2941
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Going in HVARMs way

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
For those not familiar, anti-radiation missiles (ARM) are a real and fairly normal sort of weapon:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-radiation_missile

Basically, these are missiles designed to home in on and destroy particular sources of electromagnetic radiation, namely radars or radio communications.
These are an integral part of supression of enemy air defense (SEAD) missions, and Ukraine could certainly use such weapons.

Now, did the Americans give any ARMs to the Ukrainians? I actually doubt it. Why? Because from what I can tell most US ARMs are air-to-surface. I don't think any Ukrainian jets can carry them, so they would be no use.

https://defbrief.com/2022/08/08/us-c...nt-to-ukraine/

So, I was wrong. We did send them some ARMs. Not sure how they launched them, but maybe they have adapters for using US ARMs with MiGs.
The piece I saw referred to high-speed ARMs, which I took to mean a newer model that reaches higher velocities. I think I may have listened my hopes rather too gladly.


But if the US really is providing even modestly enhanced-speed ARMs to Ukraine, then here's one taxpayer who cries, "Zelensky, nous voiçi!'
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Old 8th August 2022, 06:01 PM   #2942
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
The piece I saw referred to high-speed ARMs, which I took to mean a newer model that reaches higher velocities. I think I may have listened my hopes rather too gladly.


But if the US really is providing even modestly enhanced-speed ARMs to Ukraine, then here's one taxpayer who cries, "Zelensky, nous voiçi!'
The AGM-88 HARM is referred to as a High-speed Anti-Radiation Missile (hence the H in the acronym). It's a standard munition for the US, dating back to the 1980's, though I'm sure the design has been updated over time. So the "high speed" part isn't really special in that sense. But it is a very capable weapon, and if Ukraine can actually deploy it (I didn't think they could but it looks like I was wrong) then it's definitely a good thing for them to get a supply.

SEAD missions require a lot of training to do well, and I wasn't aware that Ukrainian pilots did much of that. Russian pilots don't (which is part of why Ukrainian air defenses weren't demolished). But maybe that's been part of what they've been training for since February. I doubt we would be sending expensive kit like that if they couldn't use it effectively, so I'm pleasantly surprised.
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Old 8th August 2022, 06:11 PM   #2943
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HARM can also be effective against the active jammers that Russian electronic warfare (EW) units have reportedly been using to counter Ukrainian drones and certain guided munitions. Presumably NATO has a good number of HARMs in inventory; hopefully they will send enough to seriously degrade both Russia's air defense and its EW capabilities.
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Old 8th August 2022, 06:44 PM   #2944
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
Whatever happened to Donald Trump? He'd never allow this sort of carrying on.
He's busy getting raided by the FBI!
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Old 8th August 2022, 09:07 PM   #2945
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Surface-to-air ARMs exist. Surface-to-surface will have been tried, although it might not be as effective as air launched -- unless it rode a VERY fast rocket. Everybody and the kitchen sink's brother is working on hypersonic tactical missiles right now.

The next war is going to be different.
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Old 8th August 2022, 09:09 PM   #2946
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You are

Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
He's busy getting raided by the FBI!
a cruel, heartless, insensitive person.

How can I be more like you?
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Old 8th August 2022, 10:20 PM   #2947
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Wikipedia lists Ukraine as a customer of HARM missile. I haven't bothered to check when that edit was made, tho.
You don't have to. Look up the reference, it's quite recent, and just goes to a story saying Russians found remains of one at a site hit by a missile. So rather indirect evidence, but quite possibly true.
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Old 8th August 2022, 11:04 PM   #2948
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Speaking of the Wagner group.

They're openly recruiting.

From The Guardian:
Russia’s private military contractor Wagner comes out of the shadows in Ukraine war.

Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
"Are you a sick sadistic twisted and depraved baby raping ************? Then the Wagner Group wants you!"

If you were a Russian male facing the prospect of conscription, and you were offered an opportunity to join the Wagner Group, what would you do?
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Old 9th August 2022, 12:12 AM   #2949
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
No, no! You don't understand! Russia is just going to keep grinding away, inexorably occupying Kiev one inch at a time. They have virtually unlimited amounts of bodies, ammo, and vehicles, and there's really nothing Ukraine can do to stop their advance
Russia doesn't need a virtually unlimited amount of bodies, ammo and vehicles, they just need "enough".

It's clear that Russia completely failed in their original objective, to quickly topple the government in Kyiv and to install their own puppet regime. Instead they seem to have settled on a much more limited set of objectives:
  • Occupy as much of the Donbas as possible and to install and recognise pro-Russian regimes
  • Occupy as much of the Black Sea coast as possible and to install and recognise pro-Russian regimes
  • Undermine the current Ukraine government by keeping them in a near-constant state of war and by crippling the Ukrainian economy

Russia has huge stockpiles of (substandard, outdated) equipment they can press into service. They have also learned to keep their dumps out of HIMARS range.

At the moment, their biggest concern is a shortage of men but as long as they can keep recruiting enough poor non-ethnic Russians, mercenaries, Syrians, North Koreans or whatever then they can continue to throw them into the meat-grinder.

At some point in time pressure will start to mount for Western governments to scale back their support for Ukraine. In the US it's likely to come after the 2022 mid-terms when the Trumpist GOP have control of the House and Senate. In Europe, pressure will start to mount after a cold, expensive, winter when gas is in short supply, economies are in recession and inflation is sky-high. In the UK both PM candidates are so weak that they could change UK policy as soon as Tory support for Ukraine starts to wane.

Russia only needs to stay in the game long enough for that to happen.
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Old 9th August 2022, 05:30 AM   #2950
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And why would it be clear that Russia can bear the economic pressure longer than allied Western supporters of Ukraine?
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Old 9th August 2022, 05:56 AM   #2951
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Ah, I was missing regular wrong doom updates by The Don.
Originally Posted by The Don
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
No, no! You don't understand! Russia is just going to keep grinding away, inexorably occupying Kiev one inch at a time. They have virtually unlimited amounts of bodies, ammo, and vehicles, and there's really nothing Ukraine can do to stop their advance
Russia doesn't need a virtually unlimited amount of bodies, ammo and vehicles, they just need "enough".
Good news, then! They don't. They never had. This not USSR we are talking about.

As long as Russians are not sent in Urkaine, they won't.
Quote:
It's clear that Russia completely failed in their original objective, to quickly topple the government in Kyiv and to install their own puppet regime. Instead they seem to have settled on a much more limited set of objectives:
  • Occupy as much of the Donbas as possible and to install and recognise pro-Russian regimes
  • Occupy as much of the Black Sea coast as possible and to install and recognise pro-Russian regimes
  • Undermine the current Ukraine government by keeping them in a near-constant state of war and by crippling the Ukrainian economy

Russia has huge stockpiles of (substandard, outdated) equipment they can press into service. They have also learned to keep their dumps out of HIMARS range.
While true, their logistics is in hell now. Fully broken. (Not enough trucks nor officers)

And older equipment is easier to destroy. If it even works...
Quote:
At the moment, their biggest concern is a shortage of men but as long as they can keep recruiting enough poor non-ethnic Russians, mercenaries, Syrians, North Koreans or whatever then they can continue to throw them into the meat-grinder.

At some point in time pressure will start to mount for Western governments to scale back their support for Ukraine. In the US it's likely to come after the 2022 mid-terms when the Trumpist GOP have control of the House and Senate. In Europe, pressure will start to mount after a cold, expensive, winter when gas is in short supply, economies are in recession and inflation is sky-high. In the UK both PM candidates are so weak that they could change UK policy as soon as Tory support for Ukraine starts to wane.

Russia only needs to stay in the game long enough for that to happen.
As if USA was the only source of stuff.
Anyway, not possible for Russians. They can't. Why? See below.

Arestovych: at 5:38. "for the first time, Ukraine has demonstrated a certain level of air superiority over the Russians. seven or eight jets over Kherson, multiple sorties. over Chernobaivka, other targets, and perhaps even to the left bank of Kherson."
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Old 9th August 2022, 06:04 AM   #2952
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
And why would it be clear that Russia can bear the economic pressure longer than allied Western supporters of Ukraine?
Russia doesn't have the same problem of a reasonably well informed public who are able to make their opinions heard via a somewhat free press and can express their unhappiness via the ballot box.

Putin can manufacture whatever narrative he wants and has a propaganda firehose to inundate a huge rural population for whom state propaganda is their only source of news.

Russia also has huge financial reserves (a significant proportion of which is frozen, but tens of billions are not) and a ready international market for their commodities - whilst many Western countries are struggling under a huge debt burden and rapidly rising interest rates which it makes it more difficult to service that debt.

Here in the UK, inflation is very high and energy prices in particular are very high and many people will fail to make ends meet over the winter. Are those same people going to be happy to send billions of pounds of aid to Ukraine ? What about when the Daily Mail, Daily Express and Sun decide that they're no longer going to support Ukraine and start feeding stories of Ukrainians milking the UK benefits system to the unhappy masses ?
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Old 9th August 2022, 06:46 AM   #2953
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Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
Ah, I was missing regular wrong doom updates by The Don.
It may look like the momentum is shifting, but at the same time

Ukraine is getting tired too

Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Russia doesn't have the same problem of a reasonably well informed public who are able to make their opinions heard via a somewhat free press and can express their unhappiness via the ballot box.

Putin can manufacture whatever narrative he wants and has a propaganda firehose to inundate a huge rural population for whom state propaganda is their only source of news.
This. Putin is spinning HIMARS as a cause of his problems and is able to use it to stir up anti-Western sentiment while using it as

a scapegoat

Quote:
Russia also has huge financial reserves (a significant proportion of which is frozen, but tens of billions are not) and a ready international market for their commodities - whilst many Western countries are struggling under a huge debt burden and rapidly rising interest rates which it makes it more difficult to service that debt.
Now, this argument I don't buy. Russia's economy is in far worse shape than Western economies. Were you trying to convey that the West has a lower appetite for economic troubles than Russia? That, I might buy.

Quote:
Here in the UK, inflation is very high and energy prices in particular are very high and many people will fail to make ends meet over the winter. Are those same people going to be happy to send billions of pounds of aid to Ukraine ? What about when the Daily Mail, Daily Express and Sun decide that they're no longer going to support Ukraine and start feeding stories of Ukrainians milking the UK benefits system to the unhappy masses ?
This is why I think you were. I agree. What happens after the US midterms, if the MAGA crowd makes significant inroads into the House?
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Old 9th August 2022, 07:14 AM   #2954
The Don
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Originally Posted by Jimbo07 View Post
Now, this argument I don't buy. Russia's economy is in far worse shape than Western economies. Were you trying to convey that the West has a lower appetite for economic troubles than Russia? That, I might buy.
Yes, exactly that.

The Russian urban middle classes may be suffering somewhat as their service-sector jobs become less tenable in the shrinking economy and as their access to Western goods and services is constrained by sanctions.

Meanwhile manufacturing is doing OK, funded by Russian government war spending. Extra shifts are being added in key industries and a recruitment drive is ongoing. Agriculture is also doing OK and so the rural population probably aren't much worse off. They have little or no demand for Western goods and services and may have more money in their pockets.

Putin's core, those out of the urban middle classes and elite aren't doing badly and may be doing a little better.

OTOH, the "swing voters" in the West are likely to suffer comparatively badly (I mean it's still orders of magnitude less bad than being driven out of your home and losing everything you have but that's not the perceived alternative) and as a result become quite restive.

Originally Posted by Jimbo07 View Post
This is why I think you were. I agree. What happens after the US midterms, if the MAGA crowd makes significant inroads into the House?
They satisfy Donald Trump's desire for revenge against Ukraine in general and Zelenyy in particular and withdraw support.

Meanwhile in the UK and a number of Western European countries, support for Ukraine quickly evaporates in response to energy price rises, a year-long recession and shortages which are blamed on the war (because governments refuse to take the blame themselves) and the right wing media takes a name of country-first approach and starts to agitate against support for Ukraine. Weak politicians will be swung by this tide of public opposition and Ukraine finds itself short of support.

All because people are selfish, the right wing press is despicable and (certainly the UK) government lacks any kind of principles.
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Old 9th August 2022, 08:04 AM   #2955
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
They satisfy Donald Trump's desire for revenge against Ukraine in general and Zelenyy in particular and withdraw support.

As I have previously explained multiple times, this will not happen, unless a large number of Democrats join the Trumpist/isolationist Republicans.

Originally Posted by SpitfireIX View Post
To reiterate and expand on what I wrote in the Russo-Ukraine war thread, even if Trump comes out tomorrow and says "no more aid to Ukraine, end all sanctions on Russia, and by the way we should veto Finland and Sweden in NATO," none of it will happen. Not this year, and not in the next two years, even if, as is exceedingly likely, the Republicans take control of both houses of Congress in November.

Only 11 Senate Republicans voted against the new Ukraine aid bill, and this was after Trump expressed reservations about it. According to Real Clear Politics, the absolute best case for the Republicans is they pick up five seats in the Senate (plus there will be some additional turnover due to retirements). Even if all the new Republican senators are extremely Trumpy, that still won't be a majority of the Republican Senate caucus. Similarly in the House, only about a quarter of Republicans voted against the latest bill.

It is true that the Republican Senate leader could block new Ukraine aid bills, but all of the Senate Republican leadership, and not just McConnell, is strongly supportive of Ukraine. In the House, the speaker cannot block legislation, due to different rules. This is also why Congress's preventing the accession of Finland and Sweden to NATO would be a non-starter.

As for sanctions, the law gives Biden wide latitude in imposing them, so there's not much Congress can do to lift them. Even if the Republicans tried to change that, the Democrats would just filibuster any new anti-sanctions bills.

To quote Abraham Lincoln, "Whoever much fears, or much hopes for such an event, will be alike disappointed."

Additionally, Trump's influence with the Republican establishment has cratered, partly due to the revelations coming out of the January 6th Committee, and partly due to the fact that some of his endorsed candidates have turned out to be major duds, notably Dr. Oz and Herschel Walker.

Finally, Trump's efforts to punish Republicans who have crossed him have been a decidedly mixed bag, with some spectacular failures and a few bare successes. (Trump's most recent victim, Peter Meijer, was defeated only because the Democrats hypocritically ran ads in support of his Trumpist opponent.)
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Old 9th August 2022, 08:19 AM   #2956
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Video of Ukrainian M270 in action:

https://en.defence-ua.com/news/ukrai...ideo-3711.html

So Ukraine now has 22 HIMARS and M270 variants operational.
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Old 9th August 2022, 08:27 AM   #2957
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
You don't have to. Look up the reference, it's quite recent, and just goes to a story saying Russians found remains of one at a site hit by a missile. So rather indirect evidence, but quite possibly true.
I'm still dubious. The HARM would be having NATO-standard mount points for weapons pylons, and NATO-standard integration with plane avionics for weapons management. It's hard to imagine Ukraine having Su-25s with NATO pylons and missile control systems. Or the budget to buy stocks of the west's current-gen ARM.
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Old 9th August 2022, 08:32 AM   #2958
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Originally Posted by SpitfireIX View Post
As I have previously explained multiple times, this will not happen, unless a large number of Democrats join the Trumpist/isolationist Republicans.




Additionally, Trump's influence with the Republican establishment has cratered, partly due to the revelations coming out of the January 6th Committee, and partly due to the fact that some of his endorsed candidates have turned out to be major duds, notably Dr. Oz and Herschel Walker.

Finally, Trump's efforts to punish Republicans who have crossed him have been a decidedly mixed bag, with some spectacular failures and a few bare successes. (Trump's most recent victim, Peter Meijer, was defeated only because the Democrats hypocritically ran ads in support of his Trumpist opponent.)
There are some very few isolationist, America First conservatives in the legislature. They made common cause with Trump because (a) he's not a Democrat, and (b) his rhetoric sometimes sounded like theirs. But he's no more one of them than he is any other kind of principled or ideological politician.

And while a lot of conservatives (and probably not a few progressives) do like the idea of "America first!", very few of them are actually hardcore isolationists. America first, sure, if it means browbeating other NATO members to un-ass more of the funding they've nominally committed to. But very few Americans are actually in favor of America only.

In fact, as this war continues, I think it will be more likely that we'll see growing objections to support for Ukraine, from the left.
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Old 9th August 2022, 08:37 AM   #2959
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Originally Posted by SpitfireIX View Post
As I have previously explained multiple times, this will not happen, unless a large number of Democrats join the Trumpist/isolationist Republicans.
Your linked analysis assumes that Republicans will stick to their positions after the mid-terms. If there's a landslide towards the Trumpist GOP then IMO so-called moderate Republican senators will have to consider their position or they may end up being primaried next time around.

Originally Posted by SpitfireIX View Post
Additionally, Trump's influence with the Republican establishment has cratered, partly due to the revelations coming out of the January 6th Committee, and partly due to the fact that some of his endorsed candidates have turned out to be major duds, notably Dr. Oz and Herschel Walker.
Have you seen the Republican response to the FBI raid on Mar-a-Lago ?

Donald Trump is at the heart of the Republican party and has the overwhelming support of GOP representatives. The vast majority of Republicans have bought into the stolen election narrative and, by extension, the Jan 6 attempted coup.

Originally Posted by SpitfireIX View Post
Finally, Trump's efforts to punish Republicans who have crossed him have been a decidedly mixed bag, with some spectacular failures and a few bare successes. (Trump's most recent victim, Peter Meijer, was defeated only because the Democrats hypocritically ran ads in support of his Trumpist opponent.)
At least here in the UK, it seems that GOP politicians still stand in line to kiss his ring (so to speak).
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Old 9th August 2022, 08:45 AM   #2960
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Trump was NEVER an isolationist. He is an 18th Century Mercantilist who believes that the point of being a Superpower is to extort every other country in the world.
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