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Tags police incidents , police issues , police misconduct charges

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Old Yesterday, 04:43 AM   #2321
SuburbanTurkey
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Good cops quit.

The Cop Who Quit Instead of Helping to Gentrify Atlanta

Quote:
A homeowner in the area was very frank with me. He said the guys who own Bedford Pines got their tax bill last year, and their taxes were assessed based on all the gentrification that’s happening in the area. And so they wanted to move everybody out of these apartments and knock ’em down and rebuild these nice expensive apartments and the government said no. And so then they said, “Well, that’s ok, we’ll just increase the rent.” They tried to increase the rent and the Section 8 guys came back out and said, “No, you can’t do that either.”

The only way you can evict or do anything like that is if the person who owns the apartment is convicted of a felony. So the Bedford Pines guys just went to the police department and said: “We want you to police in here, and we’re going to give you a section of Bedford Pines to actually have office space. And I want you to lock up as many people as possible so we can make these apartments vacant and we can knock ’em down.”
https://www.motherjones.com/crime-ju...trify-atlanta/

The cop has since been the subject of a meritless animal and child abuse allegation, resulting in a DFCS investigation which found nothing. Seems very clear that this was retaliation for breaking the blue wall of silence.
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Old Yesterday, 09:43 AM   #2322
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6, that is the police moto so it totally exonerates them.

Really what else did the mother expect from the police? This is why you don't call the police.
I'd bet a beer that the mother didn't call the police.

She likely called "Emergency Services" (AKA 911), which sounds like the proper people to call during an emergency. Unfortunately, those services have been so cut back in their options, the only respondent they could send were the police, ambulance, or firefighters; Nothing was on fire or bleeding, so it gets dropped on the police. ES used to have more options, but that costs money that could be spent on something more flashy and thus more likely to get politicians re-elected, like tanks and sniper rifles for the police.
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Old Yesterday, 10:26 AM   #2323
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Only one officer charged in Breonna Taylor case and NOT for killing her.
Just for wild firing into nearby apartments.
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Old Yesterday, 10:27 AM   #2324
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Only one officer charged in Breonna Taylor case and NOT for killing her.
Just for wild firing into nearby apartments.
I'm surprised they got even that.
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Old Yesterday, 10:37 AM   #2325
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Originally Posted by GodMark2 View Post
I'd bet a beer that the mother didn't call the police.

She likely called "Emergency Services" (AKA 911), which sounds like the proper people to call during an emergency. Unfortunately, those services have been so cut back in their options, the only respondent they could send were the police, ambulance, or firefighters; Nothing was on fire or bleeding, so it gets dropped on the police. ES used to have more options, but that costs money that could be spent on something more flashy and thus more likely to get politicians re-elected, like tanks and sniper rifles for the police.
I've wondered whether in such circumstances it might be best to tell 911 something like the person is having a "seizure" to get an ambulance, instead of something like "my kid is out of control," which gets cops ready for a fight.
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Old Yesterday, 10:39 AM   #2326
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Only one officer charged in Breonna Taylor case and NOT for killing her.
Just for wild firing into nearby apartments.
Some commentators are making the point that the decision means cops can kill anybody they want as long as they aim better.
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Old Yesterday, 10:55 AM   #2327
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Some commentators are making the point that the decision means cops can kill anybody they want as long as they aim better.
That police-state that conservatives whine about only exists if a Democrat is in the white house. If a republican is in the white house, then it's just law and order...
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Old Yesterday, 10:57 AM   #2328
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So no one will be held responsible for the killing of Breonna Taylor? Just endangering her neighbours who were not killed?!
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Old Yesterday, 10:58 AM   #2329
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
So no one will be held responsible for the killing of Breonna Taylor? Just endangering her neighbours who were not killed?!
That's right. The killing was not criminal according to the state.
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Old Yesterday, 11:01 AM   #2330
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Some commentators are making the point that the decision means cops can kill anybody they want as long as they aim better.
They hit her five times out of just over twenty shots.
Is that a poor average?
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Old Yesterday, 11:03 AM   #2331
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
That's right. The killing was not criminal according to the state.
Despite the fact that the basis for the warrant was determined to be erroneous and the policeís version of events was contradicted by multiple witnesses.

The police can make up any story they want and get away with it. Itís a license to commit murder.
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Old Yesterday, 11:06 AM   #2332
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Despite the fact that the basis for the warrant was determined to be erroneous and the policeís version of events was contradicted by multiple witnesses.

The police can make up any story they want and get away with it. Itís a license to commit murder.
Yep the system still works as intended.
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Old Yesterday, 11:10 AM   #2333
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
They hit her five times out of just over twenty shots.
Is that a poor average?
Well, since she wasn't the person holding a gun, and a lot of the bullets went into the adjacent apartment where three people, including a child, were sleeping, I'd say the cops could probably have done better. Of course, as a civilian I can't possibly understand the deadly threats that our boys in blue face every second of their lives and that require instantaneous overwhelming firepower.
.
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Old Yesterday, 11:11 AM   #2334
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
So no one will be held responsible for the killing of Breonna Taylor? Just endangering her neighbours who were not killed?!
I still contend that the cop who requested the warrant and the judge who approved it should be held responsible.
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Old Yesterday, 11:16 AM   #2335
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I still contend that the cop who requested the warrant and the judge who approved it should be held responsible.
That seems to accept that the police are an uncontrolled violent force that needs to be carefully contained. Does not fit at all with not charging the ones who did the shooting. That only holds up in court in cases of swatting

As for them in addition to the officers who did the shooting, why can't we focus on actually holding them accountable at all for the death?
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Old Yesterday, 11:17 AM   #2336
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Well, since she wasn't the person holding a gun, and a lot of the bullets went into the adjacent apartment where three people, including a child, were sleeping, I'd say the cops could probably have done better. Of course, as a civilian I can't possibly understand the deadly threats that our boys in blue face every second of their lives and that require instantaneous overwhelming firepower.
.
Those neighbours could have been a threat to the cops at any second!
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Old Yesterday, 11:39 AM   #2337
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
So no one will be held responsible for the killing of Breonna Taylor? Just endangering her neighbours who were not killed?!
Because there was no individual to blame. The cops were serving a legal, no knock warrant. They were shot at. They returned fire. The system in which a warrant can be executed where the target is in custody is a problem, but it's not the direct, individual responsibility of the cops executing the warrant.

None of the flaws can be directly attributed to any specific shooter. The problems were with the system, not the specific cops.
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Old Yesterday, 11:54 AM   #2338
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So "I was only executing the warrant" is the new "I was only following orders."
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Old Yesterday, 11:54 AM   #2339
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
Because there was no individual to blame. The cops were serving a legal, no knock warrant. They were shot at. They returned fire. The system in which a warrant can be executed where the target is in custody is a problem, but it's not the direct, individual responsibility of the cops executing the warrant.

None of the flaws can be directly attributed to any specific shooter. The problems were with the system, not the specific cops.
The prosecutor at the press conference claims it wasn't actually a no-knock warrant, and that police announced themselves. But nobody asked how much time residents were given to respond. If they pound on the door and then knock it down 10 seconds later, that hardly counts.

The real question is that if it was not really a no-knock warrant, why didn't they cops call and say "We're outside. Open up." Or why didn't they hit their sirens outside and wake everybody up? This all just stinks.

Something else that's come out is that the cops apparently had an ambulance on standby before the raid, but they sent it away. Then the cops didn't attend to Breonna as she bled out, and she got no help until the ambulance was called back 20 minutes later. Maybe if she had gotten immediate care she might have been saved.
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Old Yesterday, 12:52 PM   #2340
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
So "I was only executing the warrant" is the new "I was only following orders."
No, but it's the justification as to why they were there. It wasn't random enforcement, it wasn't profiling. It was a warrant, signed off by a judge. There was no decision, by those specific cops, to engage. If you want to hold the specific cops responsible, then their judgement and choices have to play a major role.
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Old Yesterday, 12:56 PM   #2341
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
No, but it's the justification as to why they were there. It wasn't random enforcement, it wasn't profiling. It was a warrant, signed off by a judge. There was no decision, by those specific cops, to engage. If you want to hold the specific cops responsible, then their judgement and choices have to play a major role.
So the lies and wrong address mean nothing. I mean remember lying to judges is legal when you are a cop.
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Old Yesterday, 12:57 PM   #2342
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
No, but it's the justification as to why they were there. It wasn't random enforcement, it wasn't profiling. It was a warrant, signed off by a judge. There was no decision, by those specific cops, to engage. If you want to hold the specific cops responsible, then their judgement and choices have to play a major role.
...

...

... so yeah "I was only following orders." Got it.
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Old Yesterday, 01:06 PM   #2343
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
Because there was no individual to blame. The cops were serving a legal, no knock warrant. They were shot at. They returned fire. The system in which a warrant can be executed where the target is in custody is a problem, but it's not the direct, individual responsibility of the cops executing the warrant.

None of the flaws can be directly attributed to any specific shooter. The problems were with the system, not the specific cops.
So they have a license to kill?

"Not my fault, I was just following orders."
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Old Yesterday, 01:08 PM   #2344
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
So they have a license to kill?

"Not my fault, I was just following orders."
Following orders works great for torture why shouldn't it work for murder?
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Old Yesterday, 01:11 PM   #2345
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The prosecutor at the press conference claims it wasn't actually a no-knock warrant, and that police announced themselves. But nobody asked how much time residents were given to respond. If they pound on the door and then knock it down 10 seconds later, that hardly counts.

The real question is that if it was not really a no-knock warrant, why didn't they cops call and say "We're outside. Open up." Or why didn't they hit their sirens outside and wake everybody up? This all just stinks.

Something else that's come out is that the cops apparently had an ambulance on standby before the raid, but they sent it away. Then the cops didn't attend to Breonna as she bled out, and she got no help until the ambulance was called back 20 minutes later. Maybe if she had gotten immediate care she might have been saved.
Oh, most certainly the system failed Breonna. In the worst possible way. But the individual cops, may not be individually responsible. Whoever made the decision to dismiss the ambulance, and those who had the responsibility to provide aid, should be held accountable. Those trained in first aid should also share some liability. May not be suited for police employment. But murder? Not seeing that.
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Old Yesterday, 01:14 PM   #2346
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The prosecutor at the press conference claims it wasn't actually a no-knock warrant, and that police announced themselves. But nobody asked how much time residents were given to respond. If they pound on the door and then knock it down 10 seconds later, that hardly counts.

According to the police officers, it was between 45 seconds and one minute.

According to Kenny Walker, he and Breonna were both woken up by pounding on the door and she yelled to see who it was. The police knocked on the door again and she yelled at the top of her lungs to see who it was. Then there was another knock at the door and they both yelled at the top of their lungs.

There was then enough time to put on clothes before walking down the hall toward the door.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/10/p...owTranscript=1
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Old Yesterday, 01:15 PM   #2347
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
So they have a license to kill?

"Not my fault, I was just following orders."
Where in the warrant does it permit to come in shooting? Where in this incident did they come in shooting?

They didn't shoot first.

What orders were they following that was illegal?
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Old Yesterday, 01:56 PM   #2348
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
Oh, most certainly the system failed Breonna. In the worst possible way. But the individual cops, may not be individually responsible. Whoever made the decision to dismiss the ambulance, and those who had the responsibility to provide aid, should be held accountable. Those trained in first aid should also share some liability. May not be suited for police employment. But murder? Not seeing that.[
Every cop is trained in basic first aid, and some have advanced training. But they didn't help her. And murder might be a stretch, but I think there's an argument to be made for manslaughter. Let a trial jury decide whether killing somebody is justified.
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Old Yesterday, 02:01 PM   #2349
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
.....
According to Kenny Walker, he and Breonna were both woken up by pounding on the door and she yelled to see who it was. The police knocked on the door again and she yelled at the top of her lungs to see who it was. Then there was another knock at the door and they both yelled at the top of their lungs.

There was then enough time to put on clothes before walking down the hall toward the door.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/10/p...owTranscript=1

If that's true, there was no urgency to the situation. They could have waited for however long it would take an average person to awake from a sound sleep, figure out what's going on and respond to it. And the cops might have called them or used sirens and bullhorns outside. Whatever happened to "This is the police. Come out with your hands up!"
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Old Yesterday, 02:25 PM   #2350
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
Where in the warrant does it permit to come in shooting? Where in this incident did they come in shooting?

They didn't shoot first.

What orders were they following that was illegal?
*Confused*

You're the one arguing that the cops where just executing the warrant.
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Old Yesterday, 04:00 PM   #2351
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I still contend that the cop who requested the warrant and the judge who approved it should be held responsible.
As I understand it, the FBI have been investigating that aspect of the shooting. So charges over the validity of the warrant may yet be forthcoming...though I'm not holding my breath.
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Old Today, 03:30 AM   #2352
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Every cop is trained in basic first aid, and some have advanced training. But they didn't help her. And murder might be a stretch, but I think there's an argument to be made for manslaughter. Let a trial jury decide whether killing somebody is justified.
But they know better to treat the bullet wounds of an innocent bystander, you have to arrest them. That was made clear in the shooting of Charles Kinsey. You shoot a bystander you handcuff them and figure out something to arrest them for not provide treatment. Cop SOP.
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Old Today, 06:26 AM   #2353
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm surprised they got even that.
It looks better than a total no bill. Looks like they considered things rather than just default to protect the police.

I'd love to see the grand jury transcript. It was likely presented in a way to minimize the killing and to play up the endangerment.

Like the saying goes, a prosecutor could indict a ham sandwich. It is a pity they are selective about which what kinds of pork they apply that principle.
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Old Today, 06:32 AM   #2354
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
There was no decision, by those specific cops, to engage.
This is nonsense. They are not robots. There are tons of cases that hammer the point that cops and other law enforcement have broad discretion as to what they do. This should cut both ways, but in practice seems to only apply to cases where cops go too far.

This probably isn't provable as a murder, but there are tons of other kinds of homicide that apply to reckless behavior. If this was a civilian the prosecutors would be taking a far more aggressive approach as to framing this as a homicide.
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