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View Poll Results: The raid was...
Absolutely a good thing - no question 127 77.44%
An outrage, a travesty - what about Magna Carta? Did she die in vain? 4 2.44%
I'll wait before I make a judgement thank you. 27 16.46%
Mar-X-Lago! 6 3.66%
Voters: 164. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 9th August 2022, 07:33 PM   #161
I Am The Scum
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
This one says "This is Momento" (not sure what that means)
I initially suspected it had something to do with the Christopher Nolan movie, though it had nothing to do with planting evidence. Watching the video, it looks like maybe she was trying to say "demented" but just completely bungled it.
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Old 9th August 2022, 07:37 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
I initially suspected it had something to do with the Christopher Nolan movie, though it had nothing to do with planting evidence. Watching the video, it looks like maybe she was trying to say "demented" but just completely bungled it.
Momento does have the “planting of evidence” when then protagonist writes an note to tattoo himself with the license plate of the guy who has been manipulating him into various killings. Not sure how that really applies here.
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Old 9th August 2022, 07:46 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Momento does have the “planting of evidence” when then protagonist writes an note to tattoo himself with the license plate of the guy who has been manipulating him into various killings. Not sure how that really applies here.
Boy, if that's what she meant, then she was really stretching. She could have gone with Insomnia, another Nolan movie in which the protagonist is a an actual cop who plants evidence multiple times!
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Old 9th August 2022, 08:02 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
A couple of Trump lawyers are now putting out the idea that maybe "the FBI planted something" hmmmm...

This one says "This is Momento" (not sure what that means) and then says the FBI might have planted something:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1557156566167609346

Then this one... thinks maybe they would just make stuff up. They don't have anything, she asserts confidently.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1557095276329959429

What is that phrase about the accusation being the confession? Soften everyone up for the evidence that is going to come out.

Weirdly, not even Alex Jones went this route.

Oh, apparently Newt Gingrich is now saying it too...

https://twitter.com/Mediaite/status/1557074895103836166

That's the talking point, everyone. It's all a big plant.

Now would be a good time to get the Republicans to say what has been planted. Just to see if they know full well what the FBI has found.
As a few comments said: Why would the FBI need to plant anything there? The place is a wretched hive of scum and villainy.
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Old 9th August 2022, 08:09 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I'm surprised they actually had to break into the safe. (Well, Trump says they did...)

You just know he had a Post-It with the combination on it stuck to the front.
... written with a sharpie!
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Old 9th August 2022, 08:16 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
As a few comments said: Why would the FBI need to plant anything there? The place is a wretched hive of scum and villainy.
because Trump is like MLK...but a good version...no socialism and when he cheats on his wife, she deserves it
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Old 9th August 2022, 08:45 PM   #167
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Even though this is certainly about more than just not returned documenta ... the thing is that if Trump got sentenced for mishandling classified documents, that would be enough to prevent him from ever holding Office again.
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Old 9th August 2022, 08:51 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Even though this is certainly about more than just not returned documenta ... the thing is that if Trump got sentenced for mishandling classified documents, that would be enough to prevent him from ever holding Office again.
How do you figure that?

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Old 9th August 2022, 08:53 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
How do figure that?
It's part of the prescribed punishment for the crime, as written into the statute.
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Old 9th August 2022, 08:55 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
It's part of the prescribed punishment for the crime, as written into the statute.
Ever been tested?

ETA: And are you talking about mishandling or violating the records act?

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Old 9th August 2022, 09:00 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Ever been tested?

ETA: And are you talking about mishandling or violating the records act?
Yes, many many times.
Just not for Presidents.
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Old 9th August 2022, 09:02 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Indeed, The Beer Hall Putsch wasn’t exactly well executed.
In fact, the March on Rome was hardly that slick, but a combination of indecision, lack of resolve in obstructing, and no doubt calls to "not be overdramatic" led to a bloodless coup, and win for fascism.
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Old 9th August 2022, 09:03 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
The question was; what is it they got him for?
you know who knows the answer to that?

Trump.
He has the Search Warrant, but hasn't made it public.
I wonder why ...
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Old 9th August 2022, 09:07 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Yes, many many times.
Just not for Presidents.
Could you cite a case? You don't need to provide a link, if you just know a name that would be fine.
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Old 9th August 2022, 09:34 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Do you know what a hot take is? Because the OP asked for them
Did you mean hot cakes?
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Old 9th August 2022, 10:45 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Indeed, The Beer Hall Putsch wasn’t exactly well executed.
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
In fact, the March on Rome was hardly that slick, but a combination of indecision, lack of resolve in obstructing, and no doubt calls to "not be overdramatic" led to a bloodless coup, and win for fascism.
Even the original Boston Tea Party bore much in common with the Capital Riot: A bunch of drunken thugs with a gripe, having done an extended pub-crawl from Concord or thereabouts and then dressing themselves up as "Indians" as a disguise, crowded onto a freighter in Boston harbour and started throwing **** into the water. Some of it happened to be tea-crates. Arrested within minutes and quietly plopped in the cells to sober up, they claimed they were "being American patriots!!"

Sound familiar?
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Old 9th August 2022, 10:55 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Even the original Boston Tea Party bore much in common with the Capital Riot: A bunch of drunken thugs with a gripe, having done an extended pub-crawl from Concord or thereabouts and then dressing themselves up as "Indians" as a disguise, crowded onto a freighter in Boston harbour and started throwing **** into the water. Some of it happened to be tea-crates. Arrested within minutes and quietly plopped in the cells to sober up, they claimed they were "being American patriots!!"

Sound familiar?
Not really: they attacked a freighter, not the governor's mansion or the courts or whatever the seat of authority in colonial America was at the time.
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Old 10th August 2022, 12:06 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Even the original Boston Tea Party bore much in common with the Capital Riot: A bunch of drunken thugs with a gripe, having done an extended pub-crawl from Concord or thereabouts and then dressing themselves up as "Indians" as a disguise, crowded onto a freighter in Boston harbour and started throwing **** into the water. Some of it happened to be tea-crates. Arrested within minutes and quietly plopped in the cells to sober up, they claimed they were "being American patriots!!"



Sound familiar?
No.

Most accounts I'm familiar with of the Boston Tea Party regard it as a highly organized operation, carried out in a disciplined manner, which was something of a hallmark of The Sons of Liberty. Some of Governor Hutchinson's reports back to England even note this tendency in previous incidents (the Sugar Riots, the preventing of the navy from moving the Liberty, a seized ship belonging to John Hancock) as more disconcerting than if it had been "out of control barbarians" as some officials at the customs board were claiming.

There was no "pub crawl from Concord." The group left from a public meeting held right there in Boston, of which several had been taking place in the days leading up to the incident.

Only one person was ever arrested in connection to the operation, Francis Akeley.

No property damage was recorded other than the destroyed tea. No looting or ransacking of the ships took place, even according to the ships' owners.

One person was reported to have attempted to steal some of the tea for themselves and was admonished for it.

One padlock on one ship was broken, but was promptly replaced the next day.

The ships were swept, cleaned, and all disrupted items placed back where they belonged.

No physical violence or bodily injuries occurred.

This was a major escalation of rebellious activity beyond passive resistance and legal decrees from quasi-public authorities. Great care was taken to keep it in line.

ETA: Having personally attended many incidents of civil unrest to document them or studied others very closely through embedded livestreams, I will say no left or right protests in the U.S. stand out to me in the last dozen or so years as coming anywhere close to the kind of discipline attributed to pre-revolutionary or civil rights era stuff. Other examples I respect are the overthrow of Milosevich and Mubarak. It's been a real **** show here in the states compared to those.

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Old 10th August 2022, 12:19 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Not really: they attacked a freighter, not the governor's mansion or the courts or whatever the seat of authority in colonial America was at the time.
The governor was the person in whom royal authority was placed.

Interestingly, Governor Hutchinson was as brazen as the patriots in basically putting the Dartmouth in the middle of the issue.

The captain was willing to just depart without unloading the tea. The governor used the strict letter of the law to force the issue.

A ship could not depart without clearing customs, which meant...unloading the declared cargo.

Then the further issue was that a ship had 20 days to pay their customs duties or would be seized by the customs agents and then...yup...have their cargo unloaded.

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Old 10th August 2022, 01:10 AM   #180
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While right wing Twitter accounts issue threats of war and retribution, and right wing propaganda outlets like Faux News and Newsmax lose their minds over the FBI raid on Mar-a-Lardo, one Liberal commentator has kept his head, and delivered a clear and calm appraisal of the situation...

The Last Word - watch time 10 minutes
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Lawrence: ‘There Is No Uprising’ For Trump After FBI Search

For those who don't like videos, here is a partial transcript.

On social media last night one empty-headed Trump supporter got a lot of attention with a Tweet to his 1.9 million followers on Twitter saying "Tomorrow is war, sleep well".

They are still sleeping. The 1.9 million Twitter followers who may have seen that Tweet slept very very well and none of them, not one of them went to war today, including the guy who wrote the Tweet.

Outside Donald Trump's home in Florida there were more members of the news media today than Trump supporters. A couple of dozen Trump supporters showed up throughout the course of the day. None of them were ready for war, but they did enjoy talking on TV...

* clip of an short interview with a MAGA moron called Justin *

That guy's not going to war for Donald Trump; Justin's not going to war for Donald Trump. Hold a flag for a while - that's about it. The Washington Post interviewed Trump supporters outside of Mar-a-Largo today and they found one woman who travelled all of five miles from her home to wave an American flag near Donald Trump's home. Remember now, here is some numerical perspective to what you're seeing on that little bridge near Mar-a-Lago. There are 5.6 million Trump voters just in the state of Florida - millions of them live within an hour's drive of Mar-a-Lago - and virtually all of them stayed home today... did nothing. 5.6 million Trump voters in Florida did absolutely nothing after Donald Trump's home was searched by FBI agents yesterday who obtained the search warrant from a Florida federal judge. America was not torn apart by that search warrant as right-wing social media would want you to believe, and as the Fox Propaganda Channel would want you to believe. There is no outrage, there is no uprising. If you take the TV cameras away there, there will be zero Trump supporters outside of Mar-a-Lago.

74 million Trump voters today did absolutely nothing in response to the FBI search of Donald Trump's home. 74 million Trump voters in this country - and they did nothing. Social media and the news media will continue to distort the public reaction to the federal investigation of Donald Trump by amplifying wildly Tweets from people who don't mean a single word they say, and by sticking microphones and cameras in the faces of the microscopically tiny group of individuals who have raced to the TV news cameras at Mar-a-Lago, and the news media will steadfastly ignore the 5.6 million Trump voters in Florida who are staying home and doing nothing.

Donald Trump, who measures his very self-worth by the size of his crowds, has to be crushed by the, in effect, zero turnout of a crowd anywhere - a crowd in public support of him that is not a crowd, that those TV cameras are aiming at down at Mar-a-Lago. There is plenty of room between each one of those individuals who have travelled apparently a very short distance to be there - no crowd at all - zero crowd. Nowhere in America is there a crowd today or tonight for Donald Trump.


He's right! The average American doesn't give a fat rat's arse about this, or does, but can't be bothered doing or saying anything. Oh sure, some MAGA Morons and other occupants of the "basket of deplorables" including politicians like Kevin Spineless and Marjorie Traitor-Greene, are raging into the void, but nobody is listening... because nobody cares any more.
.
.
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Old 10th August 2022, 01:14 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
you know who knows the answer to that?

Trump.
He has the Search Warrant, but hasn't made it public.
I wonder why ...
It's an official document, so he flushed it down the loo?
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Old 10th August 2022, 01:41 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Even the original Boston Tea Party bore much in common with the Capital Riot: A bunch of drunken thugs with a gripe, having done an extended pub-crawl from Concord or thereabouts and then dressing themselves up as "Indians" as a disguise, crowded onto a freighter in Boston harbour and started throwing **** into the water. Some of it happened to be tea-crates. Arrested within minutes and quietly plopped in the cells to sober up, they claimed they were "being American patriots!!"

Sound familiar?
Yeah, I think that's way too flattering a parallel for the MAGAbots. That's how they see themselves.
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Old 10th August 2022, 01:43 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by SteveAitch View Post
It's an official document, so he flushed it down the loo?
Probably ordered it to be shredded so the FBI couldn't get their hands on it!!!






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Old 10th August 2022, 01:44 AM   #184
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Oh, and for entertainment, a great monologue from Stephen Colbert today...

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Old 10th August 2022, 01:58 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Yeah, I think that's way too flattering a parallel for the MAGAbots. That's how they see themselves.
Its remarkable how perception can be different for different individuals, for example

This is how I see my dog...



And this is how she sees herself when the doorbell rings...

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Old 10th August 2022, 04:31 AM   #186
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My personal theory is:

Trump, realizing that he would actually have to leave the WH, and expecting criminal prosecution, decided to take as much of as highly sensitive material as possible with him as a bargaining chip with the Biden Administration.
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Old 10th August 2022, 04:55 AM   #187
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Has any pro trumper tried to articulate why the raid is bad, or are they still just content to engage in performative declaration that it is bad?
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Old 10th August 2022, 05:10 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I'm surprised they actually had to break into the safe. (Well, Trump says they did...)

You just know he had a Post-It with the combination on it stuck to the front.
More likely he never locked it because he can't work the dial with his tiny hands. also, he "accidentally" leaves it open so guests can see whatever gold plated trinkets he keeps in it
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Old 10th August 2022, 05:25 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Has any pro trumper tried to articulate why the raid is bad, or are they still just content to engage in performative declaration that it is bad?
Most of what I've seen so far is along the lines of "other people have done bad things too so the raid is unfair".

Also lots of left=nazis and left=Big Brother from 1984.
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Old 10th August 2022, 05:29 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
My personal theory is:

Trump, realizing that he would actually have to leave the WH, and expecting criminal prosecution, decided to take as much of as highly sensitive material as possible with him as a bargaining chip with the Biden Administration.
Even for Trump that sounds like a poorly thought out and stupid plan.

If he took stuff as bargaining chips, it was very much not to bargain with the US.

Among all the other damage Trump has done we now have to deal with the very real possibility that a former US President is a massive security leak just waiting to happen.

Bush was such a bad President it was comical but at least with him we don't have to worry about him sneaking out of the country one cool summer evening with a briefcase full of documents and flash drives and taking a flight to Moscow so he and Putin can recreate that scene in Indecent Proposal except its Putin instead of Demi Moore and instead of 100 dollar bills being rolled around in while naked on the bed it's Stealth Bomber blueprints and Taiwan defense plans.
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Old 10th August 2022, 05:29 AM   #191
I Am The Scum
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Has any pro trumper tried to articulate why the raid is bad, or are they still just content to engage in performative declaration that it is bad?
Alan Dershowitz said, "The law is clear, you don't engage in a raid unless you've exhausted all the other remedies." However, this is false. There is no such law.
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Old 10th August 2022, 05:31 AM   #192
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Again we're post fact and post shame so the main Republican argument is going to be a billion and one minor variations on "It's unfair the being wrong has consequences that the side that is not wrong doesn't have to put up with."

They are trying their best to sell their cult members on the idea the being factually correct, morally not evil, and acting within the law should not give "one side" an advantage.
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Old 10th August 2022, 05:39 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Again we're post fact and post shame so the main Republican argument is going to be a billion and one minor variations on "It's unfair the being wrong has consequences that the side that is not wrong doesn't have to put up with."

They are trying their best to sell their cult members on the idea the being factually correct, morally not evil, and acting within the law should not give "one side" an advantage.
Keep in mind that we're also going to see a handful of well-meaning people arguing that former presidents and possible presidential candidates are immune to the law. They won't actually spell it out with those words, but they will do everything in their power to imply it.
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Old 10th August 2022, 05:40 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Even for Trump that sounds like a poorly thought out and stupid plan.

If he took stuff as bargaining chips, it was to bargain with the US.

Among all the other damage Trump has done we now have to deal with the very real possibility that a former US President is a massive security leak just waiting to happen.

Bush was such a bad President it was comical but at least with him we don't have to worry about him sneaking out of the country one cool summer evening with a briefcase full of documents and flash drives and take a flight to Moscow so he and Putin and recreate that scene in Indecent Proposal except its Putin instead of Demi Moore and instead of 100 dollar bills being rolled around in while naked it's Stealth Bomber blueprints and Taiwan defense plans.
you...gave that a lot of thought
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Old 10th August 2022, 05:52 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
you...gave that a lot of thought
I almost added "While Trump watches and says 'What a lovely tea party'" to the end but I assume that was too vague of a movie reference.
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Old 10th August 2022, 06:52 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Alan Dershowitz said, "The law is clear, you don't engage in a raid unless you've exhausted all the other remedies." However, this is false. There is no such law.
And shoot, as far as we know, they DID exhaust all the other possibilities.
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Old 10th August 2022, 07:20 AM   #197
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Has the DoJ and FBI earned the credibility granted to them in this situation? Or has their bad behavior warrant rejection of the assumption that they are acting in good faith? Should the starting point be a pox on both houses and dismiss claims on either side until evidence is presented?
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Old 10th August 2022, 08:01 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Has the DoJ and FBI earned the credibility granted to them in this situation? Or has their bad behavior warrant rejection of the assumption that they are acting in good faith? Should the starting point be a pox on both houses and dismiss claims on either side until evidence is presented?
Nobody is suggesting the DoJ and FBI should always be trusted at all times.

But there are currently checks and balances in the system.

The FBI could not execute the search warrant against Trump unless they convinced a judge that there was probable cause. Intelligence agencies are subject to congressional oversight. Whistleblowers can report problems that were not caught other ways.
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Old 10th August 2022, 08:03 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Nobody is suggesting the DoJ and FBI should always be trusted at all times.

But there are currently checks and balances in the system.

The FBI could not execute the search warrant against Trump unless they convinced a judge that there was probable cause. Intelligence agencies are subject to congressional oversight. Whistleblowers can report problems that were not caught other ways.
And seriously this is probably going to be the most scruitinized raid in american history, merely as ass covering you would expect then Judge and officers involved to make sure everything is not just above board but 2 feet above board like how Dana sleeps above the covers in Ghostbusters.
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Old 10th August 2022, 08:14 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Has the DoJ and FBI earned the credibility granted to them in this situation? Or has their bad behavior warrant rejection of the assumption that they are acting in good faith? Should the starting point be a pox on both houses and dismiss claims on either side until evidence is presented?
Given that the Director of the FBI is a Trump appointee, and the Head of the DOJ a Biden appointee, at least the question of Partisanship should be irrelevant.
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