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Tags North Korea incidents , North Korea issues

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Old 28th August 2017, 06:17 PM   #41
angrysoba
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Who knows? For fifteen minutes Japanese citizens were in great fear with sirens going off and being told via urgent TV and text messages to hunker down in a sturdy basement in a sturdy building.

Fact is, it was probably too high for the Japanese to shoot down, and some say it would be impossible to shoot these down anyway. If so, North Korea now knows Japan has no defence.

Obviously the Dear One is a maniac and is trying to provoke the USA (what if it had gone in the direction of Guam?) and Japan, knowing it is protected by Russia and China.
Japan have Patriot anti-missile missiles which may or may not be useful against Scuds (I have heard that they were actually pretty ineffective in the Iraq War of 1991 but maybe they have improved since then). The missiles that North Korea are firing here are not likely to be hit by anything Japan has.
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Old 28th August 2017, 06:18 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Who knows? For fifteen minutes Japanese citizens were in great fear with sirens going off and being told via urgent TV and text messages to hunker down in a sturdy basement in a sturdy building.

Fact is, it was probably too high for the Japanese to shoot down, and some say it would be impossible to shoot these down anyway. If so, North Korea now knows Japan has no defence.

Obviously the Dear One is a maniac and is trying to provoke the USA (what if it had gone in the direction of Guam?) and Japan, knowing it is protected by Russia and China.
Would imagine it is what it is

Nth Korea is as usual peeved off by the Ulchi Freedom Guardian, which to me seems to have no reason to still happen apart from to provoke the short insane one with the silly haircut.

So they are having their own "pretend play fight" to show how awesome their toys are as well.

Takes two to tango and all that
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Old 28th August 2017, 07:49 PM   #43
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Der missles go up; who cares where dey come dun;
Dat's not my department; says Kim Jong Un.
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Old 28th August 2017, 08:50 PM   #44
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Except it literally is his department.
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Old 28th August 2017, 10:01 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Would imagine it is what it is

Nth Korea is as usual peeved off by the Ulchi Freedom Guardian, which to me seems to have no reason to still happen apart from to provoke the short insane one with the silly haircut.

So they are having their own "pretend play fight" to show how awesome their toys are as well.

Takes two to tango and all that
Excuses, excuses!
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Old 29th August 2017, 01:39 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Excuses, excuses!
Never said it wasn't a stupid reason.

Just seems to me to be the obvious

Perhaps the yanks could explain why they still have their pointless willy waving exercises when all it achieves is winding up a nutbar with a massive arsenal.



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Old 29th August 2017, 01:49 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Never said it wasn't a stupid reason.

Just seems to me to be the obvious

Perhaps the yanks could explain why they still have their pointless willy waving exercises when all it achieves is winding up a nutbar with a massive arsenal.



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Why does the United States and South Korea have joint military exercises in preparation for defence against a possible attack by North Korea?

I think to ask the question is to answer it.

Now, what has that got to do with flying a missile over Japan?
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Old 29th August 2017, 01:55 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Who knows?
No, you mean "I don't know". If you don't know, don't pretend to know. There is no reason why NK would strike Japan out of the blue like this.
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Old 29th August 2017, 02:36 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Why does the United States and South Korea have joint military exercises in preparation for defence against a possible attack by North Korea?

I think to ask the question is to answer it.

Now, what has that got to do with flying a missile over Japan?
Because he is a nutter who gets wound up by the US doing pointless exercises that are only done to wind him up. I think they got the message the last year and the year before and the decade of years before.........

Can you not see a circular thing happening here?

Maybe making the pretend play fights a few years apart or toning it down a bit might help.

Have no fear. The rest of the world won't think the US is wimpy for pandering slightly to the psychopathic meglomaniac

Just being the bigger man and all that



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Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 29th August 2017, 03:10 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
No, you mean "I don't know". If you don't know, don't pretend to know. There is no reason why NK would strike Japan out of the blue like this.
Please point out where I 'pretended' anything.

So you pretend to know what goes on in the mind of Kim JungUn?

You don't know what the knob intended, either.

ETA: My comment about 'missing' was tongue in cheek. It is wearying when one has to explain a quip.
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Last edited by Vixen; 29th August 2017 at 03:28 AM.
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Old 29th August 2017, 03:10 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
You really think they meant it to hit?
With NK's rocketry in the state it is (they still have regular launch failures) it is not beyond the bounds of possibility for it to have suffered an engine failure late in the boost phase and fall out of the sky onto Hokkaido.
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Old 29th August 2017, 05:23 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Der missles go up; who cares where dey come dun;
Dat's not my department; says Kim Jong Un.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Except it literally is his department.
It was a joke by Trebuchet.

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Old 29th August 2017, 05:27 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Please point out where I 'pretended' anything.
Right here:

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Crumbs. There's a missile from North Korea headed for North Japan.

Update: It's missed!
Of course you'll find a way to deny it.

Quote:
ETA: My comment about 'missing' was tongue in cheek.
Called it.
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Old 29th August 2017, 06:19 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Japan have Patriot anti-missile missiles which may or may not be useful against Scuds (I have heard that they were actually pretty ineffective in the Iraq War of 1991 but maybe they have improved since then). The missiles that North Korea are firing here are not likely to be hit by anything Japan has.
They have. I worked with a Patriot unit after the war, and the discussion came up. There were two primary problems with the system during the war.

First, the software wasn't completely updated for the anti-missile work. It didn't actually identify the missiles automatically (it was originally designed for anti-aircraft, not missile defense), so basically you had to fire at any radar traces. That got fixed.

Second, Sadaam's SCUDs had been modified for range. Basically, they were cut in half, and a larger fuel tank stuck in the middle. This made them weak in the center. The Patriot is a proximity missile; it doesn't impact the target, but explodes into fragments when it gets close. The problem here was that this tended to blow out the weaker grafted part of the SCUD, leaving the relatively intact front and rear sections. Because of issue 1, they would show up as radar traces as well, and generally were also engaged.
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Old 29th August 2017, 07:51 AM   #55
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That Kim Jong un is a psycho. it might end up with Japan testing a ballistic missile over North Korea.
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Old 29th August 2017, 08:12 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Except it literally is his department.
On a more serious note, of course it's Fatty's department and it is utterly irresponsible - to put it mildly - for him to launch a missile over a densely populated area of a neighbouring country. As smartcooky rightly noted, there have been enough failure of previous NK missiles that this one landing on Hokkaido instead of flying over it was a real possibility.

Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
That Kim Jong un is a psycho. it might end up with Japan testing a ballistic missile over North Korea.
I have more trust in the senses of the Japanese government that they don't stoop to the level of Kim Jong-Un or, for that matter, the current inhabitant of the White House.
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Old 29th August 2017, 11:46 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Right here:



Of course you'll find a way to deny it.



Called it.
Oh dear. I am still having to explain a throwaway one liner. When I said it was headed for North Japan, the context is obviously 'headed in the direction of it.

The fact there was a major alert in Japan indicates no-one knew within that 15-minute window where exactly it would land.
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Old 29th August 2017, 11:50 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
On a more serious note, of course it's Fatty's department and it is utterly irresponsible - to put it mildly - for him to launch a missile over a densely populated area of a neighbouring country. As smartcooky rightly noted, there have been enough failure of previous NK missiles that this one landing on Hokkaido instead of flying over it was a real possibility.


I have more trust in the senses of the Japanese government that they don't stoop to the level of Kim Jong-Un or, for that matter, the current inhabitant of the White House.
Gives more meaning to the song, 'Hey Fatty -Boom-Boom'.
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Old 29th August 2017, 11:57 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Oh dear. I am still having to explain a throwaway one liner.
Yes, I'm sure you'd rather people not correct you on your mistakes, but that comes with posting on the internet.

Even I get it once in a while (but rarely).
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Old 29th August 2017, 12:04 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Yes, I'm sure you'd rather people not correct you on your mistakes, but that comes with posting on the internet.

Even I get it once in a while (but rarely).
OK, OK. When I said North Korea launched a missile at Japan and it missed, I was being deadly serious.

You can have the last word.
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Old 30th August 2017, 03:21 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Because he is a nutter who gets wound up by the US doing pointless exercises that are only done to wind him up. I think they got the message the last year and the year before and the decade of years before.........

Can you not see a circular thing happening here?

Maybe making the pretend play fights a few years apart or toning it down a bit might help.

Have no fear. The rest of the world won't think the US is wimpy for pandering slightly to the psychopathic meglomaniac

Just being the bigger man and all that



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Funnily enough, the US troop presence has decreased both in the drills and in the numbers that are permanently stationed in Korea and in Japan. So they have toned it down a bit. Slightly.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 30th August 2017, 03:27 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
They have. I worked with a Patriot unit after the war, and the discussion came up. There were two primary problems with the system during the war.

First, the software wasn't completely updated for the anti-missile work. It didn't actually identify the missiles automatically (it was originally designed for anti-aircraft, not missile defense), so basically you had to fire at any radar traces. That got fixed.

Second, Sadaam's SCUDs had been modified for range. Basically, they were cut in half, and a larger fuel tank stuck in the middle. This made them weak in the center. The Patriot is a proximity missile; it doesn't impact the target, but explodes into fragments when it gets close. The problem here was that this tended to blow out the weaker grafted part of the SCUD, leaving the relatively intact front and rear sections. Because of issue 1, they would show up as radar traces as well, and generally were also engaged.
Thanks for the information.

I found some information on Japan and the US's anti-missile defence for the area:

Quote:
Japan currently has a two layer ballistic missile defense structure that comprises four Aegis destroyers equipped with the SM-3 missile system and ground-based Patriot Advanced Capability 3 (PAC-3) batteries.

The PAC-3 missile system is designed to intercept a ballistic missile flying in its “terminal phase,” or the period shortly before it would reach a target on the ground. So any North Korean ballistic missile flying high over Japan on a route toward Guam would need to be intercepted using SM-3 missiles.

Koda maintained that Aegis destroyers deployed in the Sea of Japan are capable of intercepting North Korea’s Hwasong-12 ballistic missiles if they fly over the Japanese archipelago as Pyongyang’s announcement describes, given the estimated speed, altitude and distance.

But the U.S. military probably will deploy three of its own Aegis warship groups near both Japan and Guam. The U.S. also has the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) system on the western Pacific island, Koda pointed out.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20.../#.WaaSM8gjHIU

The strange thing is that even if Japan has the capability to shoot down the missiles, there is doubt about whether their constitution permits them to do so.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 30th August 2017, 03:28 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Yes, I'm sure you'd rather people not correct you on your mistakes, but that comes with posting on the internet.

Even I get it once in a while (but rarely).
Even you get it once in a while?
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 30th August 2017, 04:59 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Even you get it once in a while?
I was trying to sound humble.
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Old 30th August 2017, 05:24 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I was trying to sound humble.
Mission accomplished! Which is more than can be said for those missed missiles!
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Old 30th August 2017, 07:24 AM   #66
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I'm not sure if this has been posted for discussion here yet - basically Ukraine has been accused of somehow allowing the norks to get their hands on me advanced rocket designs.

https://www.google.co.za/amp/s/amp.c...ies/index.html
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Old 30th August 2017, 09:40 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Octavo View Post
I'm not sure if this has been posted for discussion here yet - basically Ukraine has been accused of somehow allowing the norks to get their hands on me advanced rocket designs.

https://www.google.co.za/amp/s/amp.c...ies/index.html
It's like something out of a boy's comic. You wonder what kind of flaws and defects are inbuilt into Nork's nuclear armoury. Only need one 'accident' and it will make Chernobyl look like a two-penny sparkler.

Two North Korean spies steal Ukraine's missile designs. So no nuclear physicists who've studied for years at top universities, but a bunch of schlongheads more used to designing mobile phones.
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Old 30th August 2017, 02:43 PM   #68
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Again, I think the greatest danger here is not NK firing off a single missile, or even the US's retaliation/pre-emptive strike. It's those guys in Russia and China with either faulty fail-safes or automatic Doomsday Devices (or just a couple ambitious soldiers) who will kick off the big bada-boom by accident.
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Old 30th August 2017, 02:53 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Again, I think the greatest danger here is not NK firing off a single missile, or even the US's retaliation/pre-emptive strike. It's those guys in Russia and China with either faulty fail-safes or automatic Doomsday Devices (or just a couple ambitious soldiers) who will kick off the big bada-boom by accident.
Yeah, that would definitely suck. Eric Schlosser's book on the US nuclear weapons system - Command and Control - is bad enough, but he says in the final chapter that if that system isn't scary enough then the countries that also have such nukes and a far poorer record of industrial safety mechanisms is even scarier.
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Old 30th August 2017, 04:37 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Yeah, that would definitely suck. Eric Schlosser's book on the US nuclear weapons system - Command and Control - is bad enough, but he says in the final chapter that if that system isn't scary enough then the countries that also have such nukes and a far poorer record of industrial safety mechanisms is even scarier.
Precisely why I'm more concerned now than I would have been in the same situation a year ago -- I read the book. The corresponding DVD did not convey the possibilities enough -- especially of the opinions of some of our own Generals.
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Old 31st August 2017, 12:53 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Japan have Patriot anti-missile missiles which may or may not be useful against Scuds (I have heard that they were actually pretty ineffective in the Iraq War of 1991 but maybe they have improved since then).
Patriots during the Gulf war had only marginal anti-ballistic capability, added as almost an afterthought, and successfuly intercepted about half of the missiles. This is a better success rate than North Korean ballistic missiles currently can manage.

Anti-ballistic capabilities of the Patriot were greatly expanded since. In particular explosive warheads were replaced with kinetic ones, because it was discovered in that conflict the missiles were better capable of hitting the incoming Scuds than explosive warheads were capable of reliably destroying them.

North Korean missile capability advanced in the past 26 years. You shouldn't be surprised if US interception technology advanced too.

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Old 31st August 2017, 06:32 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Patriots during the Gulf war had only marginal anti-ballistic capability, added as almost an afterthought, and successfuly intercepted about half of the missiles. This is a better success rate than North Korean ballistic missiles currently can manage.

Anti-ballistic capabilities of the Patriot were greatly expanded since. In particular explosive warheads were replaced with kinetic ones, because it was discovered in that conflict the missiles were better capable of hitting the incoming Scuds than explosive warheads were capable of reliably destroying them.

North Korean missile capability advanced in the past 26 years. You shouldn't be surprised if US interception technology advanced too.

McHrozni
Did they replace with kinetics? I didn't know that, must've happened after I left that unit ('97, I think).

Does make me feel better, though, considering some of the people we have working around them. Like the sergeant driving a 10-ton fuel truck, who backed into a live Patriot launcher and knocked it over on top of the truck. We were one spark away from a mass casualty event.
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Old 2nd September 2017, 11:09 AM   #73
Darth Rotor
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Did they replace with kinetics? :
This may bring you up to date on Patriot PAC-3. (A friend of mine worked on that program about 20 years ago.)
THAAD is a bit of a different architecture, but also worth a look
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Old 2nd September 2017, 01:41 PM   #74
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It doesn't inspire confidence that N Korea's missile broke in three on landing.

Is this normal?

It's like something out of Blue Peter: three toilet roll tubes, some sticky tape and insert some semtex.
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Old 2nd September 2017, 02:08 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
It doesn't inspire confidence that N Korea's missile broke in three on landing.

Is this normal?

It's like something out of Blue Peter: three toilet roll tubes, some sticky tape and insert some semtex.
The missile landed? Or crashed?

And yes, it's normal.

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Old 3rd September 2017, 01:49 AM   #76
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Somebody needs to talk about peace in our time.
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Old 3rd September 2017, 02:13 AM   #77
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NK claims they have done a 'perfect' test of a hydrogen bomb.
No outside confirmation but the earthquake it produced was 10x the size of the last nuclear test (6.3 vs 5.3).

There is still talk of diplomacy but all their past agreements were nothing more than blatant extortion for huge aid packages. Any agreement signed (if that route is taken, again) seems as worthless, if not more so, than previous ones.

What will Trumps response be? How about China? Japan? SK? Besides the usual denoucement that is.

Also, isn't it overdue that NK be kicked out of the U.N? It seems Kim might actually care about losing his seat as a recognized country. He has never met the criteria to have it in the first place.

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Old 3rd September 2017, 07:08 AM   #78
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@Sherkeu: which Security Council members will support NK being kicked out of the UN? I can think of two who would not.
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Old 3rd September 2017, 07:47 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Sherkeu View Post
NK claims they have done a 'perfect' test of a hydrogen bomb.
No outside confirmation but the earthquake it produced was 10x the size of the last nuclear test (6.3 vs 5.3).

There is still talk of diplomacy but all their past agreements were nothing more than blatant extortion for huge aid packages. Any agreement signed (if that route is taken, again) seems as worthless, if not more so, than previous ones.

What will Trumps response be? How about China? Japan? SK? Besides the usual denoucement that is.

Also, isn't it overdue that NK be kicked out of the U.N? It seems Kim might actually care about losing his seat as a recognized country. He has never met the criteria to have it in the first place.
Kicked out for this? Countries have a sovereign right to develop weapons.
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Old 3rd September 2017, 10:25 AM   #80
Darat
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Kicked out for this? Countries have a sovereign right to develop weapons.
Rather strange contention for you, geography now has rights?
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