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Old 19th January 2015, 03:15 PM   #1
Giz
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Terrorism or conspiracy theory (Argentina & Iran)

I normally avoid anything like conspiracy theories like the plague but I think the death of Alberto Nisman may be an exception:

Timeline
1994 - bombing of the AMIA Jewish community center in Buenos Aires which killed 86 people.
2006 - Argentina’s prosecutors accused the Iranian authorities of directing Hezbollah to carry out the attack on the center. They called for the arrest of former Iranian President Hashemi Rafsanjani, Defense Minister Ahmad Vahidi and six others.
2013 - “truth commission” agreed to by the governments of Argentina and Iran to investigate the bombing

The Argentine prosecutor Nisman, attacked the Kirchner government's decision to halt the investigation and hold a commission:
"Nisman claims that the president decided to “not incriminate” former senior Iranian officials for their roles in planning the bombing, and instead has sought a rapprochement with Tehran, “establishing trade relations to mitigate Argentina’s severe energy crisis,” the Buenos Aires Herald reported."

Now, hours before he was due to give evidence... he is found dead, from a single gunshot wound.

Argentine authorities say "suicide", others are not so sure....

http://hurryupharry.org/2015/01/19/a...osecutor-dead/
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-30891216
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...to-nisman-iran
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Old 19th January 2015, 05:35 PM   #2
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Something is up.
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Old 19th January 2015, 05:45 PM   #3
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It's just sad how Argentina has been so mismanaged. They started the 20th century in an enviable position, avoided both world wars. But it was squandered.
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Old 19th January 2015, 06:05 PM   #4
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The alleged planner of the bombing in 1994 was Hezbollah terror chief, Imad Mughniyeh. He was killed by Israel (allegedly) in 2008. Coincidentally (or perhaps not), his son Jihad was killed just a couple of days ago by Israel (allegedly).

The probability this was a suicide (or at least one not coerced by blackmail or threats of some kind) seems pretty close to nil.
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Old 20th January 2015, 08:38 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
his son Jihad
With a name like that, who could possibly imagine he'd get himself blown up in the company of terrorists?
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Old 20th January 2015, 08:43 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
It's just sad how Argentina has been so mismanaged. They started the 20th century in an enviable position, avoided both world wars. But it was squandered.
Yeah, the American backed coups and IMF shock therapy really ********** the place, didn't they?

Last edited by bit_pattern; 20th January 2015 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 20th January 2015, 09:06 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
I normally avoid anything like conspiracy theories like the plague but I think the death of Alberto Nisman may be an exception:

Timeline
1994 - bombing of the AMIA Jewish community center in Buenos Aires which killed 86 people.
2006 - Argentina’s prosecutors accused the Iranian authorities of directing Hezbollah to carry out the attack on the center. They called for the arrest of former Iranian President Hashemi Rafsanjani, Defense Minister Ahmad Vahidi and six others.
2013 - “truth commission” agreed to by the governments of Argentina and Iran to investigate the bombing

The Argentine prosecutor Nisman, attacked the Kirchner government's decision to halt the investigation and hold a commission:
"Nisman claims that the president decided to “not incriminate” former senior Iranian officials for their roles in planning the bombing, and instead has sought a rapprochement with Tehran, “establishing trade relations to mitigate Argentina’s severe energy crisis,” the Buenos Aires Herald reported."

Now, hours before he was due to give evidence... he is found dead, from a single gunshot wound.

Argentine authorities say "suicide", others are not so sure....
That sounds pretty fishy indeed. Did he leave an affidavit with his attorney which can take the place of his testimony?

BTW. what's with the accusations directly addressed at Iran? I thought communis opinio was that Hezbollah was behind the attack? Or am I picking nits here?

Originally Posted by Giz View Post
That article quotes another article:
Quote:
The history of Iran’s operations overseas inevitably suggest otherwise.
What is meant there? I'm not aware of extensive (terrorist) activities of either Iran or Hezbollah "overseas". (and don't mention Lockerbie, I don't believe they're behind that).

Originally Posted by Giz View Post
From that article:
Quote:
Nisman was found dead late on Sunday night in the bathroom of his apartment on the 13th floor of the luxury Le Parc tower complex in the expensive Puerto Madero neighbourhood of Buenos Aires.
[...]
Nisman’s mother found the door to his flat locked from the inside and had to get a locksmith to open it. She found her son’s body on the floor of the bathroom, blocking the entrance, and called the police.
So, if it was murder, how did the murderer manage to leave it like that and how did he manage to leave the apartment?
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Old 20th January 2015, 10:47 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
So, if it was murder, how did the murderer manage to leave it like that and how did he manage to leave the apartment?
Most (all?) doorknob locks can be locked with the door open, then it remains locked when you shut it. Then there's slam locks that do the same thing, such as a Segal lock.

So not hard to do.
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Old 21st January 2015, 12:02 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by bit_pattern View Post
Yeah, the American backed coups and IMF shock therapy really ********** the place, didn't they?
Which coups?

"The first [military coup] came in 1930; others followed in 1943, 1955, 1962, 1966 and 1976. The election of 1989 marked the first time in more than 60 years that a civilian president had handed power to an elected successor."

http://www.economist.com/news/briefi...entury-decline
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Old 22nd January 2015, 01:14 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Most (all?) doorknob locks can be locked with the door open, then it remains locked when you shut it. Then there's slam locks that do the same thing, such as a Segal lock.

So not hard to do.
That lock can be opened from the outside with a key, can't it?

The Guardian article said:
Quote:
Nisman’s mother found the door to his flat locked from the inside and had to get a locksmith to open it.
I read in that statement that his mother had a regular key to his flat, and either (a) it was locked with an extra lock which cannot be opened from the outside, or (b) the regular key wouldn't work.

The standard door lock around here (NL) has two latches: one which is operated from the inside with the door handle, and from the outside by turning the key 90 or 180 degrees; and a second one that is operated by turning the key 360 or even 720 degrees, from both the inside and the outside. So you can always enter with a key - with one exception: some locks cannot be operated from the outside if a key is stuck on the inside (I once shut myself out that way ).
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Last edited by ddt; 22nd January 2015 at 01:16 AM.
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Old 22nd January 2015, 12:25 PM   #11
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Looks more and more like not a suicide.

Quote:
On Tuesday, it was revealed that a test failed to detect any gunshot residue on Mr Nisman's hands. While Ms Fein said that the negative result could be due to the small calibre of the gun, it reignited suspicion that Mr Nisman did not pull the trigger. Remarks made by the locksmith who was called to gain access to Mr Nisman's flat further fuelled speculation. The man, who only gave his name as Walter, described how it had taken him only two minutes to get in. He said that the service door "was closed but not locked" and that it had been easy to "simply push the key" which was on the inside with the help of a wire. "If someone entered or not, I don't know," he added.
Even President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner is saying it's not a suicide, but it's possible that she's just bending to popular opinion.
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Old 22nd January 2015, 01:03 PM   #12
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Don't cry for me,Argentina....
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Old 13th February 2015, 12:28 PM   #13
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Apparently killing one prosecutor isn't enough to stop charges against Kirchner.

http://m24digital.com/2015/02/13/the...t-from-nisman/
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Old 13th February 2015, 02:42 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Apparently killing one prosecutor isn't enough to stop charges against Kirchner.

http://m24digital.com/2015/02/13/the...t-from-nisman/
Hopefully this one wont 'commit suicide' too. Or suffer a 'traffic accident' etc.

Anyway - kudos to the prosecutor. Some jurisdictions are tougher to be an honest public servant than others.
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Old 13th February 2015, 02:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Earlier Thursday, Nisman’s ex-wife criticized the investigation of her husband’s death, calling for an international commission to take up the case and accusing the lead investigator of releasing too much information.
So who from the international community does she trust not to screw up an investigation, and why?
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Old 9th March 2015, 11:24 AM   #16
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Really poor, bland and pretty misleading report by 60Minutes.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


13 and a half minutes should have been enough time to develop a true tip-of-the-iceberg piece of investigative journalism.
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Old 10th March 2015, 01:24 PM   #17
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Hope you watched the report. It's interesting how it is built. For instance, in the beginning it briefly mentions that Nisman had no gunpowder residue in his hand and fails to inform that he had no gunpowder residue in his arm and body but the weapon was found held in his hand, with his arm and hand over his chest and left shoulder. It also omits to inform that the only bullet wound shows that the weapon was some between half and one inch away from his head when the shot was made, it was over the right ear and the trajectory was slightly from behind and slightly upwards. Try yourselves, it's not the easiest position.

Lots of evidence all groups of experts agree about. Like he has alcohol in his stomach but not in his blood (the government misinformed by saying he was drunk; lately was informed that it was the content of half a glass of wine, so he decided to end up his life, drank half a glass of wine and shot himself immediately).

Lots of evidence including a service door gaining access to the air conditioners in his apartment unlocked, but the neighbour's apartment locked, however that apartment being empty as it was being completely renovated... I may write pages.

60Minutes' report loses time interviewing people who try to speak like Latka Gravas in order to spend time and say little. And the reporter ends the segment by giving credit to the hypothesis "he committed suicide because he had been duped" which is not a problem as a district attorney here first has the mission a grand jury performs in the USA, and it is the judge together with the district attorney who should investigate further before a trial.

The report fails to depict what it depicts in a logical and informed manner: it tells "a spy was fired and he filed the charges 14 days later" when a more precise story tells "the spy was fired because of the incoming accusation and the district attorney cancelled his vacations half-way to return during the judicial recess -we are in summer, 6 weeks without courts- and kinda ask for an emergency hearing. The report also fails to show half a million people in several cities marching silently in protest, a manifestation publicly organized by most district attorneys and judges. Do you get it? Judges here are as serious as they are everywhere. The fact of judges breaking their traditional circumspection and reserved nature ("the judge just speaks through sentences") should be enough interesting for 60Minutes to report it, and not just showing a few rows of people with signs saying "Je suis Nisman" in a different event.

The report not only was easy on Argentina; it was even easy on Iran. A little bit of a shame. You can be neutral but you have to give the public a balanced set of elements for them to evaluate.
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Old 11th March 2015, 02:14 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
I normally avoid anything like conspiracy theories like the plague but I think the death of Alberto Nisman may be an exception:

Timeline
1994 - bombing of the AMIA Jewish community center in Buenos Aires which killed 86 people.
2006 - Argentina’s prosecutors accused the Iranian authorities of directing Hezbollah to carry out the attack on the center. They called for the arrest of former Iranian President Hashemi Rafsanjani, Defense Minister Ahmad Vahidi and six others.
2013 - “truth commission” agreed to by the governments of Argentina and Iran to investigate the bombing

The Argentine prosecutor Nisman, attacked the Kirchner government's decision to halt the investigation and hold a commission:
"Nisman claims that the president decided to “not incriminate” former senior Iranian officials for their roles in planning the bombing, and instead has sought a rapprochement with Tehran, “establishing trade relations to mitigate Argentina’s severe energy crisis,” the Buenos Aires Herald reported."

Now, hours before he was due to give evidence... he is found dead, from a single gunshot wound.

Argentine authorities say "suicide", others are not so sure....

http://hurryupharry.org/2015/01/19/a...osecutor-dead/
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-30891216
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...to-nisman-iran
Why?
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Old 22nd March 2015, 05:19 AM   #19
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A very Usaian report

The Murder of Alberto Nisman
How the government of Cristina Fernández de Kircherner
created the environment for a perfect crime

Douglas Farah, Senior Fellow, Financial Investigations and Transparency --
International Assessment and Strategy Center (IASC), March, 2015
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Old 8th December 2017, 07:47 AM   #20
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UPDATE

After a long further investigation of the indictments started by D.A. Nisman (who has been confirmed to have been murdered), the judge yesterday ordered former president Cristina Kirchner to be remanded. The charge is HIGH TREASON.

As the accused has been elected to the National Senate (she got the place reserved in the election for the first minority with the support of a trumpian like fraction of the electorate) , she is not in custody yet until the Senate impeaches her, what seems to be a tall order as senators of hers and other parties wouldn't like to be seen as politically opportunistic, in spite most of them secretly wishing her disappeared from the face of the Earth.

They rather wait until she is found guilty of one or more charges in some of many trials involving her and the sentence/s is/are appealed yet finally confirmed by (a) higher court(s). Then, it will be their painful duty to kick her sorry arse out of the Senate.
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Old 18th December 2017, 06:27 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by aleCcowaN View Post
UPDATE

After a long further investigation of the indictments started by D.A. Nisman (who has been confirmed to have been murdered), the judge yesterday ordered former president Cristina Kirchner to be remanded. The charge is HIGH TREASON.

As the accused has been elected to the National Senate (she got the place reserved in the election for the first minority with the support of a trumpian like fraction of the electorate) , she is not in custody yet until the Senate impeaches her, what seems to be a tall order as senators of hers and other parties wouldn't like to be seen as politically opportunistic, in spite most of them secretly wishing her disappeared from the face of the Earth.

They rather wait until she is found guilty of one or more charges in some of many trials involving her and the sentence/s is/are appealed yet finally confirmed by (a) higher court(s). Then, it will be their painful duty to kick her sorry arse out of the Senate.
Wow. Hadn't seen this in the international media. Keep us posted!
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Old 21st December 2017, 07:16 PM   #22
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Any chance that the perp who murdered Nisman will be found?
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Old 22nd December 2017, 02:19 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Wow. Hadn't seen this in the international media. Keep us posted!
Everything going slow now. It's difficult for the charges to be finally sustained. Iran gave a great help recently buy acknowledging they negotiated with the intention of seeing the international arrest warrants dropped.

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
Any chance that the perp who murdered Nisman will be found?
It's unlikely. A lot of people around it is being processed (the collaborator and "friend" who provided the firearm "asked by Nisman" for personal protection a few hours before his death; the bodyguards who were absent or playing cards 100 yards away from Nisman's appartment; the former Minister of Justice and the first DA attending, for spoiling the crime scene)
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Old 26th December 2017, 04:46 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by aleCcowaN View Post
It's unlikely. A lot of people around it is being processed (the collaborator and "friend" who provided the firearm "asked by Nisman" for personal protection a few hours before his death; the bodyguards who were absent or playing cards 100 yards away from Nisman's appartment; the former Minister of Justice and the first DA attending, for spoiling the crime scene)
Would you say it's a combination of error and collusion?
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Old 26th December 2017, 05:08 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Darth Rotor View Post
Would you say it's a combination of error and collusion?
You mean the crime? Yes I would think so.

Today, the guy who provided Nisman with the gun "hours" before the crime was indicted as an accessory to murder (I don't know the exact terminology in English, as this guy is reputed as "partícipe necesario" which means he's not the killer but the crime couldn't have being committed without his aid).

The gossipy conjecture is some long gone agent from Iran murdered Nisman while many locals made it possible and tried to damage the investigation.
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Old 27th December 2017, 11:19 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by aleCcowaN View Post
You mean the crime? Yes I would think so.

Today, the guy who provided Nisman with the gun "hours" before the crime was indicted as an accessory to murder (I don't know the exact terminology in English, as this guy is reputed as "partícipe necesario" which means he's not the killer but the crime couldn't have being committed without his aid).

The gossipy conjecture is some long gone agent from Iran murdered Nisman while many locals made it possible and tried to damage the investigation.
I think accessory (before the fact?) is close enough, thanks. Appreciate your insights on this.
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"Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis
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