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Old 8th November 2017, 08:25 PM   #1
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Hamilton 68 Dashboard

The name is a nod to Alexander Hamilton, who in the Federalist Paper #68 warned of foreign interference in politics. That's what I read on their website, I haven't read the Federalist Papers.

What this site does is it tracks trends from known Russian propaganda sources, and basically puts together a portrait of Russian propaganda efforts and what they want us to be talking about and focusing on.

http://dashboard.securingdemocracy.org/

So for example, if we glance over the "Top Themes" section we see:

Of those URLs, 30% were anti-Hillary Clinton, 11% were anti-Robert Mueller, 7% were anti-Barack Obama, and 4% were anti-Tony Podesta (several URLs attacked a combination of or all of the above figures). The most common theme was collusion between Democrats and Russia: the Uranium One deal and the DNCís funding of the Trump dossier were common points of emphasis (featured in 14% and 11% of all URLs respectively). Republican critics of the presidentóJohn McCain, Jeff Flake, Bob Corker, and even Rex Tillersonówere each the focus of one negative article. Eight URLs (7%) focused on the terror attacks in Manhattan, with half of the stories promoting anti-Islam or anti-immigration narratives, including three stories that blamed Democrats for the diversity visa lottery program. Other prominent topics were sexual misconduct in Hollywood (5%), NFL anthem protests (3%), and Vegas conspiracy theories (3%). As usual, Syria was the most common geopolitical topic (9% of all URLs).

Which shows us what Russia is pushing and where its priorities are in covertly influencing political dialogue.
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Old 8th November 2017, 08:37 PM   #2
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Useful if you want to know what the CIA doesn't want us to talk about.
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Old 11th November 2017, 08:45 AM   #3
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Useful if you want to know what a small subset of well-known Russian twitter trolls and bots want you to talk about.
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Old 13th November 2017, 10:34 PM   #4
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Not that I think anybody but jimbob is impressed by the junk poor Mycroft has to try to sell us here, Max Blumenthal did a little digging and found the usual bunch of unhinged characters with laughable methodology pampered by neo-con "think" tank money and amplified by the mighty wurlitzer.

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Old 14th November 2017, 12:21 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Not that I think anybody but jimbob is impressed by the junk poor Mycroft has to try to sell us here, Max Blumenthal did a little digging and found the usual bunch of unhinged characters with laughable methodology pampered by neo-con "think" tank money and amplified by the mighty wurlitzer.
I can't find anything in that article that's any more substantial than Max Blumenthal whining that it's run by people with whom he disagrees with in general, which given Max Blumenthal's politics comes across as more of a recommendation.

Can you identify anything in that article that you consider damning?
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Old 16th November 2017, 07:02 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
I can't find anything in that article that's any more substantial than Max Blumenthal whining that it's run by people with whom he disagrees with in general, which given Max Blumenthal's politics comes across as more of a recommendation.

Can you identify anything in that article that you consider damning?
So, no you can't?
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Old 22nd April 2018, 07:42 AM   #7
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By now the criminal government of the UK is spreading itself slander against activists exposing its lies about foreign and domestic "chemical" events. One of the creators of the junk site Mycroft promotes here and in his signature has long admitted that the methodology is plain BS. I call on Mycroft to stop to promote this dangerous, anti-democratic junk. State of the affairs on the framing-dissidents-as-russian-bots scheme is here:

The Media War On Truthful Reporting And Legitimate Opinions - A Documentary

So bizarre that they even tried to frame a grumpy old Brit, @Ian56789, as bot, and @Partisangirl who is known as real person by anyone into these topics, because she has shared her exceptionally wit (and beauty) with the internet on many occasions over many years.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 09:12 AM   #8
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I like that quote from that article Childlike Empree just mentioned:

Quote:
With the situation in Syria developing in favor of the Syrian people, with dubious government claims around the Skripal affair in Salisbury and the recent faked 'chemical attack' in Douma the campaign against dissenting reports and opinions became more and more personal.

Last December the Guardian commissioned a hatchet job against Vanessa Beeley and Eva Bartlett. Beeley and Bartlett extensively reported (vid) from the ground in Syria on the British propaganda racket "White Helmets". The Guardian piece defended the 'heroes' of the White Helmets and insinuated that both journalists were Russian paid stooges.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 10:05 AM   #9
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Old 22nd April 2018, 10:42 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
I like that quote from that article Childlike Empree just mentioned:
With friends like Henri...
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Old 22nd April 2018, 12:08 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
With friends like Henri...

... moronic pseudo-skeptics have a much easier time ignoring arguments because they can play their usual game of guilt by association (aka sippenhaft), is that what you wanted to say?
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Old 22nd April 2018, 12:19 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
By now the criminal government of the UK is spreading itself slander against activists exposing its lies about foreign and domestic "chemical" events. One of the creators of the junk site Mycroft promotes here and in his signature has long admitted that the methodology is plain BS. I call on Mycroft to stop to promote this dangerous, anti-democratic junk. State of the affairs on the framing-dissidents-as-russian-bots scheme is here:
The instrument of Russian propaganda doesn't want us to look at Russian propaganda. I think that's reason to continue to promote awareness, not to back off.

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post

Oh. Wow. Those strangely pro-Kremlin barflies at Moon of Alabama are upset that people are taking notice of the pro-Kremlin on-line network of which they are a part because they would much rather be seen as ordinary people speaking their mind and not as cogs in a propaganda machine pushing a pro-Kremlin viewpoint.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 12:23 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Which shows us what Russia is pushing and where its priorities are in covertly influencing political dialogue.
The question as to why Russia would prefer a Republican POTUS rather than a Democratic POTUS is an interesting one however.

In fact here's an odd question. Did Russia want a Republican POTUS in general or Trump specifically?
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Old 22nd April 2018, 12:26 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
... moronic pseudo-skeptics have a much easier time ignoring arguments because they can play their usual game of guilt by association (aka sippenhaft), is that what you wanted to say?
Sippenhaft refers to a family sharing the blame for the crimes of one of their family members (such as what might happen in North Korea) whereas the connection you and McPhee share is an ideological connection where you are not being accused of being criminal, but only having your ideas dismissed for having similarly idiotic sources.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 12:29 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The question as to why Russia would prefer a Republican POTUS rather than a Democratic POTUS is an interesting one however.

In fact here's an odd question. Did Russia want a Republican POTUS in general or Trump specifically?
I think there are a lot more options on the table than just these. I think it's most likely that Russia's goal was disruption, and that specific outcomes were less important. As always, there is plenty of room for new evidence to change this opinion.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 12:32 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
I think there are a lot more options on the table than just these. I think it's most likely that Russia's goal was disruption, and that specific outcomes were less important. As always, there is plenty of room for new evidence to change this opinion.
This is my view as well.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 12:44 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Sippenhaft refers to a family sharing the blame for the crimes of one of their family members (such as what might happen in North Korea) whereas the connection you and McPhee share is an ideological connection where you are not being accused of being criminal, but only having your ideas dismissed for having similarly idiotic sources.

The only connection Henri and I have is that we post on the same forum. I'm no more responsible for what Henri posts than I am for what you post. Of course Henri is a lot more classy and funny, but that is not why people like Garrison use the Sippenhaft trick. As you know.

Read the buzzfeed article if you think the MoA article is too easily dismissed by the people you want to manipulate. The junk you promote here is basement level propaganda and if you continue to promote it it is actually an insult to the intelligence of the readers.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 12:52 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
I think there are a lot more options on the table than just these. I think it's most likely that Russia's goal was disruption, and that specific outcomes were less important. As always, there is plenty of room for new evidence to change this opinion.

I think the evidence right now shows that the first Russian goal was to undermine and disrupt the US political system. Maybe later on they somewhat favored Trump for political reasons, but early on they mostly thought he would be the candidate to do the most harm to the US.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 12:54 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
I think the evidence right now shows that the first Russian goal was to undermine and disrupt the US political system. Maybe later on they somewhat favored Trump for political reasons, but early on they mostly thought he would be the candidate to do the most harm to the US.

"They hate us because of our freedoms."

LOL
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Old 22nd April 2018, 03:18 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
"They hate us because of our freedoms."

LOL
As always, nothing in what Loss Leader said suggests that.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 03:50 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
"They hate us because of our freedoms."

LOL

That has absolutely nothing to do with anything I said.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 04:06 PM   #22
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Syrian woman denies UK government's claims that she's a Russian bot

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

As someone on our wiki just wrote, "Going after pretty blogeresses, a sign of desperation."
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Old 22nd April 2018, 04:37 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Syrian woman denies UK government's claims that she's a Russian bot

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

As someone on our wiki just wrote, "Going after pretty blogeresses, a sign of desperation."
Maybe the rest of the crew at 55 Savushkina Street will also make videos of themselves showing they're not bots.
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Old 22nd April 2018, 04:44 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Maybe the rest of the crew at 55 Savushkina Street will also make videos of themselves showing they're not bots.

If they're part of a "crew" sitting in a building in St. Petersburg, of course they aren't "bots". You apparently don't even know what that means. And likely they aren't "trolls" as well, because their motivation is not to get a ruse out of people, but to influence them in their political understanding while pretending to be a neutral observer. Sounds familiar? The terminus technicus is "shill".
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Old 22nd April 2018, 05:25 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
If they're part of a "crew" sitting in a building in St. Petersburg, of course they aren't "bots".
Exactly. There exists a large pool of real people who should be able to come out and make videos claiming they're real people and not bots. Does that disprove the existence of bots? No, it doesn't. Bots are tools used by people, notbody ever claimed there were no real people involved.

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
You apparently don't even know what that means. And likely they aren't "trolls" as well, because their motivation is not to get a ruse out of people, but to influence them in their political understanding while pretending to be a neutral observer. Sounds familiar? The terminus technicus is "shill".
That some media outlet misidentified one part of the machine as another part of the same machine must make it all invalid, right?

That's pretty much what you're arguing. Some sloppy journalist misidentified this woman as one part of the propaganda machine when she's a completely different part of the propaganda machine, the part that's flesh and blood, and you think that's reason to ignore the propaganda machine.

Well, you don't think that, but it's a good enough reason to tell people, right?
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Old 22nd April 2018, 06:24 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
That's pretty much what you're arguing. Some sloppy journalist misidentified this woman as one part of the propaganda machine when she's a completely different part of the propaganda machine, the part that's flesh and blood, and you think that's reason to ignore the propaganda machine.

I've bumped this thread because there are fresh examples of what the junk you promote can do to people. The war criminal UK government uses it to smear activists. And of course originally it wasn't the fact that even the people who came up with the crap have now distanced themselves from any serious meaning that can be derived from it. It's only you who pretends that this is anything of value. And I'm calling you out on it.

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Old 23rd April 2018, 01:48 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
I think the evidence right now shows that the first Russian goal was to undermine and disrupt the US political system. Maybe later on they somewhat favored Trump for political reasons, but early on they mostly thought he would be the candidate to do the most harm to the US.
Have you any examples of that which could be described as the pure unadulterated historical truth? That seems to me to be just an opinion and not evidence or facts. I agree the Russians may have opinions of their own about all this, and about politics in Europe and America, but that does not violate international law.
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Old 23rd April 2018, 05:14 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I've bumped this thread because there are fresh examples of what the junk you promote can do to people. The war criminal UK government uses it to smear activists.
Oh my gawd!! An activist was smeared as being an activist?!! Oh, the horror!


Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
And of course originally it wasn't the fact that even the people who came up with the crap have now distanced themselves from any serious meaning that can be derived from it. It's only you who pretends that this is anything of value. And I'm calling you out on it.
Yeah, the guy said not all of the accounts they're tracking are bots. Some of them are useful idiots who actually believe the Kremlin created narrative and promote it for free because they're true believers. Which for some reason you can't artuculate totally invalidates the very concept of Russian backed propaganda, therefore we shouldn't talk about it anymore.
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Old 23rd April 2018, 05:39 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The question as to why Russia would prefer a Republican POTUS rather than a Democratic POTUS is an interesting one however.

In fact here's an odd question. Did Russia want a Republican POTUS in general or Trump specifically?
My view is that Russia wanted to sow as much discord into the US political system as possible. I suspect the Russians were just as surprised as the rest of us when Trump actually won. Trump political incompetence combined with his open corruption certainly is a benefit to Russia. But had Hillary won, the work Russia was doing to wouldn't have been in waste, because the American public would still be very divided and politics would remain bitter throughout her presidency.

I don't think the Russians are crafters of delicate conspiracies, they are bomb throwers.

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Old 23rd April 2018, 06:08 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
My view is that Russia wanted to sow as much discord into the US political system as possible. I suspect the Russians were just as surprised as the rest of us when Trump actually won. Trump political incompetence combined with his open corruption certainly is a benefit to Russia. But had Hillary won, the work Russia was doing to wouldn't have been in waste, because the American public would still be very divided and politics would remain bitter throughout her presidency.

I don't think the Russians are crafters of delicate conspiracies, they are bomb throwers.
Considering that Trump through his businesses has had an extraordinary amount of contact with several of Putin's oligarch pals, and considering the possibility that Putin has some very serious dirt on Trump, or at least several holds, I think there's a very real possibility that Trump in particular was what the Russians wanted. Disruption and devaluing of American democracy is surely a benefit of Trump, but I think the original reason was criminal rather than political.
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Old 23rd April 2018, 09:00 AM   #31
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Hehe...

Originally Posted by Caitlin Johnstone
[...] Who do these people think they’re kidding? Are we truly meant to believe that people expressing skepticism about the authenticity of a “civil defense group” in a distant Middle Eastern country is suddenly the most dangerous thing in the world? Are we really meant to think it’s normal for all these mass media corporations to suddenly start ferociously attacking anyone who expresses skepticism about the military agendas of western forces that have an extensive and well-documented history of using lies, propaganda and false flags to manufacture support for military agendas? Are we really meant to believe that Syria, a nation for which the US and UK have been plotting regime change for many years, is just now in sore need of humanitarian regime change? And that anyone who says otherwise just loves Bashar al-Assad, Vladimir Putin and dead babies?

Please. We’re being lied to, aggressively and relentlessly. And it’s backfiring on them.

Propaganda and censorship only work if they’re invisible. Once it becomes obvious that propagandists are propagandizing, public attention moves from the material being presented to the people who are doing the presenting. And this is exactly what we are seeing with the establishment Syria narrative. [...]
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Old 23rd April 2018, 09:15 AM   #32
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I'm not sure how onboard I can get with the idea that Russia interfered with the election of the world's last superpower with the goal of sowing enough discontent that things might wind going their way by random chance.

Destabilizing one of, if not the, only countries in the world that could pose a credible threat to you in a way that is as likely to come back and bite you in the ass as result in a situation you might possibly be able to take advantage of strikes me as not well thought out at best, downright suicidal at worst.
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Old 23rd April 2018, 11:45 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Considering that Trump through his businesses has had an extraordinary amount of contact with several of Putin's oligarch pals, and considering the possibility that Putin has some very serious dirt on Trump, or at least several holds, I think there's a very real possibility that Trump in particular was what the Russians wanted. Disruption and devaluing of American democracy is surely a benefit of Trump, but I think the original reason was criminal rather than political.
Hindsight bias.

There is no evidence I can see, that if Hillary had approached the Russians, they would not have willingly cooperated. Feel free to provide otherwise.
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Old 23rd April 2018, 11:54 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Hindsight bias.

There is no evidence I can see, that if Hillary had approached the Russians, they would not have willingly cooperated. Feel free to provide otherwise.
Yes, but that's like saying that if Clinton was someone completely different, the Russians would have cooperated.

Of course they would have - they'd take records and having blackmail material on a leading candidate for POTUS would be a great insurance
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Old 23rd April 2018, 12:58 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Destabilizing one of, if not the, only countries in the world that could pose a credible threat to you in a way that is as likely to come back and bite you in the ass as result in a situation you might possibly be able to take advantage of strikes me as not well thought out at best, downright suicidal at worst.

Oh, I don't think it was well thought-out at all. Nor do I expect it was particularly well-coordinated because there couldn't have been that much faith that any of their plans would work. Now that they have proof of concept, though, I expect this type of propaganda astro-turf regime-change nonsense will become a weapon like every other - China's been doing it forever in Tibet. Everybody's going to try their hand at this.
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Old 23rd April 2018, 01:24 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Yes, but that's like saying that if Clinton was someone completely different, the Russians would have cooperated.

Of course they would have - they'd take records and having blackmail material on a leading candidate for POTUS would be a great insurance
And the alternative then appears to be the Russians like Trump, because he is the one who approached them. So what essentially beyond his weakness in coming to them is significant?
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Old 23rd April 2018, 01:34 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
And the alternative then appears to be the Russians like Trump, because he is the one who approached them. So what essentially beyond his weakness in coming to them is significant?
I'm feeling a bit like the Monty Python Spanish Inquisition sketch
His most attractive feature is his corruption

And his venality

His two most attractive features are his corruption and his venality and his willingness to commit treasonous acts

His three most attractive features are his corruption and his venality and his willingness to commit treasonous acts and how it's left him open to blackmail

His four most attractive features are his corruption and his venality and his willingness to commit treasonous acts and how it's left him open to blackmail and his incompetence


His five most attractive features are his corruption and his venality and his willingness to commit treasonous acts and how it's left him open to blackmail and his incompetence and his divisiveness
Personally - I tend to the idea that it was that he'd cause massive disruption but I am open to the idea that he was actually doing their bidding.
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US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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