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Old 3rd February 2021, 08:54 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by erwinl View Post
Uhm

I thought you didn't want to work with us anymore?
That was the entire purpose of the Brexit wasn't it?

And now you want EU civilians to help you in the UK politics in order to get rid of one of the UK's political parties?
Appears it was - we apparently wanted to be simply told by the EU what goods we can move about within our own borders! Didn't want any of that hassle of having any say in it!
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Old 3rd February 2021, 08:58 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
What made you think that wishing to be self governing meant not wanting to work with you, or to be friends ?


No, it really wasn't the entire purpose of Brexit.

The point of Brexit is political independence.

Why do you think everyone from former MP Gisela Stewart to former SDP leader Lord David Owen and Swedish born television presenter Ulrika Jonsson were onboard with it ?
Er, you do know that Michael Gove has written to the EU begging for TWO more years of grace re Brexit trading, letter to appear in the FT tomorrow.

The same Michael Gove who with his government refused EU offers to extend the transition period?

The cheek of it. He is pointing the finger of blame at the EU.
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Old 3rd February 2021, 10:52 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
If Brexiteers are not racist, why did Nigel Farage appeal to them with photoshopped pictures of long lines of refuges fleeing war, terrorism and famine? What was with the posters threatening "76,000,000 Turks are about to join the EU" (the hidden message = "all these Muslims").
That's not why I voted.
That's not why any leave voter I know voted.

We voted to govern ourselves.

And if you don't like the way the Tory party is doing things ? I hear you, I don't particularly like the way they're doing things either, but they're in power because nobody else would get us out.

You reap what you sow.

Your side didn't want to take ownership of the situation, so power went instead to the Boris's and the Jacob Rees Moggs, we tried to warn you. But you were too busy screaming racist at us.

Nigel Farage wasn't even part of the official leave campaign btw.

Gisela Stewart (German born former MP) was, Douglas Carswell was (and quit UKIP shortly after the referendum), David Owen was, and he quit Labour in the early 80's because of Labour's policy of leaving the EEC!

So when you get someone like Dr David Owen (member of the House of Lords) coming out in favour of leaving an organisation, when he was one of the strongest young voices for remain in 1975, people like me sat up and listened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5-2_Oo83a4

It's much easier for you to kid yourself that it's all about racism.

But it's not.

It's about democracy, and that is why you repeatedly failed and failed and failed some more.

Don't say you weren't warned.
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Old 3rd February 2021, 11:57 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
Archie, the Dunning Kruger scale is a scale of confidence and experience.
You have much confidence in your statements about Brexiteers, but not much experience of us at all.

You are prejudiced, blinded by hate and I've seen you resort to straw man arguments as well.

I do not pretend to be the font of all knowledge, but I studied the EU website, I studied laws and rules of the organisation, I made an effort to understand what it was I was looking at, and even at the ballot box, I paused and thought it over some more.

Do not pre judge people.
If you do, you become guilty of the same prejudice you accuse them of.
blah blah blah.

It's not prejudice to say people are doing what they are clearly doing. Its denialism when you think they aren't.

You don't think I have experience of more than half the people in this country?
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Old 3rd February 2021, 11:58 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
The value of our exports to the rest of the world went up even further, despite tariff and non tariff barriers.
Did you factor in EU trade agreements in that?
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Old 3rd February 2021, 12:02 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
It's not prejudice to say people are doing what they are clearly doing. Its denialism when you think they aren't.
It is prejudice to pre judge people call them all racist and assume you know what they're thinking.

It's you who is in denial.

Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
You don't think I have experience of more than half the people in this country?
Going by your posts so far, definitely not.

Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Did you factor in EU trade agreements in that?
Agreements we could independently mirror, then negotiate an upgrade that EU members couldn't ?

Didn't think of that, did you ?

Justin Trudeau for one, wants a better free trade agreement with us than CETA.
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Old 3rd February 2021, 12:03 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
Now let me explain something:
Now let me change the topic you mean?
Quote:
The UK voted to leave.
Parliament voted to honour the referendum and triggered Article 50, thus confirming that the referendum wasn't merely "advisory" as bad losers had tried to make out.
It was advisory. Whether the government chose to follow the advice or not doesn't change that. Jesus!

Quote:
Then there was an election which the Tories won with their biggest number of votes since 1992, but because Labour had started to support leaving, the Tories fell short of a majority.
So?

Quote:
Then there was Labour's Keir Starmer trying to push for a second referendum.

Then there were the delays of 2019.
Then there was another election and this time the Tories got even more votes and an outright majority, with constituencies like Bolsover falling to the Tories.

I'd never imagined in my life that Dennis Skinner's seat would turn blue, but it did, all because there was no credible alternative in order to get out of the EU.
Hang on... Skinner was anti EU. And voted with the Tories. And he was about 140 years old.

Quote:
What will it take for you to just let go of the past and accept this situation, and work with us so we can get rid of the Tories ?
Who is this 'us'? Most Brexiteers are Tories. And those who voted for Brexit enabled this Tory government.

How about YOU start opposing the Tories rather than rimming them?
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Old 3rd February 2021, 12:07 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
.


Agreements we could independently mirror, then negotiate an upgrade that EU members couldn't ?

Didn't think of that, did you ?

Justin Trudeau for one, wants a better free trade agreement with us than CETA.
Boris Johnson wants better trade agreements than we had under the EU. He not only wanted that he promised that.

We have been able to sign new agreements for a year.

Not all Agreements we had have been rolled over. We have lost the benefits of EU membership. We can no longer provide services to the EU. We have yet to sign a better trade deal than we had.

When will we be better off financially?
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Old 3rd February 2021, 12:09 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
Douglas Carswell was
Seriously? He's one of your 'good guys'??

He's a ******* loon

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a7318461.html
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Old 3rd February 2021, 12:09 PM   #130
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At the time of the referendum, three quarters of Labour constituencies were leave constituencies, your prejudice is amazing.

Dennis Skinner voted with the country, not the Tories.
The aye lobby and the nay lobby aren't party lobbies, they're voting stations for MPs.

The referendum was not merely advisory and sulking about it shows just how emotional and irrational your position is. It's no wonder you lost.

You weren't convincing enough then and you're not convincing enough now.

Your arguments on this subject are an abysmal rehash of the pre referendum arguments.

Instead of coming up with any constructive way forwards you're trying to find the reverse gear.

If you want rid of the Tories, you're going to have to find forward.
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Old 3rd February 2021, 12:12 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
It is prejudice to pre judge people call them all racist and assume you know what they're thinking.

It's you who is in denial.

Going by your posts so far, definitely not.
Prejudging would mean judging before they have acted. The Brexiteers have acted. We saw what happened before and after the vote. We saw the campaign. We saw what happened to immigrants and minorities in the wake of the vote.

Quote:
Agreements we could independently mirror, then negotiate an upgrade that EU members couldn't ?
But we can't and haven't. Why would any country give the UK a better deal than they give the EU?

Quote:
Didn't think of that, did you ?
You're a genius. Just like Farage and Carswell and Wetherspoon and all you other great thinkers. You will all go down in history!!!

Quote:
Justin Trudeau for one, wants a better free trade agreement with us than CETA.
Better for him. Yes.
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Old 3rd February 2021, 12:13 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
Boris Johnson wants better trade agreements than we had under the EU. He not only wanted that he promised that.

We have been able to sign new agreements for a year.

Not all Agreements we had have been rolled over. We have lost the benefits of EU membership. We can no longer provide services to the EU. We have yet to sign a better trade deal than we had.

When will we be better off financially?
1) New agreements are being negotiated.

2) Some agreements should not have been rolled over btw, I do not want free trade with Morocco until they stop oppressing the Sahrawis of Western Sahara, get rid of the "sand berm" and clear up the minefields.

3) I voted leave for democracies sake, not the economy. When will we be better off financially ? Dunno, given the Covid crisis.
I voted to be better off socially and democratically.
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Old 3rd February 2021, 12:15 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Prejudging would mean judging before they have acted. The Brexiteers have acted.
Most Brexiteers aren't public politicians but ordinary people with ordinary lives.
And you are prejudging them.

And I never said Carswell was "a good guy". Did I ? You're prejudging me now strawman boy.
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Old 3rd February 2021, 12:18 PM   #134
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[quote=Airfix;13383525]At the time of the referendum, three quarters of Labour constituencies were leave constituencies, your prejudice is amazing. [quote]

Yesterday bananas were 80p a kilo. Are we just throwing non sequiturs around or did you have a point?

Quote:
Dennis Skinner voted with the country, not the Tories.
The aye lobby and the nay lobby aren't party lobbies, they're voting stations for MPs.
Check Hansard on that one. He voted with the government.

Quote:
The referendum was not merely advisory and sulking about it shows just how emotional and irrational your position is. It's no wonder you lost.
Check the legislation. It was absolutely advisory and lying about shows that you are a liar.

Quote:
You weren't convincing enough then and you're not convincing enough now.
Yep sense never trumps racism and bigotry. Sadly.

Quote:
Your arguments on this subject are an abysmal rehash of the pre referendum arguments.
in which racists and bigots chose to send the foreigners home regardless of the damage that would be done and that we are now seeing happen.

Quote:
Instead of coming up with any constructive way forwards you're trying to find the reverse gear.
You put Boris in charge. how about YOU find a constructive way forward?

Quote:
If you want rid of the Tories, you're going to have to find forward.
There are more idiots like you who are happy to see far right Etonian loons like Boris in charge than there are genuinely progressive people in the UK. The way forward is for the UK to break up and let the little englander loons have their own country. But they won't let that happen because they are little englander loons. Until then how about YOU do something useful? You wanted it...go make it work. So far it's a **** up. And you look rather stupid.
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Old 3rd February 2021, 12:19 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
1) New agreements are being negotiated.

2) Some agreements should not have been rolled over btw, I do not want free trade with Morocco until they stop oppressing the Sahrawis of Western Sahara, get rid of the "sand berm" and clear up the minefields.

3) I voted leave for democracies sake, not the economy. When will we be better off financially ? Dunno, given the Covid crisis.
I voted to be better off socially and democratically.
When will be better off socially and democratically then? Because the only changes I see are for the worse.
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Old 3rd February 2021, 12:21 PM   #136
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[quote=Airfix;13383530]Most Brexiteers aren't public politicians but ordinary people with ordinary lives.
And you are prejudging them. [quote]

Who said anything about public politicians?

Quote:
And I never said Carswell was "a good guy". Did I ? You're prejudging me now strawman boy.
You listed him in your rogues gallery of people who supported Brexit. I didn't think you did so because he's a bona fide moon howling nutcase.... maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you think having someone with the intellect of a recently stepped in dog turd on your side IS a positive? It's probably a step up from many who voted for Brexit I admit.
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Old 3rd February 2021, 12:24 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Yesterday bananas were 80p a kilo. Are we just throwing non sequiturs around or did you have a point?
Yes, the point is that Labour's 2019 position on Brexit cost it 59 seats.

Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Check Hansard on that one. He voted with the government.
He voted as he did in every vote on the matter throughout his career.
Doesn't matter how the government voted, he was consistent.

Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Check the legislation. It was absolutely advisory
Check the leaflet sent to every household in the country which stated "the government will implement what you decide", therefore NOT merely advisory.
AND YOU are lying.

Then the government triggered article 50 confirming that it was not merely advisory.

Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Yep sense never trumps racism and bigotry. Sadly.
Quote:
Bigot, noun, a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic towards a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
in which racists and bigots chose to send the foreigners home regardless of the damage that would be done and that we are now seeing happen.
Your posts are the bigoted ones, and you're also a staunch advocate of double standards in immigration favouring a system that puts nationality above aptitude.
Ergo, your arguments are also, racist.
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Old 3rd February 2021, 12:44 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Had sympathy for him until the tried to smuggle them in via Northern Ireland part. He's not someone caught out by the rules, he's actively trying to circumvent them.
And people did not expect Bee Smuggling to be a growth industry post brexit. That shows where the ecconomy can really start to boom after brexit.
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Old 3rd February 2021, 01:28 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
Yes, the point is that Labour's 2019 position on Brexit cost it 59 seats.
citation needed

Quote:
He voted as he did in every vote on the matter throughout his career.
Doesn't matter how the government voted, he was consistent.
he was pro brexit and lost his seat. were the voters too thick to know this or didn't they care? how does that fit your narrative?

Quote:
Check the leaflet sent to every household in the country which stated "the government will implement what you decide", therefore NOT merely advisory.
AND YOU are lying.
It was still legally advisory. That the government decided to implement it was neither here nor there. So you are lying. I don't even think it's important.

Quote:
Then the government triggered article 50 confirming that it was not merely advisory.
Confirming that they chose to implement it.

Quote:
Your posts are the bigoted ones, and you're also a staunch advocate of double standards in immigration favouring a system that puts nationality above aptitude.
No I'm not actually. I'm in favour of pretty much open borders. The EU system is closer to that than the right wing Tory system you prefer where everyone is treated like sub human scum instead of just the the non-EU people.

Quote:
Ergo, your arguments are also, racist.
Yeah. No. I was going to say good try but it wasn't very good and just 'try' sounds *******.
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Old 3rd February 2021, 02:16 PM   #140
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The warnings were there Archie.
Caroline Flint, Stephen Kinnock and others warned this could happen.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48694223
And if you look at the 59 seats which swapped, they were mostly (possibly all) Brexit seats.

The referendum was morally binding, all your talk about "advisory" is guff.
Morally, it was impossible to get out of.

If you're in favour of open borders then you cannot support the protectionism of the EU, it's tariffs and non tariff barriers and also it's immigration hypocrisy of free movement for some nationalities with discrimination against others.

I have an African friend, his name is Daliso, he has to pay over £1k every time his visa is up for renewal.
I would put the price down to whatever it costs to employ a civil servant for 5 minutes to stamp the paperwork.

I don't have a problem with foreigners coming here, but the same system should apply to all immigrants, whether it's free movement, or points based visas.

And at least with points based visas, you judge people by their talents rather than their passports.
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Old 3rd February 2021, 02:34 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
The warnings were there Archie.
Caroline Flint, Stephen Kinnock and others warned this could happen.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48694223
And if you look at the 59 seats which swapped, they were mostly (possibly all) Brexit seats.
Except Skinners who was pro Brexit? Want to try again?

Quote:
The referendum was morally binding, all your talk about "advisory" is guff.
Morally, it was impossible to get out of.
Hang on let me look up 'morally binding' in my legal dictionary.... let me look up 'moral' in my Tory dictionary.

Quote:
If you're in favour of open borders then you cannot support the protectionism of the EU, it's tariffs and non tariff barriers and also it's immigration hypocrisy of free movement for some nationalities with discrimination against others.
non-EU immigration policy is a matter for each member state. So I am glad that the EU designates free movement for the states it controls and oppose the ridiculous immigration system that the Tories you put in power impose on non-EU immigrants.

My solution is to bring non-Eu immigrants UP to the level of EU immigrants, you voted to bring EU residents down to level of non-EU immigrants. Well done you non racist non xenophobe you

Quote:
I have an African friend, his name is Daliso, he has to pay over £1k every time his visa is up for renewal.
I would put the price down to whatever it costs to employ a civil servant for 5 minutes to stamp the paperwork.
But you put in power people who will make it £2k. Nice work.

Quote:
I don't have a problem with foreigners coming here, but the same system should apply to all immigrants, whether it's free movement, or points based visas.

And at least with points based visas, you judge people by their talents rather than their passports.
No you don't. You judge people by random criteria that have nothing to do with their talents or the needs of employers and end up with doctors driving taxis.
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Old 3rd February 2021, 02:42 PM   #142
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1) Dennis Skinner is pro Brexit, as is Caroline Flint, but you miss the glaringly obvious issue of the party manifesto, which in 2017 was pro Brexit and 2019 wasn't.
2) I am not a Tory.
3) The EU imposes an immigration policy on each member state that voters have no choice about, unless their country leaves. It invariably results in discrimination against people from the rest of the world.
That policy judges people by their passport, rather than their skills and is in practice a racist system.
4) Evidence that they will put it up to £2k ?
5) Evidence that there'll be doctors driving taxis rather than doctors, doing doctory stuff, you know, like saving lives ?

Ever worried that you might be a bit bigoted in your attitudes ?
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Old 3rd February 2021, 02:47 PM   #143
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Brexit was entirely a strategy to keep the Tory party together.
It was taken over by a bunch of criminals who saw an opportunity to rob the country to increase their own offshore tax haven funds.

There is not a single redeeming feature to any of it.
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Old 3rd February 2021, 02:55 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
1) Dennis Skinner is pro Brexit, as is Caroline Flint, but you miss the glaringly obvious issue of the party manifesto, which in 2017 was pro Brexit and 2019 wasn't.
And Brexiteers are too stupid to know if their MP is pro-Brexit or not?

Quote:
2) I am not a Tory.
You just voted to give them power

Quote:
3) The EU imposes an immigration policy on each member state that voters have no choice about, unless their country leaves. It invariably results in discrimination against people from the rest of the world.
Simply factually incorrect. The EU imposes that you can't deny access to EU citizens without reason, the rest of the policy is up to the county to decide. A government of not-***** could decide to be open to other countries too

Quote:
That policy judges people by their passport, rather than their skills and is in practice a racist system.
Nope. The policy says you can't judge people by their EU passport. What you do with other people is up to that country.

Quote:
4) Evidence that they will put it up to £2k ?
Visa fees for immigrants have been going up at a crazy rate of late and the rules and regulations are making it more and more difficult for anyone to come to the UK. Since Brexit have the rules been relaxed for non-EU immigrants?

Quote:
5) Evidence that there'll be doctors driving taxis rather than doctors, doing doctory stuff, you know, like saving lives ?
https://www.atlanticgroupimmigration.com/news.php?id=47

have you done even basic research on the things you support?

Quote:
Ever worried that you might be a bit bigoted in your attitudes ?
Funnily enough, no. Are you? Do you never think that the tirade of facts counter to your position might suggest you are wrong???
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Old 3rd February 2021, 03:07 PM   #145
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1) It's not a case of whether the MP is pro Brexit is it, it's a case of whether their party is ?
Pointless electing someone if their party is going to betray the constituency.

2) I voted for the Yorkshire Party, in order to save them their deposit.
I live in a Conservative safe seat, it wouldn't have made a difference how I'd voted, the MP's majority went up from around 13,000 to over 20,000 and I don't like the smug pro fox hunting git.

3) If you have dissimilar rules for immigration, with some people judged on points and others being judged on their nationality, you are judging people, by their passport.

4) Not so. https://www.gov.uk/government/public...sed-table/2020 the fees have not gone up.

5) So you haven't any evidence that it would happen here, just an irrational fear based on something that happened in a different country.
One of my mates is an Indian doctor who works at Pinderfields Hospital.

If that kind of nonsense of doctors driving taxis was going to happen here it would have already happened.
I just don't believe that would happen here.

Meanwhile:
Quote:
Bigot, noun, a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic towards a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
That is something I see in your posts.
You are unreasonably prejudiced against and antagonistic towards Brexiteers in your writings.

Some of my best friends are remainers, I get the attraction some have towards the EU, but I have no faith in it's institutions, particularly the Commission.

Look at Von Der Leyen for example, she's a hopeless incompetent with years of experience at failing to do a good job.
She was an atrocious defence minister who had half the Tornado fleet mothballed.

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Old 3rd February 2021, 08:30 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
Technically of course its still possible, you just need to be fishing in waters rated A+ for cleanliness, which of course few British waters are. It really does come across as a case of Boris and co. hearing what they wanted to hear, the equivalent of Trump's 'a lot of people are saying'.

No. If you read the article properly and objectively, you discover that the UK had been led to believe that the EU was going to relax its regulations in this area, but now the EU has apparently decided that for some reason it's not going to do so any time soon.

And even setting that matter aside, it's incorrect (and rather hysterical) to claim that the UK is now "banned" (or any similar description) from exporting these types of products to the EU - it's just that, for the moment at least, the UK producers will need to treat the shellfish in purification tanks within the UK, prior to exporting them to the EU. You (and The Don) must also have missed the bit in the article which mentions that the UK does currently operate these sorts of purification tanks - so in fact it can export some quantities of these sorts of shellfish to the EU right now. It's just that the producers will now have to invest in further purification capacity if they wish to export to the EU in higher volumes.

I wonder what's happened to the chaotic miles and miles of backlogged lorries and trucks rendering roads into Dover completely impassable and causing all that fresh produce to rot? (I bet plenty of people in this parish were rubbing their hands with glee at the thought of many weeks - or even months - of total gridlock, eh...?)
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Old 3rd February 2021, 08:42 PM   #147
LondonJohn
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
1) Dennis Skinner is pro Brexit, as is Caroline Flint, but you miss the glaringly obvious issue of the party manifesto, which in 2017 was pro Brexit and 2019 wasn't.
2) I am not a Tory.
3) The EU imposes an immigration policy on each member state that voters have no choice about, unless their country leaves. It invariably results in discrimination against people from the rest of the world.
That policy judges people by their passport, rather than their skills and is in practice a racist system.
4) Evidence that they will put it up to £2k ?
5) Evidence that there'll be doctors driving taxis rather than doctors, doing doctory stuff, you know, like saving lives ?

Ever worried that you might be a bit bigoted in your attitudes ?


Oh I think it's already clear that many of the opinions/observations/"analyses" in this forum - on pretty much every topic related to Brexit - are bigotted, blinkered and set-to-maximum-hostility against Brexit. Interesting to observe, but not in any way related to objective, fair debate on the subject.


(And I say that as someone who voted Remain, and who still wishes that we were within the EU - even though I've long believed the EU and (even more so) the European Commission have many structural and institutional failings, and that EU electorates still have a fundamental democratic disconnect between the MEP they vote for (and who represents them in the European Parliament) and the national MP they vote for (and who represents them in their national parliament))
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Old 3rd February 2021, 08:58 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
Erwinl, most FTAs don't cost more than a few million a year to be members of.
The EU was costing £9bn a year whilst the trade with it we did fell year on year from 54% of exports in 2000 to 43% of exports in 2016.
So trade fell 9 percentage points over 16 years. That's not much; can it all be laid on the EU?
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Old 3rd February 2021, 09:20 PM   #149
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We interrupt this thread for a public service announcement:

Archie Gemmill Goal, your mailbox is full so you are incapable of receiving any PMs.

You may now carry on
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Old 4th February 2021, 03:49 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
So trade fell 9 percentage points over 16 years. That's not much; can it all be laid on the EU?
And going by that trend would have continued to fall at the same rate.
As such shackling ourselves to a declining market whilst taking on more and more of it's laws and policies did not and does not make sense.

Besides, many of it's policies are rubbish, take the CAP for example.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ng-agriculture
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Old 4th February 2021, 03:54 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
No. If you read the article properly and objectively, you discover that the UK had been led to believe that the EU was going to relax its regulations in this area, but now the EU has apparently decided that for some reason it's not going to do so any time soon.

And even setting that matter aside, it's incorrect (and rather hysterical) to claim that the UK is now "banned" (or any similar description) from exporting these types of products to the EU - it's just that, for the moment at least, the UK producers will need to treat the shellfish in purification tanks within the UK, prior to exporting them to the EU. You (and The Don) must also have missed the bit in the article which mentions that the UK does currently operate these sorts of purification tanks - so in fact it can export some quantities of these sorts of shellfish to the EU right now. It's just that the producers will now have to invest in further purification capacity if they wish to export to the EU in higher volumes.

I wonder what's happened to the chaotic miles and miles of backlogged lorries and trucks rendering roads into Dover completely impassable and causing all that fresh produce to rot? (I bet plenty of people in this parish were rubbing their hands with glee at the thought of many weeks - or even months - of total gridlock, eh...?)
There are no jams of rotting fish because the boats are all tied up alongside and not going out.

Very little is being sent.

Look at Peterhead on the Marine Traffic app all the deep sea boats are tied up alongside, I have never seen so many in port at once, it's completely full.
Same for my local ports at North Shields, Whitby and Scarborough. boats all tide up alongside.
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Old 4th February 2021, 03:56 AM   #152
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Foster want's Boris the scrap the NI protocol as it can't work and Boris has warned the EU he will 'override' it.

Do you think the Trans-Pacific' people will be watching how we respect treaties we have signed before they think about letting us in to theirs?
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Old 4th February 2021, 04:07 AM   #153
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I note you're not talking about how 75% of the UK fishing fleet previously only got 4% of the quota (source Greenpeace). Those people are better off.

There are also no restrictions against those fishing companies who are complaining, from selling to the home market, so why aren't they seeking to do so ?

And more importantly, it's time we had a national campaign to ban the super trawlers.
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Old 4th February 2021, 04:08 AM   #154
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And the fact that those quota's were sold pre-EU and that the home market is not interested in the local fish is still irrelevant I see.
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Old 4th February 2021, 04:13 AM   #155
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Peterhead boats fishoffshore not coastal or in the North Sea.

I am talking about the big 60 and 70 meter 'ships' not the smaller North Sea and coastal boats.

they are no going out because no one is buying the fish for export at the moment.

They can't get access to Norwegian waters where most of the cod is caught and exports are not happening.

Whitby Lobster boats aren't out and the catch isn't being landed even though they have a purification facility on the fish quay. It's a bit of a tourist attraction, it has viewing windows so you can see all the lobsters etc in their holding tanks before they are packed for Europe.
Exports aren't happening.

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Old 4th February 2021, 04:38 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Peterhead boats fishoffshore not coastal or in the North Sea.

I am talking about the big 60 and 70 meter 'ships' not the smaller North Sea and coastal boats.

they are no going out because no one is buying the fish for export at the moment.

They can't get access to Norwegian waters where most of the cod is caught and exports are not happening.

Whitby Lobster boats aren't out and the catch isn't being landed even though they have a purification facility on the fish quay. It's a bit of a tourist attraction, it has viewing windows so you can see all the lobsters etc in their holding tanks before they are packed for Europe.
Exports aren't happening.
And that's why it's good that the UK is out of the EU. Because of the exports.
Or something.

I have no doubt that the present dearth of exports to the EU will be used as confirmation that the markets were going anyway.
And what Brexiteer would care about the fishermen's income? Or that of any other?
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Old 4th February 2021, 04:46 AM   #157
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75% of fishermen were getting 4% of the quota before, those ones you leave out of your argument because they're better off.

Another thing you leave out is that some fish were exported to the EU for processing and then after processing abroad were exported back to the UK.

Places like the Grimsby ice factory closed for this reason.

Ultimately the situation was not great before.
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Old 4th February 2021, 04:50 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
75% of fishermen were getting 4% of the quota before, those ones you leave out of your argument because they're better off.
Are they better off ?

Will they get a significantly larger proportion of the fish quota, or will the large companies still get 90%+ ?

If they catch fish they cannot sell because they cannot export to the EU and the home market for those types of fish is tiny, will they see any more money in their pockets ?
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Old 4th February 2021, 04:51 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
75% of fishermen were getting 4% of the quota before, those ones you leave out of your argument because they're better off.

Another thing you leave out is that some fish were exported to the EU for processing and then after processing abroad were exported back to the UK.

Places like the Grimsby ice factory closed for this reason.

Ultimately the situation was not great before.
And now there are virtually no exports.
Which is better, how?
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Old 4th February 2021, 05:42 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Brexit was entirely a strategy to keep the Tory party together.
It was taken over by a bunch of criminals who saw an opportunity to rob the country to increase their own offshore tax haven funds.

There is not a single redeeming feature to any of it.
Abso freaking lutely
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