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Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 22nd June 2021, 12:37 PM   #321
dudalb
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Right. It's another principle I don't understand.

Voting is a right, not a privilege.



Which is part of the weirdness. In Canada we don't get de-registered or purged ever, and we are encouraged to vote by all political parties.
Really?
What happens when you move from one province to another? How is your registration transferred so you can no longer vote in local elections in places where you no longer live? And i am sure voter rolls are "Purged" every year for people who have died in the previously year to prevent "the graveyard vote".?
Agreed that once you are registered there shoul be no time limit unless you leave the state and then it needs to be transferred.
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Old 22nd June 2021, 12:41 PM   #322
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Really, what makes the rest of the world different from the US (see what I did there? ), is that the rest of the world have non-partisan, professional public servants in charge of maintaining the electoral rolls, and running the elections. It's their job to make sure the records are up to date, and they are expected to actually do those jobs, regardless of who is in power, or looking to get into power.

What the US needs to do is get over their weird obsession with letting political parties actually have any role in any of this. When the people in charge have their jobs literally because they're Republican or Democrat, its no surprise at all that they see their job as gaming the system, not making the system actually work.

You manage to run most of the rest of the government in a largely non-partisan fashion, so it has to be possible to do the same with elections.
1000% agree. Never liked putting politicans in charge of elections.
Political parties can do what they damn well want with internal business;ie, if they want to chose their candiates by drawing a name out of a hat so be it;but actual elections should be beyond their dirty little hands.
And let's be honest;Right now the GOP are the worst offenders by far, but the Dems have plenty of skeletons in their closets;see Illinois for an example. I don't trust ANY political party where this is involved.
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Old 22nd June 2021, 12:48 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
1000% agree. Never liked putting politicans in charge of elections.
Political parties can do what they damn well want with internal business;ie, if they want to chose their candiates by drawing a name out of a hat so be it;but actual elections should be beyond their dirty little hands.
And let's be honest;Right now the GOP are the worst offenders by far, but the Dems have plenty of skeletons in their closets;see Illinois for an example. I don't trust ANY political party where this is involved.
Agreed 100%. Politicians should have no say in the election process. Those need to be independent, non-partisan positions. Anyone guilty making partisan decisions should be immediately fired and a nice hefty fine and/or jail time levied.
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Old 22nd June 2021, 01:57 PM   #324
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Speaking for Australia, and I expect it is very similar in Canada:
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
What happens when you move from one province to another? How is your registration transferred so you can no longer vote in local elections in places where you no longer live?
You need to tell the electoral commission of your change of address. It's something you do along with changing your utilities billing address, etc. Otherwise, at the next election, you will have to vote in your former electorate like you still live there, not the one you actually live in now! Before elections, we get regular advertising from AEC for us to ensure our enrollments are up-to-date.

Quote:
And i am sure voter rolls are "Purged" every year for people who have died in the previously year to prevent "the graveyard vote".?
From the AEC website: Information regarding a person who is deceased is provided to the AEC by relevant Births, Deaths and Marriages registries. Family and friends may also complete a notification of a relative who has died form.
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Old 22nd June 2021, 02:21 PM   #325
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
What happens when you move from one province to another? How is your registration transferred so you can no longer vote in local elections in places where you no longer live?
When as an adult you move anywhere in Canada you're required to update your driver's licence, health card, tax info, and mailing address. The government has access to that info. I've never had to report anything anywhere for the purpose of voting.
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Old 22nd June 2021, 02:21 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
You poor, naive child.
I am what I am.
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Old 22nd June 2021, 02:23 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Trump proposed sending Americans with Covid to Guantánamo, book claims.


And this gem.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ected-patients
He has only himself to blame. Had he been anyone but an insecure, stupid child, Trump would have made more responsible comments with regards to Covid and everything would've run smoother. He might actually have won 2020.
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Old 22nd June 2021, 02:31 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
He has only himself to blame. Had he been anyone but an insecure, stupid child, Trump would have made more responsible comments with regards to Covid and everything would've run smoother. He might actually have won 2020.
Everything T**** touches dies. In the case of COVID, quite literally.
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Old 22nd June 2021, 02:31 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
He has only himself to blame. Had he been anyone but an insecure, stupid child, Trump would have made more responsible comments with regards to Covid and everything would've run smoother. He might actually have won 2020.
I think that's very possible. Scary, innit?
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Old 22nd June 2021, 02:53 PM   #330
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I’ve long thought that Trump would very likely have won 2020 had he hiked up his trousers, taken charge, and led. Led not only by way of government action, but over the private sector, and with the bully pulpit as well. But here’s the thing: he not only didn’t know how, he has no idea how to be a leader in business, much less as a bureaucratic executive.

Trump is as close to a 100% fake-it-and-********-your-way-through-everything individual as there probably has ever been.
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Old 22nd June 2021, 03:59 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
I’ve long thought that Trump would very likely have won 2020 had he hiked up his trousers, taken charge, and led. Led not only by way of government action, but over the private sector, and with the bully pulpit as well. But here’s the thing: he not only didn’t know how, he has no idea how to be a leader in business, much less as a bureaucratic executive.

Trump is as close to a 100% fake-it-and-********-your-way-through-everything individual as there probably has ever been.
Woodward pretty much told him that in those tapes. He told Trump he was running against the pandemic. Trump lost the election the day Clorox issued a warning not to drink their products.
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Old 22nd June 2021, 04:34 PM   #332
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Originally Posted by eerok View Post
I've never had to report anything anywhere for the purpose of voting.
We soon won't either, thanks to being just a few years away from having the kind of single-party fake "elections" that we once scoffed at other second-world "democracies" for.
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Old 22nd June 2021, 04:34 PM   #333
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That's a lot of what-ifs for Dump in 2020 but the one thing he couldn't overcome was his significant incompetence. It wasn't about Dump's bad choices. COVID was the first actual challenge he faced as POTUS and as we all knew, his facade covered up his incompetence. So when actual competence was needed, there was no there there.
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Old 22nd June 2021, 04:42 PM   #334
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
We soon won't either, thanks to being just a few years away from having the kind of single-party fake "elections" that we once scoffed at other second-world "democracies" for.
No, what we'll have will be so much worse. We'll have states that are only blue all the time and states that are only red all of the time. Eventually, in an effort to prevent from becoming red states for even one election cycle, blue states will enact voting laws to prevent them from ever swinging. They'll know if the Republicans win, they will enact their own restrictive voting laws. So, Dems will come up with equally restrictive but different voting laws.
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Old 22nd June 2021, 05:30 PM   #335
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
That's a lot of what-ifs for Dump in 2020 but the one thing he couldn't overcome was his significant incompetence. It wasn't about Dump's bad choices. COVID was the first actual challenge he faced as POTUS and as we all knew, his facade covered up his incompetence. So when actual competence was needed, there was no there there.
Yeah, you can't claim a deadly pandemic is a partisan witch hunt. Oh, wait.......
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Old 22nd June 2021, 05:53 PM   #336
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I kind of feel like this story from the the WAPO reporters' book about Trump wanting to send people with COVID-19 to GITMO isn't getting the play it deserves. I mean it stands out as deranged even by Trump standards.
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Old 22nd June 2021, 06:03 PM   #337
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Trashy Trump attracts trashy supporters. Have you seen his rally attendees?

Of course it does. That's the whole goal.
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Old 22nd June 2021, 06:23 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
No, what we'll have will be so much worse. We'll have states that are only blue all the time and states that are only red all of the time. Eventually, in an effort to prevent from becoming red states for even one election cycle, blue states will enact voting laws to prevent them from ever swinging. They'll know if the Republicans win, they will enact their own restrictive voting laws. So, Dems will come up with equally restrictive but different voting laws.


Equally restrictive?
They want to give felons the right to vote again.
They want mail-in ballots available to anyone who wants one.
They want to reduce lines at polls by having enough machines.

I’m not seeing how they can make equally restrictive voting laws.
I guess they could limit the number of polling stations in rural counties to discourage Republicans from voting, but I suspect the votes they eliminated would be offset by moderates who were turned off by that.
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Old 22nd June 2021, 06:28 PM   #339
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
No, what we'll have will be so much worse. We'll have states that are only blue all the time and states that are only red all of the time. Eventually, in an effort to prevent from becoming red states for even one election cycle, blue states will enact voting laws to prevent them from ever swinging. They'll know if the Republicans win, they will enact their own restrictive voting laws. So, Dems will come up with equally restrictive but different voting laws.
That's not true. Democrats know that their policies are generally supported by large majorities of Americans. Republican leaders, including The Previous Guy, have said that if all Americans voted in free and fair elections, Republicans would never win. We'll take our chances at the polls if everybody can vote; no restrictions necessary.
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Old 22nd June 2021, 06:29 PM   #340
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At a gathering of election, COVID-19, and QAnon conspiracy theorists, Mike Lindell said he'll be hosting a "cyber symposium" in July where "cyber guys" will prove the election was stolen and then "Donald Trump will be in office by this fall, for sure." https://bit.ly/3jan8fg

https://mobile.twitter.com/RightWing...69438085722116
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Old 22nd June 2021, 06:29 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I kind of feel like this story from the the WAPO reporters' book about Trump wanting to send people with COVID-19 to GITMO isn't getting the play it deserves. I mean it stands out as deranged even by Trump standards.
No, the great crime is that is does not stand out by Trump standards.
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Old 22nd June 2021, 06:31 PM   #342
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
Equally restrictive?
Well yes. See, if you allow minorities to vote, they'll vote democrat, and that means communist laws, and we all know communism means gulags and the KGB. There.
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Old 22nd June 2021, 07:11 PM   #343
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Report: Trump asked Justice Dept. to shut down SNL and Jimmy Kimmel for being mean to him.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-...om-teasing-him
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Old 22nd June 2021, 07:35 PM   #344
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
No, what we'll have will be so much worse. We'll have states that are only blue all the time and states that are only red all of the time. Eventually, in an effort to prevent from becoming red states for even one election cycle, blue states will enact voting laws to prevent them from ever swinging. They'll know if the Republicans win, they will enact their own restrictive voting laws. So, Dems will come up with equally restrictive but different voting laws.
What are you smoking?
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Old 22nd June 2021, 07:42 PM   #345
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Report: Trump asked Justice Dept. to shut down SNL and Jimmy Kimmel for being mean to him.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-...om-teasing-him
Trumpelthinskin at his best...or is that worst? This coming from the man (and I use that word in its very loosest interpretation) who attacks everyone and everything he dislikes on supposedly serious 'news' shows, not comedy shows.
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Old 22nd June 2021, 11:33 PM   #346
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
[/hilite]

Equally restrictive?
They want to give felons the right to vote again.
They want mail-in ballots available to anyone who wants one.
They want to reduce lines at polls by having enough machines.

I’m not seeing how they can make equally restrictive voting laws.
I guess they could limit the number of polling stations in rural counties to discourage Republicans from voting, but I suspect the votes they eliminated would be offset by moderates who were turned off by that.
Yes but you can structure those laws to favor your party. You can for instance, favor polling places and drop boxes to your demographic. There's always gerrymandering. All the things you're talking about you can do to shift in your favor. It's mostly about where you put the resources.
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Old 23rd June 2021, 02:29 AM   #347
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Report: Trump asked Justice Dept. to shut down SNL and Jimmy Kimmel for being mean to him.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-...om-teasing-him
You know how Trump always uses superlatives for everything? He's always the most or best or whatever.

He's worthy of a few superlatives, actually. The most ignorant, most incompetent, stupidest, most dishonest and most petty person I know.
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Old 23rd June 2021, 07:36 AM   #348
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Yes but you can structure those laws to favor your party. You can for instance, favor polling places and drop boxes to your demographic. There's always gerrymandering. All the things you're talking about you can do to shift in your favor. It's mostly about where you put the resources.
While that is no doubt true to some extent, I think there is a huge, and materially important, difference between giving one side more resources and depriving one side of resources. And recent moves not only to do this but to allow for retroactive invalidation of results go beyond the issue of resource allocation. It's not as if there are no Democratic-dominated districts already in existence from which one can derive comparison.

We can undoubtedly point to instances of unfairness, real or perceived, and to unfortunate history, but I don't think you can come up with a pattern of Democratic effort to disenfranchise opponents that comes close to what we're seeing now. And the current Democratic move to pass laws that prevent such offenses is not that either.
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Old 23rd June 2021, 07:50 AM   #349
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Re: Could the Democrats use the same 'dirty tricks' of voter suppression that the republicans are using...
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Yes but you can structure those laws to favor your party. You can for instance, favor polling places and drop boxes to your demographic. There's always gerrymandering. All the things you're talking about you can do to shift in your favor. It's mostly about where you put the resources.
True, the Democrats could do those things...(although I suspect they are more likely to just hand things over to some bipartisan group to handle those things.)

But, the other things the republicans are doing (voter roll purges, strict voter ID laws) don't really have an equivalent "Democrats can do those things".

After all:
- The purges are done by republicans to supposedly get rid of non-voters, felons, etc. (that's the claim... we know the real reason is to make it harder for Democrats to vote). But I can't think of a way to specifically purge right-wing voters in the same manner

- Voter ID restrictions probably won't work against Republicans since they are the ones who are likely to have basic ID in the first place (like a driver's license.)
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Old 23rd June 2021, 10:16 AM   #350
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Re: Could the Democrats use the same 'dirty tricks' of voter suppression that the republicans are using...

True, the Democrats could do those things...(although I suspect they are more likely to just hand things over to some bipartisan group to handle those things.)

But, the other things the republicans are doing (voter roll purges, strict voter ID laws) don't really have an equivalent "Democrats can do those things".

After all:
- The purges are done by republicans to supposedly get rid of non-voters, felons, etc. (that's the claim... we know the real reason is to make it harder for Democrats to vote). But I can't think of a way to specifically purge right-wing voters in the same manner

- Voter ID restrictions probably won't work against Republicans since they are the ones who are likely to have basic ID in the first place (like a driver's license.)
The simpler point is that the Dems will win if everyone votes, because the majority is smart enough to see where their self-interest lies, and the GOP flat out don't represent the people. This is why historically the GOP must cheat to win (mostly by finding ways to make it legal to cheat, as they are frantically doing at the moment).
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Old 23rd June 2021, 10:47 AM   #351
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Originally Posted by eerok View Post
The simpler point is that the Dems will win if everyone votes, because the majority is smart enough to see where their self-interest lies, and the GOP flat out don't represent the people. This is why historically the GOP must cheat to win (mostly by finding ways to make it legal to cheat, as they are frantically doing at the moment).
Which Republicans have admitted themselves.

Quote:
As one top GOP lawyer says, allowing for mail ballot or other reforms “puts us at a competitive disadvantage.”
Quote:
....in the words of South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham, “”If Republicans don’t challenge and change the US election system, there will never be another Republican president elected again.”
Quote:
House Majority Leader Mike Turzai (R-Allegheny) told the Republican State Committee that Voter ID will allow Romney to win PA.
“Pro-Second Amendment? The Castle Doctrine, it’s done. First pro-life legislation – abortion facility regulations – in 22 years, done. Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done.”
https://www.politicspa.com/turzai-vo...-win-pa/37153/
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Old 23rd June 2021, 10:48 AM   #352
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
- Voter ID restrictions probably won't work against Republicans since they are the ones who are likely to have basic ID in the first place (like a driver's license.)

Part of the Republican plan isn't just requiring IDs, but then defining IDs in such a way as to eliminate those most likely to be used by Democrats - like public housing IDs, student IDs, and the like.

So just sneak in a proviso that a driver's license isn't adequate. Hell, they even give those to illegal aliens! How can something that an illegal alien! can so easily acquire serve as proof that you're a US citizen? Nonsense!

Let's go with only using passports as valid voter ID. That should ****-can a bunch of redneck votes.
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Old 23rd June 2021, 10:52 AM   #353
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It's the terrible insidiousness of Republican Trolling. What they say is, from a certain angle with absolutely zero intellectual honesty, technically a kind of correct.

If the Republicans get to run voting, the Republicans will tend to win.
If the Democrats get to run voting, the Democrats will tend to win.

And that's technically correct and that's where their brain chooses to stop, ignoring the fact that's only technically true in the sense that Democrats want voting fair and open to everyone AND they will win because most Democratic policies just appeal more to more people while the Republicans want to further rig an already rigged system BECAUSE that's the only way they can keep winning.
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Old 23rd June 2021, 10:53 AM   #354
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
You'd think they'd instead realise that rather than break American democracy they could, you know, just change their platform.
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Old 23rd June 2021, 10:54 AM   #355
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
It's the terrible insidiousness of Republican Trolling. What they say is, from a certain angle with absolutely zero intellectual honesty, technically a kind of correct.

If the Republicans get to run voting, the Republicans will tend to win.
If the Democrats get to run voting, the Democrats will tend to win.

And that's technically correct and that's where their brain chooses to stop, ignoring the fact that's only technically true in the sense that Democrats want voting fair and open to everyone AND they will win because most Democratic policies just appeal more to more people while the Republicans want to further rig an already rigged system BECAUSE that's the only way they can keep winning.
The above. Truth.
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Old 23rd June 2021, 10:58 AM   #356
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Well yes. See, if you allow minorities to vote, they'll vote democrat, and that means communist laws, and we all know communism means gulags and the KGB. There.
The point I was trying to make is that it is virtually impossible for Democrats to be equally as restrictive as Republicans.

Even if the Dems sent almost all the voting machines to the cities and allowed only one poling station for rural county, the effect would be pretty small. Almost everyone out in the country has a car or knows someone who will drive them to a polling station. Most folks out that way could easily take off a half a day to go vote. The low-income Democrats don’t have that luxury.
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Old 23rd June 2021, 10:59 AM   #357
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
The above. Truth.
Yeah but the Republicans have been very, very good at selling the message that them wanting to rig the system so they win and the Democrats wanting them stop them from rigging the system so they win are "the same" because in both cases one side "wins."

It's classic "Appeal to False Fairness" a kissing cousin to "Teach the Controversy."

If you're losing in a dishonest fashion, you do your best to rebrand whatever could possibly make the system more fair as just another form bias/rigging the system.

And sadly it works as a message a lot. And it works really well with groups who see being the ones in power as just like obviously their God declared right by fiat.
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Old 23rd June 2021, 11:01 AM   #358
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
The point I was trying to make is that it is virtually impossible for Democrats to be equally as restrictive as Republicans.
I know. I was doing an impression of a Trumpster.
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Old 23rd June 2021, 11:03 AM   #359
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
You'd think they'd instead realise that rather than break American democracy they could, you know, just change their platform.
Honestly, at present, that might actually be a bit harder than it sounds, given how badly they've painted themselves into a corner.
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Old 23rd June 2021, 11:06 AM   #360
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Honestly, at present, that might actually be a bit harder than it sounds, given how badly they've painted themselves into a corner.
Yeah at this point you yank the icky-sticky core of a vague spiteful trolling based on nothing but contingency theory twinged obstructionism out of the GOP and what's left exactly?
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