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Tags Kyle Rittenhouse , murder cases

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Old 24th November 2021, 01:55 AM   #2761
Warp12
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
It's possible. I hope for his sake he will take his lawyer's advice and shut up and change his name and go somewhere where nobody knows him.
Trump says Kyle Rittenhouse visited him in Mar-a-Lago after trial

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/1...t-trial-523283
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Old 24th November 2021, 02:04 AM   #2762
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Trump says Kyle Rittenhouse visited him in Mar-a-Lago after trial

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/1...t-trial-523283
simple Bayesian statistics suggest that this is a lie until we hear from a more reliable source.
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Old 24th November 2021, 02:08 AM   #2763
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I'm not sure what point you think you're making. Violence committed by gangs is still street crime, not some kind of political statement. But the key factor is that nobody tries to justify or rationalize street crime or gang violence, unlike the Rittenhouse/McMichael/vigilante crowd that thinks they're entitled to shoot at will.
The point in the article and the point you made was "Forcing their will". Killing people because they will not bend to your will and leave an area for the purposes of criminal behavior is the very epitome of "forcing your will" on somebody.

Who has decided that all or even some of the relatively recent killings of black people by white people is a politically motivated act? By what authority do they make that claim?
I have certainly not seen any scholarly studies supporting that point.
I have seen some very politicized writing by people with a huge bias making that claim - but idiots killing people cannot all be politically motivated.

As for people using everything in the book to support their views - both sides do it.
I have seen very prominent people quote a part of a speech by Martin Luther King - very much out of context of course - as stating he supported the idea of looting and theft during demonstrations in order to justify what was happening during some BLM protests. (And no - I do not think that all the looting was by done or caused by the BLM protesters. Again - idiots do stupid things when the opportunity presents itself. Black, white, pink, orange, or zebra striped - stupidity is an equal opportunity affliction.)

A lot of people come up with all sorts of twisted and stupid ways to make their political claims seem justified.
This is a skeptics board - or once claimed to be I guess. We should all try to be a little skeptical of all claims until proven otherwise.

Getting back to the point - the claim is yours to prove. Prove that there is political motivation behind white people killing blacks in all cases. Prove that it wasn't just stupidity or general malice or fear or too many Clint Eastwood movies.
Too bad the Million Dollar Challenge is no longer in play. People that can read minds and judge motivations incredibly accurately without even knowing the person is quite the paranormal feat!!!
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Old 24th November 2021, 02:11 AM   #2764
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Trump says Kyle Rittenhouse visited him in Mar-a-Lago after trial

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/1...t-trial-523283
If he did - Rittenhouse is even stupider than I thought he was.
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Old 24th November 2021, 02:25 AM   #2765
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
If he did - Rittenhouse is even stupider than I thought he was.
https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/...570_qupnop.jpg

Picture exists.
Name-calling in this case is headed in the direction of "He's a poopy-head; no he's a moron; no he's a dipstick; no he's an idiot; no, he's a douchebag" etc etc etc.
(P.S. - It's not a fake image, like the photoshopped one now circulating of Rittenhouse being awarded Presidential Medal).
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Old 24th November 2021, 02:50 AM   #2766
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he is a liar.
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Old 24th November 2021, 03:09 AM   #2767
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
If he did - Rittenhouse is even stupider than I thought he was.
It's his right though. And should be. However disgusting it may be
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Old 24th November 2021, 06:11 AM   #2768
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I'm not sure what point you think you're making. Violence committed by gangs is still street crime, not some kind of political statement. But the key factor is that nobody tries to justify or rationalize street crime or gang violence, unlike the Rittenhouse/McMichael/vigilante crowd that thinks they're entitled to shoot at will defend themselves.
FTFY.
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Old 24th November 2021, 06:15 AM   #2769
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
It's possible. I hope for his sake he will take his lawyer's advice and shut up and change his name and go somewhere where nobody knows him.
I predict a future Congressional run.
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Old 24th November 2021, 06:50 AM   #2770
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Commentary by Cathy Young


Quote:
After the acquittal of Kyle Rittenhouse, the 18-year-old from Illinois who shot three men (and killed two) during a riot in Kenosha, Wisconsin over a year ago, bad narratives of the case have continued to float around on the left.



...


...it’s a fact that for much of U.S. history, black Americans were targets of broadly sanctioned racist violence by both police and white civilians and had no meaningful right to self-defense against whites. A common progressive belief today is that these norms remain “baked into” the system despite all the strides in civil rights and dramatic changes in societal attitudes since the 1960s. This proposition is often treated as axiomatic. But the reality, as with issues of crime and race in general, is far more complex, and even in areas where racial bias clearly exists, it’s never as simple as “this happens to blacks/this happens to whites.” There are plenty of cases of white people with guns, including toy guns or air guns, being shot by police due to tragic error or negligence (usually with no consequences to the cops). There are plenty of cases of black people with guns surrendering to the police alive. (If there weren’t, prison demographics would be very different.) To suggest that a black teenager walking toward the cops in Kenosha with his hands in the air and a rifle at his side would have been shot dead on the spot is unwarranted and unhelpful.

https://cathy.arcdigital.media/p/aft...ender-violence
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Old 24th November 2021, 06:52 AM   #2771
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Originally Posted by Graham2001 View Post
Who is Cathy Young and why does her opinion matter?

ETA: In case anyone else is curious:

Quote:
Catherine Alicia Young is a Russian-born American journalist. Young is primarily known for her writing about rape and feminism. She is the author of two books, a frequent contributor to the libertarian monthly Reason, and a regular columnist for Newsday and RealClearPolitics
I'm still really confused on why her opinion here should be taken with any seriousness. Are we just quoting random ass people that support whatever we agree with now?
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Old 24th November 2021, 06:53 AM   #2772
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Originally Posted by Graham2001 View Post
Kinda ridiculous opinion given that it is well documented that the Kenosha police treated the militia nuts as unofficial allies. It's extremely obvious that the police were not neutral enforcers of the law in this case.

What doesn't get enough coverage is that the police used crowd control tactics to push the protestors towards the armed vigilantes. It's hard to explain why they would do so other than they were hoping for a violent clash. Any person trying to keep violence to a minimum would know that separating adversarial groups would be the best option.

This is a recurring theme of police looking the other way for right wing violence at protests.

Quote:
In fact, it appears Kenosha law enforcement coordinated an effort to push protestors south on Sheridan Road, towards armed civilians and militia groups. Ryan Thomas Balch, an armed civilian affiliated with the Boogaloo Bois, was recorded saying on the night of the shootings, “Do you know what the cops told us today? They were like, ‘We’re gonna push them down by you, because you can deal with them, and then we’re gonna leave.’” In an August 26, 2020 written statement, Balch added, “K[enosha] P[olice] D[epartment] made a conscious decision to abandon the people of Kenosha to people they felt justified in using machines and weapons of war against. And were going to piss them off and drive them at us and let the chips fall where they may.”
https://www.aclu.org/news/criminal-l...d-accountable/

Cops were happy to let militia nuts like Kyle engage in extrajudicial violence. They were probably jealous they could not do the same.
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Old 24th November 2021, 06:59 AM   #2773
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Who is Cathy Young and why does her opinion matter?

ETA: In case anyone else is curious:



I'm still really confused on why her opinion here should be taken with any seriousness. Are we just quoting random ass people that support whatever we agree with now?
I don't know, man. She seems to have at least as much credibility and a better stage to express her opinion on than most everyone in this thread.

Also, I'm pretty sure that people quoting those with similar opinions started well before "now".
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Old 24th November 2021, 07:04 AM   #2774
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I don't know, man. She seems to have at least as much credibility and a better stage to express her opinion on than most everyone in this thread.
Your opinion of others in this thread, to them and myself, means nothing to my question. She has no credibility to me, I have no idea who she is and the more I find out about her the less credible she seems. So my point still stands, she's just someone that agrees with you guys. Therefore, her opinion is deemed relevant....by you guys lol.

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Also, I'm pretty sure that people quoting those with similar opinions started well before "now".
I guess I wasn't paying attention. My quotes usually come from news sources, not random people that share my opinion. The way you post makes a lot more sense now though.
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Old 24th November 2021, 07:57 AM   #2775
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Putting this reply from another thread in here because this is probably where it actually belongs.

Quote:
“Anthony Huber, man, he went down like a hero… He thought there was a threat there, and he was reacting to it.”
I truly do not believe Huber, Grosskreutz, Jump-Kick Man, and the others who swarmed Kyle after he shot Rosenbaum believed he was a "threat" or an "active shooter" - etc.

Many of them had seen Rosenbaum himself. They knew there was at least one volatile, aggressive person on their side, but let's be real: they knew there side was chock full of people like that. Rosenbaum may have been the most extreme example that night (unclear if that was even the case, but he may have been) but they had lots of people who were aggressive, pissed off about anyone trying to thwart their criminality and destruction, and plenty of people who'd attack someone on the other side.

When they heard that Kyle had shot someone, let's think about what was going on there. First off, how do they even know he's not one of THEIR people who got attacked by a right winger? Well, they see he's clean cut and carrying an AR-15, and some of them had seen him with a fire extinguisher and standing with the other defender types earlier. This is how they quickly, visually know he's on the other side.

So, what does that inform about their understanding of who he is and his role there? They know that side were there to prevent setting fires, burning cars and buildings, looting, destroying.

What does this mean about the most likely explanation for why someone like Kyle would end up shooting someone else? It's obvious that the most likely explanation is he shot someone who attacked him in anger for trying to thwart destructive rioting. That is indeed exactly what happened, and some people in the immediate area of Rosenbaum being shot will have known that was PRECISELY what happened. The others who swarmed in with less information had every reason to assume that was roughly what must've taken place.

What else did they know? Well, they knew it was an outrageously young looking kid and they knew he was running toward the police line. They knew he wasn't "actively shooting" at them, he was trying to get to where the cops were. Gaige Grosskreutz was actually told directly by Kyle that he was headed for the police.

So no, they didn't believe he was a threat or an active shooter or see themselves as heroically stopping someone who was about to start indiscriminately popping people 50-100 feet away, opening up on crowds of peaceful protestors.

They were there not with a "peacefully let our feelings be heard" mindset. They viewed themselves as chaos agents and "F the system, man! burn it all down!" types. They viewed Kyle and his group as contemptible "chuds." Right-wing, Trump voting, Christian dummies that they had nothing but pure hatred toward. The fact that they would dare to try to put out fires or ward them off from certain businesses enraged them.

They knew full well that they were the criminals, and Kyle and his group were seeking to maintain order.

So when they swarmed Kyle, it was not Huber doing some desperate, heroic move to try to stop a loose cannon active shooter and save lives. Absolutely not. The implication is a total insult to anyone's intelligence.

Huber and the others thought "this is some chud who shot one of my fellow destructive criminal rioters, almost certainly in self-defense, and he's trying to make it to the fascist pig police line and they'll protect him because they view these chuds as effectively honorary pigs, man! ACAB! Let's beat his ass, quite possibly kill him, so he can't get to the pigs and be coddled by the unfair, racist justice system, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!"
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Old 24th November 2021, 08:13 AM   #2776
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Who is Cathy Young and why does her opinion matter?
Conservative intellectuals are an endangered and badly degraded species. For those who have made a hobby or career of watching or advocating on behalf of that species, spotting a specimen is cause for excitement.

Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Are we just quoting random ass people that support whatever we agree with now?
When were we not?
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Old 24th November 2021, 08:55 AM   #2777
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Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger View Post
When were we not?
As I mentioned, I usually quote news articles or sources. I don't generally quote people's opinions about that is going on. I might be out of the norm, apparently.
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Old 24th November 2021, 10:11 AM   #2778
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
If he did - Rittenhouse is even stupider than I thought he was.
It's definitely going to cause problems with Rittenhouse's many liberal supporters.
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Old 24th November 2021, 10:16 AM   #2779
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
It's definitely going to cause problems with Rittenhouse's many liberal supporters.
They're both freaking out on Twitter right now.
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Old 24th November 2021, 11:17 AM   #2780
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Kyle has internship options with ********* in congress.

Gosar Twitter Link




the hill dot com
Important update - Gosar wanted to arm-wrestle Madison Cawthorne (who is in a wheelchair), but Lauren Boebert wants to race him in a sprint.

Quote:
“I am so thrilled at the jury’s verdict here,” Boebert said. “Now, I do have some colleagues on the Hill who have, just like me, offered Kyle Rittenhouse an internship in their office and Madison Cawthorn–he said that he would arm wrestle me for this Kyle Rittenhouse internship. But Madison Cawthorn has some pretty big guns, and so I would like to challenge him to a sprint instead. Let’s make this fair.”
Yeah, fair!
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Old 24th November 2021, 11:52 AM   #2781
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Since we’ve had questionable analogies in this thread already, let me add one that’s been rattling around in my head…

On my Twitter feed, I get a couple chess problems daily, such as this one:



In finding the right move, it helps to know, among other things…

When the game was played.
Who the opponents were and their ratings at the time.
The time controls in effect.
The opening played.
Etc, etc.

Except…

None of that matters at all. In fact, the players involved may have trouble seeing just the position as it is, forgetting all the distractors listed above. The position speaks for itself, regardless of what went before.

Where am I going? Take Rittenhouse’s situation as it was. Questions about how and when he got the gun, how he got it to the scene, his age, and virtually everything leading up to his situation is quite irrelevant to his claim of self defense.

That said, prior statements and tweets could help establish his frame of mind going into the situation. Still, even that doesn’t reflect on his claim of self defense, once he did manage to get himself into the bind he found himself in.

Anyway, forgive the digression. I have chess on my mind with the World Chess Championship starting Friday.

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Old 24th November 2021, 12:27 PM   #2782
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
Since we’ve had questionable analogies in this thread already, let me add one that’s been rattling around in my head…
I think the analogy was workable for illustrating your point (which I agree with).

I also looked at that particular chess problem, but don’t quite understand it. I can see what I think are some opportunities, but am I supposed to be looking for forced mate?
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Old 24th November 2021, 01:26 PM   #2783
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
I think the analogy was workable for illustrating your point (which I agree with).

I also looked at that particular chess problem, but don’t quite understand it. I can see what I think are some opportunities, but am I supposed to be looking for forced mate?
Thanks. I was thinking it was a bit of a reach.

The only replies to the chess problem seemed to think the obvious BxR was the answer, but that it seemed WAY too obvious to be even a little interesting. But I can’t seem to find anything better.
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Old 24th November 2021, 02:51 PM   #2784
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(delete)

I stopped playing chess too many beers ago...

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Old 24th November 2021, 07:35 PM   #2785
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From Snopes.com:


Quote:
While on the 2020 presidential campaign trail, U.S. President Joe Biden called Kyle Rittenhouse a white supremacist.



Rating: Mostly True


What's True On two occasions, Biden made remarks or promoted a campaign advertisement that strongly suggested Rittenhouse was a white supremacist, or at least, closely associated with white supremacists and/or militia groups. However ...


What's False Biden did not explicitly describe Rittenhouse as a white supremacist.






https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ky...enhouse-biden/
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Old 25th November 2021, 04:01 AM   #2786
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/...570_qupnop.jpg

Picture exists.
Name-calling in this case is headed in the direction of "He's a poopy-head; no he's a moron; no he's a dipstick; no he's an idiot; no, he's a douchebag" etc etc etc.
(P.S. - It's not a fake image, like the photoshopped one now circulating of Rittenhouse being awarded Presidential Medal).
An immature, untrained young man taking a high capacity powerful rifle to what was obviously going to be a confrontational situation with groups of angry people is not too bright.
To do so without any planning or tactical discussion with his cohorts about "what ifs" or "watching each others six" is not too bright.
To go to a bar and pose with random people as if you were a celebrity after being charged with 3 murders is also not too bright.

Now that he has been acquitted by the jury (justly IMHO) according to the laws he was charged with he has become a pariah to many.
His very own good lawyer advised him to shut up, get a new identity, and get out of town.
The fact that Rittenhouse has not taken his very smart lawyer's advice, coupled with the not too bright actions he undertook to get him in this mess, gives me a strong case to state that my calling him stupid when he further fans the flames of hatred towards himself by visiting with Trump is not only fair - but accurate.
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Old 25th November 2021, 05:40 AM   #2787
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
An immature, untrained young man taking a high capacity powerful rifle to what was obviously going to be a confrontational situation with groups of angry people is not too bright.
To do so without any planning or tactical discussion with his cohorts about "what ifs" or "watching each others six" is not too bright.
To go to a bar and pose with random people as if you were a celebrity after being charged with 3 murders is also not too bright.
He was there in Kenosha with others, many others, similarly armed.
They were all "stupid" for being there? Perhaps.

They did have planning and tactical discussions. He specifically gave an interview with Richie McGinniss that indicated this fact.
Ryan Balch was watching his six, until they got separated at the Ultimate minimart.

He did not commit ANY 'murders' (where did you get 3 from, anyway?) -- two men ended up dead, as they attacked him. Those were justifiable homicides, not murders.
You admit this yourself in the very next sentence you uttered -----
Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
Now that he has been acquitted by the jury (justly IMHO) according to the laws he was charged with he has become a pariah to many.
His very own good lawyer advised him to shut up, get a new identity, and get out of town.
The fact that Rittenhouse has not taken his very smart lawyer's advice, coupled with the not too bright actions he undertook to get him in this mess, gives me a strong case to state that my calling him stupid when he further fans the flames of hatred towards himself by visiting with Trump is not only fair - but accurate.
Associated Press issued a story today regarding his future actions.
https://apnews.com/article/kyle-ritt...a0cef6d02fc8f3

“He could easily secure a seven-figure book contract,” said Andrew M. Stroth, a former talent agent and an attorney in Chicago with no ties to Rittenhouse. Rittenhouse, he said, “could monetize his brand and potentially make in the millions.”

Just because he is a pariah to many, doesn't mean he is stupid for making bank on his notoriety.

I personally believe he would be better-off taking it easy and quiet.
But, that's just me.
Nobody is waving multi-million-dollar contracts in my face.
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Old 25th November 2021, 05:43 AM   #2788
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post

“He could easily secure a seven-figure book contract,” said Andrew M. Stroth, a former talent agent and an attorney in Chicago with no ties to Rittenhouse. Rittenhouse, he said, “could monetize his brand and potentially make in the millions.”

Just because he is a pariah to many, doesn't mean he is stupid for making bank on his notoriety.

I personally believe he would be better-off taking it easy and quiet.
But, that's just me.
Nobody is waving multi-million-dollar contracts in my face.
Sure, right wing killers regularly can make a niche career out of the gun show circuit and selling memorabilia to fellow reprobates. Weaver did this, and Zimmerman is out there autographing confederate flag art or other nonsense.

Leaning into being a piece of **** does close other avenues of gainful employment. Rittenhouse would be wise to think carefully whether to double down on being a famous killer for white supremacy or trying to slink back into private life.

I would add that cashing in on his murderous fame likely increases the odds that someone will murder him in revenge.
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Old 25th November 2021, 06:00 AM   #2789
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Sure, right wing killers regularly can make a niche career out of the gun show circuit and selling memorabilia to fellow reprobates. Weaver did this, and Zimmerman is out there autographing confederate flag art or other nonsense.

Leaning into being a piece of **** does close other avenues of gainful employment. Rittenhouse would be wise to think carefully whether to double down on being a famous killer for white supremacy or trying to slink back into private life.

I would add that cashing in on his murderous fame likely increases the odds that someone will murder him in revenge.
I don't know everything his future holds...but I think his odds of getting laid just went way, way up.
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Old 25th November 2021, 07:39 AM   #2790
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I would add that cashing in on his murderous fame likely increases the odds that someone will murder him in revenge. kill Rittenhouse and then claim self defense as Rittenhouse was clearly threatening them, who then gets off scot free and cashes in on their own fame.
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Old 25th November 2021, 07:47 AM   #2791
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Trump says Kyle Rittenhouse visited him in Mar-a-Lago after trial
Certainly does contradict his previous claims that he supports BLM and that he's not associated with white supremacy.

"I am not a racist and support racial justice.... now excuse me while I go visit a known racist con-artist who called neo-nazis fine people, wants to glorify the confederacy (i.e. the people who wanted black people as slaves) and implied mexicans were rapists."
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Old 25th November 2021, 08:06 AM   #2792
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
He seems to have lost a lot of supporters by saying he supports BLM.

Why do you think that is?
BLM said that they didn't want him I guess so going on vacation to see a billionaire is perfectly fine in my book.
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Old 25th November 2021, 11:12 AM   #2793
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An argument I saw well expressed recently:

Kylie Pudgybutt barged into a civil disturbance. Nobody sent for him, nobody deputized him. That made him a combatant, even without his beloved gun -- which he thought was a magic wand, but alas! when he waved it around, nothing changed. He was just another armed insurgent, and a menace to life and limb; as was shown by events.

The Kenosha Kopps egged the sorry little bastard on, and are as criminal as he is. Maybe some of them will answer for it.

Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.
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Old 25th November 2021, 11:34 AM   #2794
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
An argument I saw well expressed recently:
That's not an argument.
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Old 25th November 2021, 12:14 PM   #2795
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
That's not an argument.
Good. You don't have to answer it.
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Old 25th November 2021, 01:56 PM   #2796
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
He was there in Kenosha with others, many others, similarly armed.
They were all "stupid" for being there? Perhaps.

They did have planning and tactical discussions. He specifically gave an interview with Richie McGinniss that indicated this fact.
Ryan Balch was watching his six, until they got separated at the Ultimate minimart.

My mistake.
Like I stated previously - I did not follow this trial closely. Not a valid excuse - but an explanation.
I will revise my statement to be : "Made very poor tactical plans with a military veteran and allowed himself to be separated from him when the you know what hit the fan."

I stand by my other statements (until proven wrong again. )

He did not commit ANY 'murders' (where did you get 3 from, anyway?) -- two men ended up dead, as they attacked him. Those were justifiable homicides, not murders.
You admit this yourself in the very next sentence you uttered -----

I did not state that he committed any murders. I stated quite specifically that he was charged with murder.
I guess this makes us even as to mistakes - so far.


Associated Press issued a story today regarding his future actions.
https://apnews.com/article/kyle-ritt...a0cef6d02fc8f3

Quote:
“He could easily secure a seven-figure book contract,” said Andrew M. Stroth, a former talent agent and an attorney in Chicago with no ties to Rittenhouse. Rittenhouse, he said, “could monetize his brand and potentially make in the millions.”

Just because he is a pariah to many, doesn't mean he is stupid for making bank on his notoriety.

You are correct with your last statement. I guess I value my hide more than I value money. Other people's mileage may vary.

IMHO - he could keep his head and down very easily write his book from a private location. I would suggest that most of his book - if not all - will be written by ghost writers so it is not like he needs to go get stationary from a nearby store everyday.

Quote:
I personally believe he would be better-off taking it easy and quiet.
But, that's just me.
Nobody is waving multi-million-dollar contracts in my face.

We are back to the opinion part again. I think you and I agree on most points - but you are coming down on the side of personal freedoms and screw the consequences. That is a valid opinion and certainly one that is in many people's mindset and that is a very good mindset in many situations. But not all situations.
I just think it would be better for all involved if Rittenhouse would fade into the background for now and get his book done while things cool down. He could pop out next year and promote his book and still have huge sales - IMHO.
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Old 25th November 2021, 03:03 PM   #2797
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
An argument I saw well expressed recently:

Kylie Pudgybutt barged into a civil disturbance. Nobody sent for him, nobody deputized him. That made him a combatant, even without his beloved gun -- which he thought was a magic wand, but alas! when he waved it around, nothing changed. He was just another armed insurgent, and a menace to life and limb; as was shown by events.

The Kenosha Kopps egged the sorry little bastard on, and are as criminal as he is. Maybe some of them will answer for it.
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.

I think why you're perhaps misleading yourself is because you don't understand the legal doctrine of self-defence as written in Wisconsin law (and the way it's written in Wisconsin law is pretty standard compared with how it's written into law in any state of the US or a whole host of other adversarial-law nation states).

All Rittenhouse's defence team had to do was convince the court that he had even the slightest reason ("reason" in the legal sense) for believing that in each of the three occasions, he was in very serious danger, and that a proportionate response was to fire his weapon as he did. So, in effect, it was the job of the prosecution to convince the court that Rittenhouse had to have been lying when he claimed to have been acting in (proportionate) self-defence on each of those three occasions.

The evidence and testimony showed clearly, right from way before the trial started, that it was going to be more-or-less impossible for the prosecution to convince the court that Rittenhouse did not have a basis in reason for believing he needed to act in self-defence. As someone else just said: had Rittenhouse fallen apart under cross, and had said something like "I didn't care that they weren't immediately threatening me - I had to put them on the ground with my gun long before things ever reached that point!", then the court probably would have (rightfully) dismissed his "self-defence" defence.

But that didn't happen. Rittenhouse proved to be unimpeachable in court. Was he a stupid, irresponsible, impetuous, provocative child who went there looking to be the big-guy Sheriff? Absolutely. Would any of the three men in question have made to attack Rittenhouse if he hadn't been carrying his gun? Very possibly not. Might he be a morally-reprehensible person who is likely to cause more serious trouble in the future? Perhaps. But none of that actually matters/mattered when it came down to the narrow legal test of whether Rittenhouse had even the slightest right in law to fire his rifle in self-defence. The court (rightly) decided that he did.

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Old 25th November 2021, 03:13 PM   #2798
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I don't know everything his future holds...but I think his odds of getting laid just went way, way up.
It may well have done, but in that case he would also be advised to remember to not stick it in the crazy, and you can bet that “I killed some people” is attractive to the crazy.
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Old 25th November 2021, 03:55 PM   #2799
LondonJohn
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
It may well have done, but in that case he would also be advised to remember to not stick it in the crazy, and you can bet that “I killed some people” is attractive to the crazy.

Ugh that reminds me of a notorious murder case in the UK in the early 90s - the horrific murder of Rachel Nickell on Wimbledon Common in front of her young child.

The police convinced themselves (provably erroneously, as it turned out) that a local oddball (and he was major-league oddball) Colin Stagg was the murderer. But they had scant evidence, and certainly nowhere near enough to charge him. So they set about devising what they (extremely stupidly) thought was a genius plan, in conjunction with a now-disgraced (and thoroughly out-of-work) criminal profiler.

They knew Stagg - who was socially inept around women - had used "lonely hearts" newspaper adverts in the past. So they set a female police officer up to play the role of a lonely heart who responded to a Stagg advert. She told him (as part of the plan) that she knew who he was and what people were saying he'd done, but that not only did she not mind about that, she actually found it something of a turn-on.

The end-game was to extract a usable confession from Stagg that he'd murdered Nickell. The climax to the plan was a first face-to-face meeting between the two in Hyde Park (or maybe St James' Park nearby?) with the female stooge wearing a wire. She was primed to tell him that she'd really want to have sex with him if he told her it was true that he'd murdered Nickell. Stagg didn't respond how the police had hoped - ie he didn't confess to the murder - but nor did he flat-out deny it either. With hindsight this was for the (obvious) reason that he wanted to keep the woman interested in him, and he'd come to the (equally obvious) conclusion that any firm denial of the murder on his part might have served as an immediate - and probably permanent - passion-killer.

Anyhow.... the police and prosecutors decided that the weak responses and non-denials from Stagg were good enough to go to court with. Fortunately, the trial judge saw the police's tactics for exactly what they were: nothing more than a honeytrap, and completely out of order. He more-or-less immediately threw the case out of court and directed an acquittal.


(The post-script is that many years - some 15 years - later, advances in DNA typing proved that the real murderer of Nickell was a serial rapist and murderer who was already serving life for other murders by that stage. The police could and should have linked him to the Nickell case, but they'd become far too easily fixated on Stagg, and were riddled with confirmation bias and tunnel vision.)
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Old 27th November 2021, 04:04 PM   #2800
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An article published in 'The Atlantic' arguing that universities are trying to force a consensus on their students that the jury in the Rittenhouse trial 'gave the wrong verdict'...


Quote:
At universities, the recent acquittal of Kyle Rittenhouse should be an opportunity to study a divisive case that sparked complex debates about issues as varied as self-defense laws, guns, race, riots, the rights of defendants, prosecutorial missteps, media bias, and more. If administrators were doing their jobs, faculty and students would freely air a wide variety of viewpoints and have opportunities to better understand one another’s diverse perspectives. Instead, many administrators are preemptively imposing their preferred narratives.


https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...nhouse/620809/
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