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Tags Australia elections , Australia politics , Gladys Berejiklian , Julie Bishop , Malcolm Turnbull , Peter Dutton , Scott Morrison

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Old 26th August 2021, 04:09 AM   #361
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Being in one of the non-cursed Sydney areas, I don't think they are a lot different in practice. There have been regular police crackdowns on lockdown rules-breakers here, 100kms from the CBD. Btw, the hardware stores, all three of them within 50kms, are closed. The dozens of supermarkets, though, are open under limited conditions.

Really, people have been bitching about a "Ring Of Steel" around the affected areas and why Gladys didn't go hard earlier. Of course she has gone far too belatedly. But now that Ring Of Steel is indeed clamped down on the worst affected areas, a "Fence Of Steel" is on the broader Sydney area, and the rest of the state is locked down hard. Short of nailing everyone to their kitchen tables, the place is now stationary. So we are all just going to have to wait this out.
I hope you are right, but I expect videos of massive close contact crowds at Bondi and Manly.

And please understand that I was born and bred in Sydney. Chippendale slum, Marist Brothers, Bondi Surf Club. I love Sydney, but I am equally sad and angry at how the place is governed at the moment.
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Old 26th August 2021, 04:14 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I hope you are right, but I expect videos of massive close contact crowds at Bondi and Manly.
The fake vaccination proof industry is going to be rampant.

Quote:
And please understand that I was born and bred in Sydney. Chippendale slum, Marist Brothers, Bondi Surf Club. I love Sydney, but I am equally sad and angry at how the place is governed at the moment.
I was born in another state, but grew up, and have lived and worked in Sydney all my life. It's always had shocking governments, on both sides, for as long as I can remember. Probably stems and continues from the earliest colonial times.

Doesn't mean I buy into that "Hate Melbourne!" lark either.




Mexicans...
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Old 26th August 2021, 06:14 AM   #363
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Well if you have not lived and breathed Melbourne air, you are dead to me…..
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Old 26th August 2021, 07:04 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Well if you have not lived and breathed Melbourne air, you are dead to me…..
Not only have I done that, I have worn black to work, and taken coffee in a laneway.
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Old 27th August 2021, 07:35 PM   #365
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Another 1,035 covid cases in NSW today. I think it's going to get a lot worse before it improves, and I don't think easing restrictions for the vaccinated are a good idea since we know delta still affects vaccinated people.

The only good thing lately is that the National Cabinet decided to allow younger people to get vaccinated, so good on the state premiers for making that decision.
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Old 27th August 2021, 10:26 PM   #366
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The situation in NSW may not improve. Their numbers are going up by 40+% per week since mid-June. At this rate, NSW will hit 2,000 new cases per day before 20 September.
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Old 28th August 2021, 02:44 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by Wildy View Post
Another 1,035 covid cases in NSW today. I think it's going to get a lot worse before it improves, and I don't think easing restrictions for the vaccinated are a good idea since we know delta still affects vaccinated people.
I actually think the latest science totally supports the idea of letting Covid go, as soon as the vulnerable have been vaccinated.

I've been schooling some clowns on how quickly the vaccine wears off, and it's much better for people to be exposed within three months of vaccination, because by six months, the protection against delta is significantly reduced. Get a big wave out of the way and resume life as usual. It would be a bit messy for a while, but I really think the long-term result would be significantly positive compared to trying to hold the growth curve to less than parabolic.
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Old 28th August 2021, 02:59 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I actually think the latest science totally supports the idea of letting Covid go, as soon as the vulnerable have been vaccinated.

I've been schooling some clowns on how quickly the vaccine wears off, and it's much better for people to be exposed within three months of vaccination, because by six months, the protection against delta is significantly reduced. Get a big wave out of the way and resume life as usual. It would be a bit messy for a while, but I really think the long-term result would be significantly positive compared to trying to hold the growth curve to less than parabolic.
Thank Christ our leaders will never listen to the likes of you. The vulnerable include children. Messy for a while? Before long there will be dozens of deaths a day in NSW, but not other, more responsible states.

Do you seriously not understand the insanity of letting it rip with vaccination rates of around 30%?

Life as usual means needless deaths. Try it in NZ by all means and report back. Otherwise keep your pompous and useless opinions to yourself.
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Old 28th August 2021, 04:14 AM   #369
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The alternative in NSW, and maybe other places, is lockdown for a long time, maybe forever.
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Old 28th August 2021, 05:05 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I actually think the latest science totally supports the idea of letting Covid go, as soon as the vulnerable have been vaccinated.
Source?
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Old 28th August 2021, 07:32 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I actually think the latest science totally supports the idea of letting Covid go, as soon as the vulnerable have been vaccinated.
The "vulnerable" consists of all the unvaccinated people at any one point in time. So yeah. When they are all vaccinated, you can consider "letting COVID rip" then.

Which is exactly the same as when we had nobody vaccinated, and also 20% vaccinated, and will be the same for 40%, 60% and 80% vaccinated. Because COVID has been "ripping" for nearly 2 years now, unabated. That's why we have a pandemic! It's been in all the papers. Sheesh, pay attention.
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Old 28th August 2021, 12:25 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Thank Christ our leaders will never listen to the likes of you.
They don't need to - Morrison is on the same page, and it looks very much like Gladys has arrived there as well. Chairman Dan and St Jacinda are going to get to that page shortly, and what they do will be fascinating to see.

There aren't many options left when lockdowns don't continue the spread, and I see a few of our experts are arriving at the growing and obvious point that you can't stop delta, unless you're China and can confine everyone to their home.

Quote:
I'm pretty sure Victoria has no Plan B, either.

I give it one week from today and both leaderships will recognise they be ******.

Originally Posted by lionking View Post
The vulnerable include children.
OMFG!!11!! Won't someone think of the children????

I'm beginning to wonder whether the panic about kids is actually personal fear.

I've asked repeatedly and still haven't had an answer.

How many dead children is an acceptable number to die from Covid?

Just on the subject of kids - how are those neonates who contracted Covid in the NICU doing? They all dead yet?

They must be confidential, I guess, because they contracted Covid one month ago and I see Victoria's death total hasn't changed, so I'm picking that these most vulnerable babies, who only had a tenuous grasp on life, contracted Covid and survived.

How many dead children is an acceptable number to die from Covid?

(I ask again, because if you think the number can be zero, I can only conclude you have no grip on reality whatsoever.)

Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Messy for a while? Before long there will be dozens of deaths a day in NSW, but not other, more responsible states.
You must be able to see well from the height of that horse you're on.

Yes, the mess will include very good business for undertakers for a couple of months.

I'd be interested to hear what your alternatives are.

Note, this is from your own government's official infectious disease partner:

Quote:
During the week the Doherty Institute in Australia – an infectious disease centre working with the Australian Government to plan its way out of Covid isolation – issued a statement on its modelling on opening Australia up.

“In an average year of influenza, we would roughly have 600 deaths and 200,000 cases in Australia. Any death is a tragedy, but our health system can cope with this. In the Covid-19 modelling, opening up at 70 per cent vaccine coverage of the adult population with partial public health measures, we predict 385,983 symptomatic cases and 1457 deaths over six months.

“With optimal public health measures [and no lockdowns], this can be significantly reduced to 2737 infections and 13 deaths.”
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Do you seriously not understand the insanity of letting it rip with vaccination rates of around 30%?
Mate, I've been on Covid since Day One. I know exactly what will happen.

The problem is, I'm almost convinced there isn't any other choice. As above, feel free to explain what you think can be done.

And if you want to stay shut forever, ignoring the known affect lockdowns are having on poverty and education, then I'll have no choice but to believe your problem is fear of the disease itself.

Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Life as usual means needless deaths. Try it in NZ by all means and report back. Otherwise keep your pompous and useless opinions to yourself.
I don't think or recommend it's life as usual. And I hope both our governments figure it out: until you hit 70% vaccination rates, cut the chance of super-spreader events by keeping venues shut, wear masks at all times at work and shopping, and hold distancing rules.

Which is exactly what your experts are now saying.
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Old 28th August 2021, 12:33 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by Wildy View Post
Source?
Depends what you want a source for.

The important threads to join together are as follows:

1 Vaccine efficacy against delta wanes quite quickly, and wanes fastest in the oldest. When you start by vaccinating the most-vulnerable groups, they will be hardest hit the longer opening is delayed.

2 Delta is more infectious, and stopping it is either incredibly difficult, or impossible. Taiwan, Aussie and NZ are all employing elimination strategies, and Aussie & NZ are failing miserably. Taiwan has got infections down to single digits with months of lockdown, but since there are still cases, it will break out again.

3 Masks and other measures still slow the spread.

4 Vaccine rates of >70% appear to be the magic number, according to UK's trends.
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Old 28th August 2021, 12:35 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
The "vulnerable" consists of all the unvaccinated people at any one point in time. So yeah. When they are all vaccinated, you can consider "letting COVID rip" then.
A vote for "shut down forever".

Yeah, destroy children's most important thing in life, send people in poverty into hunger.

But I hate children.
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Old 28th August 2021, 06:08 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
A vote for "shut down forever".
********.

Start opening up when 70% vaccinated target is reached. I think over 80% will eventually be vaccinated here with massive numbers of young people lining up.
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Old 28th August 2021, 06:38 PM   #376
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1200 in NSW today. On the way to 10,000. The health system will break down.

I would just like Gladys to admit fault for not acting sooner. She won’t.
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Old 28th August 2021, 06:53 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I actually think the latest science totally supports the idea of letting Covid go, as soon as the vulnerable have been vaccinated.

I've been schooling some clowns on how quickly the vaccine wears off, and it's much better for people to be exposed within three months of vaccination, because by six months, the protection against delta is significantly reduced. Get a big wave out of the way and resume life as usual. It would be a bit messy for a while, but I really think the long-term result would be significantly positive compared to trying to hold the growth curve to less than parabolic.
That seems to be the policy adopted in the UK and some other European countries. Although new cases continue to soar, hospitalizations and deaths are way down thanks to their high vaccination rate.

It may be that we will be forced ot live this way with Covid for a long time we will need a high vaccination rate (at least 80% among all age groups) before we can risk "letting er rip".
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Old 28th August 2021, 07:25 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
That seems to be the policy adopted in the UK and some other European countries. Although new cases continue to soar, hospitalizations and deaths are way down thanks to their high vaccination rate.
I think it's actually more complicated than that. Spain, France and Italy all had massive outbreaks with unknown, but very large, numbers of people having caught Covid, which also provides some protection against dying from it.

Those countries are all at 60% or more fully vaccinated and infections are going down despite appearing to be fully open.

Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
It may be that we will be forced ot live this way with Covid for a long time we will need a high vaccination rate (at least 80% among all age groups) before we can risk "letting er rip".
Is the vaccine approved for children in Aussie yet? We've just started allowing 12+ over here.
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Old 28th August 2021, 09:16 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Is the vaccine approved for children in Aussie yet? We've just started allowing 12+ over here.
"Vaccination against COVID-19 is recommended for all individuals from 12 years of age, extending the current recommendation for those aged 16 years and older."

- ATAGI, two days ago.

https://www.health.gov.au/news/atagi...s-in-australia
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Old 28th August 2021, 09:38 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Those countries are all at 60% or more fully vaccinated and infections are going down despite appearing to be fully open.
Not according to the stats I have seen. In the UK the daily rate of new infections is above 30K which is at least as high as it has ever been.
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Old 28th August 2021, 11:04 PM   #381
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Do you mob hear a difference between “freedom” and “freedoms?” The latter seems to be be getting a fair run these days. Just heard Gladys use it and the protesters do too.

Last edited by Sideroxylon; 28th August 2021 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 29th August 2021, 12:48 AM   #382
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Not according to the stats I have seen. In the UK the daily rate of new infections is above 30K which is at least as high as it has ever been.
I specifically stated: "Spain, France and Italy"

Last time I checked, those countries are not part of UK, and UK isn't even a member of the EU any more. I made no comment on UK.

In the case of UK, they have a high positive rate and a death rate slightly above that of seasonal influenza, so I don't see too many negatives there, either. Hospitals aren't overflowing, crematoria aren't working overtime.
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Old 29th August 2021, 01:07 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Do you mob hear a difference between “freedom” and “freedoms?” The latter seems to be be getting a fair run these days. Just heard Gladys use it and the protesters do too.
The other difference with Gladys and co is that they are now referring to people dying “with covid” rather than “from covid”. Neatly placing the blame on the poor victims rather than her unforgivable delay in implement the inadequate “mockdown”.

She also makes reference to those who die without vaccinations. Scum.
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Old 29th August 2021, 02:29 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
In the case of UK, they have a high positive rate and a death rate slightly above that of seasonal influenza, so I don't see too many negatives there, either. Hospitals aren't overflowing, crematoria aren't working overtime.
That's what I'm getting at. Barring a more effective vaccine or a cure, this may be the best that we can hope for. Keeping a covid outbreak away seems to be getting more difficult as time passes.
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Old 29th August 2021, 02:46 AM   #385
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
The other difference with Gladys and co is that they are now referring to people dying “with covid” rather than “from covid”. Neatly placing the blame on the poor victims rather than her unforgivable delay in implement the inadequate “mockdown”.

She also makes reference to those who die without vaccinations. Scum.
But use as a countable noun? Gladys could just talk about our “freedom.” Reminds me of a certain country that has a Bill of Rights that references specific freedoms. Smacks of an Americanisation of our politics.
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Old 29th August 2021, 02:48 AM   #386
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
The other difference with Gladys and co is that they are now referring to people dying “with covid” rather than “from covid”.
It's a reasonable distinction in many cases, especially the seriously aged and infirm. If someone in a hospice with three weeks to live catches Covid and croaks, it's hardly one to put in deaths from Covid. Like the 90+ vaccinated bloke who died in Sydney - he was sicker than a parrot to start with, being fed through a tube.

Originally Posted by lionking View Post
She also makes reference to those who die without vaccinations. Scum.
I'd see that as a positive. It might encourage some of the hesitant to get a jab.

Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
That's what I'm getting at. Barring a more effective vaccine or a cure, this may be the best that we can hope for. Keeping a covid outbreak away seems to be getting more difficult as time passes.
Ah, another one beginning to see the light.

I have seen nothing to encourage me to believe delta can be stopped.
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Old 29th August 2021, 02:59 AM   #387
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
It's a reasonable distinction in many cases, especially the seriously aged and infirm. If someone in a hospice with three weeks to live catches Covid and croaks, it's hardly one to put in deaths from Covid. Like the 90+ vaccinated bloke who died in Sydney - he was sicker than a parrot to start with, being fed through a tube.



I'd see that as a positive. It might encourage some of the hesitant to get a jab.



Ah, another one beginning to see the light.

I have seen nothing to encourage me to believe delta can be stopped.
Getting my second dose tomorrow. I expect I will be having another next year.
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Old 29th August 2021, 03:11 AM   #388
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When we get to 80% and open up, I expect a surge to over 90%. Why? Because myGov records vaccinations and will link to checkin apps. As soon as people are denied access to pubs and cafes because they are not vaccinated, they will get it done.

My sister-in-law, who lives in a low virus part of country Victoria, was not planning on getting a vaccination. When I explained she would have to forego her cafe catch ups she soon changed her mind.
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Old 29th August 2021, 03:15 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
But use as a countable noun? Gladys could just talk about our “freedom.” Reminds me of a certain country that has a Bill of Rights that references specific freedoms. Smacks of an Americanisation of our politics.
Oh yes I agree with that.
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Old 29th August 2021, 11:04 AM   #390
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Getting my second dose tomorrow. I expect I will be having another next year.
A word to the science on that - it seems that Janssen/J&J is outperforming other vaccines, and given the speed of decline of the mRNA vaccines, I think it's where I'll be going.

Watch this space.
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Old 29th August 2021, 09:26 PM   #391
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Tasmanian Premier Peter Gutwein admitted to hospital for undisclosed illness

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Tasmanian Premier Peter Gutwein has been admitted to hospital after becoming unwell at his office.

In a statement, Deputy Premier Jeremy Rockliff said Mr Gutwein was "undergoing a number of tests which to date have not identified any medical issues of concern".

Mr Gutwein would "take a few days to rest and recover", Mr Rockliff said.

"During this time I will be acting as premier and arrangements are being made to cover his absence from Parliament this week," Mr Rockliff said.

Mr Rockliff said an update on Mr Gutwein's "health and return to work will be provided later this week".
First Dan's accident and now this. It's like the job is cursed.
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Old 30th August 2021, 09:56 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Tasmanian Premier Peter Gutwein admitted to hospital for undisclosed illness

First Dan's accident and now this. It's like the job is cursed.
What's he got? Rug-burns?
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Old 31st August 2021, 12:34 AM   #393
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Scuttlebutt says that there might be an early election.
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Old 31st August 2021, 12:44 AM   #394
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Scuttlebutt says that there might be an early election.

Who's Scuttlebutt?
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Old 31st August 2021, 12:50 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Who's Scuttlebutt?
Amy Remeikis from the Guardian.

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And yes Scott Morrison did say the election will be sooner than you think to the party room today, but I don’t think he means in the next month. I could be wrong – none of us know for sure, because we don’t have fixed terms, so the date is basically a sword of Damocles above all of our heads.
Source
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Old 31st August 2021, 12:55 AM   #396
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Amy Remeikis from the Guardian.
If he's smart, which he's definitely shown signs of being every now and then, he'd be calling an election asap.

Why wait until Labour finds someone credible?
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Old 31st August 2021, 01:04 AM   #397
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
If he's smart, which he's definitely shown signs of being every now and then, he'd be calling an election asap.

Why wait until Labour finds someone credible?

Exactly.
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Old 31st August 2021, 01:20 AM   #398
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Meanwhile, this:

Coalition MPs want more school chaplains to help children suffering mentally due to ‘alarmist’ climate activism

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MPs ask Scott Morrison to fund chaplains in every school, saying global warming alarmism is causing ‘mental health problems’ in young


Coalition MPs have urged Scott Morrison to increase funding to the government’s school chaplaincy program to help address concerns that activism against global heating is causing mental health problems for Australian children.

In the Coalition party room on Tuesday, Liberal MP Andrew Wallace compared children’s fear of climate change with the threat of nuclear annihilation in the 1970s and 80s, and requested full funding for chaplains in every school to help ease concerns.

The assistant youth minister, Luke Howarth, has backed the call to expand the program in comments to Guardian Australia, saying climate activism is “alarmist and does cause mental health problems for young people” that could be helped by chaplains.

Moderate Liberals interpret the push as preparation for increased funding to appease conservative party room members in the event the religious discrimination bill is stripped back.
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Old 31st August 2021, 03:12 AM   #399
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
They could have picked any "progressive" cause to justify this push. When in fact this call for increased chaplain-funding is the real alarmism.
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Old 31st August 2021, 03:25 AM   #400
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
They could have picked any "progressive" cause to justify this push. When in fact this call for increased chaplain-funding is the real alarmism.
This causes me deep despair. To those not aware of the background, Howard brought this in, no surprise. BUT Gillard and Rudd kept it!!!!

And Albo will as well. Cowardly ALP.

The old guard Catholic ALP supporters have no love for chaplains, but recent ALP leadership simply pander to bible bashers.

Another reason I have trouble casting a formal vote for the ALP.
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