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Old 23rd November 2021, 03:48 AM   #1881
MarkCorrigan
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The Quran is a bloodthirsty book that commands you to kill non believers. Repeatedly. Stop trying to pretend that isn't the case.

Deal with the fact that your book instructs you to kill people like me Heydarian, stop deflecting.
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Old 23rd November 2021, 04:04 AM   #1882
IanS
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Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
Hi philosopher
First, the Qur'an was revealed to Muhammad 14 centuries ago at a time when people were illiterate. Therefore, they did not understand binary particles or atoms or forces and energies.
Secondly, I have said many times that the Qur'an is not a scientific encyclopedia. He only mentioned the sciences. The details are left to us. And we have a duty to discover it. And register as scientific laws.

I am not reading further than the above, because you are just posting all the same things repeatedly.

It's no defense for you to claim that people would not have understood in 600AD if the Koran said "everything is composed of tiny particles too small for our eyes to see" ... a sentence like that is 100% clear to anyone, and it would have been just as clear in 600AD, and nobody could misunderstand that ...

... but the Koran never does say anything like that about any scientific discovery. Never. Not once! No description of any modern science at all, Zero.

When you say that your religious "scholars" have "INTERPRETED" any sentence to claim that it describes atomic structure or black holes or evolution, that is a straight-out lie that everyone can immediately see ...

... the only people who cannot see such an obvious huge lie (it's right there in front of you on every page of the Koran (or the bible also)), are those like yourself who are so completely deluded by religious belief as to be left in the position of constantly being forced into "Lying for God".

12th time now – where are the answers, which you actually promised, to those 3 or 4 simple crucial questions?
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Old 23rd November 2021, 04:08 AM   #1883
heydarian saeed
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
What do you mean, you do not accept. Do you think I am lying ?

And what do you mean it is superstition. Are you saying there are no real angels, and they are just forces of nature ? Because the whole Quran is supposed to be a message sent down through the angel Gabriel.

I believe I myself was spoken to by an angel of karma. If not then it was a very advanced and evolved spirit guide. Because the voice that spoke to me predicted the lottery numbers in advance by looking into the future and giving me the numbers by telepathy.

I believe only an angel of karma would have had the authority to bend the rules of karma to give me winning lottery numbers, and they only gave me enough to buy a computer and no more. That is because it is not normally allowed that someone can cheat the lottery by occult means. I have tried to get them to give me a bigger win ever since but they have not, and I know they probably never will, even though they proved they can.

I believe the angels are a separate species to us that never incarnate and they administrate the spiritual evolution of mankind on this and many other planets. There must be a very large army of angels to be able to administrate the evolution of the countless souls that are incarnate at any one time. I do not know how many other planets are inhabited but It think it is a lot. We incarnate on different planets according to the needs of our soul.
Most of us on this planet have incarnated on different planets, and we will again.

The angel (or spirit) that gave me a lottery win in 1998 could see into the future, and they must have known what I would do with it. They must have known that after the world trade center was attacked in 2001 I would read the Quran, realize it was evil lies about God , and decide to try and undermine it all over the internet on various forums, as I have duly done.

The angels want to break down the teachings of the lying false prophet Muhammad and wipe away the beliefs of Islam from the world. They gave me a computer so that I could participate in this effort, and that is what you are up against.
I do not intend to insult you and your opinions. Because you are a human being, I respect you according to the Quranic teachings. And you accept God, so I push you in my arms. I advise you to think realistically. Follow the reality. Dreaming and daydreaming is not a good way. The angel is the same as the four laws of physics in the natural world. The soul is the command of God. In living things, its place is in the genome. And manually manages the living being. And monitors. Spirit all living information through the space strings that exist infinitely.
They are sent to the clear book of God. In other words, they send the creation to the huge hard disk. And for every human being, his information is protected. According to the information recorded by the soul of every human being, God will recreate him on the Day of Judgment. There are two theories here. Or the whole universe exists in the parallel world, which is matter, in exchange. That is, there is a parallel earth in the parallel world. Your body exists in a parallel world. Whatever you do. Every word you say is copied from this world to a parallel world like a computer in your imitation. And stored.
Science has proven a parallel world. And there. The parallel world is like a hard disk with the greatness of creation. Another theory is that all human information is 27 billion megabytes. It will be transferred to the resurrection through the wormhole. And according to the advanced technology of teleportation, the photons of every human being are exactly in their place in the body. And man is recreated. All this is said in the Qur'an. I can tell you in detail with the Quranic verse and its surah. In a perfect opportunity.
Our technology is not yet able to take even "one human being" from one place in the world to another via teleportation. But on the Day of Judgment, God will recreate "all human beings" using the same technology. This is not a claim. It is a truth that is said in the Qur'an. The Quran is a book of science and technology. It is said in similar verses. It is up to us to decipher it. It does not tell the details. Only Ramsey says. Until we discover.
You see that as you speak against the Qur'an. And you are the enemy of the Quran. I speak in front of you in favor of the Qur'an. Know that you and I were created by God. Matter and antimatter were created by God. Matter and energy were created by God. And as long as God wills, the balance between matter and antimatter will be maintained. On the Day of Judgment, God will bring out the energies and forces of the natural world. The heavens will weaken. And will collapse. The earth and everything in it. The universe and everything in it. We return to the elementary particles from which we are made. We will all go to the Day of Judgment through the wormhole with a diameter of 10 to the power of minus 31. It is very hard to imagine these conversations. And it is unbelievable. But it will happen. Because that is God's way. It is God's special way. No one is able to deal with it.
I hope we all think wisely about God and the Qur'an. A Muslim is one who surrenders only to God. Nothing else. Merciful God - Almighty and Mighty And wise. I love you all.
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Old 23rd November 2021, 04:22 AM   #1884
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Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan View Post
The Quran is a bloodthirsty book that commands you to kill non believers. Repeatedly. Stop trying to pretend that isn't the case.

Deal with the fact that your book instructs you to kill people like me Heydarian, stop deflecting.
I would recommend to my friends in this group: MarkCorrigan and Scorpion. Go on a beautiful pre-Christmas vacation. And clear the air of their minds. Watching the beautiful sport of ice hockey is useful for you. I personally enjoy watching this sport. Be positive. Put negativity and violence aside. I'm really sorry for you. Follow the advice above. I pray for you to get rid of the disease. Good bye
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Old 23rd November 2021, 04:25 AM   #1885
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Meaningless gibberish yet again.

First you complain that we are ascribing violent supremacist attitudes based on the actions of people and not the Quran and insist that we instead look to the Quran. Then when we provide evidence of those violent supremacist attitudes in the Quran you handwave and deflect and, frankly, lie and attempt to push vague platitudes at us. It isn't working Heydarian.

Deal with the points raised. Does the Quran instruct you to kill non believers, yes or no?
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Old 23rd November 2021, 04:35 AM   #1886
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Originally Posted by IanS View Post
I am not reading further than the above, because you are just posting all the same things repeatedly.

It's no defense for you to claim that people would not have understood in 600AD if the Koran said "everything is composed of tiny particles too small for our eyes to see" ... a sentence like that is 100% clear to anyone, and it would have been just as clear in 600AD, and nobody could misunderstand that ...

... but the Koran never does say anything like that about any scientific discovery. Never. Not once! No description of any modern science at all, Zero.

When you say that your religious "scholars" have "INTERPRETED" any sentence to claim that it describes atomic structure or black holes or evolution, that is a straight-out lie that everyone can immediately see ...

... the only people who cannot see such an obvious huge lie (it's right there in front of you on every page of the Koran (or the bible also)), are those like yourself who are so completely deluded by religious belief as to be left in the position of constantly being forced into "Lying for God".

12th time now – where are the answers, which you actually promised, to those 3 or 4 simple crucial questions?
Hello. Your habit is to cut a piece of speech and focus on it. And you lie against someone who speaks friendly to you. This is not a good method. Please be polite. I have answered all your questions logically. Of course, you may not understand anything I said! no problem. try again. And understand.
Secondly, I have said many times that the Qur'an is not a scientific encyclopedia. He only mentioned the sciences. The details are left to us. And we have a duty to discover it. And register as scientific laws.
Thirdly, it is gratifying that this logical question came to your mind. And you took these logical forms to the Qur'an and God. Let the Qur'an answer you as always:
the word "particle" is mentioned 27 times in the Qur'an.
God says: We own the particles in the heavens and the earth.
Even in 2 verses, fine particles are mentioned in the Qur'an.
The most famous surah is 34, which especially verses 3 and 22 deal with human actions, whether good or bad.
In verse 3, he explicitly refers to a particle and even a tiny particle. Meaning:
And those who disbelieve say: The Hour will not come to us. Say: Why do I swear by my Lord that it will surely come to you? "It is not hidden, nor is it less than it, nor is it greater than it, unless it is in a clear book."
)All particles from the largest to the smallest are recorded in our book.(
Let me open your mind to say: The great event of the singularity and cosmic expansion is told in 11 verses. And the most famous is verse 30 of Sura 21. Meaning:
Did not those who disbelieve know that the heavens and the earth were both joined together, and that We separated them in the event of a singularity, and that We created every living thing from water? "Did they not then begin to believe?"

If you are not polite. At least be reasonable. I'm really sorry for you.
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Old 23rd November 2021, 04:46 AM   #1887
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Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan View Post
Meaningless gibberish yet again.

First you complain that we are ascribing violent supremacist attitudes based on the actions of people and not the Quran and insist that we instead look to the Quran. Then when we provide evidence of those violent supremacist attitudes in the Quran you handwave and deflect and, frankly, lie and attempt to push vague platitudes at us. It isn't working Heydarian.

Deal with the points raised. Does the Quran instruct you to kill non believers, yes or no?
I have answered you many times. God does not say in the Qur'an that you should kill anyone. Even the disbelievers. He only said: If the infidels or anyone else rapes you and fights, resist him. Fight against it. If he cultivates, kill you too. How hard is it to understand this? Or you deliberately call yourself ignorant. We do not kill anyone. If someone kills us, we will retaliate. you got it? you got it? you got it? Go and rest a little. Please rest.
You really need to rest. I love you. Go rest.
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Old 23rd November 2021, 05:05 AM   #1888
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Originally Posted by IanS View Post
I am not reading further than the above, because you are just posting all the same things repeatedly.

It's no defense for you to claim that people would not have understood in 600AD if the Koran said "everything is composed of tiny particles too small for our eyes to see" ... a sentence like that is 100% clear to anyone, and it would have been just as clear in 600AD, and nobody could misunderstand that ...

... but the Koran never does say anything like that about any scientific discovery. Never. Not once! No description of any modern science at all, Zero.

When you say that your religious "scholars" have "INTERPRETED" any sentence to claim that it describes atomic structure or black holes or evolution, that is a straight-out lie that everyone can immediately see ...

... the only people who cannot see such an obvious huge lie (it's right there in front of you on every page of the Koran (or the bible also)), are those like yourself who are so completely deluded by religious belief as to be left in the position of constantly being forced into "Lying for God".

12th time now – where are the answers, which you actually promised, to those 3 or 4 simple crucial questions?
I do not follow any of the Islamic scholars in the scientific interpretation of the Qur'an. I use their apparent meaning and general interpretation. But I do not follow them in the scientific interpretation which is the scientific decoding of similar verses of the Qur'an. Please You get that thought out of your mind.
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Old 23rd November 2021, 05:10 AM   #1889
MarkCorrigan
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Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
I have answered you many times. God does not say in the Qur'an that you should kill anyone. Even the disbelievers. He only said: If the infidels or anyone else rapes you and fights, resist him. Fight against it. If he cultivates, kill you too. How hard is it to understand this? Or you deliberately call yourself ignorant. We do not kill anyone. If someone kills us, we will retaliate. you got it? you got it? you got it? Go and rest a little. Please rest.
You really need to rest. I love you. Go rest.
So you're straight up lying about the content of your holy book then?

Originally Posted by Surah 2:191
slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter.
Originally Posted by Surah 4:89
They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,
Your book Heydarian. You're the one who apparently believes this violent nonsense.

Do you think I am evil because I don't believe? Your god apparently does.

Originally Posted by Surah 7:177
Evil as an example are the folk who denied Our revelations,
Originally Posted by Surah 7:37
Who doeth greater wrong than he who inventeth a lie concerning Allah or denieth Our tokens
Originally Posted by Surah 2:254
The disbelievers, they are the wrong-doers.
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Old 23rd November 2021, 05:22 AM   #1890
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Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
Read the Qur'an with the correct meaning. Ask the Quran any questions you have. He answers you. Does not say details. Discover the details with you. And it is an honor.
Important Note: Do not be quick to judge. And be reasonable.

You know the Quran is the word of God because the Quran tells you so?
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Old 23rd November 2021, 06:10 AM   #1891
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
You know the Quran is the word of God because the Quran tells you so?


Replace "Bible" with "Quran" and you have it.

Fred
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Old 23rd November 2021, 07:59 AM   #1892
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Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
Hello. Your habit is to cut a piece of speech and focus on it. And you lie against someone who speaks friendly to you. This is not a good method. Please be polite. I have answered all your questions logically. Of course, you may not understand anything I said! no problem. try again. And understand.

You have never answered those 3 or 4 simple questions at all. You have never even looked back to see those questions when I first asked you to do that weeks ago. You promised that you would look back & answer them, but of course you never have!


Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
Secondly, I have said many times that the Qur'an is not a scientific encyclopedia. He only mentioned the sciences. The details are left to us. And we have a duty to discover it. And register as scientific laws.
Thirdly, it is gratifying that this logical question came to your mind. And you took these logical forms to the Qur'an and God. Let the Qur'an answer you as always:
the word "particle" is mentioned 27 times in the Qur'an.
God says: We own the particles in the heavens and the earth.
Even in 2 verses, fine particles are mentioned in the Qur'an.
The most famous surah is 34, which especially verses 3 and 22 deal with human actions, whether good or bad.
In verse 3, he explicitly refers to a particle and even a tiny particle. Meaning:
And those who disbelieve say: The Hour will not come to us. Say: Why do I swear by my Lord that it will surely come to you? "It is not hidden, nor is it less than it, nor is it greater than it, unless it is in a clear book."
)All particles from the largest to the smallest are recorded in our book.(
Let me open your mind to say: The great event of the singularity and cosmic expansion is told in 11 verses. And the most famous is verse 30 of Sura 21. Meaning:
Did not those who disbelieve know that the heavens and the earth were both joined together, and that We separated them in the event of a singularity, and that We created every living thing from water? "Did they not then begin to believe?"

If you are not polite. At least be reasonable. I'm really sorry for you.

Nobody here needs you to tell us that your Koran "is not a scientific encyclopedia"; everyone here knows that far better than you!

Afaik the Koran was written in ancient Arabic, in which case afaik it would not have used the word “particle”, and certainly not to explain that all things are made of very tiny “particles” that are far too small for a human eye to see.

I expect that what you mean is that the Koran uses some other Arabic word which you are now “Interpreting” to mean a “particle” … but when you claim that you are “interpreting”, what you actually mean is that you are dishonestly inventing a religious belief.

You mention numerous passages of the Koran, claiming again that they answer modern science. These are all the same passages that you have claimed many times here before. But you only give one actual Quote, and that is where you say this as an explanation of sub-atomic particles - "It is not hidden, nor is it less than it, nor is it greater than it, unless it is in a clear book." … but that makes no mention of any particles, and no mention of anything remotely like subatomic particle-fields at all … there is absolutely zero there in your own quote about any atomic structure.
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Old 23rd November 2021, 10:11 AM   #1893
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Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
I'm really sorry for you. You are deliberately distorting the divine verses in the Qur'an. Because your goal is to divert people's minds. I see a bad fate for you. Your place will be the fifth floor of hell. Wait until I tell you what the fifth degree of hell is? You will stay there forever. And in fire 10 to the power of 32 degrees Kelvin you will disappear. This is not my word. God knows you. And he has told you your destiny in the Qur'an. Sura 74 verses 8 to 31. Read carefully. This is definitely your destiny. Wait.
Human skin is peeled with boiling water. In the fifth degree of hell, the stem particles of the skin of atoms are removed at a temperature of 10 to the power of 32 degrees Kelvin. And are pulled out. You will be able to withstand such heat. Wait to see.
God has said these things in the Qur'an so that you may think correctly. And do not go astray. Be wise. It is the duty of Muhammad and the Qur'an to intimidate in order to behave properly. And it is good news for heaven. He says both together. The choice is yours. Do you have a mind? Which do you choose? It is not mandatory. Just speak and act wisely. I like you. I do not want the fate of the 5th degree of hell to befall you. understand.
So, you are threatening me with hellfire again. But now it is the fifth degree of hell, and you give the temperature. Where did you get this from ? I do not think that is in the Quran. You are just making it up, like Muhammad himself, who wrote the horrible verses of hellfire to scare people into following him.

I have had many messages from my departed relatives, and they are alive and well in the spirit world. They are not waiting for judgement day, because no such day will ever come.
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Old 23rd November 2021, 10:55 AM   #1894
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Hey, folks. A little restraint.

See my join date? Over the years, the forum has been visited by religious babblers, mostly chrrrristian but once or twice Muslim. We had a Jain (thinking of Kumar), and we've had a few dizzily ambiguous ones. They grow irritating fast, and then boring.

Giving a goddamn about their servings of word salad is, for me and apparently many others, impossible.

We press poor old Scorpion to get help. Maybe we can do the same once or twice for heydarian and then just

let

it

go.
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Old 23rd November 2021, 11:11 AM   #1895
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Only 2 problems I can see with that Sackett.

1. There's no evidence Heydarian has a mental illness. Scorpion does, self admittedly so. We advise him to get help not because of his weird theology but because he has a treatable medical condition. Heydarian is just a religious believer. The word salad is because he clearly does not speak English fluently.

2. What's the point of this place if we confront a religious person who turns up to preach at us but then drop it after a while because they aren't dropping their beliefs or whatever? I like debating here because it is an intellectual exercise and because any potential neutral that might be watching could be convinced by reasoned argument. I certainly don't think Heydarian will change his beliefs, nor am I trying to make him do so. What I am trying to do with him is confront the contradictions in what he is claiming and get him to admit that he is just straight up lying about what the Quran says. Not because I think he will see the light but because again, any potential neutral party might be encouraged by the multiple people, Scorpion included, who point out these lies.
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Old 23rd November 2021, 11:29 AM   #1896
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Thanks, Mark, for a polite and reasoned reply.

I'd opine that evidence of poor heydarrydown's rattling bolts lies not in his guerilla English but in his incapacity to use it to frame -- well, anything coherent. Also, I'd call his stubborn persistence in posting wads and truckloads of nonsense a pretty good sign of mania.

I should've said, a pretty bad sign.

But if you enjoy the game, then batter up and try for a hit.

I wonder: is there any way of measuring how many lurkers the forum has?
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Old 23rd November 2021, 11:46 AM   #1897
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I disagree, I don't think he is incoherent because he's got an issue, I think he is incoherent because he is someone who speaks very poor English (although admittedly his English is far better than my Arabic) attempting to frame the already nonsensical claims of a religion in a way that he thinks makes some sense and might convince people of a scientific bent. I think the further problem compounding this is that Heydarian's understanding of science is virtually nil. I would be confident in stating that given a half an hour chat with me my 8 year old niece would have a better grasp of science than Heydarian and I'm very much not a scientist or expert myself.

You've been around a while, do you remember Kurious_Kathy? Her ideas and concepts were all over the place and all she did was preach preach preach all day long. You literally could not get her to even respond to any questions, and if her husband hadn't joined as well I'd have written her off as a badly programmed spam bot. No mental illness needed for constant preaching to the heathens and no mental illness needed for incoherence in words or beliefs. Just religion.
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Old 23rd November 2021, 01:31 PM   #1898
Gord_in_Toronto
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Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
I do not follow any of the Islamic scholars in the scientific interpretation of the Qur'an. I use their apparent meaning and general interpretation. But I do not follow them in the scientific interpretation which is the scientific decoding of similar verses of the Qur'an. Please You get that thought out of your mind.
And I suppose Islamic scholars understand the words to mean what they say they mean. What makes your convoluted "interpretations" correct? Why do you think you know better than them?
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Old 23rd November 2021, 02:41 PM   #1899
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
Thanks, Mark, for a polite and reasoned reply.

I'd opine that evidence of poor heydarrydown's rattling bolts lies not in his guerilla English but in his incapacity to use it to frame -- well, anything coherent. Also, I'd call his stubborn persistence in posting wads and truckloads of nonsense a pretty good sign of mania.

I should've said, a pretty bad sign.

But if you enjoy the game, then batter up and try for a hit.

I wonder: is there any way of measuring how many lurkers the forum has?

The replies to heydarian's posts are not really expected to change heydarian's mind, or even to get him to actually put his religious beliefs aside for a short while so that he could look objectively and honestly at the evidence from science and see why that is so clearly against belief in gods and miracles etc. Or more precisely - I don't think any of us expect to change heydarian's mind, or the mind and beliefs any committed theist, immediately right here and now on a forum like this.

Instead what I think is more realistic, is that (a) discussions like this may influence some theists (wavering theists perhaps) who read these threads but who rarely post anything, but (b) more importantly it can help theists like heydarian to re-examine their beliefs over a much longer period of time, and especially if other events in their lives cause them to have doubts about the validity or truth of what they have always believed.

For example – a while back I asked heydarian to think about the discovery of human evolution and how that could fit with a religion where the absolutely crucial core belief is that God deliberately made the universe as a place to create Mankind … in Christianity for example, that is AFAIK the entire basis for the belief (i.e. that was God's entire purpose). But how can that possibly fit with the discovery of evolution? What evolution shows is that God definitely did not make any humans.

Could the theory of evolution be wrong about that? Well … as I pointed out to heydarain long ago (20 pages back) there are now perhaps a couple of million research papers with all manner of evidence showning Man's evolution from earlier apes … but in stark contrast there are no genuine papers published showing any evidence against that at all, far less any paper producing evidence for miraculous creation by a supernatural God. So the evidence of science & evolution is totally overwhelming to show that biblical Christian beliefs in God's making of Man, are simply untenable.

Does Islam have that same central foundational claim that God's purpose was to create Man? I don't know, because although I asked him about that, heydarian never replied about any of that.

Most of what heydarian has concentrated upon in the second half of this thread, is the claim that the Koran is proved to be the word of God because the Koran contains hundreds of “descriptions” (that's heydarian's word for it) of modern science. That's a proof of God. Except that it does not contain any such description of modern science. Why is that so? Same answer as for evolution – if the Koran really did show writing from 600AD that described quantum physics, black holes, neutron stars, dark energy etc., all of which have been claimed here by heydarain, then scientists everywhere in the world would be falling over themselves to publish that clear evidence of a God creating the universe … but amongst what must be tens of millions of research papers published in the core science journals of physics, chemistry, biology and most of maths, there is actually not one that claims to show any evidence of the Koran having described any of those things in 600AD … not a single paper showing any evidence of that out of tens of million of papers on those subjects.

So why is that? Why is that we have millions of fundamentalist Muslims like heydarain repeating all these claims from their scholars of “I'jazz literature”, and yet not a single mention of any such evidence in all those millions of properly independent scientific research papers? No! Just flat-out, No! … no, if there actually was even the slightest genuine possibility of modern day scientific explanations of that sort in a Koran from 600AD, then the science research journals would be full of it … but instead the tally is Zero!

So why am I replying to you with the above? Is it because I think you missed all of that or don't understand any of that? No, of course not. I'm reproducing it here because I'm waiting for heydarian to address those sort of questions honestly in a genuine way … in the hope that one day he realises that his I'jazz beliefs cannot be right, otherwise it certainly would be in all the scientific research papers (whereas in fact, it's not in any of them!).

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Old 23rd November 2021, 05:01 PM   #1900
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
--snip--

I wonder: is there any way of measuring how many lurkers the forum has?
At least one. I'm enjoying the conversation and Scorpion's rebuttals quoting different translations of the Quran. Whatever else he believes, Scorpion knows what the Bible and Quran say.
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Old 23rd November 2021, 06:20 PM   #1901
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Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
It is from the Quran. And the Qur'an is the word of God. Do not bore yourself in vain.
NO. The Koran comprises the words of scribes recording Muhammad’s conversations over a twenty-year period. It is NOT the word of your god any more than the bible is the “word” of the X’tian deity. In both instances, they are the words of men which the faithful choose to attribute to their god as an act of faith. But they are NOT the 'word' of either deity, because there are no deities..
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Old 23rd November 2021, 10:30 PM   #1902
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"Do not bore yourself in vain." Damn, that comes SO close to sounding like wisdom.
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Old 24th November 2021, 01:57 AM   #1903
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
"Do not bore yourself in vain." Damn, that comes SO close to sounding like wisdom.
Or something Deepak Chopra would say.
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Old 24th November 2021, 03:29 AM   #1904
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Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
I do not follow any of the Islamic scholars in the scientific interpretation of the Qur'an. I use their apparent meaning and general interpretation. But I do not follow them in the scientific interpretation which is the scientific decoding of similar verses of the Qur'an. Please You get that thought out of your mind.

If you are not getting your claims of science from earlier Islamic writers, then whatever gave you the idea that such verses of the Koran were about science? Who or what ever gave you that idea?

Are you saying that you are the first Muslim ever to believe that the Koran contains hundreds of sentences describing modern science? Or claiming that you thought this idea up all on your own?

Because AFAIK various people writing about the Koran, have been making these claims for at least the last 50 years.
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Old 24th November 2021, 05:10 AM   #1905
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Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
I'm really sorry for you. You are deliberately distorting the divine verses in the Qur'an.
Where did I distort the verses I quoted. I simply typed them in direct from the Yusuf Ali translation. There is nothing divine about them, they are cruel.
Here is another unholy verse from the false prophet Muhammad.

Quran surah 5.33
The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and his messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is execution, or crucifixion. or cutting off the hands and feet from opposite sides. Or exile from the land; That is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the hereafter.
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Old 24th November 2021, 05:35 AM   #1906
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Originally Posted by IanS View Post
You have never answered those 3 or 4 simple questions at all. You have never even looked back to see those questions when I first asked you to do that weeks ago. You promised that you would look back & answer them, but of course you never have!





Nobody here needs you to tell us that your Koran "is not a scientific encyclopedia"; everyone here knows that far better than you!

Afaik the Koran was written in ancient Arabic, in which case afaik it would not have used the word “particle”, and certainly not to explain that all things are made of very tiny “particles” that are far too small for a human eye to see.

I expect that what you mean is that the Koran uses some other Arabic word which you are now “Interpreting” to mean a “particle” … but when you claim that you are “interpreting”, what you actually mean is that you are dishonestly inventing a religious belief.

You mention numerous passages of the Koran, claiming again that they answer modern science. These are all the same passages that you have claimed many times here before. But you only give one actual Quote, and that is where you say this as an explanation of sub-atomic particles - "It is not hidden, nor is it less than it, nor is it greater than it, unless it is in a clear book." … but that makes no mention of any particles, and no mention of anything remotely like subatomic particle-fields at all … there is absolutely zero there in your own quote about any atomic structure.
You are right. Because you do not know Arabic. The word particle and smaller than a particle is mentioned 29 times in the Qur'an. If you do not agree with me. Please seek help from someone who knows Arabic and is familiar with it.
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Old 24th November 2021, 05:38 AM   #1907
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Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
I do not intend to insult you and your opinions. Because you are a human being, I respect you according to the Quranic teachings. And you accept God, so I push you in my arms. I advise you to think realistically. Follow the reality. Dreaming and daydreaming is not a good way. The angel is the same as the four laws of physics in the natural world. The soul is the command of God. In living things, its place is in the genome. And manually manages the living being. And monitors. Spirit all living information through the space strings that exist infinitely.
They are sent to the clear book of God. In other words, they send the creation to the huge hard disk. And for every human being, his information is protected. According to the information recorded by the soul of every human being, God will recreate him on the Day of Judgment. There are two theories here. Or the whole universe exists in the parallel world, which is matter, in exchange. That is, there is a parallel earth in the parallel world. Your body exists in a parallel world. Whatever you do. Every word you say is copied from this world to a parallel world like a computer in your imitation. And stored.
Science has proven a parallel world. And there. The parallel world is like a hard disk with the greatness of creation. Another theory is that all human information is 27 billion megabytes. It will be transferred to the resurrection through the wormhole. And according to the advanced technology of teleportation, the photons of every human being are exactly in their place in the body. And man is recreated. All this is said in the Qur'an. I can tell you in detail with the Quranic verse and its surah. In a perfect opportunity.
Our technology is not yet able to take even "one human being" from one place in the world to another via teleportation. But on the Day of Judgment, God will recreate "all human beings" using the same technology. This is not a claim. It is a truth that is said in the Qur'an. The Quran is a book of science and technology. It is said in similar verses. It is up to us to decipher it. It does not tell the details. Only Ramsey says. Until we discover.
You see that as you speak against the Qur'an. And you are the enemy of the Quran. I speak in front of you in favor of the Qur'an. Know that you and I were created by God. Matter and antimatter were created by God. Matter and energy were created by God. And as long as God wills, the balance between matter and antimatter will be maintained. On the Day of Judgment, God will bring out the energies and forces of the natural world. The heavens will weaken. And will collapse. The earth and everything in it. The universe and everything in it. We return to the elementary particles from which we are made. We will all go to the Day of Judgment through the wormhole with a diameter of 10 to the power of minus 31. It is very hard to imagine these conversations. And it is unbelievable. But it will happen. Because that is God's way. It is God's special way. No one is able to deal with it.
I hope we all think wisely about God and the Qur'an. A Muslim is one who surrenders only to God. Nothing else. Merciful God - Almighty and Mighty And wise. I love you all.
This sentence is modified: 27 billion megabytes - ... ten to the power of 27 bytes. thanks
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Old 24th November 2021, 05:40 AM   #1908
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After the introductory remarks that I have made, I now want to tell you about the fundamental particles that are mentioned in the verses similar to the divine punishment. And the quality and nature of the divine punishment that I have not told you so far. You see, our mentality of divine punishment is completely wrong by looking at the appearance of the verses of the Qur'an. We only see the appearance of the meaning of the verses of the Qur'an. While the main point is completely scientific. But we do not pay attention to it. Please read the following:
According to the Qur'an, or rather the worldview of human creation in the Qur'an, all material worlds originated from God. And "they return to Him." The rotation of creation and the return to the starting point of creation are key points in this discussion.
This key point is stated in verse 50 of Sura 17.
Meaning: (The disbelievers say: It is not possible for our rotten and destroyed bones to come back! And who will do that?) Say: (It is easy to bring back the broken bones) If you are a stone. Or be iron. Or whatever you think is harder and bigger. You will be motivated. They say who recreates us? Say: The One who created you for the first time from the expansion of the universe. And brought it out. They say: When is this event? Say it might be too close.
Apparent meaning: I opened you for the first time. And the inner meaning of the verse with reference to cosmology: You were within the expansion of the universe that had not yet been opened. And from there we created or opened you. And God does not say: I created you from there. Because creation wants raw material. And the raw material has not been created and released yet. However, all Islamic commentators have translated the word open to mean - He created me. This is in accordance with the appearance of the verse. But it is not true. And it is wrong.
From the beginning of the Big Bang to the opening of the universe or the beginning of the expansion of the universe as matter begins to form, astronomy calls the "Planck range."
The material world, including man, came out of the expansion of the universe. And return to expansion. So it became clear that we came out of the expansion of the universe. And when the universe contracts, we return to the same place.
This range, despite having extremely little time. (Ten to the power of minus 43 seconds) But fast, it has passed several stages. This time has been wrongly timed by physics. Time and place have not yet been created. The state of Planck's realm has not yet come into the material world. For God, time does not pass. And time does not encompass God. Time is for the universe. Not for God.
In this range, which has no time or place, it only has heat. It is fire. It's hell. The temperature is ten to the power of 32 degrees Kelvin. First is "pure energy". Quantum range. First, pure energy is a rich source of photons. And then there are probably quantum strings. And as we get closer to the beginning of the expansion, by changing the temperature of a season or a chapter, the stages of this range are added. The Qur'an clearly mentions its two scientific stages. The range is ruled by the number 19 and the other is the range of God's throne over the number eight and quantum science.
Now we have to see where the numbers 19 and 8 are in the Qur'an? And what does it mean? These are the two numbers of quantum physics in the Qur'an. And says the elementary particles. I will tell you in which verses this matter is mentioned. And what a sublime and beautiful meaning it has. It tells the fate of the universe and its contraction. ...
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Old 24th November 2021, 05:59 AM   #1909
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Oh look, more gibberish.

Heydarian, does the Quran command you to kill non believers, yes or no?
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Old 24th November 2021, 06:15 AM   #1910
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Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
You are right. Because you do not know Arabic. The word particle and smaller than a particle is mentioned 29 times in the Qur'an. If you do not agree with me. Please seek help from someone who knows Arabic and is familiar with it.

Well we are talking about your claim that the Koran describes sub-atomic "particles", ie where you say it is explaining the structure of atoms ... so please quote any of those 29 verses (or “29 mentions”) :- quote the actual words, so that everyone here can see for themselves whether or not those sentences are actually describing the structure of atoms ...

... do not tell us what you believe or what you think can be "interpreted" from the written words ... just quote the actual written words from the earliest known copies of the Koran circa 700AD translated into English.

Last edited by IanS; 24th November 2021 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 24th November 2021, 09:35 AM   #1911
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I just felt a breeze

Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Or something Deepak Chopra would say.
Well, maybe we don't know English, at least not well enough.

"Do vain your not-self up the bore."
"Bore your vein! Do not self!" (Junky wisdom?)
"Not bored? Do your vain self! Selah!"
"Nov shmozz kapop." (Esoterica! Yay!)

But remember, every Arabic word has 3 meanings: the surface meaning, the secret meaning, and "of a camel."
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Old 24th November 2021, 11:12 AM   #1912
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heydarian, you quoted verse 17. 50 from the Quran.

Surah 17.49 They say "what ! when were are bones and dust, should we really be raise up (to be) a new creation?."
Surah 17.50 Say : "(nay!) ye be stones or iron.

This refers to the resurrection of the body, Yes?

Well how do you account for my having received many messages from the spirits of my grandparents?

YOU ARE UTTERLY WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING,

We are not resurrected on judgement day, we go to a spirit world after death.

God does not burn his children, we all evolve together as a spiritual family and all are ultimately redeemed over many incarnations.
No one else on this forum believes me, as they are almost all atheists. They do not believe there is a God so they agree with me the Quran is garbage. But I am the only one telling the real truth. I do not care what it says, either in the bible or the quran,
I make my judgements based on much experience of getting messages from the spirit world in my own lifetime.
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Last edited by Scorpion; 24th November 2021 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 24th November 2021, 11:22 AM   #1913
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Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
The Qur'an clearly mentions its two scientific stages. The range is ruled by the number 19.
You would not be referring to the number 19 theories of Rashad Khalifa would you.?
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Old 24th November 2021, 11:32 AM   #1914
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
heydarian, you quoted verse 17. 50 from the Quran.

Surah 17.49 They say "what ! when were are bones and dust, should we really be raise up (to be) a new creation?."
Surah 17.50 Say : "(nay!) ye be stones or iron.

This refers to the resurrection of the body, Yes?

Well how do you account for my having received many messages from the spirits of my grandparents?

YOU ARE UTTERLY WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING,

We are not resurrected on judgement day, we go to a spirit world after death.

God does not burn his children, we all evolve together as a spiritual family and all are ultimately redeemed over many incarnations.
No one else on this forum believes me, as they are almost all atheists. They do not believe there is a God so they agree with me the Quran is garbage. But I am the only one telling the real truth. I do not care what it says, either in the bible or the quran,
I make my judgements based on much experience of getting messages from the spirit world in my own lifetime.
Heydarian claims that HE is the only one telling truth.

It's like being in a candy shop. Which sweety will I choose?

I did warn you in PM. You are just going to get in a shooting match between your god and his god. Your beliefs and his beliefs.

Well, we have multiple threads for yours already.

And you were doing so well when you confined yourself to critique of the Quran, I was cheering you on. Now it has devolved into "my god is bigger than your god". Don't say I didn't warn you.
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Old 24th November 2021, 11:38 AM   #1915
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Heydarian claims that HE is the only one telling truth.

It's like being in a candy shop. Which sweety will I choose?

I did warn you in PM. You are just going to get in a shooting match between your god and his god. Your beliefs and his beliefs.

Well, we have multiple threads for yours already.

And you were doing so well when you confined yourself to critique of the Quran, I was cheering you on. Now it has devolved into "my god is bigger than your god". Don't say I didn't warn you.
It was always going to come down to that, as I stated in post 1533.

My God IS bigger than his God.
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Last edited by Scorpion; 24th November 2021 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 24th November 2021, 11:52 AM   #1916
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
...My God IS bigger than his God.
Well, actually, your god and his are exactly the same size.
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Old 24th November 2021, 01:53 PM   #1917
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Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
After the introductory remarks that I have made, I now want to tell you about the fundamental particles that are mentioned in the verses ...
heydrarian. I asked for this before and you have not provided it. Again you tell us what the Quran contains in a wall of words but once more you fail to quote the actual text in the Quran that tells us about the particles.

Are you embarrassed by the Quran?

Are you ashamed to quote your holy book?

Or are you liar? Is the Quran silent on the fundamental particles?

Show us the text. Put up or shut up.
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Old 24th November 2021, 11:09 PM   #1918
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Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
God has sent Surah 112 of the Qur'an to future generations, who have attained a high level of knowledge,
Here is the verse for which heydarian says you need a high level of knowledge.

Quran surah 112
1 Say : he is Allah
2 Allah the eternal absolute;
3 He begetteth not, nor is he forgotten;
4 And there is none like unto him

Hedarian, did you notice the previous verse surah 111 in which Muhammad curses his own uncle and his aunt to hellfire because they did not believe in him. And went around telling people he was a fake?

Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
I have already told you that verse 53 of Sura 41 proves the existence of God in a distinct way. Meaning:

"Soon we will show you in the heavens (the universe) and in yourself (the masterpiece of creation, the molecules of the life of the DNA) to know that God is right. Are these not enough to prove the existence of God? They testify. "
For the unenlightened the words in brackets in the above quote are added, and do not appear in the Quran. The following verse is what heydarian claims proves the existence of God.


Quran surah 41.53 Soon we will show them our signs in the (furthest ) regions (of the earth) and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the truth. Is it not enough that the Lord doth witness all things?
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 25th November 2021, 04:55 AM   #1919
heydarian saeed
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Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan View Post
The Quran is a bloodthirsty book that commands you to kill non believers. Repeatedly. Stop trying to pretend that isn't the case.

Deal with the fact that your book instructs you to kill people like me Heydarian, stop deflecting.
I'm sorry
No, I will not kill anyone. Not only do I not kill you who are infidels. I do not kill any human being. I love human beings with all my being. And I love them. Those who are corrupt and criminal are prosecuted by civil and judicial laws. If you mean the government of my country. I am not a politician. And I do not want to know. But you check and see. Iran has friendly relations with China and the Soviet Union, which are infidels. And we have no problem with each other. The verses in the Qur'an for killing infidels are related to the wars of infidels against Muslims in the time of Muhammad. And his sentence has been executed. It has nothing to do with our time.
Of course, if a country or group intends to invade our privacy. We stand in front of it like a mountain. And we have no fear. And we treat him like him. And about the divine torment that is hard for you. I must say that: Our mentality towards divine punishments is wrong. The verses of torment in the Qur'an are for fear. you understood? That is, God says that human beings should behave properly. And do not commit sin, corruption or crime. Be a good human being for fear of punishment. It also says heaven to encourage good and humanitarian deeds.
On the other hand, God says in the Qur'an: It is not obligatory in your choice. The choice is yours. Choose any way you like. Do you want to suffer? Do you want to go to heaven? Both of these depend on our behavior and actions. Everyone sees the consequences of their actions. I will not be judged for you. You will not be judged for me. This is quite simple and understandable.
Do not hurt yourself too much. be happy. And do not worry at all. I know your peace of mind has diminished. And you are worried. Let me tell you why: Your unbelief has made this your mentality. Belief in God, of course, is very soothing in its logical and correct way. Of course, theism is a blind imitation, and I do not recommend it at all. The choice is yours. Please do not continue this discussion. And be positive.
I hope you have a good and happy weekend. Hope to meet
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Old 25th November 2021, 05:01 AM   #1920
MarkCorrigan
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Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
I'm sorry
No, I will not kill anyone. Not only do I not kill you who are infidels. I do not kill any human being. I love human beings with all my being. And I love them. Those who are corrupt and criminal are prosecuted by civil and judicial laws. If you mean the government of my country. I am not a politician. And I do not want to know. But you check and see. Iran has friendly relations with China and the Soviet Union, which are infidels. And we have no problem with each other. The verses in the Qur'an for killing infidels are related to the wars of infidels against Muslims in the time of Muhammad. And his sentence has been executed. It has nothing to do with our time.
Of course, if a country or group intends to invade our privacy. We stand in front of it like a mountain. And we have no fear. And we treat him like him. And about the divine torment that is hard for you. I must say that: Our mentality towards divine punishments is wrong. The verses of torment in the Qur'an are for fear. you understood? That is, God says that human beings should behave properly. And do not commit sin, corruption or crime. Be a good human being for fear of punishment. It also says heaven to encourage good and humanitarian deeds.
On the other hand, God says in the Qur'an: It is not obligatory in your choice. The choice is yours. Choose any way you like. Do you want to suffer? Do you want to go to heaven? Both of these depend on our behavior and actions. Everyone sees the consequences of their actions. I will not be judged for you. You will not be judged for me. This is quite simple and understandable.
Do not hurt yourself too much. be happy. And do not worry at all. I know your peace of mind has diminished. And you are worried. Let me tell you why: Your unbelief has made this your mentality. Belief in God, of course, is very soothing in its logical and correct way. Of course, theism is a blind imitation, and I do not recommend it at all. The choice is yours. Please do not continue this discussion. And be positive.
I hope you have a good and happy weekend. Hope to meet
I;m not asking if you DO kill people and I'm not talking about Iran, I'm asking you to deal with the fact the Quran instructs you to do so. Why does the Quran instruct you to kill non believers?

Why would a moral book written by a perfect god command you to kill people simply for not believing?

As you bring up hell, why would a moral god create eternal punishment for finite crimes? Why is the morality of the god of the Quran worse than fallible humans? Why does it read like the rantings of a barbaric warlord rather than a loving creator?

The Quran is worthless as a book of morality unless you're using it as an example of how not to do it.
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