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Old 10th July 2017, 06:48 PM   #1
Travis
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Republicans do hate education

See poll results which show Republicans believe having a degree means you are a bad, bad person.

http://www.people-press.org/2017/07/...-institutions/

Specifically see how 58% of Republicans say that universities are bad for America. And see that this only happened in the past year. Prior to 2015 Republicans still saw education as a good thing. Now they hate it because they see it as an assault on their Beloved Trump God.

Or maybe it is part of the larger trend where Republicans simply hate everything "libtards" love? Because 72% of Democrats still think universities are a good thing.

I expect yoga instruction to be outlawed, punishable by catapult, any day now.
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Old 10th July 2017, 07:25 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I expect yoga instruction to be outlawed, punishable by catapult, any day now.
Ironically, that is what the stereotypical college SJW cuck is calling for.

Maybe this is due to the culture war, safe spaces, free speech, no platforming, etc. that cropped up and not any of your "theories". Just maybe.
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Old 10th July 2017, 07:58 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I expect yoga instruction to be outlawed, punishable by catapult, any day now.
Works for me.
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Old 10th July 2017, 09:29 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Works for me.
But what if the yoga instruction is teaching how to do the Ballista pose?
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Old 10th July 2017, 09:39 PM   #5
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It's interesting to see the breakdown by age. It's probably due to culture war given the ages.
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Old 10th July 2017, 10:08 PM   #6
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Generational culture war is a good indicator of future changes and innovations.
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Old 10th July 2017, 10:13 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
Ironically, that is what the stereotypical college SJW cuck is calling for.

Maybe this is due to the culture war, safe spaces, free speech, no platforming, etc. that cropped up and not any of your "theories". Just maybe.
Rather than being IT i am waging that this is the PERCEPTION of it happening which is the problem. I am betting that in reality in t hose institution there is far more learning than anything else hapenning, and what you cited are only a few incidents here and there, mostly orchestrated, and mostly having no impact on the real purpose of the institutions. Just maybe.
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Old 10th July 2017, 10:15 PM   #8
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Anither example of it is when you look at youth violence or murder rate, there are *perceptions* of society getting worst by older generations, but factually it is not getting worst, it is getting better.
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Old 11th July 2017, 02:01 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
Rather than being IT i am waging that this is the PERCEPTION of it happening which is the problem. I am betting that in reality in t hose institution there is far more learning than anything else hapenning, and what you cited are only a few incidents here and there, mostly orchestrated, and mostly having no impact on the real purpose of the institutions. Just maybe.
Possible, but in this case the difference is... academic .
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Old 11th July 2017, 04:12 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
See poll results which show Republicans believe having a degree means you are a bad, bad person.

http://www.people-press.org/2017/07/...-institutions/

Specifically see how 58% of Republicans say that universities are bad for America.
Are you aware that the hilighted part is not actually what the poll means?

The irony here is thick.

Quote:
And see that this only happened in the past year. Prior to 2015 Republicans still saw education as a good thing. Now they hate it because they see it as an assault on their Beloved Trump God.
Or, they're becoming more aware of **** like what's going on at Evergreen, which really has nothing to do with Trump at all.

Quote:
I expect yoga instruction to be outlawed, punishable by catapult, any day now.
That's more likely to come from liberals than conservatives.

Again, the irony is thick.
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Old 11th July 2017, 04:20 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
Ironically, that is what the stereotypical college SJW cuck is calling for.

Maybe this is due to the culture war, safe spaces, free speech, no platforming, etc. that cropped up and not any of your "theories". Just maybe.
You also hate universities?
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Old 11th July 2017, 04:45 AM   #12
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A hatred of education explains DeVos as education secretary.
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Old 11th July 2017, 04:51 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
See poll results which show Republicans believe having a degree means you are a bad, bad person.
Where in that link does it say that?
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Old 11th July 2017, 04:52 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
You also hate universities?
Where in his post does he say that?




Seriously, there's a difference between saying that institution X has a negative impact because of the current culture, and saying you hate X or think people associated with X are bad people.
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Old 11th July 2017, 05:21 AM   #15
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But 42% of Repubs do not. So is it fair to say "repubs hate education" when you are 42% wrong?
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Old 11th July 2017, 06:00 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
But 42% of Repubs do not. So is it fair to say "repubs hate education" when you are 42% wrong?
36% percent of republicans think places of higher-learning have a positive effect on the US. Moreover just 10% think that the "national news media" has a positive effect on the US.

Seriously, there's something really wrong with Republicans. Their worldview is becoming increasingly demented.
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Old 11th July 2017, 06:08 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
See poll results which show Republicans believe having a degree means you are a bad, bad person.

http://www.people-press.org/2017/07/...-institutions/

Specifically see how 58% of Republicans say that universities are bad for America. And see that this only happened in the past year. Prior to 2015 Republicans still saw education as a good thing. Now they hate it because they see it as an assault on their Beloved Trump God.

Or maybe it is part of the larger trend where Republicans simply hate everything "libtards" love? Because 72% of Democrats still think universities are a good thing.

I expect yoga instruction to be outlawed, punishable by catapult, any day now.

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Old 11th July 2017, 06:46 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
36% percent of republicans think places of higher-learning have a positive effect on the US. Moreover just 10% think that the "national news media" has a positive effect on the US.

Seriously, there's something really wrong with Republicans. Their worldview is becoming increasingly demented.
They are absolutely right about the news media, there's something wrong with anyone who doesn't see that.

Crime has been going done for 20 years but Americans have consistently reported thinking crime was going up. This is almost certainly in part due to the media coverage of crime increasing or staying flat during this same period. It almost certainly aided Trump's campaign.

https://www.brennancenter.org/blog/a...on-crime-rates
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Old 11th July 2017, 06:55 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
They are absolutely right about the news media, there's something wrong with anyone who doesn't see that.
That's nice. There's always been something wrong with the news media. However what's specifically wrong with it, in your view?
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Old 11th July 2017, 07:14 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
That's nice. There's always been something wrong with the news media. However what's specifically wrong with it, in your view?
Its nice that you cut out the example I gave. At best the mains stream media gives a distorted view of the world in search of ratings. At worst they're pushing an agenda, Fox stumping for republicans, CNN stumping for anti-Trump. The three networks supply sensational headlines and call it news. As I noted, before, we think the world is more dangerous than its ever been when the US at least is as safe as its been in my lifetime. There's also issues with Man bites dog. We see the stories about kids getting kidnapped by strangers or pretty young women getting murdered, or cops killing black men but the ignore the much more common, teen boys killing one another in gang disputes, kids getting molested by uncles and teachers rather than complete strangers. Not only do we think the world is more dangerous than it really is, we think the risks are completely different than what they actually are.

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Old 11th July 2017, 07:24 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Its nice that you cut out the example I gave.
What difference does it make? Single examples do not prove your claim.

Quote:
At best the mains stream media gives a distorted view of the world in search of ratings.
Which is what you get when they private businesses.

Quote:
At worst they're pushing an agenda, Fox stumping for republicans, CNN stumping for anti-Trump.
It's be even worse if the media _weren't_ private businesses.
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Old 11th July 2017, 07:32 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
What difference does it make? Single examples do not prove your claim.
A single claim including a link to a study that shows the media has consistently misinformed Americans. They've been doing long before the news divisions stopped be a prestige loss leader as well.
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Old 11th July 2017, 07:33 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
A single claim including a link to a study that shows the media has consistently misinformed Americans. They've been doing long before the news divisions stopped be a prestige loss leader as well.
I'd be arguing that they've been doing that since Guttenberg but that's just the nature of the beast. How would you solve that?
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Old 11th July 2017, 07:44 AM   #24
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The poll results are discouraging, sure. But, Travis, did you notice that over a quarter of Democrats "hate education" and "believe having a degree means you are a bad, bad person?"

Or maybe there's some other reason persons would answer the poll the way they did. Don't be too damned keen on pointing out the Republicans 58% when the Democrats have 28% answering the same way. That's not a comforting fact about Democratic opinions.
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Old 11th July 2017, 07:51 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
The poll results are discouraging, sure. But, Travis, did you notice that over a quarter of Democrats "hate education" and "believe having a degree means you are a bad, bad person?"

Or maybe there's some other reason persons would answer the poll the way they did. Don't be too damned keen on pointing out the Republicans 58% when the Democrats have 28% answering the same way. That's not a comforting fact about Democratic opinions.
The bitch about democracy is how much people living in one tend to hate democracy!
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Old 11th July 2017, 07:57 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I'd be arguing that they've been doing that since Guttenberg but that's just the nature of the beast. How would you solve that?
End limited liability would be a good first step.
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Old 11th July 2017, 09:01 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
At worst they're pushing an agenda, Fox stumping for republicans, CNN stumping for anti-Trump.
Media taking political sides is NOT a problem. In fact, itís the mediaís job in some sense. In many political debates the facts are going to favor one side over the other and simply presenting the facts is effectively taking sides. What can become a problem is if you have a national media organization taking a partisan side regardless of the underlying facts. As long as itís the facts drive the reporting and not the reporting inventing itís own facts there is no problem with media taking sides.
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Old 11th July 2017, 09:03 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Media taking political sides is NOT a problem. In fact, it’s the media’s job in some sense. In many political debates the facts are going to favor one side over the other and simply presenting the facts is effectively taking sides. What can become a problem is if you have a national media organization taking a partisan side regardless of the underlying facts. As long as it’s the facts drive the reporting and not the reporting inventing it’s own facts there is no problem with media taking sides.
Right.
That is why, traditionally, newspapers and TV-stations separate news and opinion pieces, and mark the distinction clearly.
It's a flaw both or editors and readers for not being able to tell one from the other.
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Old 11th July 2017, 09:12 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Specifically see how 58% of Republicans say that universities are bad for America. And see that this only happened in the past year. Prior to 2015 Republicans still saw education as a good thing. Now they hate it because they see it as an assault on their Beloved Trump God.

There has always been an undercurrent of dislike for higher education, or at least a belief that it teaches useless material. The classic criticism of teaching classes in "underwater basket weaving" dates back to at least the 1950s.
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Old 11th July 2017, 09:21 AM   #30
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I'm guessing that yoga seems bad for liberals because of the "warrior" poses? Or is it the conservatives who don't approve of the gender-bending mermaid?
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Old 11th July 2017, 10:27 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
I'm guessing that yoga seems bad for liberals because of the "warrior" poses? Or is it the conservatives who don't approve of the gender-bending mermaid?
I was going to guess that the issue is "cultural appropriation"...
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Old 11th July 2017, 10:46 AM   #32
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University culture and fear of it brainwashing people into being liberal is part of it.

But there is a rising trend of anti-intellectualism in the Republican party.

I've seen many examples where a republican will attack someone for appearing to be knowledgeable on a subject. Their assumption seems to be because they know so little, everyone else must not know either. Who knew health care could be so complicated? So anyone who provides context and detail on a topic isn't more knowledgeable, they're just pseudo intellectual liars, and therefore those big stupid smarties are actually inferior.

I literally had one tell me that they think the problems today are because we think too much and we need to think less.
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Old 11th July 2017, 12:22 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
There has always been an undercurrent of dislike for higher education, or at least a belief that it teaches useless material. The classic criticism of teaching classes in "underwater basket weaving" dates back to at least the 1950s.
Indeed. Anti-intellectualism and contempt towards collages/universities has, at least for a very long time, been a significant undercurrent among Republican voters. It has unofficially been the party of dumb-dumb and it shows by some of the dumbest US presidents ever such as Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan and George W Bush. The same applies with contempt towards media and the press, although I'm not sure if it's a more recent development.

This undercurrent of anti-intellectualism and hostility towards the "mainstream media" has over time grown to become unifying party belief.
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Old 11th July 2017, 01:40 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
Ironically, that is what the stereotypical college SJW cuck is calling for.

Maybe this is due to the culture war, safe spaces, free speech, no platforming, etc. that cropped up and not any of your "theories". Just maybe.
I love the pileup of snarl phrases, as usual used with little to no clue what they mean or why anyone should care.

"Culture war, safe space, no platform, latte-sipping, arugula eating, tree hugging, hippy loving...send them back to Massachusetts where they came from."
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Old 11th July 2017, 02:01 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
See poll results which show Republicans believe having a degree means you are a bad, bad person.
Lie. Outrageous hyperbole is not an endearing quality, though you seem determined to make that your thing.

Originally Posted by casebro View Post
But 42% of Repubs do not. So is it fair to say "repubs hate education" when you are 42% wrong?
Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
University culture and fear of it brainwashing people into being liberal is part of it.

This poll has everything to do with the latest election and nothing else.

Everything in the OP shows this to be the case. We are seeing liberal colleges with their wacky ways, and it has become more obvious how full of dung the media is, or can be.

"Universities are bad for America"? Do you actually think this is what most Republicans think, Travis? This OP reads like it was written by a used car salesman - 100% bull.

I don't even like the Republican party. I find myself defending some rather dubious groups and personalities here at this forum (Milo), mainly because of hyperbole or outright lies. You're giving more ammo to "the other side" every time you do so.
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Old 11th July 2017, 02:04 PM   #36
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There is of course a difference between College/Universities as "institutions" and education, but I see that horse left the barn in the OP.
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Old 12th July 2017, 05:14 AM   #37
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Nothing new. Education=atheism. Let them go to community college and learn hating and air conditioning.

Let's see, new Republican ideas...er, cut taxes? Take down big government? Fresh out of new ideas. It's like thinking up a new ad for Charmin toilet paper. I got it: liberal ideas about women. We'll start with abortion.
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Old 12th July 2017, 09:49 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
This poll has everything to do with the latest election and nothing else.
This, I agree with. Although, it's a vague statement. The interpretation I agree with is that the last election clarified this viewpoint among many Republicans who responded differently in previous years. (worth noting that the survey is annual, and this year saw a jump in Republicans agreeing to the statement versus 2015)


Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Everything in the OP shows this to be the case. We are seeing liberal colleges with their wacky ways, and it has become more obvious how full of dung the media is, or can be.
Well, that's been a gradual trend, but the newsworthiness this year is that 2015-2016 had a huge jump among Republicans and a slight decline among Democrats, which widens the Republican vs Democrat gap on this topic to an all time high.



Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
"Universities are bad for America"? Do you actually think this is what most Republicans think, Travis? This OP reads like it was written by a used car salesman - 100% bull.
Not sure what part you actually think is bull (?) - the survey is what it is.


Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I don't even like the Republican party. I find myself defending some rather dubious groups and personalities here at this forum (Milo), mainly because of hyperbole or outright lies. You're giving more ammo to "the other side" every time you do so.
The other side doesn't need ammo. They invented everything from Swiftboat to Pizzagate. If their opponents didn't create juicy quotes, they'd just make them up anyway.
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Old 12th July 2017, 10:04 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
"Universities are bad for America"? Do you actually think this is what most Republicans think, Travis? This OP reads like it was written by a used car salesman - 100% bull.

I don't even like the Republican party. I find myself defending some rather dubious groups and personalities here at this forum (Milo), mainly because of hyperbole or outright lies. You're giving more ammo to "the other side" every time you do so.

I was raised Religious Right Republican back during the Reagan years for the most part, and "universities are bad for America" was very much a popular meme in the community at that time. Or rather, it was, "secular universities are bad for America"; and the push was very strong for Christian universities; institutions such as Bob Jones and Oral Roberts universities being the big names among the Evangelical communities. The point, of course, was to ensure sufficient Christian indoctrination, and prevent Christians from being exposed to ungodly stuff like science and critical thinking and other subjects that "contradict Biblical principles".

As the power of the Religious Right wing of the GOP grew, so did the inherent anti-intellectualism of the Right in general, and the push away from secular university education.

There has always been a streak of anti-intellectualism in the US, going back to its earliest days; and the Evangelical and Fundamentalist Christian movements have exacerbated that to a great degree. While the upper-class Republicans still push for university education, not being particularly closely associated with the more fanatical Christian movements, the rank and file is increasingly anti-education.

This is due in large part to the fundamentally black-and-white, for-us-or-against-us worldview and thought processes common to the intensely religious. Anything that challenges or criticizes their worldview in any way is inherently evil, and guilt-by-association tars a great deal more with the same brush, whether that's education or the news media. With regard to the latter, they also seem to be fundamentally unable to separate factual reporting from editorial opinion; mainly because in their worldview there is no distinct line between the two.

With the GOP pandering increasingly to the far-right, their power base has become increasingly anti-intellectual, and the Trump administration has taken advantage of this trend and actively courted the anti-intellectual far-right due to the ease with which they can be manipulated.

An interesting article that parallels my own experience quite closely:

An Insider's View: The Dark Rigidity of Fundamentalist Rural America

There is also a problem with anti-intellectualism on the Left, but it's far smaller, and often stereotyped as "fluffy-bunny hippies"; not without some justification. The far-left anti-intellectualism is less pronounced, and more concerned with very specific areas of the sciences, mostly medicine and "scary" technologies such as nuclear power and GMO food. In general, the mainstream Democrats treat them as a lunatic fringe instead of pandering to them, and they have less influence amongst even fringe left parties like the Greens than the anti-intellectual far-right increasingly has on the mainstream GOP.
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Last edited by luchog; 12th July 2017 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 12th July 2017, 10:31 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
I was raised Religious Right Republican back during the Reagan years for the most part, and "universities are bad for America" was very much a popular meme in the community at that time. Or rather, it was, "secular universities are bad for America"; and the push was very strong for Christian universities; institutions such as Bob Jones and Oral Roberts universities being the big names among the Evangelical communities. The point, of course, was to ensure sufficient Christian indoctrination, and prevent Christians from being exposed to ungodly stuff like science and critical thinking and other subjects that "contradict Biblical principles".

As the power of the Religious Right wing of the GOP grew, so did the inherent anti-intellectualism of the Right in general, and the push away from secular university education.

There has always been a streak of anti-intellectualism in the US, going back to its earliest days; and the Evangelical and Fundamentalist Christian movements have exacerbated that to a great degree. While the upper-class Republicans still push for university education, not being particularly closely associated with the more fanatical Christian movements, the rank and file is increasingly anti-education.

This is due in large part to the fundamentally black-and-white, for-us-or-against-us worldview and thought processes common to the intensely religious. Anything that challenges or criticizes their worldview in any way is inherently evil, and guilt-by-association tars a great deal more with the same brush, whether that's education or the news media. With regard to the latter, they also seem to be fundamentally unable to separate factual reporting from editorial opinion; mainly because in their worldview there is no distinct line between the two.

With the GOP pandering increasingly to the far-right, their power base has become increasingly anti-intellectual, and the Trump administration has taken advantage of this trend and actively courted the anti-intellectual far-right due to the ease with which they can be manipulated.

An interesting article that parallels my own experience quite closely:

An Insider's View: The Dark Rigidity of Fundamentalist Rural America

There is also a problem with anti-intellectualism on the Left, but it's far smaller, and often stereotyped as "fluffy-bunny hippies"; not without some justification. The far-left anti-intellectualism is less pronounced, and more concerned with very specific areas of the sciences, mostly medicine and "scary" technologies such as nuclear power and GMO food. In general, the mainstream Democrats treat them as a lunatic fringe instead of pandering to them, and they have less influence amongst even fringe left parties like the Greens than the anti-intellectual far-right increasingly has on the mainstream GOP.
This is something I have been concentrating on as a Skeptical topic. There's academic research that can be read an analyzed, and there's a recent nonfiction book released in March ("[The Death of Expertise: The Campaign Against Established Knowledge and Why It Matters]") that I found an interesting read, with caveats. (specifically, there is an entire chapter that comes across as a professor grousing about Kids Today and their Bubblegums and Rock And Roll...)

So, here's my main concern... I have been developing a thesis that Skepticism is riding this wave, rather than resisting it. ie: we're part of the trend, not a solution to it. My exit from organized skepticism was largely precipitated by my local chapter adopting a policy of "Science advocacy means educating the public that climate change is a liberal hoax. Citing any so-called expert is a fallacious Appeal to Authority - do your own research or shut up."

Exit blutoski, never went back.
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