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Tags Coronavirus , Coronavirus conspiracies , diseases , medical conspiracies

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Old 21st November 2021, 02:50 PM   #3121
Pixel42
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
And yet here we are, almost a year after mass vaccination began and with half the world population having received at least one dose, and it's not the vaccinated filling hospital beds and ICUs but the unvaccinated. Strange, that.
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Old 21st November 2021, 03:16 PM   #3122
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Aren't they? Some estimates I've seen suggest that about 99 percent of the hospitalized, and a similar percentage of deaths, are of unvaccinated people. And if the statistic is correct, and only about 1 percent of vaccinated victims end up in the hospital, it's pretty likely that, if infected, they will be returning to work sooner too.

It's kind of hard to tote boxes if you're in one.
Where I live, they actually publish pretty complete data on this.

In San Diego hospitalizations run about 1/6th of the rate for fully vaccinated v unvaccinated. Cases run about 1/3.

https://content.govdelivery.com/atta...2021.11.17.pdf
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Old 21st November 2021, 04:03 PM   #3123
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I had just decided that I finally will go and get my Covid vaccination, like most here have done.

Then, as I was about to go get it, I received an email with a new list of items to read, many of which contain new reports pointing to immune system damage caused by covid vaccinations. Some are from so called whistleblowers from inside the vaccine industry.

Now I think I will postpone getting vaccinated.
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Old 21st November 2021, 04:43 PM   #3124
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
To avoid confusing the others, please specify which category of "unvaccinated" you are referring to:


Is it 'a' or is it 'b' below?


a) Those folks officially categorized as "unvaccinated" due to missing one or more jabs in the jabbing plan of ongoing jabbings.

Or

b) Those folks in the "never been jabbed" category, (aka the control group).


Also, if you can, please stand and tell the class how you, or anyone, can determine which of those two categories of "unvaccinated" above, applies to each deceased covid victim in the set of statistics. If you find that you cannot make that determination, how would you know which category you are looking at, in the future.?

Thanx
I don't know, and I don't think it much matters. The category of "unvaccinated" can be presumed at the very least to consist of those who are not fully vaccinated. My response was to the prestige's question of whether those considered unvaccinated (by whatever criterion) are missing work. However one classifies them, the statistic suggests that those considered unvaccinated account for a great majority of hospitalizations and deaths, and thus, I think, the prestige's question is addressed, since those in hospitals or morgues do not contribute much to the work force. It might well be that some, or even many, in the category to which the statistic refers, are partially vaccinated, but that still leaves the totally unvaccinated sharing the pool.

The only site, that of the CDC, on which I've found specific information counts "fully vaccinated" as completion of the primary course without necessarily having the booster, and "unvaccinated," having no vaccine at all, and does not count those who have begun but not completed primary vaccination, at least for the graphs which are cited by many. Most of the sites I've seen use the CDC data, which I suspect you would not accept anyway.

I presume that you, who I believe to be staunch advocate of "doing one's own research," might, if you find the question truly worth pursuing, do that very thing.
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Old 21st November 2021, 05:35 PM   #3125
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
(kind of kidding about Australia, I have it on good authority that the brave citizens of Melbourne will voice their concern tomorrow as well)
There were protests in several cities on the weekend. Personally I happen to think that these people are idiots, but they are entitled to have their voices heard. Fortunately this time the rallies were non-violent, and only one person was arrested.

Thousands of anti-lockdown, vaccine mandate protesters march at COVID rallies across Australia
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Old 21st November 2021, 11:45 PM   #3126
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
I had just decided that I finally will go and get my Covid vaccination, like most here have done.

Then, as I was about to go get it, I received an email with a new list of items to read, many of which contain new reports pointing to immune system damage caused by covid vaccinations. Some are from so called whistleblowers from inside the vaccine industry.

Now I think I will postpone getting vaccinated.
What's your method for determining the reliability of such reports?
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Old 22nd November 2021, 03:59 AM   #3127
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
I had just decided that I finally will go and get my Covid vaccination, like most here have done...
Of course there is going to be a "...but,..."

Quote:
Then, as I was about to go get it, I received an email with a new list of items to read, many of which contain new reports pointing to immune system damage caused by covid vaccinations. Some are from so called whistleblowers from inside the vaccine industry.
....and there it is.

How conveniently coincidental. Pray tell...how this "list of items" are different from all that you have received so far and been debunked in these pages?

Quote:
Now I think I will postpone getting vaccinated.
You are fooling no one but yourself.
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Old 22nd November 2021, 04:22 AM   #3128
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Personally I happen to think that these people are idiots, but they are entitled to have their voices heard.
Most people's tolerance of the sort of contrarianism we see in this thread is equally high, but I do wonder if there's a limit to it. When they or their loved ones are still unable to get the timely medical treatment they need because hospital beds continue to be unnecessarily occupied by diseased antivaxxers, might we start to see a backlash?
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Old 22nd November 2021, 08:10 AM   #3129
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
This is more bilge from Mercola.
The claims by Bridle are, unsurprisingly, unevidenced.
Bubba: is this one of the things you posted that you believe, or one that you don't believe?
If you believed it before, do you still believe it, now you know there's no evidence for it?

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...ccines-spike-/
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Old 22nd November 2021, 09:52 AM   #3130
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Twice bitten, once dead.

Quote:
Michael Link, 54, Greenville, SC. Antivaxxer, dead from COVID complications.
According to this obituary Michael died November 20, 2021. Michael is proof that there is Karma. He got COVID in June of 2020, long before vaccines were available and was in the hospital for 4 months. He was in rehab and on oxygen since then. As the vaccine became available he posted MANY anti-vaxx posts throughout 2021 but they really ramped up in the last couple of months. Then he got COVID again, and this time it killed him proving the Karma will come and get you. He leaves behind his wife and 6 kids
I would call this double cement-headed.
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Old 22nd November 2021, 11:04 AM   #3131
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
I had just decided that I finally will go and get my Covid vaccination, like most here have done.

Then, as I was about to go get it, I received an email with a new list of items to read, many of which contain new reports pointing to immune system damage caused by covid vaccinations. Some are from so called whistleblowers from inside the vaccine industry.

Now I think I will postpone getting vaccinated.
Once again, the media you consume has gulled you into making a bad decision.
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Old 22nd November 2021, 11:06 AM   #3132
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Most people's tolerance of the sort of contrarianism we see in this thread is equally high, but I do wonder if there's a limit to it. When they or their loved ones are still unable to get the timely medical treatment they need because hospital beds continue to be unnecessarily occupied by diseased antivaxxers, might we start to see a backlash?

You are misinformed. There is no "pandemic on the unvaccinated". You just hear this propaganda slogan everywhere, and that should be a red flag for you. Because "everywhere" means all countries in the cartel grip, they start simultaneously with these terms on the level of "politicians" and media, and they go over to the next term when the signal is given.

Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
There were protests in several cities on the weekend. Personally I happen to think that these people are idiots, but they are entitled to have their voices heard. Fortunately this time the rallies were non-violent, and only one person was arrested.

Thousands of anti-lockdown, vaccine mandate protesters march at COVID rallies across Australia

There is a German expat near Melbourne who informs the "alternative" media scene here about what is going on there. Frankly, I like to believe (although I'm not sure) that this level of police state (you can be cute about it, but it isn't cute) wouldn't fly here. The guy tried to convince his wife to flee to Florida where he has business and real estate, but she has kids in Australia and can't be sure she can return should they get into trouble given she gets a permit (she needs a permit!) to leave the country in the first place. Since a week or two the expat cannot leave the place by regular flight without taking a "jab" anymore, so it is out of the question. He will have to sit it out (He even offered to lease a private jet for tens of thousands of dollars to leave).
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Old 22nd November 2021, 11:15 AM   #3133
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Those agreeing that mandatory jabs would not be OK, hold that those accepting jabs to save their jobs are technically not forced.


Soon it wont matter, mandatory jabs will spread from Austria.
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Old 22nd November 2021, 11:16 AM   #3134
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Austria doesnt deserve to be singled out

Whereas 20th-Century totalitarianism wore its politics on its sleeve, New Normal totalitarianism presents itself as a non-ideological (i.e., supra-political) reaction to a global public health emergency.

And, thus, its classic totalitarian features — are not hidden, because they are impossible to hide, but are recontextualized in a pathologized official narrative.

The Untermenschen become “the Unvaccinated.” Swastika lapel pins become medical-looking masks. Aryan ID papers become “vaccination passes.” Irrefutably senseless social restrictions and mandatory public-obedience rituals become “lockdowns,” “social distancing,” and so on.


New Normal Austria decreed that, as of February, experimental mRNA injections will be mandatory for the entire population.


https://consentfactory.org/2021/11/2...tarianism-101/
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Old 22nd November 2021, 11:20 AM   #3135
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Twice bitten, once dead.

Quote:
Michael Link, 54, Greenville, SC. Antivaxxer, dead from COVID complications.
According to this obituary Michael died November 20, 2021. Michael is proof that there is Karma. He got COVID in June of 2020, long before vaccines were available and was in the hospital for 4 months. He was in rehab and on oxygen since then. As the vaccine became available he posted MANY anti-vaxx posts throughout 2021 but they really ramped up in the last couple of months. Then he got COVID again, and this time it killed him proving the Karma will come and get you. He leaves behind his wife and 6 kids
I would call this double cement-headed.
Whatever happened to his superior natural 'sterilising immunity' (TM Tippit)?
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Old 22nd November 2021, 12:35 PM   #3136
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Twice bitten, once dead.



I would call this double cement-headed.
So much for "sterilizing immunity." Though I guess he's really immune now to just about everything.
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Old 22nd November 2021, 12:44 PM   #3137
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Oh, is that how sterilizing immunity works???
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Old 22nd November 2021, 02:07 PM   #3138
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
You are misinformed. There is no "pandemic on the unvaccinated". You just hear this propaganda slogan everywhere, and that should be a red flag for you.
I don't recall ever hearing that phrase until I read it just now in your post.

I pay attention to facts, not slogans.
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Old 22nd November 2021, 05:52 PM   #3139
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I don't recall ever hearing that phrase until I read it just now in your post.

I pay attention to facts, not slogans.
It’s a phrase exclusive to anti vax ctists.
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Old 22nd November 2021, 09:26 PM   #3140
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Check out the flag in the middle. The British Union of Fascists and National Socialists



and in fact the 18 in her username
What's the 18 supposed to mean?
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Old 23rd November 2021, 05:58 AM   #3141
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
What's the 18 supposed to mean?
18 = AH = Adolf Hitler
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Old 23rd November 2021, 07:36 AM   #3142
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
What's the 18 supposed to mean?
Adolf Hitler- the initials are the first and eighth letters of the alphabet.

Note also the post about having blond-haired and blue-eyed children. Lovely people, these.
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Old 23rd November 2021, 07:51 AM   #3143
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
What's the 18 supposed to mean?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_18 although it may just be 2018
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Old 23rd November 2021, 08:24 AM   #3144
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Mod WarningI've allowed the posts above about the number 18 as a very brief aside for context, but it doesn't need any further follow-up in this thread.
Responding to this mod box in thread will be off topic Posted By:Darat
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Old 23rd November 2021, 08:58 AM   #3145
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
I had just decided that I finally will go and get my Covid vaccination, like most here have done.
No, you didn't.
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Old 23rd November 2021, 10:01 AM   #3146
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spike protein issue

The issue raised by Dr. Bridle is several months old (at least back to June), and others do no agree. Dr. Ratner said, "...The amounts that are made after the mRNA is injected are very small and it almost exclusively stays locally. It is nowhere near the amount he [Bridle] was talking about.” See also this link.
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Old 23rd November 2021, 10:54 AM   #3147
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
I had just decided that I finally will go and get my Covid vaccination, like most here have done.

Then, as I was about to go get it, I received an email with a new list of items to read, many of which contain new reports pointing to immune system damage caused by covid vaccinations. Some are from so called whistleblowers from inside the vaccine industry.

Now I think I will postpone getting vaccinated.
I don’ care. Don’t get it then.
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Old 23rd November 2021, 11:30 AM   #3148
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https://boingboing.net/2021/11/23/se...vax-conference

Quote:
Days after a group of anti-science doctors, who don't believe in the Covid-19 vaccine, met at a conference in Florida, seven have so far come down with Covid. And one — Dr. Bruce Boros, a 71-year-old cardiologist — is said to be "seriously ill," according to Daily Beast.

The group of 600–700 doctors gathered for the Florida Covid Summit earlier this month at, believe it or not, the World Equestrian Center — a perfect venue for doctors who prescribe ivermectin, or horse deworming medication, to their human Covid patients. And it was there that Dr. Boros said, "I have been on ivermectin for 16 months, my wife and I have never felt healthier in my life," a sentiment that was short-lived.
continues
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Old 23rd November 2021, 01:50 PM   #3149
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On the subject of whether deaths are undercounted or overestimated.

Russia has a moderately bad Covid problem but better than the UK, Italy or the US according to its official counts.

https://ourworldindata.org/explorers...EU~ITA~PER~RUS

Oh, the excess deaths tell a different story

https://ourworldindata.org/explorers...EU~ITA~PER~RUS

It's almost as though people in charge of organisations don't like to report that they're not dealing well with crises. Not just governments.

If you have an autocratic government, they can often alter the official statistics, but often they let things slip.
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Old 24th November 2021, 01:59 PM   #3150
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
The issue raised by Dr. Bridle is several months old (at least back to June), and others do no agree. Dr. Ratner said, "...The amounts that are made after the mRNA is injected are very small and it almost exclusively stays locally. It is nowhere near the amount he [Bridle] was talking about.” See also this link.
In addition, I just read somewhere (sorry, can't recall source, but you could likely find it if need be) that this issue is almost certainly temporary, fading as the vaccine itself loses its potency. It's a bit odd and amusing that those most convinced that the vaccine's effect won't last long enough to be useful, are also convinced that virtually the same effect of the same vaccine will last forever.
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Old 24th November 2021, 07:45 PM   #3151
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Just to nip this one in the bud before one of our resident CTs tries to claim that the Australian military is forcibly vaccinating Aboriginal people in the Northern Territory.

Quote:
AAP has an update on what is happening in the NT:

The Australian Defence Force has rejected “wild” social media claims that it’s forcibly vaccinating Indigenous Northern Territorians against COVID-19.

The territory detected one new case overnight, bringing the outbreak to 52 cases after a teenager from Binjari Aboriginal community tested positive.

“This shows us the hard lockdown is working and caring for close contacts in quarantine is working,” Chief Minister Michael Gunner said on Thursday.

It comes as the ADF launches a public relations blitz following colourful and false Facebook posts by various groups and individuals about the military’s involvement in Top End’s pandemic response.

Some of the posts allege infected Aboriginal people are being forcibly transferred to quarantine facilities while likening them to the stolen generation.

One group of traditional owners also accused ADF personnel of holding down people in some Indigenous communities and injecting them with the vaccine.

The misinformation has been shared and reposted to multiple platforms and there are fears it could threaten efforts to contain an outbreak.

The ADF has rejected the accusations, saying they are lies.

“Defence is aware of social media posts claiming the Australian Defence Force is forcibly vaccinating or detaining members of the Australian community,” a spokesman said in a statement.

“These claims are emphatically false.”

Colonel Tim Rutherford, the ADF’s NT COVID-19 response commander, said the posts were made by “issue-motivated” groups using Defence’s involvement as a “prop”.

“The claims are wild and various,” he told the ABC on Thursday morning.

“They’re thoroughly untrue.”

Col Rutherford said there had been no complaints from people in the locked-down Aboriginal communities of Binjari and Rockhole, 330km south of Darwin.

“On the ground the people in the communities have been great and understand we’re there to support them, to keep them safe, protect country, families and communities,” he said.

“They’ve been great ... but it’s creating a stir elsewhere and that’s attracting the attention of some of our coordinating staff who are now having to respond to this misinformation.”

He urged members of the public to be aware of the facts before sharing social media posts.
Source
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Old 24th November 2021, 11:39 PM   #3152
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The Chief Minister is pulling no punches denouncing this crap:

Chief Minister criticises 'misinformation spreading online' about Northern Territory's COVID-19 outbreak

Quote:
Northern Territory's Chief Minister Michael Gunner has used a COVID-19 update press conference to denounce misinformation spread by anti-vaxxers and overseas conspiracy theorists who, he says, could harm Indigenous Territorians.

After announcing one new case in the outbreak and the lifting of the hard lockdown for one of the communities considered most at risk earlier this week, Mr Gunner addressed what he called a "huge amount of misinformation spreading online in the last few days".

"I don't really want to lean into the lies that are being spread," he said.

"Although, given these press conferences genuinely get spliced up by international trolls: 'Hello, conspiracy theorists overseas watching this: Please, get a life'."

...

Today Mr Gunner took aim at "insane, unhinged stuff spreading online" that he said "overwhelmingly comes from people who don't live here and know nothing about us".

He said that "99.9 per cent of the 'BS' that is flying around the internet about the Territory is coming from flogs outside the Territory — mostly America, Canada and the UK".

The Chief Minister says it is "clearly a positive day" after the Northern Territory recorded one new case of coronavirus overnight.

"People who have nothing better than to really make up lies about us, because their own lives are so small and so sad," he added.

Mr Gunner said bad-faith conspiracy theorists spreading rumours online would not distract from his effort "to protect the oldest continuous living culture on the planet".

"We don't need to pay any more attention to them. We don't need to listen to them," he said.

"We have tens of thousands of years of history, lore, custom and song to keep alive

"And, if anybody thinks we will be distracted or intimidated by tinfoil hat-wearing tossers sitting in their parent's basements in Florida, then you do not know us Territorians."
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Old Yesterday, 02:59 AM   #3153
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Just to nip this one in the bud before one of our resident CTs tries to claim that the Australian military is forcibly vaccinating Aboriginal people in the Northern Territory.



Source
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post

Thanks for both of these.

I've just come across a nazi antivaxer making those claims, but hadn't bothered to look into them. Except that they were obviously untrue.
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Old Yesterday, 08:00 AM   #3154
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
In addition, I just read somewhere (sorry, can't recall source, but you could likely find it if need be) that this issue is almost certainly temporary, fading as the vaccine itself loses its potency. It's a bit odd and amusing that those most convinced that the vaccine's effect won't last long enough to be useful, are also convinced that virtually the same effect of the same vaccine will last forever.

If you are still not immune after two infections, those of us who believe in natural immunity recommend a booster infection!
Nothing makes you feel more at one with nature than the third infection.
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old Yesterday, 04:26 PM   #3155
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Just in case anyone here other than the usual suspects is wondering about "sterilizing immunity," we just got a call from my stepson in North Dakota. He, his wife, and his now 3 1/2 year old daughter have just caught Covid for the second time. The adults were also vaccinated, but the mother was already a "long Covid" sufferer, and is not doing so well.

Edited by Darat:  Rule 11 removed.
The idea of sterilizing immunity is ********.

So yes, you can get it a second time, and yes, little children can get it, not only once but again. And yes, since we must stay civil I will leave my commentary at this: [choose your epithet and its recipients].
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Old Yesterday, 05:32 PM   #3156
arthwollipot
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Thanks for both of these.

I've just come across a nazi antivaxer making those claims, but hadn't bothered to look into them. Except that they were obviously untrue.
Of course, a diehard CTer will obviously claim that these denials by government officials aren't trustworthy, but the fact remains that there is exactly no evidence that detentions or forced vaccinations are occurring, only wild claims from people who aren't even there.
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Old Yesterday, 05:55 PM   #3157
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Whoo, this story just keeps getting better and better:

Amnesty UK accused of ‘spreading false information’ about Northern Territory Covid outbreak

Quote:
NT Aboriginal health organisation and Amnesty’s Australian arm ‘extremely disappointed’ by UK office’s statement


Amnesty UK has been accused of “spreading false information” about the Northern Territory’s Covid outbreak in an extraordinary joint statement from the territory’s peak Aboriginal health organisation and Amnesty’s own Australian operation.

Disinformation about the Covid outbreak in Aboriginal communities near Katherine, spread by third parties online, was on Thursday described by the NT chief minister as “conspiracy theories” pushed by “tinfoil hat wearing tossers”.

Amsant (the Aboriginal Medical Services Alliance Northern Territory) and Amnesty Australia subsequently said they were “extremely disappointed” that Amnesty International UK had issued a press release with a headline that misrepresented the situation on the ground without first consulting Aboriginal people.

...

Amnesty International released a statement on Thursday via its UK office with the headline “Northern Territory: Australian defence force response to Covid-19 outbreak in Aboriginal communities must not inflict trauma”.

[Amnesty Australia director Sam] Klintworth said she apologised for the release.

“We’re very disappointed that Amnesty UK reissued a release that we at Amnesty Australia were very careful to ensure was doing precisely the opposite of feeding the spread of harmful information,” she said.

“The addition of the headline, which was not in the original statement, suggesting the ADF was inflicting trauma, completely changed the sentiment of the statement which meant to convey Amnesty Australia’s full support of vaccine access and the crucial work of groups such as Amsant and we are deeply sorry for the distress this has caused.”

Paterson said the UK release “required an immediate correction”. Amnesty UK was contacted for comment. There is no suggestion Amnesty UK deliberately intended to spread false information by adding the headline to the release.

...

On Thursday, Aboriginal elders, health organisations and frontline workers in the Northern Territory condemned false information circulating on social media.

The chief minister, Michael Gunner, blamed it on “tinfoil hat wearing tossers, sitting in their parents’ basements in Florida”.
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Old Today, 03:38 AM   #3158
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Still not getting an expalnation of why FDA needs 55 years to release the same data which only took 108 days in order to release the vaccine? Is it the same amount of paperwork or not?
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Old Today, 04:27 AM   #3159
Aridas
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Originally Posted by Azrael 5 View Post
Still not getting an expalnation of why FDA needs 55 years to release the same data which only took 108 days in order to release the vaccine? Is it the same amount of paperwork or not?
The most solid explanation seems to be that the FDA's request has more to do with limited available manpower for that job, that those doing that job also have to handle various other requests at the same time, and asking for 55 years is, in fair part, a tactic to try to get the requesting party to narrow their request to something more specific and manageable. Either way, I've long been in favor of expanding areas of the government like that which handles FOIA requests, among other areas that easily get bogged down. I don't like the FDA's request, either, of course.

Going a bit further, to answer your direct question? It's NOT the same amount of either work or paperwork and it's pretty much a given that it's being handled by different groups with both different sizes and duties.
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Old Today, 04:58 AM   #3160
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
A thread by an indigenous person self-isolating at the Howard springs quarantine facility


https://twitter.com/lukeae88/status/1463286412707450882

Quote:

Don't know who will see this, but as I've got plenty of time on my hands I thought I might as well counterbalance all the misinformation out there

I'm indigenous, currently covid positive and am currently staying at the Howard springs quarantine facility.

https://twitter.com/lukeae88/status/1463292063257038849

Quote:
For example. To think no one would film all these soldiers and guns holding down people is pure fantasy.

Comparing it to genocide and **** is disgusting. There's thousands of indigenous people in Katherine alone. Only 200 odd are In howard springs. If it's a 'genoicide' then
good thread
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