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Old 3rd February 2021, 12:47 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
And he's also had skin cancer and prostate cancer which he was not having any invasive treatments for (after consultation with his medical team) so he may not have long left anyway.


That's the impression that his family are giving, that the last year of his life was just amazing and he was happy to go.
Prostate cancer doesn't have a high mortality rate. Men can live decades with it.

It would have been the pneumonia he had. He was not vaccinated because he had to finish the course of medication for pneumonia first. My friend's father had bacterial pneumonia when he received the Pfizer vaccination. Unfortunately, two weeks later he contracted Covid19, which developed into viral pneumonia from which he died.
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Old 3rd February 2021, 01:04 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Here's a SKY NEWS clip of the 'Clap for Capt. Tom Moore'.




https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1...497503232?s=20



Note how 'Boris' and Carrie cut their applause short, with Keir Starmer outlasting 'Boris' in endurance. What is wrong with Johnson, he seems devoid of any energy or vigour?
Your comment sums up everything that is wrong with the whole 'clapping for' thing.
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Old 3rd February 2021, 01:30 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Prostate cancer doesn't have a high mortality rate. Men can live decades with it.
100 is quite a few decades

Quote:
It would have been the pneumonia he had. He was not vaccinated because he had to finish the course of medication for pneumonia first. My friend's father had bacterial pneumonia when he received the Pfizer vaccination. Unfortunately, two weeks later he contracted Covid19, which developed into viral pneumonia from which he died.
If any policy is decided on what happened to Captain Tom we should all just give up now.

He was 100. He died.
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Old 3rd February 2021, 01:32 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Your comment sums up everything that is wrong with the whole 'clapping for' thing.
Haven't clapped for anyone during the whole shebang and won't be involved in any North Korea-esque state sponsored show of adulation for anything or anyone thank you very much.

You want to support the NHS vote for politicians that support it.

Vote Tory and clap for things to be better? I hope you get COVID tomorrow.
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Old 3rd February 2021, 02:46 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
You want to support the NHS vote for politicians that support it.
Agreed.
And that's why I didn't and couldn't vote Tory at any General Election in the previous decade.

But in order to get rid of them, other parties have to address the general concerns of the public instead of insulting the public.
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Old 3rd February 2021, 02:48 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
But in order to get rid of them, other parties have to address the general concerns of the public instead of insulting the public.
Like too many brown people, too many human rights, too many workers rights and all the other things the Tories stand for. Well done.
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Old 3rd February 2021, 03:25 PM   #87
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You've just won the moronic dishonest post of the year award Archie, well done.
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Old 3rd February 2021, 03:36 PM   #88
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That wasn't in this thread though.
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Old 3rd February 2021, 03:44 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Airfix View Post
You've just won the moronic dishonest post of the year award Archie, well done.
ye think? More than everything you've posted for the last week?
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Old 3rd February 2021, 03:45 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
That wasn't in this thread though.
Keep your transphobia to the allocated thread for it so i don't have to block you please.
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Old 3rd February 2021, 03:49 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
ye think? More than everything you've posted for the last week?
Yes, by a country mile.
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Old 3rd February 2021, 04:46 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
You would think she would have some business acumen, as like, Matthew Hancock, Diana Harding also studied PPE (no, not that PPE, silly!) which she did at Oxford and she also has an MBA (Business studies):
I would have thought a PPE degree would have been useful until I discovered Matt Hancock has one.
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Old 4th February 2021, 02:59 AM   #93
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I think it's interesting that the UK government isn't being drawn on vaccination schedule and plans:

Quote:
More than 10 million people in the UK have now received a first dose of a Covid vaccine, but vaccines minister Nadim Zahawi has declined to give a date by when everyone in the top nine priority groups will receive a jab.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-5...ost_type=share

Instead, he want people who have limited access to information and little or no relevant skills to work things out for themselves.

Quote:
"But you can do the maths. We did 600,000 in a single day - the deployment infrastructure that we've built can do as much vaccines as we get supply, so the limiting factor will be vaccine supply.

"You can see that in the next 10 or so days, we've got to do another almost touching five million and so if we keep that rate up we will very quickly go down the list of the top nine."

Pressed on whether that means it will take another 35 days from 15 February to have jabbed all 31 million people in the first nine cohorts, Mr Zahawi replies: "That assumes the supply, so I don't want to commit to a date without going through it with a very fine-tooth comb with the whole team, because our limiting factor is the supply of vaccines ultimately."
IMO the government would like people to use the most optimistic vaccination figures to work out when they might get the vaccine - so they get a positive headline - but aren't willing to commit to it because they fear (know ?) that second vaccinations and limited supply of vaccines is likely to slow progress considerably in the near future.
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Old 4th February 2021, 03:48 AM   #94
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Metro headline today "We're past the peak,"

Express "10m Jabs... and we're past the peak"

Yelegraph "Sunak concerned scientists are 'moving the goalposts' on lockdown"

Mail "Boris: Now let's give Sir Tom a statue"
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Old 4th February 2021, 03:50 AM   #95
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Sunak thinks the 'scientists' have changed the lockdown justification from protecting the NHS to a 'focus on getting case numbers down' and this will delay opening the economy back up again.
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Old 4th February 2021, 03:51 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I think it's interesting that the UK government isn't being drawn on vaccination schedule and plans:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-5...ost_type=share

Instead, he want people who have limited access to information and little or no relevant skills to work things out for themselves.



IMO the government would like people to use the most optimistic vaccination figures to work out when they might get the vaccine - so they get a positive headline - but aren't willing to commit to it because they fear (know ?) that second vaccinations and limited supply of vaccines is likely to slow progress considerably in the near future.
Valid concerns, I don't know what the answers are, but I suspect as more countries approve vaccines, global demand will outstretch production.
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Old 4th February 2021, 03:53 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Sunak thinks the 'scientists' have changed the lockdown justification from protecting the NHS to a 'focus on getting case numbers down' and this will delay opening the economy back up again.
Well you have to find a way around “we are following the scientific advice” when they won’t play ball and change their advice.
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Old 4th February 2021, 05:16 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
That will be the official reason.

Then there is the real reason.
Go on then: you've said this a couple of times, will you back it up? And, no, I'm not going to do a random Gurgle Walk.
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Old 4th February 2021, 07:56 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King View Post
Go on then: you've said this a couple of times, will you back it up? And, no, I'm not going to do a random Gurgle Walk.
I suggest you ask the poster who made the presumptuous and insulting claim that 'Boris' Johnson is suffering from Long Covid, as he had trouble clapping his hands together for the Capt. Tom Moore tribute. Maybe ask that person for a citation.
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Old 4th February 2021, 08:00 AM   #100
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The next big issue, is prioritising those after the JCVI groups 1-9 have been done.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/h...n-b918561.html

"Over 100 headteachers unite to demand vaccines for school staff"

https://www.polfed.org/news/latest-n...lice-officers/

"I urge the PM to protect police officers"

A check of death rate finds from the ONS;

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...28december2020

Female teacher 21.2
Female nurse 24.5
Female sales/retail 26.9
Female govt admin 27.9
Female factory 33.7
Male teacher 39.2
Male govt admin 72.1
Male nurse 79.1
Male taxi driver 101.4
Male carer 109.9
Male factory 143.2

The police death rate is so low, it is not included by the ONS, but a report here finds

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/u...olice-19722793

"At least 22 police officers and staff have died after contracting coronavirus since the start of the pandemic."

That works out at a death rate of 14.9 per 100,000 (both male and females together). I think the police are going to very annoyed that they could find themselves bottom of the pile for vaccinations.
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Old 4th February 2021, 09:07 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I suggest you ask the poster who made the presumptuous and insulting claim that 'Boris' Johnson is suffering from Long Covid, as he had trouble clapping his hands together for the Capt. Tom Moore tribute. Maybe ask that person for a citation.
No, because I'm asking you about your repeated claims and insinuations that something else is going on.

Johnson may develop "long Covid" or not - we shall see. And I'm not too bothered either way.
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Old 4th February 2021, 09:28 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King View Post
No, because I'm asking you about your repeated claims and insinuations that something else is going on.

Johnson may develop "long Covid" or not - we shall see. And I'm not too bothered either way.
I am most terribly sorry, I don't generally explain jokes. However, since you are so insistent, might I refer you to this webpage.

Do let me know if you still do not 'get it'. Oh, and spare us the faux outrage.
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Old 4th February 2021, 09:48 AM   #103
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It was a question, so you can can the "faux outrage" nonsense: a question is asked, you can either answer it or not; this one has been asked a couple times. No outrage, faux or real, was used in the making of any of my posts on this subject.

Oh, it's a "joke": 'scuse me for not being psychic.


That link is still not answering the question. I know that phrase well enough and it has nothing to do with your continued insistence that Johnson had something other than Covid.


What is so difficult about answering something, rather than playing games like this?
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Old 4th February 2021, 10:12 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King View Post
It was a question, so you can can the "faux outrage" nonsense: a question is asked, you can either answer it or not; this one has been asked a couple times. No outrage, faux or real, was used in the making of any of my posts on this subject.

Oh, it's a "joke": 'scuse me for not being psychic.


That link is still not answering the question. I know that phrase well enough and it has nothing to do with your continued insistence that Johnson had something other than Covid.


What is so difficult about answering something, rather than playing games like this?
I think you'll find those are YOUR words.
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Old 4th February 2021, 11:05 AM   #105
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I only said there have been plenty of rumours that he has Long Covid, which is true. I have no idea whether he actually has Long Covid or not. I can think of no reason why it would be insulting to suggest that he might have, though. He's had covid, and a proportion of people who get that develop Long Covid, and it's not their fault if that happens.
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Old 4th February 2021, 02:31 PM   #106
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How long and how vigorously should hr have clapped?

Is there a minimum level below which you aren't showing enough respect?

Back in the summer when the clapping for the NHS was a thing there was a bloke up our street started knocking on the doors of people that weren't coming out to join in and berating those he thought weren't showing enough enthusiasm.

I never clapped once it's ******* stupid.
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Old 4th February 2021, 02:47 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
How long and how vigorously should hr have clapped?

Is there a minimum level below which you aren't showing enough respect?

Back in the summer when the clapping for the NHS was a thing there was a bloke up our street started knocking on the doors of people that weren't coming out to join in and berating those he thought weren't showing enough enthusiasm.

I never clapped once it's ******* stupid.
A small close of 6 houses here, and nobody did last night. Yes, it's ****** stupid and a form of cultural fascism.
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Old 4th February 2021, 03:00 PM   #108
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I forgot about it and as I was at the back of the house I wouldn't have noticed. There was one evening in the early part of the first lockdown where people were singing and playing "Scotland The Brave" in the street for some reason that now escapes me. There were videos all over twitter. I saw a neighbour's family go out and went out with my flute and played, just for the fun of it. I didn't clap anyone though.
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Old 4th February 2021, 11:19 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
How long and how vigorously should hr have clapped?

Is there a minimum level below which you aren't showing enough respect?

Back in the summer when the clapping for the NHS was a thing there was a bloke up our street started knocking on the doors of people that weren't coming out to join in and berating those he thought weren't showing enough enthusiasm.

I never clapped once it's ******* stupid.
As the country's Prime Minister, Johnson was leading the clapping. Within a very short time he was done and disrespectfully turned his back to go back indoors whilst the rest of the country - on SKY News, anyway - were still clapping for at least another minute.

Imagine if HM the Queen did that on Remembrance Sunday, ignoring the one minute's silence to do her own thing?
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Old 4th February 2021, 11:39 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
I only said there have been plenty of rumours that he has Long Covid, which is true. I have no idea whether he actually has Long Covid or not. I can think of no reason why it would be insulting to suggest that he might have, though. He's had covid, and a proportion of people who get that develop Long Covid, and it's not their fault if that happens.
Boris Johnson's appearance is a disgrace. Standing next to Michel Barnier and Ursula von der Leyen he looked like he had just rolled out of bed in the clothes he had slept him. It was embarrassing to look at the state of him. Last night he looked a complete wreck. OK, so his unruly hair is a carefully contrived part of his 'lovable rogue' image but he should dress properly and appropriately. If he had turned up looking like that at my City office he would have been sent home to smarten up and honour the dress code.

Why is there a complete silence from the BBC, Murdoch/Barclay Brothers press, Kuennsberg, Peston, et al about Johnson's inability to stand up straight , look the world in the eye and string together a coherent sentence? When he informed the nation last March, 'Many of your loved ones will die', he was not joking. He has done zippo to protect the nation's health. His leadership - if you can call it that - is near non-existent and shockingly catastrophic for the country. This bungling buffoon has brought the UK to its knees, with Brexit chaos and >100,000 people dead from Covid19, the worst figures in the world per capita and we are supposed to be an advanced western nation with a health service better than none.

Johnson is a liar, corrupt and totally dishonourable. So why are you pretending to be his press secretary and making out Johnson's dishevelled state is due to Long Covid (claim you!!!) with zero substantiation? Johnson models himself on Donald Trump and some kind of benign Winston Churchill, yet Trump at least always looked very smart and well turned out. If Johnson is as ill as you claim he should jolly well step down and who cares what reason he gives?

This is supposed to be a skeptics forum yet nobody is allowed to state the obvious that 'Boris' Johnson is a bloody disgrace who has let SARS2 rage rampantly through Britain's care homes like fire, can't dress properly and can barely string two words together. This shabby spectacle of a man is the worst prime minister in living memory and has made the UK a laughing stock throughout the world. Yet mention the obvious and people start bleating, oh it's not his fault, he's got long covid...
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Old 5th February 2021, 02:30 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Boris Johnson's appearance is a disgrace. Standing next to Michel Barnier and Ursula von der Leyen he looked like he had just rolled out of bed in the clothes he had slept him. It was embarrassing to look at the state of him. Last night he looked a complete wreck. OK, so his unruly hair is a carefully contrived part of his 'lovable rogue' image but he should dress properly and appropriately. If he had turned up looking like that at my City office he would have been sent home to smarten up and honour the dress code.
It's all part of his image, the hair, the clothes and the attitude.

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Why is there a complete silence from the BBC, Murdoch/Barclay Brothers press, Kuennsberg, Peston, et al about Johnson's inability to stand up straight , look the world in the eye and string together a coherent sentence? When he informed the nation last March, 'Many of your loved ones will die', he was not joking. He has done zippo to protect the nation's health. His leadership - if you can call it that - is near non-existent and shockingly catastrophic for the country. This bungling buffoon has brought the UK to its knees, with Brexit chaos and >100,000 people dead from Covid19, the worst figures in the world per capita and we are supposed to be an advanced western nation with a health service better than none.
The right wing press wouldn't criticise a Conservative Prime Minister unless they made some anti-Brexit comments.

I agree that the UK government's response to Covid has been uniquely bad in all respects. The BBC has reported the facts, what it hasn't done is to publish a series of editorials criticising the government and Prime Minister.

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Johnson is a liar, corrupt and totally dishonourable. So why are you pretending to be his press secretary and making out Johnson's dishevelled state is due to Long Covid (claim you!!!) with zero substantiation? Johnson models himself on Donald Trump and some kind of benign Winston Churchill, yet Trump at least always looked very smart and well turned out. If Johnson is as ill as you claim he should jolly well step down and who cares what reason he gives?
I disagree with the highlighted - President Trump's suits were cut and fit badly.

Boris Johnson is still the most electable Conservative Prime Minister - depressing isn't it

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
This is supposed to be a skeptics forum yet nobody is allowed to state the obvious that 'Boris' Johnson is a bloody disgrace who has let SARS2 rage rampantly through Britain's care homes like fire, can't dress properly and can barely string two words together. This shabby spectacle of a man is the worst prime minister in living memory and has made the UK a laughing stock throughout the world. Yet mention the obvious and people start bleating, oh it's not his fault, he's got long covid...
Has anyone here suggested that things aren't Boris Johnson's fault ?

Is anyone here suggesting giving him a free pass because he's poorly ?
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Old 5th February 2021, 06:01 AM   #112
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I never look at Boris Johnson. I don't have a TV licence so I never see him on the box. People here were commenting that he seemed tired and listless, and I remarked that there were rumours that he had Long Covid. That's it. I didn't claim anything or try to excuse anything. I don't know what all the fuss is about. He could be a chronic alcoholic whose staff have to rouse him from delirium tremens every time he has to go out in public for all I know.

And Trump always looked like he'd rolled out of bed and draped a suit-coloured sack round him too.
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Old 5th February 2021, 06:06 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
His story epitomises everything that is ***** about Britain. A hundred year old man having to debase himself to support things that should be funded by the government made into a hero by the press who seek sensationalise headlines and would rather avoid the real stories and killed by a virus that the government should have done better in combating. and celebrated with a Spitfire flyby just to rub in that we are still obsessed with the past and couldn't give a **** about the future.

If this country EVER stops harking back to WW2 and starts becoming a modern progressive European democracy we MIGHT actually have something worth celebrating.

Until then... colour me unimpressed.
Hear! hear! Nail right on the head.
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Old 5th February 2021, 06:09 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
As the country's Prime Minister, Johnson was leading the clapping. Within a very short time he was done and disrespectfully turned his back to go back indoors whilst the rest of the country - on SKY News, anyway - were still clapping for at least another minute.

Imagine if HM the Queen did that on Remembrance Sunday, ignoring the one minute's silence to do her own thing?
What do you propose? some kind of legislation setting out minimum clapping standards?

Punishment for the first person to stop clapping?

I haven't clapped for anyone since I was last at a concert, what should be my punishment?
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Old 5th February 2021, 06:11 AM   #115
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No 10 says phase 1 vax to be done by “end of spring”
Cabinet office says aim to be done by start of May
No10 says this was issued in error and is withdrawn
It wasn’t
No10 says not issued in error after all is government’s official position
Ten minute U-turn

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...cends-23449104
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Old 5th February 2021, 06:23 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
This is supposed to be a skeptics forum yet nobody is allowed to state the obvious that 'Boris' Johnson is a bloody disgrace who has let SARS2 rage rampantly through Britain's care homes like fire, can't dress properly and can barely string two words together. This shabby spectacle of a man is the worst prime minister in living memory and has made the UK a laughing stock throughout the world. Yet mention the obvious and people start bleating, oh it's not his fault, he's got long covid...
Absolute bollocks.
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Old 5th February 2021, 06:26 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
A small close of 6 houses here, and nobody did last night. Yes, it's ****** stupid and a form of cultural fascism.
We took part in the original clapping, as a community gesture with the rest of our street (some of the residents are frontline workers). That wasn't started by Boris. I was not terribly inclined to take part in something started by our current excuse for a PM, though apparently some did, but I had an online class at that time anyway.
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Old 5th February 2021, 08:23 AM   #118
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You Gov, the polling organisation have tweeted this;

https://twitter.com/YouGov

It makes for frightening reading, with no chance of the vaccine creating herd immunity in many countries. The UK tops the list where people will take the vaccine at 83%, closely followed by China at 82%. Then it drops to Spain at 74%. Various Nordic countries are grouped around the high 60s, Canada is 66%, Germany 61%, USA 53% and France only 45%.
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Old 5th February 2021, 10:01 AM   #119
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I think that's a bit misleading. What people answer in polls like that isn't necessarily what they do when it gets down to the wire. Historically vaccine hesitancy is mostly a feature of situations where the disease is not present in the community. It's easy to be influenced by antivax propaganda, even to the point of telling YouGov that you won't take the vaccine. It's a different matter when everyone else you know is getting it and is pleased to get it, and you're not actually listening to that YouTube video at the time.

Sure, there will be some, and they're loud, but I don't think it will be the percentages in that poll.

(Actually, although free speech and all that, I do think it's irresponsible to commission and publicise polls like that, because that in itself could tend to normalise vaccine hesitancy.)
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Old 5th February 2021, 10:58 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Boris Johnson's appearance is a disgrace. Standing next to Michel Barnier and Ursula von der Leyen he looked like he had just rolled out of bed in the clothes he had slept him. It was embarrassing to look at the state of him. Last night he looked a complete wreck. OK, so his unruly hair is a carefully contrived part of his 'lovable rogue' image but he should dress properly and appropriately. If he had turned up looking like that at my City office he would have been sent home to smarten up and honour the dress code.

Why is there a complete silence from the BBC, Murdoch/Barclay Brothers press, Kuennsberg, Peston, et al about Johnson's inability to stand up straight , look the world in the eye and string together a coherent sentence? When he informed the nation last March, 'Many of your loved ones will die', he was not joking. He has done zippo to protect the nation's health. His leadership - if you can call it that - is near non-existent and shockingly catastrophic for the country. This bungling buffoon has brought the UK to its knees, with Brexit chaos and >100,000 people dead from Covid19, the worst figures in the world per capita and we are supposed to be an advanced western nation with a health service better than none.

Johnson is a liar, corrupt and totally dishonourable. So why are you pretending to be his press secretary and making out Johnson's dishevelled state is due to Long Covid (claim you!!!) with zero substantiation? Johnson models himself on Donald Trump and some kind of benign Winston Churchill, yet Trump at least always looked very smart and well turned out. If Johnson is as ill as you claim he should jolly well step down and who cares what reason he gives?

This is supposed to be a skeptics forum yet nobody is allowed to state the obvious that 'Boris' Johnson is a bloody disgrace who has let SARS2 rage rampantly through Britain's care homes like fire, can't dress properly and can barely string two words together. This shabby spectacle of a man is the worst prime minister in living memory and has made the UK a laughing stock throughout the world. Yet mention the obvious and people start bleating, oh it's not his fault, he's got long covid...
I don't watch much television, so I wouldn't be able to comment on his sartorial sense, nor his current ability to speak, I seem to remember he has always had a bit of a stuttery pattern of speech . His hair has always been a bit of a mess. I am not sure being smartly dressed is a good marker for being a good leader. People do like the superficial, a criticism often made of Labour leaders (Foot, Kinnock, Corbyn) is their scruffiness.

It may be with social distancing he has no one to do his hair, certainly it would be unacceptable for him to have his hair cut by anyone other than his spouse. His wife and he will be doing far more house work etc. than I suspect is normal for a prime minister (other than perhaps Mrs T?), are dry cleaners open to clean and press his suits?

He has a young baby, perhaps it all those disturbed nights! Perhaps he is not only running the country but being made to get up half the night to deal with the babe? his offspring must be teething? The real message should be the country should insist he takes paternity leave!
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