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Tags 911 conspiracy theory , cit , disinfo , ground zero , loose change , WAC , wtc

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Old 23rd October 2008, 02:43 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by ULTIMA1 View Post
Of equal or even greater significance during this initial impact was the explosion when 90,000 L gallons of jet fuel, comprising nearly 1/3 of the aircraft’s weight, ignited. The ensuing fire was clearly the principal cause of the collapse.
If I'm understanding the exchange correctly, this article is supposed to contradict NIST. It doesn't, really; NIST goes into further detail about what effects the fire had on the structure, and this JOM piece perhaps puts more emphasis on the fire than the damage. But that's to be expected; it was released in 2001, and did not have the benefit of the steel study, video analysis, or other information that NIST did. The fire was, in a sense, the principle cause of the collapse, because it weakened a damaged structure to the point it could not support the upper section, and that ended up being fatal to the entire building. But at the same time, it's not going to have the sort of information or detail that the NIST report would, because it's an early work, not the results of a long study.

As further documentation of the fact that this article is an early work: There's a line in it saying "For a more complete. updated analysis of the World Trade Center towers collapse, read “The Role of Metallurgy in the NIST Investigation of the World Trade Center Towers Collapse” in the December 2007 issue". That clearly demonstrates that even the journal publishing it does not consider this article to be the final word.

Anyway, given the fact that this is an early work - again, it was published in 2001 - why should it be considered more authoritative than the NIST report? It was those authors best effort to that date, but it shouldn't supercede NIST's work. As the link to a later article demonstrates, even the journal agrees with that.
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Old 23rd October 2008, 02:49 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by ULTIMA1 View Post
The fact that the letter states it found the specific document i was looking for does mean that.

Please read the letter i recieved from NSA. It clearly states that i requested a document about the interception of the aircraft not the intecept of phone or radio calls. Both NSA and I would have specifed the difference.

No because of the job i have means i understand a lot more then you.
They were just quoting what you said in your request, genius. That doesn't mean the documents that they found are the same.

When you are writing your reports, do they care about you making all kinds of spelling and grammar errors?
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Old 23rd October 2008, 02:51 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by ULTIMA1 View Post
Can you read?

The NIST report stated it was a COMBINATION of impact and fire.

This articel states the fire was the main cause, NOT A COMBINATION OF IMAPCT AND FIRE.
Wait a minute... if you're thinking that JOM article is the final word, then you need to read what I just posted previous to this.

On top of that, you need to consider this line:

Quote:
While the aircraft impact undoubtedly destroyed several columns in the WTC perimeter wall, the number of columns lost on the initial impact was not large and the loads were shifted to remaining columns in this highly redundant structure.
They are setting the stage for NIST's later analysis that the impact also caused damage stressing the structure. That line shows this. They perhaps overestimate the amount of redundancy in the structure and give a bad impression of what the building is supposed to be able to support, but they're not disagreeing with NIST at all. The loading and stress was discussed in NCSTAR 1-6, and that line agrees with that, despite the overoptimistic appraisal of the structure's redundancy.

You're misstating and misrepresenting things when you present the JOM article as contradicting NIST.
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Old 23rd October 2008, 02:56 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by ElMondoHummus View Post
Wait a minute... if you're thinking that JOM article is the final word, then you need to read what I just posted previous to this.

On top of that, you need to consider this line:



They are setting the stage for NIST's later analysis that the impact also caused damage stressing the structure. That line shows this. They perhaps overestimate the amount of redundancy in the structure and give a bad impression of what the building is supposed to be able to support, but they're not disagreeing with NIST at all. The loading and stress was discussed in NCSTAR 1-6, and that line agrees with that, despite the overoptimistic appraisal of the structure's redundancy.

You're misstating and misrepresenting things when you present the JOM article as contradicting NIST.
Imagine that, a twoofer doesn't understand his own article
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Old 23rd October 2008, 03:14 PM   #205
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Apparently, ULTIMA1 was threatening legal action against eBaum's World for banning him several months ago. I can't even make up stuff this ridiculous and funny.
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Old 23rd October 2008, 03:22 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by dtugg View Post
Apparently, ULTIMA1 was threatening legal action against eBaum's World for banning him several months ago. I can't even make up stuff this ridiculous and funny.
Its too bad for Ultima that lawyers don't care what 15 year olds have to say.
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Looks like the one on top has a magazine, thus needs less reloading. Also, the muzzle shroud makes it less likely for a spree killer to burn his hands. The pistol grip makes it more comfortable for the spree killer to shoot. thaiboxerken
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Old 23rd October 2008, 03:36 PM   #207
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9/11 Truthers are nothing more than babies. I mean they will cry murder if you prove them wrong. Then they claim that we're "attacking" them. Well we're not attacking them, we're attacking their logical reasoning about 9/11.

How would they feel if someone came up and told them that they saw one of their family members committing a crime (murder, burglary, ect.)? Would they want the facts and evidence? I would like to think so!

All we're just asking for them is to prove to themselves that they have evidence to prove that 9/11 was an "Inside Job". And if they don't then why the hell don't they just let it go?

Why let themselves be fooled by the foolish? And why would they follow a fool?
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Old 23rd October 2008, 03:53 PM   #208
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Why don't debunkers just let it go? What does it matter what truthers think?
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Old 23rd October 2008, 04:01 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Why don't debunkers just let it go? What does it matter what truthers think?
It doesn't really matter what a bunch of crazy idiots believe. I post here out of boredom. I think that debunkers (I wouldn't call myself one), don't like twoofers spewing a bunch of terrorist apologizing nonsense to people that might believe it if there is no opposition.
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Old 23rd October 2008, 04:24 PM   #210
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SO as the wager goes, just as Ultima AGREED TO:

He must produce a VERIFIED Document from the NSA, that PROVES that UA93 WAS SHOT DOWN.

Anything outside of the above is a failure on his part, resulting in his voluntary withdrawl from this forum.

NOTE: VERIFIED, PROVES UA93 shot down.

In other words, the document must be VERIFIED as legitimate (hint, a jpeg image of something you could have easily doctored does not count). As well, once the document is verified, if MUST contain PROOF (not insinuation, or indirectly suggest) that UA93 was SHOT DOWN.

Good luck. I wait most anxiously...lol

TAM
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Old 23rd October 2008, 04:30 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
SO as the wager goes, just as Ultima AGREED TO:

He must produce a VERIFIED Document from the NSA, that PROVES that UA93 WAS SHOT DOWN.

Anything outside of the above is a failure on his part, resulting in his voluntary withdrawl from this forum.

NOTE: VERIFIED, PROVES UA93 shot down.

In other words, the document must be VERIFIED as legitimate (hint, a jpeg image of something you could have easily doctored does not count). As well, once the document is verified, if MUST contain PROOF (not insinuation, or indirectly suggest) that UA93 was SHOT DOWN.

Good luck. I wait most anxiously...lol

TAM


The NSA is a signals intelligence organisation. Their job is to intercept communication of interest. There is nothing the NSA could possibly possess that proves UA93 was shot down. The very best they can manage is an intercept of a communication by someone else saying UA93 was shot down. Against this we have a plethora of primary evidence that proves UA93 was not shot down.

The only thing of real interest that could be offered by the NSA would be something along the lines of an intercepted communication from the NTSB or FBI or similar pertaining to the "faking" of previously mentioned primary evidence.
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Old 23rd October 2008, 04:36 PM   #212
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Old 23rd October 2008, 04:46 PM   #213
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I just read this whole thread. Or I just had a psychotic break with reality, kinda hard to tell which at this point. From what I can gather, Joe Maddon did 9/11 because someone stole one of his NSA pay stubs, therefore the Phillies will beat the Raiders in the upcoming presidential election. Or something like that. And me, I'm still living on a white dwarf.

Ah, it's all coming together now...
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Old 23rd October 2008, 05:34 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by Stellafane View Post
And me, I'm still living on a white dwarf.

He must be very strong.
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Old 23rd October 2008, 05:46 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by dtugg View Post
Apparently, ULTIMA1 was threatening legal action against eBaum's World for banning him several months ago. I can't even make up stuff this ridiculous and funny.

As a Something Awful goon, if he could get the NSA to have Eric Bauman tossed into Guatanamo for about six months I'd join ultima's side in a heartbeat.
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Old 23rd October 2008, 06:10 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
NWO Memo 911-MED-X

All members of the NWO shall be anesthetized for the ENTIRE physical exam process. This is essential for proper installation of the Domination/Submission Chip E-142A.





TAM
Oh, I figured I was getting chipped alright. I admitted fully that I abused the privileges afforded me on my NWO VISA platinum cheque card under Section C, subparagraph ii:

"No strippers and / or lap dances shall be purchased with company funds unless express permission is granted by the Directorate and he's not left out of the loop, (He really likes the buxom one with the overbite) furthermore, a round of drinks would be nice and would it hurt to call sometime? You want to do something on Friday?"

So yeah, I knew some form of punishment was coming but really man, did you have to chip me... you know... down there? I mean, I can live with the initial discomfort of not being able to sit for a couple of days, that isn't a problem. Fact is that every time I'm in the bathroom, My TV won't stop changing channels and my garage door keeps opening and closing. I really wouldn't mind this either but it's frightening my cats. Please let me know if there's an alternative chip so the cat scratches can heal properly.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 23rd October 2008, 06:54 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by ULTIMA1 View Post
The fact that the letter states it found the specific document i was looking for does mean that.....Please read the letter i recieved from NSA. It clearly states that i requested a document about the interception of the aircraft not the intecept of phone or radio calls. Both NSA and I would have specifed the difference.......No because of the job i have means i understand a lot more then you.

I hope you appreciate how astounding your claim sounds to a lot of folks here and that you should not be surprised at all of the skeptical responses.

You are claiming to have already seen this document that you have requested and by that verify that 93 was intercepted and downed.

Did you come by this document just shortly before you filed your FOIA? You see, it is hard to believe that it has just been sitting somewhere for 7 years and no one else did anything like you are doing to reveal it. Also, one wonders how you happened to come upon it. Did you stumble upon it by yourself or did a fellow employee turn you on to it? And if the latter, are any other fellow employees privy to your FOIA request, meaning that they also are aware of this remarkable and momentuous event that the entire world does not know about? Have any of them spoken or written about it elsewhere, or are you the lone wolf in your department?
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Old 23rd October 2008, 07:09 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by Björn Toulouse View Post
I hope you appreciate how astounding your claim sounds to a lot of folks here and that you should not be surprised at all of the skeptical responses.

You are claiming to have already seen this document that you have requested and by that verify that 93 was intercepted and downed.

Did you come by this document just shortly before you filed your FOIA? You see, it is hard to believe that it has just been sitting somewhere for 7 years and no one else did anything like you are doing to reveal it. Also, one wonders how you happened to come upon it. Did you stumble upon it by yourself or did a fellow employee turn you on to it? And if the latter, are any other fellow employees privy to your FOIA request, meaning that they also are aware of this remarkable and momentuous event that the entire world does not know about? Have any of them spoken or written about it elsewhere, or are you the lone wolf in your department?
He read about the supposed document on some totally non-credible website.. Then he started a thread at ATS about it. When people started calling him on it, he claimed to have read it himself. Then he filed the FOIA request in an attempt to get people to believe him.
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Old 23rd October 2008, 07:18 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by dtugg View Post
He read about the supposed document on some totally non-credible website.. Then he started a thread at ATS about it. When people started calling him on it, he claimed to have read it himself. Then he filed the FOIA request in an attempt to get people to believe him.


I must have missed that. Now the plot is beginning to thicken thin. Just seeing Madsen's name is enough.
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Old 23rd October 2008, 11:36 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
The NSA is a signals intelligence organisation. Their job is to intercept communication of interest.
Well i see you know nothing about NSA at all. Thanks for proving that point.
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Old 23rd October 2008, 11:39 PM   #221
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Did I mention that while I was working at the CIA I cam across a document that shows the moon is made of cheese? I am in the process of getting an FOIA request for the document, but it's all true.
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Old 23rd October 2008, 11:41 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by Björn Toulouse View Post
You see, it is hard to believe that it has just been sitting somewhere for 7 years and no one else did anything like you are doing to reveal it.
Well we know believers do not like to do research becasue they do not want to find the truth that proves thier fantasy world wrong.

Quote:
Also, one wonders how you happened to come upon it. ?
Its something called research, something the beleivers seem to have a hard time with.
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Old 23rd October 2008, 11:43 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by Björn Toulouse View Post
I must have missed that. Now the plot is beginning to thicken thin. Just seeing Madsen's name is enough.
Its jsut too bad that the Letter from the NSA FOIA office supports my request and that the document exist.
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Old 24th October 2008, 12:52 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by tomwaits View Post
Brilliant.
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Old 24th October 2008, 01:56 AM   #225
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You know, I got this really weird pain trying to get my brain about the bit in this thread where ULTIMA1 claimed that those in the FBI etc don't speak out because they are Government employees afraid for their jobs, but then goes on to declare that he, as a Government Employee, is out to find the truth... Well hang on, if he's not afraid for his job in doing this and speaking out, why would those in the FBI etc be afraid for theirs?
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Old 24th October 2008, 02:15 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by dtugg View Post
Apparently, ULTIMA1 was threatening legal action against eBaum's World for banning him several months ago. I can't even make up stuff this ridiculous and funny.
Okay, if Ebaumsworld banned ULTIMA1, don't you think JREF should've banned him by now, too. Nearly 1000 posts of nonsense and he's still going strong. Pomperoo got banned, and he actually had something to say. What happened to the JREF standards that separated this forum from others?
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Old 24th October 2008, 02:27 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by UNLoVedRebel View Post
Okay, if Ebaumsworld banned ULTIMA1, don't you think JREF should've banned him by now, too.
Not unless he breached the rules of the JREF forum. What happens on other boards is irrelevant here.
And other members who got banned here, got banned for breaking the rules here, more than once.

If you feel there's anything inherently unfair in that, this discussion should be moved to the Forum Mgt section, so as not to derail, or require a split, from this thread.
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Old 24th October 2008, 02:50 AM   #228
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Seconded.
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Old 24th October 2008, 02:54 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts View Post
Seconded.
Which bit?
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Old 24th October 2008, 03:00 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by chillzero View Post
this discussion should be moved to the Forum Mgt section, so as not to derail, or require a split, from this thread.
This bit. Mods already have their hands full with this particular back alley, I'd imagine.[/thinly veiled derail]
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Old 24th October 2008, 03:53 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by gumboot View Post
The NSA is a signals intelligence organisation. Their job is to intercept communication of interest. There is nothing the NSA could possibly possess that proves UA93 was shot down. The very best they can manage is an intercept of a communication by someone else saying UA93 was shot down. Against this we have a plethora of primary evidence that proves UA93 was not shot down.

The only thing of real interest that could be offered by the NSA would be something along the lines of an intercepted communication from the NTSB or FBI or similar pertaining to the "faking" of previously mentioned primary evidence.
Well as you could probably tell, that was my point. I offered the wager, knowing he could not fulfill its limitations. Even (a big EVEN) if he is able to get a VERIFIED NSA Document that indicates within it someone radioing that UA93 was SHOT DOWN (intercepted does not cut it, the wager was over UA93 being SHOT DOWN), it is still just one radio communication. IT alone IS NOT PROOF that the flight was shot down.

It is why I know Ultima1 will eventually have to do the honorable thing and resign from JREF when his document does not turn out to be the holy grail.

TAM
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Old 24th October 2008, 04:58 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by dtugg View Post
Apparently, ULTIMA1 was threatening legal action against eBaum's World for banning him several months ago. I can't even make up stuff this ridiculous and funny.

Originally Posted by ULTIMA1 on ATS
Also please tell your MOD buddy at Eb that i am talking to a lawyer about him being biased and not haing a reason for banning me.
Has a trial date been set? On CNN yesterday, Greta Van Susteren and Roger Cossack were debating this case; but no mention of a trial date.

Last edited by Mince; 24th October 2008 at 05:15 AM.
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Old 24th October 2008, 05:52 AM   #233
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This thread has become devoted to swallowing troll bait. Perhaps that's good for the rest of the subforum, but it only encourages trolling. I won't be checking in here again.
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What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links
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Old 24th October 2008, 06:16 AM   #234
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Goodbye.
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Old 24th October 2008, 09:11 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by UNLoVedRebel View Post
Okay, if Ebaumsworld banned ULTIMA1, don't you think JREF should've banned him by now, too. Nearly 1000 posts of nonsense and he's still going strong. Pomperoo got banned, and he actually had something to say. What happened to the JREF standards that separated this forum from others?
Pomero got banned? Why?
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Looks like the one on top has a magazine, thus needs less reloading. Also, the muzzle shroud makes it less likely for a spree killer to burn his hands. The pistol grip makes it more comfortable for the spree killer to shoot. thaiboxerken
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Old 24th October 2008, 09:41 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by Quad4_72 View Post
Pomero got banned? Why?
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=126731
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Old 24th October 2008, 11:09 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
This thread has become devoted to swallowing troll bait. Perhaps that's good for the rest of the subforum, but it only encourages trolling. I won't be checking in here again.
I agree, there has been some baiting, and counter baiting, but like you said, it is good for the subforum, IF such can be contained to a single thread. Better for the mods as well.

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Old 24th October 2008, 12:02 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
Well as you could probably tell, that was my point. I offered the wager, knowing he could not fulfill its limitations. Even (a big EVEN) if he is able to get a VERIFIED NSA Document that indicates within it someone radioing that UA93 was SHOT DOWN (intercepted does not cut it, the wager was over UA93 being SHOT DOWN), it is still just one radio communication.

Gee, you really do not know anything about NSA and what they do.

Remember KAL Flight 007, the airliner that the Russian MIG shot down?

Well it was NSA that intercepted the radio traffic from the plane to ground control. They listened to everything going on between the pilot and ground control. Everything including the orders to shoot down the plane and the missile launch.
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Old 24th October 2008, 01:09 PM   #239
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Say, ULTIMA1, what did that lawyer say about you being banned at eBaum's World?
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Old 24th October 2008, 01:12 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by dtugg View Post
Say, ULTIMA1, what did that lawyer say about you being banned at eBaum's World?

Off topic and trolling again.
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