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Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 24th November 2021, 06:57 PM   #3161
bruto
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Damn. As much vociferous complaint as my suggestion set off, I suspect some of you suddenly reflected upon your own tax history.

The funny part is, I never excused him for any potential wrongdoing. I just made the point, that even statistically, there has to be a lot of hypocrisy amongst those pointing fingers at Trump.

The funniest part was Bob implying that Trump is somehow more accountable to pay his taxes than a "regular" person or business. This really drives my point home.
I don't think it's unreasonable for someone who had voluntarily chosen the job of being chief executive of the United States to be held to a somewhat higher standard of conduct than just anyone off the street. He was not exactly thrust unwillingly into it.
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Old 24th November 2021, 07:04 PM   #3162
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I don't think it's unreasonable for someone who had voluntarily chosen the job of being chief executive of the United States to be held to a somewhat higher standard of conduct than just anyone off the street. He was not exactly thrust unwillingly into it.
But, but, but, but........oh, never mind.
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Old 24th November 2021, 07:07 PM   #3163
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I don't think it's unreasonable for someone who had voluntarily chosen the job of being chief executive of the United States to be held to a somewhat higher standard of conduct than just anyone off the street. He was not exactly thrust unwillingly into it.
Making an argument for hypocrisy doesn't exactly refute my assertion of it.
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Old 24th November 2021, 07:40 PM   #3164
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Making an argument for hypocrisy doesn't exactly refute my assertion of it.
1. It wasn't an argument for hypocrisy.
2. Your assertion that it is so, does not make it so.
3. What bruto said is perfectly valid and it does refute your "assertion"
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Old 24th November 2021, 07:48 PM   #3165
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
It would be awesome to see the results of tax audits on the typical person bitching about Trump's taxes. A large portion of those people are no doubt cheating like hell on theirs.
I mean, seriously - there's still kernels of corn in it for Chris'sake!
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Old 24th November 2021, 09:01 PM   #3166
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
1. It wasn't an argument for hypocrisy.
2. Your assertion that it is so, does not make it so.
3. What bruto said is perfectly valid and it does refute your "assertion"
Susheel has arrived to back up bruto's attempted justification of hypocrisy.

This is awesome to witness.
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Old 24th November 2021, 09:52 PM   #3167
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Making an argument for hypocrisy doesn't exactly refute my assertion of it.
That was not an argument for hypocrisy, since I do not believe the hypocrisy you allege is as widespread or as serious as you do. It was an argument about scrutiny and standards. It was an argument for the general principle that those who choose positions of high esteem and moral leadership should actually do something to warrant it.

By which, if I need to slice it finer, I mean that I do not think people who cheat on their taxes should get away with it. Sure, they should be prosecuted. What I do believe is that people who seek positions of high esteem and moral leadership should be expected, by default, not to do these things at all, and their sin is greater if they do.
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Old 24th November 2021, 10:04 PM   #3168
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The idea that the President shouldn't be held to a higher standard than anyone else when it comes to tax collection, an area that he is directly responsible for enforcing, really highlights the level of corruption they're comfortable with
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Old 24th November 2021, 10:20 PM   #3169
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
What I do believe is that people who seek positions of high esteem and moral leadership should be expected, by default, not to do these things at all, and their sin is greater if they do.
What I believe is that if you are violating laws, it is hypocritical to point the finger at others who might be violating such laws.

Again your argument reads like apologism for hypocritical behavior. "It's not as bad if we do it". It's like I made a point, and you and others are doing the heavy lifting to prove it.

This was entirely predictable, given the audience. And comical.
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Old 24th November 2021, 10:44 PM   #3170
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All President's taxes are audited automatically - so Warp is just trolling as usual with no leg to stand on.

But as President, he went further and blocked the IRS from obeying the law and let Congress see why that auditing process is clearly not working.

So not only did Trump HAVE to get audited, he also criminally abused his power to sabotage said audit.

But I'm sure Warp thinks that everyone here did exactly the same.
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Old 24th November 2021, 10:51 PM   #3171
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
All President's taxes are audited automatically - so Warp is just trolling as usual with no leg to stand on.

But as President, he went further and blocked the IRS from obeying the law and let Congress see why that auditing process is clearly not working.

So not only did Trump HAVE to get audited, he also criminally abused his power to sabotage said audit.

But I'm sure Warp thinks that everyone here did exactly the same.
The funniest part is, you think I am excusing Trump from any wrongdoing he may be guilty of. He should be held accountable for any tax laws he is proven to have broken.

I am just pointing out the hypocrisy of some. And that always strikes a chord with liberals.
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Old 24th November 2021, 10:52 PM   #3172
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
What I believe is that if you are violating laws, it is hypocritical to point the finger at others who might be violating such laws.
I have no argument with this point.

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Again your argument reads like apologism for hypocritical behavior. "It's not as bad if we do it". It's like I made a point, and you and others are doing the heavy lifting to prove it.

This was entirely predictable, given the audience. And comical.
This, on the other hand, reads more like deliberate obtuseness with intent to troll.
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Old 24th November 2021, 10:56 PM   #3173
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
The funniest part is, you think I am excusing Trump from any wrongdoing he may be guilty of. He should be held accountable for any tax laws he is proven to have broken.

I am just pointing out the hypocrisy of some. And that always strikes a chord with liberals.
And we keep on proving that said hypocrisy is only in your head.
Trump isn't only objectively, but also relatively much worse than any example of whataboutisn you keep on trying to give.

But keep on trolling - it's all you can do it seems.
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Old 24th November 2021, 11:02 PM   #3174
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I think everyone is just being confused about why you think the hypothetical hypocrisy of possible unnamed liberals is a great point. i mean, yeah, it's predictable people think it's a stupid thing to say and I guess I don't know why you think predicting that people will think it's stupid is some kind of mind game.

the whole thing is a bit baffling tbh

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Old 24th November 2021, 11:08 PM   #3175
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
And we keep on proving that said hypocrisy is only in your head.
Trump isn't only objectively, but also relatively much worse than any example of whataboutism you keep on trying to give.

But keep on trolling - it's all you can do it seems.
Somehow people think that word erases evidence of hypocrisy and/or the endorsement of it. It doesn't. Neither does the word "trolling", I'm afraid. But hey, if you want to believe that nobody pointing a finger at Trump might be guilty of cheating on their taxes, despite stats that suggest you are very wrong, go right ahead.

The easy response was:

"Sure, a lot of people who condemn Trump over his tax filings probably cheat on their own taxes. That makes them complete hypocrites. But, it doesn't excuse Trump from any tax laws he may have violated."

But, no. Instead we have hand-wringing over the idea that such hypocrisy even exists. And somehow, even if it does, it is acceptable.

I wonder why that is?
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Old 24th November 2021, 11:26 PM   #3176
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Doubling down on the trolling I see.
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Old 24th November 2021, 11:37 PM   #3177
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
What I believe is that if you are violating laws, it is hypocritical to point the finger at others who might be violating such laws.

Again your argument reads like apologism for hypocritical behavior. "It's not as bad if we do it". It's like I made a point, and you and others are doing the heavy lifting to prove it.

This was entirely predictable, given the audience. And comical.
Well, since I'm not violating any laws I guess it's all right if I point a finger. Thanks for that anyway. I didn't say it's not as bad if we do it either. I think that if we do a crime we should be punished for it. But I think a president should not only not do the crime, he should be expected and trusted not to do it, especially in the areas where he is expected to be the enforcer of the law, and disqualified if he does. That is, I think, a higher standard, and one that he, by seeking the position, imposes on himself.
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Old 24th November 2021, 11:45 PM   #3178
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Somehow people think that word erases evidence of hypocrisy and/or the endorsement of it. It doesn't. Neither does the word "trolling", I'm afraid. But hey, if you want to believe that nobody pointing a finger at Trump might be guilty of cheating on their taxes, despite stats that suggest you are very wrong, go right ahead.
First, the stats that have been cited don't actually say that. Second, while it is quite plausible that there are a number of people who match your description, your arguments have been quite poor on that front.

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
The easy response was:

"Sure, a lot of people who condemn Trump over his tax filings probably cheat on their own taxes. That makes them complete hypocrites. But, it doesn't excuse Trump from any tax laws he may have violated."
Easy? If you like unevidenced and highly biased, sure! You've presented no reason to believe that there is any statistically significant percentage of the population that matches your description and your "a lot" is vague. 10 people? 1000 people? 20 million people? Those who condemn Trump for his actions while doing the same things they condemn are certainly hypocrites. You've given no good reason to agree with you that there are a lot, though, in any meaningful way. That's actually a bit sad, for that matter, because it really shouldn't be hard if true.

Going back to the start of this tangent, of course, makes things no better.

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
It would be awesome to see the results of tax audits on the typical person bitching about Trump's taxes. A large portion of those people are no doubt cheating like hell on theirs.
What's "a large portion" in this usage? 0.3%? 100%? The former would actually be quite plausible. Anything that would normally qualify as "a large portion" is likely to be extremely implausible.

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
But, no. Instead we have hand-wringing over the idea that such hypocrisy even exists. And somehow, even if it does, it is acceptable.

I wonder why that is?
Well, when one thoroughly misrepresents what others say, it's not hard to wonder about such things.
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Old 25th November 2021, 12:09 AM   #3179
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I know it's pure hypocrisy on my part, but let's feed the troll less.
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Old 25th November 2021, 12:12 AM   #3180
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
<snip>.
Yeah, sure.

There are 144 million taxpayers in the US, and with 1 out of 30 not even filing, that is 4.8 million people alone. That doesn't include all the people who file and cheat on deductions and such.

Maybe only a few of those people are critical of Trump.

Or, maybe all of them are die-hard Trump supporters.

Or, maybe there are plenty of hypocrites out there.
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Old 25th November 2021, 12:25 AM   #3181
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post

I am just pointing out the hypocrisy of some. And that always strikes a chord with liberals.
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Old 25th November 2021, 12:31 AM   #3182
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I know it's pure hypocrisy on my part, but let's feed the troll less.
I know you're right but I also can't resist giving my pudgy dog another bite of my dinner when I know I shouldn't.
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Old 25th November 2021, 12:46 AM   #3183
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Yeah, sure.

There are 144 million taxpayers in the US, and with 1 out of 30 not even filing, that is 4.8 million people alone. That doesn't include all the people who file and cheat on deductions and such.
Again, you're not actually making much of a defense for your claims here. You look like you're just throwing crap against the wall and little more. As I said, it's quite plausible that the people you describe exist and, I'll add, no one seems to actually be disputing that. What's in dispute there is your claims of, for example, "a large portion" of a particular subset that you've not managed to actually link to any tax wrongdoing at all engaging in tax wrongdoing, based on unevidenced bias. Further, of course, you've refused to take the opportunity to narrow down any predicted range. I'll repeat, though, any percentage that would normally count as large is quite implausible and you've provided no argument or evidence that even remotely counters that.


Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Maybe only a few of those people are critical of Trump.

Or, maybe all of them are die-hard Trump supporters.

Or, maybe there are plenty of hypocrites out there.
Desperation doesn't make your argument more convincing.
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Old 25th November 2021, 01:07 AM   #3184
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
<denying obvious truth via smoke and mirrors>.
I love the effort, but it rings hollow.

You are seemingly trying to ride both sides of the fence in order to soothe your liberal audience. "Yeah, the number of hypocrites in the referenced pool is probably large, but that would depend on what the meaning of the word "is" is."

It's ok, such wordplay has famously been used in the past in an attempt to mask the obvious.

My position on the matter, and the resulting denial and apologism, stands.
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Old 25th November 2021, 01:12 AM   #3185
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I love the effort, but it rings hollow.

You are seemingly trying to ride both sides of the fence in order to soothe your liberal audience. "Yeah, the number of hypocrites in the referenced pool is probably large, but that would depend on what the meaning of the word " is" is."

It's ok, such wordplay has famously been used in the past in an attempt to mask the obvious.

My position on the matter, and the resulting denial and apologism, stands.
Your refusal to actually make an argument that doesn't rely almost exclusively upon unevidenced bias and misrepresentation continues to be noted.

Whatever, though. May all of my fellow citizens of the US have a Happy Thanksgiving.
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Old 25th November 2021, 05:45 AM   #3186
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Donald Trump Would Trounce Joe Biden If Election Was Held Again, Polls Suggest

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trum...uggest-1653256

If valid, everyone should chuckle at these poll results.

Three years is plenty of time for Dems to get their act together, though. And maybe engage in some more well-timed witch hunts. My personal feeling is that by then, Trump will seem significantly less viable to voters. I am amazed he is still on their radar...but that just shows how hard Biden/Harris are currently sucking. You would think "Trump Fatigue" alone would be enough to sink him.
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Old 25th November 2021, 05:48 AM   #3187
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The poll was conducted at the request of Donald Trump's organisation so I'd look at the questions very carefully
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Old 25th November 2021, 05:50 AM   #3188
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
The poll was conducted at the request of Donald Trump's organisation so I'd look at the questions very carefully
Yeah, that's why I am a bit skeptical of the two polls they reference. I should say more than a bit.
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Old 25th November 2021, 06:26 AM   #3189
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Yeah, that's why I am a bit skeptical of the two polls they reference. I should say more than a bit.
I think Mitch McCoverup has a plan to sink Trump after the 2022 Midterms and Rand Paul's Loss in the Senate.
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Old 25th November 2021, 07:17 AM   #3190
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
I think Mitch McCoverup has a plan to sink Trump after the 2022 Midterms and Rand Paul's Loss in the Senate.
After the mid terms is too late. The time to neutralize Trump is before the 2022 primaries begin. If it were in Mitch's power to sink Trump, he would have been able to keep the party in line on January 6th. Hell, he can't even keep Lindsey Graham from going to Florida and ****** Trump's ************ behind the sand hazard on the golf coast.

Dems aren't going to prioritize Kentucky's race for the Senate. They're going to target Wisconsin, Arizona, Pennsylvania, Florida and Georgia. They need to keep the two seats they won in 2020 and hit vulnerable or retiring Rs in 2022.

ETA: I think the Dems should try to hit Missouri too. McCaskill only lost to Hawelly 45 to 51 (ish) and Hawlley and some soft wins in the suburbs of Kansas City and St. Louis. A moderate, law and order Democrat could flip some of those suburban counties blue.

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Old 25th November 2021, 08:02 AM   #3191
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
After the mid terms is too late. The time to neutralize Trump is before the 2022 primaries begin. If it were in Mitch's power to sink Trump, he would have been able to keep the party in line on January 6th. Hell, he can't even keep Lindsey Graham from going to Florida and ****** Trump's ************ behind the sand hazard on the golf coast.

Dems aren't going to prioritize Kentucky's race for the Senate. They're going to target Wisconsin, Arizona, Pennsylvania, Florida and Georgia. They need to keep the two seats they won in 2020 and hit vulnerable or retiring Rs in 2022.

ETA: I think the Dems should try to hit Missouri too. McCaskill only lost to Hawelly 45 to 51 (ish) and Hawlley and some soft wins in the suburbs of Kansas City and St. Louis. A moderate, law and order Democrat could flip some of those suburban counties blue.
Who said anything about Dems causing Rand Paul to lose they haven't got a clue.
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Old 25th November 2021, 08:02 AM   #3192
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The latest from donald trump jr. via Huffington Post.

Quote:
Donald Trump Jr. continued to lean into the right-wing lionization of Kyle Rittenhouse with a doctored image showing his father, former President Donald Trump, presenting the teenage killer with the congressional Medal of Honor. “2024??? Who knows?” Trump Jr. son captioned the meme on his Instagram feed Monday. It’s unclear who first created the picture. HuffPost link
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File Type: jpg Something to look forward to.jpg (80.0 KB, 5 views)
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Old 25th November 2021, 08:29 AM   #3193
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This is another meme trump jr shared, back in March 2019, via Huffington Post:

Quote:
Donald Trump Jr. attacked Democrats Tuesday by posting a Pornhub-style meme of his father online. President Donald Trump’s eldest son shared a doctored image, which purported to show his father as a thumbnail for a porn video as an Instagram story: Huff Post link
I am trying to think of a parallel with another top leader and his family -- I know no US President and family ever behaved this way before -- but is there another top leader somewhere in the world with a son who behaves this way?
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Old 25th November 2021, 08:47 AM   #3194
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Who said anything about Dems causing Rand Paul to lose they haven't got a clue.
FWIW, if the Republican Party were actually a rational, upright, patriotic entity, Rand Paul should be gone, one way or another by then. On the other hand, if the Republican Party were such, Rand Paul should probably have been gone a while ago.

Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
The latest from donald trump jr. via Huffington Post.
I see that Jr's classiness has remained the same.
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Old 25th November 2021, 08:55 AM   #3195
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Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
The idea that the President shouldn't be held to a higher standard than anyone else when it comes to tax collection, an area that he is directly responsible for enforcing, really highlights the level of corruption they're comfortable with
That's like the old, "Priests are no more likely to molest kids than non-priests, and no fair holding them to a higher standard" nonsense.

It's not holding them to a higher standard when they assume a position if higher standard.

The right wing is currently having a tizzy because Kamala Harris bought some fancy French cooking pan. They don't criticize anyone else. Where are the complaints of hypocrisy? Oh wait, that doesn't count, right?
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Old 25th November 2021, 08:58 AM   #3196
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
FWIW, if the Republican Party were actually a rational, upright, patriotic entity, Rand Paul should be gone, one way or another by then. On the other hand, if the Republican Party were such, Rand Paul should probably have been gone a while ago.



I see that Jr's classiness has remained the same.
Yes But the Southern Baptist of Kentucky Don't like being shown they are Hypocrites and Rand Paul can't win without tnem.
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Old 25th November 2021, 09:20 AM   #3197
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Well, since I'm not violating any laws I guess it's all right if I point a finger. Thanks for that anyway. I didn't say it's not as bad if we do it either. I think that if we do a crime we should be punished for it. But I think a president should not only not do the crime, he should be expected and trusted not to do it, especially in the areas where he is expected to be the enforcer of the law, and disqualified if he does. That is, I think, a higher standard, and one that he, by seeking the position, imposes on himself.
I think Warp is basing his arguments on the landmark 1982 SCOTUS decision in Denied It v. Supplied It. It's the decision that upheld the precedent established by the 1967 Indiana Supreme Court decision in Know You Are v. What Am I?.
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Old 25th November 2021, 09:25 AM   #3198
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
The right wing is currently having a tizzy because Kamala Harris bought some fancy French cooking pan. They don't criticize anyone else. Where are the complaints of hypocrisy? Oh wait, that doesn't count, right?
Much like how, for example, they criticized Mrs. Obama's travel expenses while utterly ignoring Mrs. Bush's much greater travel expenses? The right wing propaganda machine has long since weaponized their hypocrisy as they happily throw all kinds of crap at the wall and then just follow up with what generates greater engagement, rather than actually showing any real evidence of principled behavior. It gets them what they want, though - profit and keeping those that listen to them irrationally biased towards the GOP.
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Old 25th November 2021, 10:04 AM   #3199
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Somehow people think that word erases evidence of hypocrisy and/or the endorsement of it. It doesn't. Neither does the word "trolling", I'm afraid. But hey, if you want to believe that nobody pointing a finger at Trump might be guilty of cheating on their taxes, despite stats that suggest you are very wrong, go right ahead.

The easy response was:

"Sure, a lot of people who condemn Trump over his tax filings probably cheat on their own taxes. That makes them complete hypocrites. But, it doesn't excuse Trump from any tax laws he may have violated."

But, no. Instead we have hand-wringing over the idea that such hypocrisy even exists. And somehow, even if it does, it is acceptable.

I wonder why that is?
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Old 25th November 2021, 10:19 AM   #3200
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Yes But the Southern Baptist of Kentucky Don't like being shown they are Hypocrites and Rand Paul can't win without tnem.
Get a grip. Southern Baptists went for Trump in the South by 70 or the low 80s depending on the state. This is a guy who paid hush money to a porn start, admitted to groping women and if all his indiscretions had been carried to term, there would be a global onesie shortage. It's not like they didn't know all this going into 2016. Rand Paul gives them the judges they want and hits all their culture war buttons. Southern Baptists are largely morally bereft, cynical, sociopaths who don't give a flying **** about hypocrisy.

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