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Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 8th June 2021, 10:15 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
You ever notice something about Right? They seem to think "Leaders" should never be "Experts."

If the Left is going to build a bridge for all their faults they will at least usually a structural engineer with a history building bridges to run the project.

The Right seems almost offended by this idea. If the Right is going to build a bridge sure they'll (usually) hire a structural engineer but the the "Leader" of the project will be some random idiot who thinks its their job to second guess the "Expert" and apply his "home spun common sense" to it.
But they WILL have an expert - they need someone to blame when it all goes tits-up.
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Old 8th June 2021, 10:33 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
Seems to me you lose the moral high ground because you are engaging in the type of behaviour you are criticising him for.
Oh, come on. There are sure a lot of sanctimonious people here standing on that 'moral high ground' who have engaged in mocking Trump themselves. Or are all of you who are telling me how wrong I am going to claim you've never mocked Trump or any other GOP for anything much less for doing what I said deserves mocking (their hypocrisy)? Your halos aren't so shiny.
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Old 8th June 2021, 10:36 AM   #83
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We're just saying that not every characteristics Trump has becomes fair game.

You can't attack Trump for being ugly or dressing bad without attacking people who aren't Trump, who aren't bad people, who don't share those qualities.

Stick to criticizing his actual bad qualities, the qualities that would be bad if anyone had them. Lord knows it's not like you're gonna run out anytime real soon.
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Old 8th June 2021, 10:44 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
We're just saying that not every characteristics Trump has becomes fair game.

You can't attack Trump for being ugly or dressing bad without attacking people who aren't Trump, who aren't bad people, who don't share those qualities.
Of course you can. We've already been through this.
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Old 8th June 2021, 10:47 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
The trouble is that nearly 50% of the US electorate also believe this garbage because that's all they hear


And those idiots are going to be with us no matter who they vote for. I'd rather they were voting for someone who thinks, "I know this is stupid crap, but it's what I have to say to get elected so I can actually do the job", than someone who thinks, "Hey, this is brilliant insight, and I should govern as if it were all perfectly true!"

2020 showed us exactly what happens when the people in government actually believe their ********, and govern in accordance with their ********. A president who said, "China did it!", but who then pushed for masks, social distancing, closing unessential businesses, and the production and distribution of vaccines, would have been far better than Trump, who just stopped after the "China did it!" part.
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Old 8th June 2021, 10:48 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Of course you can. We've already been through this.
The best, best we've got is a childish, schoolyard "Well he started it."
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Old 8th June 2021, 10:50 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The best, best we've got is a childish, schoolyard "Well he started it."
No, that's not true, Joe. That's the one you decided not to ignore, maybe. But that's not all you got.
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Old 8th June 2021, 10:53 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
And those idiots are going to be with us no matter who they vote for. I'd rather they were voting for someone who thinks, "I know this is stupid crap, but it's what I have to say to get elected so I can actually do the job", than someone who thinks, "Hey, this is brilliant insight, and I should govern as if it were all perfectly true!"

2020 showed us exactly what happens when the people in government actually believe their ********, and govern in accordance with their ********. A president who said, "China did it!", but who then pushed for masks, social distancing, closing unessential businesses, and the production and distribution of vaccines would have been far better than Trump, who just stopped after the "China did it!" part.
Well the problem is that otherwise good but milquetoast and naïve people straight up stood by and watched intellectual, argumentative, and media standards get hate ****** to death by the rising Proudly Wrong demographic because they stayed on the "telling stupid and wrong people they are stupid and wrong is mean and you shouldn't do now it let's all jerk ourselves off over how awesome we are at ignoring them" train until the problem was way past the point of no return and we can't make that not true and we still have no way of fixing it anywhere near the table.

We can't go back. We're post-fact now. The fact that one side is provably correct no longer matters and I don't know how you pull a society back from that. It's not getting better, if anything it's getting worst and rate of decay is increasing.

Yeah sure in hindsight we should have listened to the people jumping up and down screaming "THIS IS A PROBLEM! People being wrong is a problem!" and no matter how much times passes I have zero intentions of getting over the fact that we didn't, but that doesn't do us any good now.
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Old 8th June 2021, 11:21 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Well the problem is that otherwise good but milquetoast and naïve people straight up stood by and watched intellectual, argumentative, and media standards get hate ****** to death by the rising Proudly Wrong demographic because they stayed on the "telling stupid and wrong people they are stupid and wrong is mean and you shouldn't do now it let's all jerk ourselves off over how awesome we are at ignoring them" train until the problem was way past the point of no return and we can't make that not true and we still have no way of fixing it anywhere near the table.

We can't go back. We're post-fact now. The fact that one side is provably correct no longer matters and I don't know how you pull a society back from that. It's not getting better, if anything it's getting worst and rate of decay is increasing.

Yeah sure in hindsight we should have listened to the people jumping up and down screaming "THIS IS A PROBLEM! People being wrong is a problem!" and no matter how much times passes I have zero intentions of getting over the fact that we didn't, but that doesn't do us any good now.
I think most people agreed this was a huge problem--what was not done about it that could have been done?
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Old 8th June 2021, 11:21 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
The trouble is that nearly 50% of the US electorate also believe this garbage because that's all they hear
When you've got a federal judge apparently getting his (false) info from Tucker Carlson and then not only repeating it, but using it as a justification for his legal decision on banning CA's assault weapons ban, you know you've got a big problem. See Judge Roger Benitez's ruling.
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Old 8th June 2021, 11:22 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
I think most people agreed this was a huge problem--what was not done about it that could have been done?
Again this is closing the barn door after Trump already shot the horse, but here's a radical ******* idea NOT telling people who were opposed to irrational thinking they were being "mean" for the last 20 years might have been a good start.
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Old 8th June 2021, 11:23 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I didn't read that right the first time.

My apologies.



Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I made the same mistake...

Glad I figured it out before I booked my vacation to europe.
No, that came after the tour.
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Old 8th June 2021, 11:25 AM   #93
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Maybe there's not an objective answer to the question of "what people did and didn't do" because what is meant by "people" is not exactly a quantitative matter.

I will say that there seemed to be plenty of people arguing strenuously against irrational idiots, and while having more would have been great, I'm not convinced that concerns over "being too mean" is where the deficit came from.
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Old 8th June 2021, 11:27 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I made the same mistake...

Glad I figured it out before I booked my vacation to europe.
I took that tour myself in '76. I don't like to think about it, it brings back a lot of painful memories.
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Old 8th June 2021, 11:29 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
It's another excuse for why he lost, claiming he pulled his punches against Biden.
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Old 8th June 2021, 11:32 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
The trouble is that nearly 50% of the US electorate also believe this garbage because that's all they hear
That number is much smaller than 50%.

If it was close to 50% the GOP wouldn't be trying so desperately to rig the system.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 8th June 2021 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 8th June 2021, 11:43 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
That number is much smaller than 50%.

If it was close to 50% the GOP wouldn't be trying so desperately to rig the system.
Well we had a news a week or two ago that said that 20% of Americans agree with aspects of QAnon. Expanding to lesser beliefs sure sounds like it's close to 50%.
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Old 8th June 2021, 11:45 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
We're just saying that not every characteristics Trump has becomes fair game.

You can't attack Trump for being ugly or dressing bad without attacking people who aren't Trump, who aren't bad people, who don't share those qualities.

Stick to criticizing his actual bad qualities, the qualities that would be bad if anyone had them. Lord knows it's not like you're gonna run out anytime real soon.
I'm going to say this one more time: when someone mocks someone for having the same characteristic that they have, then they deserve to be mocked for it, too. I really don't know how that gets changed to "every characteristic(s) Trump has becomes fair game." If anyone mocks someone for having big ears and they have Dumbo ears themselves, then they deserve to be mocked for that too. They bring it on themselves. I'm not saying to mock people for a characteristic when they haven't mocked someone else for that same characteristic.

"You can't attack Trump for being ugly or dressing bad without attacking people who aren't Trump, who aren't bad people, who don't share those qualities."

What? That doesn't even make sense. I can't mock Trump for his looks when he's made all kinds of disparaging remarks about people's looks, especially women's, unless I also mock people who haven't done that?
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Old 8th June 2021, 11:46 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Why would he love that? We use paper up here and it's perfectly safe and efficient.
Are you asking why Putin would love the US voluntarily giving up its status as a major world power? Paper's great, but it's no substitute for most of what computers are used to do.
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Old 8th June 2021, 11:47 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Well we had a news a week or two ago that said that 20% of Americans agree with aspects of QAnon. Expanding to lesser beliefs sure sounds like it's close to 50%.
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Old 8th June 2021, 11:47 AM   #101
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//double post for some reason//
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Old 8th June 2021, 11:48 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I'm going to say this one more time: when someone mocks someone for having the same characteristic that they have, then they deserve to be mocked for it, too.
No. Say it ten more times, it's still wrong.

You and Trump aren't the only two people in this discussion. When you use something as an attack that isn't an actual negative trait, it hurts the people who have that trait who aren't bad. I don't know how to dumb this down any further.

You don't get to turn something that isn't a fault into an attack to get back at someone for being a hypocrite.

If... Roseanne let's say makes fun a fat woman tomorrow, "fat" doesn't magically become an insult you get to use against her unless you want to insult all fat people.
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Old 8th June 2021, 11:54 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
I took that tour myself in '76. I don't like to think about it, it brings back a lot of painful memories.
That was you?
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Old 8th June 2021, 11:58 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
No. Say it ten more times, it's still wrong.

You and Trump aren't the only two people in this discussion. When you use something as an attack that isn't an actual negative trait, it hurts the people who have that trait who aren't bad. I don't know how to dumb this down any further.

You don't get to turn something that isn't a fault into an attack to get back at someone for being a hypocrite.

If... Roseanne let's makes fun a fat woman tomorrow, "fat" doesn't magically become an insult you get to use against her unless you want to insult all fat women.
Whatever, Joe. You see it your way, I see it mine. Frankly, the whole topic is beginning to bore me. It's become nothing more than an "I'm gonna have the last word and prove I'm right and you're wrong" tit for tat. I'm not in the mood today.
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Old 8th June 2021, 11:58 AM   #105
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Trump is convinced he will be reinstated as President this summer. Man is truly delusional.
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Old 8th June 2021, 11:59 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Are you asking why Putin would love the US voluntarily giving up its status as a major world power? Paper's great, but it's no substitute for most of what computers are used to do.
Counting votes by hand wouldn't cost the US its major power status.

That makes no sense whatsoever.
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Old 8th June 2021, 12:00 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
What's confusing about it? If 20% believe the most extreme nonsense, is it hard to think near 50% believe the more run-of-the-mill crap?
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Old 8th June 2021, 12:00 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
That number is much smaller than 50%.

If it was close to 50% the GOP wouldn't be trying so desperately to rig the system.
Some people just love playing Cassandra.
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Old 8th June 2021, 12:22 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Counting votes by hand wouldn't cost the US its major power status.

That makes no sense whatsoever.


He wasn't just talking about votes. He was specifically referencing the pipeline that was held hostage a few weeks ago, and said that using paper accounting instead of computers would have prevented that.
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Old 8th June 2021, 12:24 PM   #110
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In the same sense that a horse and buggy isn't going to have a bad piston problem, sure.

Idiots always mistake "Just doing something in a far less efficient way" for "reducing complexity."
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Old 8th June 2021, 12:28 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
He wasn't just talking about votes. He was specifically referencing the pipeline that was held hostage a few weeks ago, and said that using paper accounting instead of computers would have prevented that.
I'm confused. Who's "he"?
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Old 8th June 2021, 12:29 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
In the same sense that a horse and buggy isn't going to have a bad piston problem, sure.

Idiots always mistake "Just doing something in a far less efficient way" for "reducing complexity."
Except that vote counting by hand in Canada is done with during election night. By morning ALL votes are counted; by noon the new government is in place.

Don't try to argue that the American system is better in this respect.
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Old 8th June 2021, 12:31 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I'm confused. Who's "he"?
Trump.
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Old 8th June 2021, 12:34 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Except that vote counting by hand in Canada is done with during election night. By morning ALL votes are counted; by noon the new government is in place.

Don't try to argue that the American system is better in this respect.
Well, yeah...but you're not dealing with fraudulent ballots and a huge DARK conspiracy network that is hiding suitcases of ballots under tables or fake ballot drop boxes being set out by Facebook!
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Old 8th June 2021, 12:54 PM   #115
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Canada doesn't have to deal with ~40% of their population intentionally trying to break the system.

Again "America's just sucks LOL" is as much the reason why the ~50 of sane people have to do certain things as it is for why the ~50 of insane people do certain things.
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Old 8th June 2021, 01:39 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Canada doesn't have to deal with ~40% of their population intentionally trying to break the system.
Irrelevant. Counting ballots is safe and quick.
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Old 8th June 2021, 01:49 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Irrelevant. Counting ballots is safe and quick.


Are you drinking today? This all started with you responding to an article about Trump. You're the one who made it about ballots and voting. Did you even read the article in the link you were responding to?

Quote:
Former President Donald Trump suggested on Monday that the solution to cyberattacks is to stop using computers.

During an interview on Fox Business, host Stuart Varney asked Trump about how the United States should respond to cyberattacks like the one that recently shut down the Colonial Pipeline.

"The way you stop it is you go back to a much more old-fashioned form of accounting and things," Trump said. "You know, I have a son who is so good with computers. He's a young person and he can make these things sing and when you put everything on internet and on all of these machines -- you never see a piece of paper -- I really think that you have to go back to a different form of accounting, a different form of compiling information."

Trump isn't talking about using paper for voting. He literally wants to stop using computers for all sorts of things.

If you click through to the Raw Story version, there's even more, basically Trump going off on a "kids these days!" rant:

Quote:
According to the former president, "young people... can't walk without computers."
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Old 8th June 2021, 02:05 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Are you drinking today?


Quote:
Trump isn't talking about using paper for voting. He literally wants to stop using computers for all sorts of things.

If you click through to the Raw Story version, there's even more, basically Trump going off on a "kids these days!" rant:
I think the moron thought he was asked about the election "steal". It's all he can think about since November.
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Old 8th June 2021, 03:35 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Of course you can. We've already been through this.
Of course you can. I am not convinced that means you should.
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Old 8th June 2021, 03:49 PM   #120
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Trump made this bonkers claim about cyberattacks during Varney's interview (how much crazy can he pack into one show?):

“They only started in a big fashion recently during the Biden administration, because they don’t respect our country any more and they don’t respect our president.”


It didn't take long to find examples of ransomware attacks that occurred in just the last year of Trump's administration and these certainly aren't all of them. I didn't even look for ones during his first 3 years in office and it doesn't include attacks outside of ransomware. I guess they didn't respect our country or our president then either.

January 2020. Travelex paid $2.3 million in a ransomware attack.

May 2020. New York celebrity law firm Grubman, Shire, Meiselas and Sacks (GSMS) were the victims of ransomware cyberattacker who threatened to publish compromising information on US president Donald Trump, according to reports.

June 2020. The University Of California Pays $1 Million Ransom Following Cyber Attack

September 2020. American healthcare firm Universal Health Systems sustained a ransomware attack that caused affected hospitals to revert to manual backups, divert ambulances, and reschedule surgeries


Oct. 2020. Several U.S. hospitals targeted in ransomware attacks. Mandiant, a cybersecurity firm, identified at least three attacks on Tuesday and one on Wednesday, with patients getting diverted to other hospitals as a result.
"We are experiencing the most significant cybersecurity threat we've ever seen in the United States," Charles Carmakal, Mandiant's senior vice president and chief technology officer told CNN.
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