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Tags Amanda Knox , Italy cases , Meredith Kercher , murder cases , Raffaele Sollecito

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Old 12th February 2021, 11:44 AM   #361
TomG
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Italy is certainly taking their sweet time responding to the ECHR's ruling on Knox's calunnia conviction. It's possible it could be due to Covid or they could be intentionally ignoring it due to having their nose out of joint. This is what comes of the ECHR having no teeth to enforce their rulings.
Annulment of the calunnia would certainly give us closure on the case. A more emphatic closure than even H/Z offered since he upheld the calunnia. I don't think that M/B offered satisfactory closure in their judgement. I regard it as more of a buffet where the lions share went to the defence while the prosecution and colpevolisti were thrown enough morsels for them to whimper over and gnaw at for eternity. All this does is keep wounds festering instead of healing. The continual anti-knox sentiment on YouTube is a perfect example.

Annulment of the calunnia would mean that the case would wither and die as it should do. It doesn't appear that Italy has the moral integrity to grasp the nettle just yet.

Hoots
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Old 9th March 2021, 12:01 AM   #362
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Kinda sad Italy can't find a way to admit what happened and apologize, all for the better.

Trust and just is on hard times.
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Old 12th March 2021, 08:48 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by Guss View Post
Kinda sad Italy can't find a way to admit what happened and apologize, all for the better.

Trust and just is on hard times.
They'll never do that. I just wonder when, of if, they'll finally get around to following the rest of the ECHR's rulings. They've paid Knox, now they need to "make her whole" by dealing with the unfair defamation judgment.
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Old 15th March 2021, 12:38 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
They'll never do that. I just wonder when, of if, they'll finally get around to following the rest of the ECHR's rulings. They've paid Knox, now they need to "make her whole" by dealing with the unfair defamation judgment.
It's always been clear to me that M/B acquitted K&S primarily due to the reasons stated in 8.1; however, it may have been likely that Italy knew that they'd lose the ECHR case on human rights and domestic laws violations and wanted to pre-empt it. If M/B had went with Nencini and endorsed the guilty verdict it might have huge repercussions later, that would involve a VERY public release from prison as a result of the significant human rights violations. It stands to reason that Italy might have wanted to avoid that public humiliation at all costs.

Hoots
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Old 16th March 2021, 02:28 PM   #365
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La nuova vita di Rudy Guede

Just for the record:
I think this is the first online publication ever, related to "la morte di Meredith Kercher" (as they put it), without any mention of "Amanda Knox"...
Scacchi, Caritas e Bistrot, la nuova vita di Rudy Guede
Quote:
Viterbo - Sua l'idea di un torneo al caffè del teatro in via Cavour - Inizierà il 27 marzo

Scacchi, Caritas e Bistrot, la nuova vita di Rudy Guede

di Daniele Camilli

Viterbo – Bistrot del teatro da una parte e studenti dall’altra. In mezzo una scacchiera. Parola d’ordine, rinascita. Di un posto simbolo della città, e quella di un uomo, Rudy Guede, che ha ideato e organizzato un torneo di scacchi al Bistrot di Vanessa Sansone e Giuseppe Berardino. In Via Cavour a Viterbo. Scacchi, Caritas e Bistrot, la nuova vita di Rudy Hermann Guede.

La partecipazione al torneo di scacchi è gratuita, il numero di telefono è sulla locandina appesa alla porta del Bistrot e sui social della Rete degli studenti medi e per iscriversi c’è tempo fino al 24 marzo. Il 27 inizia. Tutti i fine settimana le partite. Sabato e domenica. Tra i partecipanti anche Guede, e chi vorrà sfidarlo.

Rudy Guede, lontano, oggi, da quanto accade a Perugia nel 2007, con la morte di Meredith Kercher. Lontano da Mammagialla da cui è uscito nel dicembre del 2019. Poco dopo, l’inizio della pandemia. Ancora pochi mesi e il conto con il passato sarà definitivamente chiuso. Lontano anche da quella revisione del processo che ha sfiorato un paio di anni fa. Perché per molti Rudy Guede è innocente, ma ha scontato la sua pena. Adesso chiede solo di essere quello che è. Un trentenne che fa volontariato alla Caritas, è tra i responsabili della biblioteca del Centro per gli studi criminologici di piazza della Rocca e tra le due e le cinque del pomeriggio passa al Bistrot a fare due chiacchiere con Giuseppe, Vanessa e chi trova in galleria, la sala principale del caffè di via Cavour. Lì si ferma a leggere, prendere il caffè, fare iscritti al torneo e parlare di filosofia. Argomento preferito, la scuola di Francoforte. Adorno, Horkheimer, Marcuse, Löwenthal, Fromm, Habermas e altri.

Una laurea triennale in storia e cooperazione internazionale, Guede è in attesa di discutere la tesi della magistrale in società e ambiente. Entrambi i corsi, con l’università degli studi di Roma 3.

La mattina, dalle 9 alle 2, Guede è in Caritas. Volontariato. Consegne la mattina e mensa all’ora di pranzo. Tra le due e le 5 è invece, di solito, al Bistrot. Spesso gioca a scacchi. Spesso per conto suo. A ridosso della vetrata e buttando ogni tanto lo sguardo a palco e platea lì sotto. Chi lo conosce, o riconosce, appena ci parla, mascherina in volto, è il primo a lasciare indietro il passato e a valutare soltanto la persona che si trova di fronte.

Dalle chiacchiere all’idea. E alla fine l’organizzazione del torneo di scacchi. Una passione che Rudy Guede ha scoperto da piccolo, in Costa d’Avorio, dove il padre se l’è portato via in Italia quando aveva 5 anni.

A sposare l’iniziativa del torneo, il Bistrot e la rete degli studenti medi che si sono fatti subito parte attiva, mettendo nome e cognome, su torneo e rispettiva locandina.

“L’iniziativa – raccontano Vanessa Sansone e Giuseppe Berardino – nasce da quando al Bistrot è comparsa la splendida scacchiera di Harry Potter che ci è stata donata da un’amica. Era di Fabrizio, marito di Nicoletta Mazzuca che, insieme a sua figlia Emma, hanno fatto al Bistrot e a tutti gli appassionati di scacchi questo regalo”.

La prima mossa, quella che aprirà il torneo, verrà fatta su questa scacchiera di Nicoletta Mazzuca. Un gesto simbolico per ricordare Fabrizio.

“Un mondo – proseguono Sansone e Berardino -, quello degli scacchi, che non conoscevamo. Però l’idea di Rudy e della Rete degli studenti c’è piaciuta e abbiamo messo a disposizione il Bistrot, ovviamente nella massima osservanza delle normative anti Covid”.

Rinascita. “Questo torneo – spiegano infatti Sansone e Berardino – vuole essere un primo passo verso un ritorno alla normalità. Il Bistrot è per sua natura un luogo in cui vivere esperienze culturali a tutto tondo. In questo periodo ogni cosa sembra difficile, ma noi vorremmo iniziare ad abbattere questa barriera dando speranza ai nostri clienti e a noi stessi”.

Daniele Camilli
google translation
Fotogallery: La nuova vita di Rudy Guede
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Old 16th March 2021, 05:26 PM   #366
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Originally Posted by Methos View Post
Just for the record:
I think this is the first online publication ever, related to "la morte di Meredith Kercher" (as they put it), without any mention of "Amanda Knox"...
Scacchi, Caritas e Bistrot, la nuova vita di Rudy Guede


google translation
Fotogallery: La nuova vita di Rudy Guede
I read the translation and it mentioned that "many" still think Rudy is innocent which looks to me like a disguised sideswipe at Amanda. Further although it mentioned a lot about Rudy's life and how it has change for the better, much better! There was no mention of his victim Meredith. Or any indication that Rudy will ever admit to murdering Meredith on his own. When someone is rehabilitated, even a thoroughly disgusting criminal, I generally am pleased but here since Rudy doesn't seem to acknowledge his sole responsibility I have my doubts about his rehabilitation.
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Old 17th March 2021, 12:05 PM   #367
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Here's a link for the remaining guilters to really get their teeth into:

https://www.patreon.com/knoxrobinson
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Old 17th March 2021, 10:37 PM   #368
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As far as I'm concerned, he can sit there and rot.
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Old 21st March 2021, 03:38 AM   #369
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Napoleoni and Zugarini in jail or not

Remember these links from last year indicating jail terms for Napoleoni and Zugarini?

https://www.umbria24.it/cronaca/peru...e-altri-cinque
https://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/202...mento/5934847/

Are both actually in prison or not, or are they free pending an appeal? An Italian pro-guilter said Napoleoni was cleared on appeal. I can't find anything online even in Italian to support it. Any clues?

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Old 21st March 2021, 06:09 PM   #370
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I highly doubt they were cleared as they were only sentenced last September. As we all know, Italian courts do not work this quickly. It is highly unlikely an appeal would have been lodged, accepted, and a new trial to have taken place and concluded in only 6 months.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 21st March 2021 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 22nd March 2021, 11:35 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I highly doubt they were cleared as they were only sentenced last September. As we all know, Italian courts do not work this quickly. It is highly unlikely an appeal would have been lodged, accepted, and a new trial to have taken place and concluded in only 6 months.
I agree with that. I can't find anything online to support the claim that she was cleared. I think the guy was bluffing me, but I thought I'd better check it out first.

Hoots
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Old 22nd March 2021, 03:07 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by TomG View Post
I agree with that. I can't find anything online to support the claim that she was cleared. I think the guy was bluffing me, but I thought I'd better check it out first.

Hoots
Bluffing: blowing hot air out his arse. Something the PGP are quite expert at.
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Old 24th March 2021, 02:40 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Italy is certainly taking their sweet time responding to the ECHR's ruling on Knox's calunnia conviction. It's possible it could be due to Covid or they could be intentionally ignoring it due to having their nose out of joint. This is what comes of the ECHR having no teeth to enforce their rulings.
Just to update readers here on the ECHR - Committee of Ministers (glacially slow) progress (as typical of the cases against Itay) in this case:

Italy has 56 pending leading cases before the Committee of Ministers (CoM). One of these cases is Knox v. Italy.

Of these 56 cases, Knox v. Italy is one of the 15 awaiting an Action Plan or Report from Italy.* Italy did provide a preliminary communication (as denoted by the CoM) to the CoM on 10 January 2020. Italy acknowledged the ECHR judgment in that communication. It paid the Just Satisfaction to Knox as reported 3 January 2020.

The earliest pending leading case awaiting an Action Plan or Report is De Tommaso v. Italy 43395/09 ECHR final judgment date 23 February 2017. The ECHR final judgment date for Knox v. Italy is 24 June 2019 and the CoM has likewise not received an Action Plan or Report. However, the CoM has received an Action Plan from the Italian government for the case Cordella and Others v. Italy 54414/13, final judgment date also 24 June 2019, involving the failure of the Italian government to address the health effects of air pollution from a steel plant.

So onlookers expecting a resolution of Knox v. Italy may need to exercise patience.

As a guide as to what can be expected, one may consider the pending leading case Cafagna v. Italy 26073/13 ECHR final judgment date 12 January 2018. The CoM has received 3 communications from Italy on this case, with the latest an Action Plan or Report received 25 June 2020. This Action Plan or Report states that, as an Individual Measure, Cafagna was acquitted in new proceedings and, as General Measures,

Quote:
The Government draws attention to the fact that the principles affirmed by the Court in this matter have been transposed into national legislation and case law. The Constitutional Court declared the constitutional illegitimacy of s. 630 of the Code of Criminal Procedure “in the part where it does not provide any possibility of revising the judgment or the penal decree of conviction in order to obtain the reopening of the trial which is necessary for the purposes of art. 46 of the Convention to allow compliance with the final judgments of the European Court of Human Rights" (judgment no. 113 of 2011).

The law of June 23, 2017 n. 103 then amended s. 630 of the Code of Criminal Procedure. ....
Google translation

The CoM has not yet finalized its evaluation of Italy's efforts to redress the violations of international law declared by the ECHR in Cafagna v. Italy.


* Of the other 41 cases, the CoM reports that Italy has filed a required Action Plan or Report in 34 cases; in 7 cases, no Action Plan or Report was required.

Sources:

https://hudoc.exec.coe.int/eng#{%22EXECDocumentTypeCollection%22:[%22CEC%22],%22EXECLanguage%22:[%22ENG%22],%22EXECState%22:[%22ITA%22],%22EXECIsClosed%22:[%22False%22],%22EXECType%22:[%22L%22]}

http://hudoc.exec.coe.int/eng?i=004-48795

http://hudoc.exec.coe.int/eng?i=DH-DD(2020)589F

Last edited by Numbers; 24th March 2021 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 24th March 2021, 06:49 PM   #374
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Am I to understand that Cafagna received a new trial and was then acquitted as a result of what the ECHR ruled? If so, this would be good news for Amanda.
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Old 24th March 2021, 07:20 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Am I to understand that Cafagna received a new trial and was then acquitted as a result of what the ECHR ruled? If so, this would be good news for Amanda.
My understanding is that Cafagna requested and was acquitted in a revision trial.

Here's the CoM summary of the Case Description and Status of Execution:

Quote:
Description de l’affaire:

L’affaire concerne la condamnation du requérant en 2005 sur la base de la déposition faite par une personne (C.C.) qui alléguait avoir été agressée par lui, en l’absence d’audition de cette personne au cours des débats.

La Cour a estimé que les juridictions internes, aussi rigoureux qu’ait été leur examen, n’ont pas pu apprécier correctement et équitablement la fiabilité des dépositions de C.C. Elle a jugé que les droits de la défense du requérant ont subi une limitation incompatible avec les exigences d’un procès équitable (Violation de l’article 6 §§ 1 et 3d)).


Etat d’exécution:

Un bilan d’action consolidé a été soums le 25 juin 2020. Il est en cours d’évaluation.

Auparavant les autorités avaient soumis un bilan d’action le 6 novembre 2018 suivi les 14 janvier 2019 et 28 novembre 2019 par des informations supplémentaires concernant les mesures individuelles. Les informations fournies peuvent être résumées comme suit.

En ce qui concerne les mesures individuelles la satisfaction équitable a été payée et la demande du requérant de réouverture de la procédure pénale a été accepté. Dans le cadre de cette nouvelle procédure devant la Cour d’appel de Lecce le requérant a été acquitté et sa condamnation a été annulée.

En ce qui concerne les mesures générales les autorités attirent l’attention sur le fait que les principes affirmés par la Cour européenne dans cet arrêt ont été transposés dans la législation et la jurisprudence nationale.


La loi du 23 juin 2017 n. 103 a modifié l’art. 630 du code de procédure pénale (« Renouvellement de l’instruction lors des débats ») qui statue : « en cas d’appel du parquet contre le jugement d’acquittement pour des raisons concernant l’appréciation des preuves orales, le juge dispose le renouvellement de l’instruction ». Ces changements ont été positivement accueilli par les juridictions nationales.

Des programmes de formation spécialisés en la matière ont été mis en place par l’École Supérieure de la Magistrature et adressés aux magistrats. Des documents d’information et approfondissement sont également disponibles sur le site internet de l’École et accessibles gratuitement aux magistrats.


En outre, cet arrêt a fait l'objet de larges mesures de publication et de diffusion, aussi bien sur le site internet institutionnel du Ministère de la Justice, qu'auprès les autorités concernées. L’arrêt a été inséré dans la base de données de la Cour de Cassation et a été également communiqué au Tribunal de Trani, à la Cour d’Appel et au Parquet Général de Bari.
And here is the relevant part of a letter dated 28 November 2019 that Italy sent to the CoM (that the CoM deemed a "communication" or "additional information on individual measures"):

Quote:
En se référant au plan d'action présenté par le Gouvernement italien le 6 novembre 2018 et concernant l'affaire en objet, j'ai l'honneur de vous adresser l'anêt de la Cour d'appel de Lecce du 8 mars 2019, déposé au greffe le 22 mai 2019 ( annexe 1 ), qui, en accueillant la
demande de révision présenté par M. Cafagna, a révoqué le jugement de condamnation du Tribunal de Trani rendu le 11 avril 2005 à son encontre et l'a acquitté pour ne pas avoir commis les faits.
Quote:
Referring to the action plan presented by the Italian Government on November 6, 2018 and concerning the case in question, I have the honor to send you the judgment of the Court of Appeal of Lecce of March 8, 2019, filed with the registry on May 22, 2019 (Attachment 1), which, by welcoming the request for a revision trial presented by Mr. Cafagna, revoked the April 11, 2005 judgment of conviction that the Court of Trani had handed down against him and acquitted him for not having committed the acts {of the crime}.
Google translation with my help.

Sources:

http://hudoc.exec.coe.int/eng?i=004-48796

http://hudoc.exec.coe.int/eng?i=DH-DD(2019)1464F

Last edited by Numbers; 24th March 2021 at 08:59 PM.
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Old 24th March 2021, 10:14 PM   #376
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Excellent. Mr. Cafagna requested a revision trial and was acquitted. Since the statements Amanda made were illegally obtained without a lawyer present, it seems to me that it's a slam dunk case that she would be acquitted.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 24th March 2021 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 25th March 2021, 03:17 PM   #377
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I read Amanda is expecting a baby , life moves on for most of us.
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Old 25th March 2021, 03:44 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by Briars View Post
I read Amanda is expecting a baby , life moves on for most of us.
Most of us don't have an unjust conviction with a large monetary judgment hanging over our heads.
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Old 4th April 2021, 07:41 AM   #379
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were there fingerprints on the knife handle?

Amanda's DNA profile was found on the handle of Raffaele's knife, but was the knife checked specifically for fingerprints?
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Old 4th April 2021, 09:08 AM   #380
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Amanda YouTube interview

Here's another interview with Amanda. She talks alone without interruption for around an hour describing her prison ordeal. Some of it is heartbreaking. The last half hour or so is a Q and A. She does refer to the fact that she is still fighting the legal aspects of the calunnia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCHoN5gOQkk

Hoots
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Old 4th April 2021, 07:36 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
Amanda's DNA profile was found on the handle of Raffaele's knife, but was the knife checked specifically for fingerprints?
This is the testimony of Giuseppe Privitera, the fingerprint expert. He does not mention testing the knife at all.

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.co...%27s_Testimony
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Old 4th April 2021, 07:36 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by TomG View Post
Here's another interview with Amanda. She talks alone without interruption for around an hour describing her prison ordeal. Some of it is heartbreaking. The last half hour or so is a Q and A. She does refer to the fact that she is still fighting the legal aspects of the calunnia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCHoN5gOQkk

Hoots
Thanks, Tom. I'll listen to this when I have more time.
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Old 8th April 2021, 01:52 PM   #383
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At about one hour into the interview, Amanda says that she is continuing to fight to have her calunnia conviction overturned. I'm glad to hear that.
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Old 8th April 2021, 09:53 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Most of us don't have an unjust conviction with a large monetary judgment hanging over our heads.

I haven't followed the details of Amanda's post-acquittal life, but her name itself should always serve as a reminder/warning to never talk to the cops without a lawyer, especially in a foreign country where you don't speak the language. Parents should be whispering to their kids on the way to a semester abroad (if we ever get there again): "Remember Amanda Knox." I can't help but think of how her life would be different if she had just gone home, which would have been a perfectly reasonable thing to do after her roommate was murdered.
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Old 8th April 2021, 11:09 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I haven't followed the details of Amanda's post-acquittal life, but her name itself should always serve as a reminder/warning to never talk to the cops without a lawyer, especially in a foreign country where you don't speak the language. Parents should be whispering to their kids on the way to a semester abroad (if we ever get there again): "Remember Amanda Knox." I can't help but think of how her life would be different if she had just gone home, which would have been a perfectly reasonable thing to do after her roommate was murdered.
Really? You think an eye witness and prima facie suspect to a horrendous crime should just be allowed to leave the country presumably because they are American and who cares about the innocent victim in all of this?

"..the f act t hat K NOX was in the house 7 Via della Pergola at the time when young Meredith Kercher was killed constitutes a fact of absolute and indisputable certainty.
Martuscelli,Masi, F avi – Florence Court 10 Feb 2017
"
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Old 9th April 2021, 06:45 AM   #386
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
eye witness
Speaking of eye witnesses, you still haven't explained why Guede wasn't the prosecution's star witness versus Knox/Sollecito during the Hellmann trial. Especially since, as you well know, his own trial process was finished and his sentence finalized. When will you get around to this? Any particular decade?

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
American
Bob never mentioned Knox being American. Try a course in remedial reading.
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Old 9th April 2021, 07:02 AM   #387
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Really? You think an eye witness and prima facie suspect to a horrendous crime should just be allowed to leave the country presumably because they are American and who cares about the innocent victim in all of this?

"..the f act t hat K NOX was in the house 7 Via della Pergola at the time when young Meredith Kercher was killed constitutes a fact of absolute and indisputable certainty.
Martuscelli,Masi, F avi – Florence Court 10 Feb 2017
"
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 0 and rule 12.


The sad truth is that you (still) don't understand how and why your C&P statement came to pass. If you'd like me to give you a hint: perhaps try looking at the "judicial facts" that were finalised by the Italian Supreme Court in Knox's criminal slander conviction*, and then realise that "judicial facts" that have been affirmed by the SC in Italy cannot be changed without revision trials......


* The criminal slander conviction that Italy effectively has no choice but to quash, unless it wants to disregard the remedy required of it by the ECHR. Though frankly, even if Italy stubbornly refuses to do so - and hopes the European Council blinks first, rather than kicking Italy out - the ECHR adjudication has ridden a coach and horses through the validity/fairness of the investigation and trials process in any event, thereby rendering the verdict a shocking fail already.

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Old 9th April 2021, 09:05 AM   #388
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The relevant legal facts of the outcome of Sollecito's appeal for compensation contains the following passages:

Quote:
It appears though our duty to emphasize that the versions of the young man about his movements and those of Knox during the hours when young Kercher was murdered remain completely false even in the light of the reconstruction of the facts provided in the decision issued on 27 March 2015 by the Fifth Penal Section of the Court of Cassation – a reconstruction which, given its definitive status, is the “judicial truth” [“verità processuale”]6 to which this court must adhere.

According to the aforementioned judges, who, although they found Sollecito not guilty of all of the charges ascribed to him, holding his complicity in the murder not proved “beyond a reasonable doubt” (Page 43 of the decision), the murder having been committed with “irrefutable certainty” by Rudy Guede, separately found guilty definitively for having acted “together with other as yet unknown persons”. Many facts connected with the complete reconstruction of the event, exclude that Guede could have acted alone (Page 26 of the cited decision), and at the same time “as for the whereabouts of Amanda Knox, whose presence in the dwelling, site of the murder, is clearly certain in the case, consistent with her admissions, contained also in her hand-written account.” (Page 45 of the decision).

In regard to Sollecito “The picture of the evidence which emerges from the impugned judgment is marked by intrinsic unresolved contradictions...It remains, nonetheless, a strong suspicion that he was actually present in the house at Via della Pergola on the night of the murder, but at a time, however, that cannot be determined. On the other hand, given the certainty of the presence of Knox in that house, it is hardly credible that he was not with her.” (Page 49 of the decision)

If therefore the fact that Knox was in the house 7 Via della Pergola at the time when young Meredith Kercher was killed constitutes a fact of absolute and indisputable certainty; it is evident that the statements made by Sollecito that she was with him all evening on 1 November 2007 are false, and that one cannot believe his statements that he couldn't remember what he and Knox were doing from the evening of 1 November 2007 until the following morning.
Florence 22 January 2017 Presiding Judge Dr. Silvia Martuscelli Reporting Judge Dr. Paola MASI Filed with Registry [the clerk of court] 10 February 2017 Antonio Bossa Clerk

It is noted that Knox does not dare claim compensation similarly as she would get the same bum's rush.
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Old 9th April 2021, 09:51 AM   #389
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Under international and Italian constitutional law, as decided by the judgments of the Italian Constitutional Court including its judgment number 113 of 2011, the relevant legal position, including the interpretation of legal "facts", must ultimately follow the final judgments of the ECHR.

The ECHR in its 24 June 2019 final judgment in the case Knox v. Italy found, in the summary of the Committee of Ministers, which supervises the execution of judgments of the ECHR:

Quote:
The case concerns the lack of an investigation into allegations of ill-treatment by the police in 2007, during the questioning of the applicant, a young woman of foreign nationality and language, subsequently convicted for malicious accusation in the context of criminal proceedings concerning the murder and rape of her flat mate (violation of Article 3 in its procedural limb).

The case also concerns the restriction on the applicant’s access to legal assistance during her questioning by the police, which the European Court found to have had irretrievably impaired the overall fairness of the proceedings (violation of Art. 6 §§ 1 and 3 c)) and the inadequate assistance provided to the applicant by an interpreter during the police questioning (violation of Art. 6 §§ 1 and 3 e)).
Thus, Italian court statements regarding the calunnia conviction of Knox or the legal "facts" involved in that conviction, or any other Italian court statement contradicting or not acknowledging the ECHR final judgment, including those prior to its date, cannot be viewed as being ultimately valid under international or Italian constitutional law. The failure of the Italian government or courts to timely correct the Italian violations of international and Italian law in the wrongful conviction of Knox for calunnia and of any false legal "facts" derived from that case represents another apparent violation of international law.

In fact, Italy has been slow, compared to other western European democracies, in fulfilling its solemn legal obligations in a number of cases under the European Convention of Human Rights treaty.

The current (9 April 2021) status of Italy's actions to correct the violations of international law found by the ECHR in Knox v. Italy is summarized as follows by the Committee of Ministers:

Quote:
An action plan or report is awaited. The authorities submitted a preliminary communication on 10 January 2020.
Italy did pay the required Just Satisfaction (a token amount awarded by the ECHR in certain cases of violations of rights) as published 3 January 2020 by the Committee of Ministers and as acknowledged in Italy's 10 January 2020 preliminary communication. By means of the preliminary communication and payment of the Just Satisfaction, Italy has acknowledged its acceptance of the ECHR final judgment, while it has to date failed to inform the Committee of Ministers in an Action Plan of the most relevant Individual and General Measures it will take to redress the violations of international law found by the ECHR in its 24 June 2019 final judgment. In fact, Italy has failed to supply an Action Plan (or Report) in an additional 13 pending leading cases, some with final judgments from 2018 or 2017.

Sources:

http://hudoc.exec.coe.int/eng?i=004-52517

http://hudoc.exec.coe.int/eng?i=DH-DD(2020)27F

https://hudoc.exec.coe.int/eng#{%22EXECDocumentTypeCollection%22:[%22CEC%22],%22EXECLanguage%22:[%22ENG%22],%22EXECState%22:[%22ITA%22],%22EXECIsClosed%22:[%22False%22],%22EXECType%22:[%22L%22],%22EXECAPStatus%22:[%221%22]}

Last edited by Numbers; 9th April 2021 at 09:56 AM.
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Old 9th April 2021, 10:11 AM   #390
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It is clear that these judges were determined to find against Sollecito from this quote:

Quote:
Many facts connected with the complete reconstruction of the event, exclude that Guede could have acted alone (Page 26 of the cited decision), and at the same time "as for the whereabouts of Amanda Knox, whose presence in the dwelling, site of the murder, is clearly certain in the case, consistent with her admissions, contained also in her hand-written account. " (Page 45 of the decision).

We know that of the SIX experts who gave testimony, only ONE, that hired by the Kerchers, stated Guede could NOT have acted alone. We know that no evidence of anyone else was found in the room where Kercher was murdered. No one else's DNA, fingerprints, shoe prints, etc. were found on, in, under or around Kercher's body. ONLY that of Guede. Isn't that rather odd that only ONE of the killers would leave any evidence of themselves behind?

What are these "facts" that they refer to that show that Guede "could not have acted alone"? The prosecution claimed this, but proved none. They claimed that Kercher had to have been forcibly held down, yet no DNA was left on her body or clothing by anyone holding her down with their hands which surely would have left their DNA. Where are their bloody shoe or footprints around her body? Her throat was cut leaving a large amount of blood on the floor around her upper torso. If she was being held down, how could those holding her down not be kneeling in her blood and getting their hands bloody? How could they not leave bloody fingerprints? Guede couldn't avoid it yet somehow...somehow...these alleged others managed to. One has to ignore logic and common sense to believe that others participated in Kercher's murder and leave nothing of themselves behind in evidence.

As for Knox's "admission" to being there, these yahoos completely ignore that she also clearly states she has no real memory of it, her account cannot be counted on to be real, and the purpose of her writing it was to clarify that her statements were written under duress by the police including being smacked, called a liar and told she had amnesia when she denied being there.

Of course Amanda never bothered to file for compensation. Why would she when she knows it would be a complete and expensive waste of time? But I note your use of "she does not dare" as if she is somehow 'afraid' of doing so. Very Vixenish.
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Old 9th April 2021, 10:16 AM   #391
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Quote:
In fact, Italy has failed to supply an Action Plan (or Report) in an additional 13 pending leading cases, some with final judgments from 2018 or 2017.
In failing to do so, Italy is violating its treaty with the EU.
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Old 9th April 2021, 10:21 AM   #392
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Really? You think an eye witness and prima facie suspect to a horrendous crime should just be allowed to leave the country presumably because they are American and who cares about the innocent victim in all of this?
....
She was an eyewitness to nothing except the deficiencies of the Italian legal system, and was free to go wherever she wanted before she was arrested.
Edited by Agatha:  Removed breach of rule 12

Last edited by Agatha; 12th April 2021 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 9th April 2021, 12:12 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Really? You think an eye witness and prima facie suspect to a horrendous crime should just be allowed to leave the country presumably because they are American and who cares about the innocent victim in all of this?
You know who did leave the country? Guede. Can you guess why?
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Old 9th April 2021, 02:24 PM   #394
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Originally Posted by TomG View Post
Here's another interview with Amanda. She talks alone without interruption for around an hour describing her prison ordeal. Some of it is heartbreaking. The last half hour or so is a Q and A. She does refer to the fact that she is still fighting the legal aspects of the calunnia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCHoN5gOQkk

Thanks, that was really interesting.
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Old 9th April 2021, 02:52 PM   #395
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It may be useful to remind ourselves of the content of Italy's preliminary communication to the Committee of Ministers on Knox v. Italy.

In particular, that communication indicates that the text of the ECHR judgment was translated into Italian (from the original French) and distributed to the relevant judiciary. This, I suggest, is an indication of preparation for a potential revision trial and possibly changes to Italian law.

Quote:
Rappresentanza permanente d'Italia presso il Consiglio d'Europa

Affaire KNOX c. Italie
(Requête n° 76577/13)
Arrêt du 24/01/2019
Définitif le 24/06/2019

Communication du Gouvernement

Résumé introductif de l'affaire

L'affaire concerne une procédure portant sur la condamnation d' Amanda Knox pour dénonciation calomnieuse. Lors d'un interrogatoire qui s'est déroulé le 6 novembre 2007, Mme Knox avait accusé le gérant d'un pub d' avoir tué sa colocataire. Ce dernier fut innocenté par la suite, et Mme Knox fut condamnée à trois ans de réclusion pour dénonciation calomnieuse.

Dans son arrêt du 24 janvier 2019, devenu définitif le 24 juin 2019, la Cour européenne des droits de l'homme a dit, à l'unanimité, qu' il y avait eu : Violation du volet procédural (enquête) de l'article 3 (interdiction des traitements inhumains ou dégradants) de la Convention européenne des droits de l'homme.

La Cour juge en particulier que Mme Knox n'a pas bénéficié d'une enquête pouvant éclaircir les faits et les responsabilités éventuelles concernant son allégation selon laquelle elle aurait subi des traitements dégradants, le 6 novembre 2007, alors qu'elle se trouvait entièrement sous le contrôle des forces de l'ordre. En effet, malgré ses plaintes réitérées, les traitements dénoncés par Mme Knox n'ont fait l'objet d'aucune enquête.

Violation de l'article 6 §§ 1 et 3 c) de la Convention (droit à l'assistance d'un avocat).
La Cour juge que le Gouvernement italien n'est pas parvenu à démontrer que la restriction de l'accès de Mme Knox à un avocat, lors de l' audition du 6 novembre 2007 à 5 h 45 – alors qu'elle faisait l'objet d'une accusation en matière pénale - n'a pas porté une atteinte irrémédiable à l'équité du procès dans son ensemble.

Violation de l'article 6 §§ 1 et 3 e) de la Convention (droit à l'assistance d'un interprète).
La Cour juge que les autorités ont omis d' apprécier le comportement de l'interprète (qui s'était attribuée un rôle de médiatrice et qui avait acquis une attitude maternelle envers Mme Knox pendant que cette dernière formulait sa version des faits), d'évaluer si ses fonctions d'interprète avaient été exercées selon les garanties prévues par l'article 6 §§ l et 3 e) de la Convention, et de considérer si ce comportement avait eu un impact sur l'issue de la
procédure pénale entamée à l'encontre de Mme Knox. Pour la Cour, ce défaut initial a eu des répercussions sur d'autres droits et a compromis l' équité de la procédure dans son ensemble.


Mesures individuelles

a. Satisfaction équitable

Pour cette affaire, les sommes allouées pour dommage moral (10.400 euros) et pour frais et dépens (8 .000 euros) ont été payées le 29 novembre 2019 avec un peu de retard, imputable non seulement à la documentation qui était incomplète pour procéder au paiement, mais également à la procédure de paiement par le biais de la Banque d'Italie s'agissant d'un paiement hors de l'U.M.E.


Mesures générales

Publication, diffusion, traduction

L'arrêt de la Cour a été traduit et a fait l'objet de larges mesures de publication et de diffusion le 11 février 2019, non seulement par l'envoi de ce dernier aux juridictions impliquées mais aussi par la publication sur la banque de données de la Cour de Cassation Italgiure WEB ainsi que sur le site web du Ministère de la Justice.


Permanent Mission of Italy to the Council of Europe

Case of Knox v. Italy
(Application No. 76577/13)
Judgment 24/01/2019
Final 24/06/2019

Communication from the Government

Introductory summary of the case

The case concerns proceedings relating to the conviction of Amanda Knox for malicious false denunciation {calunnia}. During an interrogation which took place on November 6, 2007, Ms Knox had accused the manager of a pub of killing her roommate. The manager was cleared subsequently, and Ms Knox was sentenced to three years' imprisonment for calunnia.

In its judgment of 24 January 2019, which became final on 24 June 2019, the European Court of Human Rights declared, unanimously, that there had been{that is, Italy had committed a}: Violation of the procedural aspect (investigation) of Article 3 (prohibition of inhuman or degrading treatment) of the European Convention of Human Rights.

The Court held in particular that Ms Knox had not benefited from an investigation which could clarify the facts and possible responsibilities for her allegation that she allegedly suffered degrading treatment on 6 November 2007, when she was entirely under the control of the police. Indeed, despite her repeated complaints, the treatments complained of by Ms Knox were not investigated.

Violation of Article 6 §§ 1 and 3 c) of the Convention (right to the assistance of a lawyer). The Court found that the Italian Government had failed to demonstrate that the restriction of Ms Knox's access to a lawyer, at the hearing on November 6, 2007 at 5:45 am – when she was the subject of a criminal charge – had not irremediably infringed {prejudiced} the fairness of the trial as a whole.

Violation of Article 6 §§ 1 and 3 e) of the Convention (right to the assistance of an interpreter). The Court held that the authorities had failed to assess the conduct of the interpreter (who had assumed the role of mediator and who had acquired a maternal attitude towards Ms Knox while the latter was formulating her version of the facts), to assess whether her duties had been exercised in accordance with the guarantees provided for in Article 6 §§ 1 and 3 e) of the Convention, and to consider whether this behavior had an impact on the outcome of the criminal proceedings initiated against Ms Knox. For the Court, this initial defect had consequences that had repercussions on other rights and compromised the fairness of the proceedings as a whole.

Individual measures

a. Just satisfaction

For this case, the sums awarded for non-pecuniary damage (10,400 euros) and for costs and expenses (8,000 euros) were paid on November 29, 2019 with a little delay, attributable not only to incomplete documentation required to process the payment, but also to the procedure required by the Bank of Italy for a payment outside of the European Monetary Union.

General measures

Translation, Publication, and Dissemination

The judgment of the Court has been translated and has been the subject of wide-ranging publication and dissemination measures [as of] February 11, 2019, not only by sending the latter to the jurisdictions involved but also by the publication on the data bank of the Court of Cassation Italgiure WEB as well as on the website of the Ministry of Justice.
Translation by Google with my help.

Source: https://hudoc.exec.coe.int/eng#{%22EXECIdentifier%22:[%22DH-DD(2020)27F%22]}

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Old 10th April 2021, 12:31 AM   #396
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Under international and Italian constitutional law, as decided by the judgments of the Italian Constitutional Court including its judgment number 113 of 2011, the relevant legal position, including the interpretation of legal "facts", must ultimately follow the final judgments of the ECHR.

The ECHR in its 24 June 2019 final judgment in the case Knox v. Italy found, in the summary of the Committee of Ministers, which supervises the execution of judgments of the ECHR:



Thus, Italian court statements regarding the calunnia conviction of Knox or the legal "facts" involved in that conviction, or any other Italian court statement contradicting or not acknowledging the ECHR final judgment, including those prior to its date, cannot be viewed as being ultimately valid under international or Italian constitutional law. The failure of the Italian government or courts to timely correct the Italian violations of international and Italian law in the wrongful conviction of Knox for calunnia and of any false legal "facts" derived from that case represents another apparent violation of international law.

In fact, Italy has been slow, compared to other western European democracies, in fulfilling its solemn legal obligations in a number of cases under the European Convention of Human Rights treaty.

The current (9 April 2021) status of Italy's actions to correct the violations of international law found by the ECHR in Knox v. Italy is summarized as follows by the Committee of Ministers:



Italy did pay the required Just Satisfaction (a token amount awarded by the ECHR in certain cases of violations of rights) as published 3 January 2020 by the Committee of Ministers and as acknowledged in Italy's 10 January 2020 preliminary communication. By means of the preliminary communication and payment of the Just Satisfaction, Italy has acknowledged its acceptance of the ECHR final judgment, while it has to date failed to inform the Committee of Ministers in an Action Plan of the most relevant Individual and General Measures it will take to redress the violations of international law found by the ECHR in its 24 June 2019 final judgment. In fact, Italy has failed to supply an Action Plan (or Report) in an additional 13 pending leading cases, some with final judgments from 2018 or 2017.

Sources:

http://hudoc.exec.coe.int/eng?i=004-52517

http://hudoc.exec.coe.int/eng?i=DH-DD(2020)27F

https://hudoc.exec.coe.int/eng#{%22EXECDocumentTypeCollection%22:[%22CEC%22],%22EXECLanguage%22:[%22ENG%22],%22EXECState%22:[%22ITA%22],%22EXECIsClosed%22:[%22False%22],%22EXECType%22:[%22L%22],%22EXECAPStatus%22:[%221%22]}
The ECHR is not a criminal court of law. It has no powers over member states. It can only make recommendations about 'human rights'. The UK is a country that doesn't believe in this stuff.
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Old 10th April 2021, 02:46 AM   #397
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The ECHR is not a criminal court of law. It has no powers over member states. It can only make recommendations about 'human rights'. The UK is a country that doesn't believe in this stuff.
The UK doesn't believe in human rights!? Certainly you have somehow misspoke.
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Old 10th April 2021, 04:55 AM   #398
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The ECHR is not a criminal court of law. It has no powers over member states. It can only make recommendations about 'human rights'. The UK is a country that doesn't believe in this stuff.

After all this time..... you still don't know (or understand?) what the ECHR does?

No, the ECHR is not a supranational court. It cannot superimpose legal judgements upon signatory states.

But

It can - and does (and did in the Knox matter) - request remedies from signatory states. In this instance, it has requested that Italy revises Knox's case without using any evidence which is linked to the abuses of Knox's human rights. In practice, therefore, the ECHR is requesting that Italy revises Knox's case with the removal of her 1.45am and 5.45am statements, since these were obtained via a breach of Knox's human rights. And in turn, this means the ECHR is more-or-less requesting that Italy acquits Knox without retrial.

Now, Italy is perfectly constitutionally able to disregard the ECHR request. But such a denial could bring with it certain unwelcome ramifications. It could result in Italy being removed as a signatory state of the European Convention on Human Rights, and it could result in Italy being "disinvited" from the Council of Europe.

So Italy will need to decide what it prefers. Though frankly - as I said in my previous post - even if it chooses to deny the ECHR request, the ECHR adjudication itself has already made a mockery of Knox's criminal slander conviction, since it's now officially self-evident that the entire basis for the conviction was evidence obtained in breach of Knox's human rights.


(I mean, many of us here knew this a very long time ago, and have written about it many times. The ECHR adjudication has validated our opinions entirely, for precisely the same reasons. It's just that a small number of people with agendas and preconceptions apparently needed to believe that Knox just had to have been evil in some way, right?! And it seems like the ECHR adjudication went in one ear and out the other for many - if not all - of those people...)

Last edited by LondonJohn; 10th April 2021 at 04:56 AM.
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Old 10th April 2021, 08:02 AM   #399
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Ah yes,

horse apples
fool's gold
Rocky Mountain oysters
long pig
horned toad
shooting star
virtual reality
judicial fact

I love these phrases where the initial adjective is really a synonym for "not."
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Old 10th April 2021, 08:02 AM   #400
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post

It can - and does (and did in the Knox matter) - request remedies from signatory states. In this instance, it has requested that Italy revises Knox's case without using any evidence which is linked to the abuses of Knox's human rights. In practice, therefore, the ECHR is requesting that Italy revises Knox's case with the removal of her 1.45am and 5.45am statements, since these were obtained via a breach of Knox's human rights. And in turn, this means the ECHR is more-or-less requesting that Italy acquits Knox without retrial.

Now, Italy is perfectly constitutionally able to disregard the ECHR request. But such a denial could bring with it certain unwelcome ramifications. It could result in Italy being removed as a signatory state of the European Convention on Human Rights, and it could result in Italy being "disinvited" from the Council of Europe.

So Italy will need to decide what it prefers. Though frankly - as I said in my previous post - even if it chooses to deny the ECHR request, the ECHR adjudication itself has already made a mockery of Knox's criminal slander conviction, since it's now officially self-evident that the entire basis for the conviction was evidence obtained in breach of Knox's human rights.

Thank you, LondonJohn, this synopsis is very helpful. I'm wondering if you - or Numbers - knows...has Italy ever refused to comply with any of the (many) ECHR requests against it re: other cases? If they never move to acquit Knox without trial - would this be a 1st?
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