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Tags Ahmaud Arbery , Georgia incidents , Gregory McMichael , prosecutorial misconduct , racism charges , racism incidents , shooting incidents , Travis McMichael , William Bryan

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Old 15th September 2021, 10:38 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
This one slipped past me, from Aug 31:

Defense won't be allowed to smear murder victim for unrelated prior history of petty criminal conduct.
Yup, I made this same statement wrt letting in Rosenbaum's history in the Rittenhouse case. Unless it's directly related it's pretty much dismissed. Also, Ahmaud is not on trial.
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Old 15th September 2021, 10:46 AM   #82
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"Whine... whine... but how will the jury understand our headspace of being scawwwwweeeeeeeeed foooooooooooooooorrrrrrrr ooouuuuuuuuuuurrrrr liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiivvvvveeeeessss...... from the black guy we were running down in pickup while brandishing shotguns."

Is Arbury's running speed still allowed to be discussed in court? Maybe he was running away from them so fast they were scared he would circumnavigate the globe and catch them by surprise from the rear.
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Old 15th September 2021, 12:20 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
"Whine... whine... but how will the jury understand our headspace of being scawwwwweeeeeeeeed foooooooooooooooorrrrrrrr ooouuuuuuuuuuurrrrr liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiivvvvveeeeessss...... from the black guy we were running down in pickup while brandishing shotguns."

Is Arbury's running speed still allowed to be discussed in court? Maybe he was running away from them so fast they were scared he would circumnavigate the globe and catch them by surprise from the rear.
There's evidence that it can happen. Wallace West did it, and he's black!

Sure it was in a comic book, but that means nothing!
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Old 15th September 2021, 01:57 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
This one slipped past me, from Aug 31:



https://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-new...GOC6JRZBRL2YY/


Defense won't be allowed to smear murder victim for unrelated prior history of petty criminal conduct.
Good, because allowing that would be prejudicial.

There is no reason for the victim's brushes with the law
to be brought up - he is not the one on trial.
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Old 15th September 2021, 06:32 PM   #85
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But how are we going to blame him for his own murder now?
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Old 15th September 2021, 07:44 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
This one slipped past me, from Aug 31:



https://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-new...GOC6JRZBRL2YY/


Defense won't be allowed to smear murder victim for unrelated prior history of petty criminal conduct.
Thanks
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Old 15th September 2021, 08:15 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
This one slipped past me, from Aug 31:



https://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-new...GOC6JRZBRL2YY/


Defense won't be allowed to smear murder victim for unrelated prior history of petty criminal conduct.
Correct decision by the judge, and not really a difficult one.
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Old 20th September 2021, 07:12 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Yup, I made this same statement wrt letting in Rosenbaum's history in the Rittenhouse case. Unless it's directly related it's pretty much dismissed. Also, Ahmaud is not on trial.
On the plus side it would make good evidence of premeditation and prior planning on the part of the murderers to specifically murder him. If falls under the he needed killing defense as a total aside from self defense.
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Old 18th October 2021, 05:57 AM   #89
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Jury selection starting today:

Quote:
Jury selection could last two weeks or more. Arbery's father said he's praying for an impartial panel and a fair trial, saying Black crime victims too often have been denied justice.

“This is 2021, and it’s time for a change,” Marcus Arbery Sr. said in an interview. "We need to be treated equally and get fair justice as human beings, because we’ve been treated wrong so long.”

Before the selection process begins, Superior Court Judge Timothy Walmsley first planned to hold a morning hearing to address legal issues that must be resolved before the trial starts.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/10/...flow%3Atwitter
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Old 18th October 2021, 06:56 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
On the plus side it would make good evidence of premeditation and prior planning on the part of the murderers to specifically murder him. If falls under the he needed killing defense as a total aside from self defense.
You'd somehow have to show that those bumbling dip ***** had any idea he was in trouble before. The fact is they would have confronted any individual had he fit their criteria: Black and on a property he didn't own.
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Old 20th October 2021, 09:37 AM   #91
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It looks like the county ****** up the jury selection by giving jurors access to suppressed evidence.

Quote:
The Georgia county court where the three alleged murderers of Ahmaud Arbery are on trial mistakenly exposed potential jurors to suppressed evidence, including the 25-year-old black jogger's mental health history, which a judge banned from the trial.

If any of the potential jurors see the suppressed evidence, they could be tossed from the jury pool, Vice News reported.

The evidence on the court's website also included how many times defendants Greg and Travis McMichael used their firearms as well as the Confederate flag vanity plate on the back of Travis McMichael's truck.
No ruling as of yet on if it will be a mistrial or anything
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Old 20th October 2021, 09:48 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
It looks like the county ****** up the jury selection by giving jurors access to suppressed evidence.



No ruling as of yet on if it will be a mistrial or anything
I imagine it could delay the jury selection if the current pool is considered spoiled by the screw-up. Caution would seem the appropriate response rather than plowing ahead and risking a mistrial. Get a fresh crop in and start selection over.
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Old 20th October 2021, 10:45 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I imagine it could delay the jury selection if the current pool is considered spoiled by the screw-up. Caution would seem the appropriate response rather than plowing ahead and risking a mistrial. Get a fresh crop in and start selection over.
I don't know how large their jury pool is but they sent out something like 600 requests for this jury pool. I would think that you could find 16 out of that 600 that haven't seen it. At this point they're moving ahead with jury selection.
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Old 3rd November 2021, 01:31 PM   #94
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Ah yes the defense is employing the cunning "Just don't let black people on the jury" tactic.

Defense strikes 11 of 12 potential black jurors.

https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/l...JCRRLNVRXIFMY/
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Old 3rd November 2021, 01:33 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Ah yes the defense is employing the cunning "Just don't let black people on the jury" tactic.

Defense strikes 11 of 12 potential black jurors.

https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/l...JCRRLNVRXIFMY/
Don't hate the players, hate the game.
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Old 3rd November 2021, 01:36 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Ah yes the defense is employing the cunning "Just don't let black people on the jury" tactic.

Defense strikes 11 of 12 potential black jurors.

https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/l...JCRRLNVRXIFMY/
Even that may not be enough. This is the same county that bounced the corrupt DA, now facing criminal charges for the coverup, at the next election.

I think that even an all-white Southern jury might find their way to convicting a lynch party.
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Old 3rd November 2021, 01:39 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Don't hate the players, hate the game.
That's some good racist apologetics there bud. Even for you.
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Old 3rd November 2021, 01:40 PM   #98
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The prosecution needs to play the defence's racism game - strike all but one white juror, and keep doing so until they run out of potential jurors in the pool.

"The hard part about playing chicken is knowing when to flinch"

-Capt Bart Mancuso (Sub Driver) "The Hunt for red October"
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Old 3rd November 2021, 01:40 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Even that may not be enough. This is the same county that bounced the corrupt DA, now facing criminal charges for the coverup, at the next election.

I think that even an all-white Southern jury might find their way to convicting a lynch party.
I want to be optimistic but I'm not fully over the fact that they had totally and completely gotten away with it. Had the video not leaked it's 100% metaphysically certain not only would they have gotten away with it, we wouldn't even know the event happened.

That's a lot of swamp to clear to get to a viable fair verdict.
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Old 3rd November 2021, 01:42 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I want to be optimistic but I'm not fully over the fact that they had totally and completely gotten away with it. Had the video not leaked it's 100% metaphysically certain not only would they have gotten away with it, we wouldn't even know the event happened.

That's a lot of swamp to clear to get to a viable fair verdict.
Yeah, if some good ole boy DA is going to sweep a lynching under the rug for you, destroying your amateur snuff film is probably the least bit of gratitude that is owed.

Luckily these bloodthirsty freaks wanted to brag about their daylight murder, because you're right, they 100% got away with it until the video dropped.
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Old 3rd November 2021, 01:44 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Ah yes the defense is employing the cunning "Just don't let black people on the jury" tactic.

Defense strikes 11 of 12 potential black jurors.

https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/l...JCRRLNVRXIFMY/
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Don't hate the players, hate the game.
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
That's some good racist apologetics there bud. Even for you.
Give me a break. The prosecution certainly wouldn't object to an all-black jury of their choosing. They would probably wet their pants with excitement.
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Old 3rd November 2021, 01:47 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Give me a break. The prosecution certainly wouldn't object to an all-black jury of their choosing. They would probably wet their pants with excitement.
... yes because both sides are equal. Typical troll argument.

"The black guy needed killing" isn't a valid alternative opinion.
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Old 3rd November 2021, 02:03 PM   #103
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Demographically, there needs to be at least four black jurors on the jury in order to reflect the nature of the community. That would be enough to prevent the whiteys from pulling a good ol' boy trick of letting the "lynchin' of the n-word" go unpunished.
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Old 3rd November 2021, 02:08 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Demographically, there needs to be at least four black jurors on the jury in order to reflect the nature of the community. That would be enough to prevent the whiteys from pulling a good ol' boy trick of letting the "lynchin' of the n-word" go unpunished.
All them evil crackers, out to get them porch monkeys, I tell you.
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Old 3rd November 2021, 03:20 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
All them evil crackers, out to get them porch monkeys, I tell you.
That's what the evidence indicates. Even the DA is in on it.
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Old 3rd November 2021, 07:22 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
That's what the evidence indicates. Even the DA is in on it.
He probably didn't even know that the Georgia DA initially involved in this case has been indicted in relation to it

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/02/u...ud-arbery.html

So yeah this cracker, Jackie Jones, may not have been out to get a black man, but she sure as hell did her best to make sure Peckerwood & Son weren't going to go down for murdering one!

Shows how little research he has done into the facts of the case (not that facts matter anyway, right Warp12?).
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Old 3rd November 2021, 07:36 PM   #107
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The former DA was dismissed and charged in the case. What does that have to do with following the legal process of jury selection, now?
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Old 3rd November 2021, 08:34 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Ah yes the defense is employing the cunning "Just don't let black people on the jury" tactic.

Defense strikes 11 of 12 potential black jurors.

https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/l...JCRRLNVRXIFMY/
This is really shady. I watched the hearing challenging the removal of these jurors. It appears there was a pool of 48 jurors with 12 Black jurors. The racial make-up of the county is about 25%, so that is pretty consistent. There were 3 removed by the defense for cause. Of the remaining 9 the defense eliminated 8 with pre-emptive strikes.

The problems are the difficulty in proving discrimination, restrictions on the court, and the publicity and nature of this case. All of these jurors knew at least something about this case or had been affected by it in some way. All of the parties involved have talked to the press and we have seen surveillance video and even a video of the chase and killing itself. Potential jurors are going to have knowledge of the case and have certain opinions.

There is also the issue that his ties into other issues and Black Lives Matter with an unarmed Black man be killed by armed White men, including a former police officer. And the issue with the former office having worked in the DA's office and this getting swept under the rug. That means many of these Black jurors had participated in or supported things like the Run With Maud even or posted other things on social media supporting Ahmaud.

Another problems is that probably almost everything about this case is known and publicly available. Other than some small details, I don't expect any significant new or contradictory evidence to come out at trial. That means many jurors have already formed strong opinions. That gives the defense some reason to strike.

The judge said this is a prima facie case of discrimination and that he believed that the defense was not being genuine with their reasons for the strike. He talked about the limitations on the courts in Georgia and how some other states would allow the court to consider certain factors like which jurors were asked certain questions and how many questions and whether they were striking one juror even though another juror had said the same thing.

He gave the rule he has to follow, and it is basically that he cannot reset a juror if the defense provides at least one reasonably plausible excuse for the strike. In a case like this, probably every juror has that potential. That means the defense can discriminatorily strike while having plausible deniability.

Reading between the lines, the judge basically said he believed the defense was being discriminatory, but there was nothing he could do about it. He seemed rather displeased with his own ruling.
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Old 3rd November 2021, 08:59 PM   #109
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One thing I found odd was that at the hearing they talked about some questions they asked the jurors about citizen's arrest. Are they really going to try the citizen's arrest angle? There is no way this was a legal citizen's arrest. The self defense angle would at least have a chance. Arbery did turn and run at Travis, so maybe they can get a juror to buy that.

To me, putting this as a citizen's arrest makes it worse because the prosecution will explain what that is and what it is not and that this is not a legal citizen's arrest and is therefore false imprisonment, which they are charged with, and that would negate self defense and also mean felony murder. This seems like a chess move for the defense to introduce the concept rather than the law and sacrifice that in order to open an avenue to talking about how they were just trying to be good citizens protecting their neighborhood from someone who was known to be breaking the law trespassing and possibly the neighborhood thief. It seems like a bit of a risky move, but I don't think the defense has a lot of options.
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Old 3rd November 2021, 10:55 PM   #110
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I wonder if this should be moved to Trials and Errors forum now? Maybe starting with post 89?
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Old 4th November 2021, 12:30 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by gabeygoat View Post
I wonder if this should be moved to Trials and Errors forum now? Maybe starting with post 89?
I made a post in the forum section about it. I am reporting it now to request a move.
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Old 4th November 2021, 01:27 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I made a post in the forum section about it. I am reporting it now to request a move.
Can we title it The Last Mile or something?
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Old 5th November 2021, 06:29 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Can we title it The Last Mile or something?
You can pitch it if you'd like....

Naturally, after weeks of not having anything that makes me leave my desk at work, I have to be on-site pretty much all morning. So I believe I'll miss all of the opening statements. Which is fine, I can watch them tonight over a few cocktails. I'm hoping the prosecution comes out strong, and the defense goes Derek Chauvin route and just throw **** at the wall to see what sticks.
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Old 5th November 2021, 07:21 AM   #114
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Just spitballing, but this case doesn't seem nearly as contentious as the Rittenhouse multi-murder. I really, really doubt there's much possibility for acquittal.

Best case scenario is a couple holdouts resulting in mistrial. Then again, this case is big enough you'd expect they would just bring it again. The three killers are currently in jail and that would likely not change if a retrial is sought.

I guess the defenses best hope is to get mistrial after mistrial until the state gives up or offers some kind of plea deal, and that strikes me as very long odds. Given the intense public scrutiny on the open corruption of the previous DA, I think the current prosecutors are going to be very reluctant to offer any deal.
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Old 5th November 2021, 07:31 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
This is really shady. I watched the hearing challenging the removal of these jurors. It appears there was a pool of 48 jurors with 12 Black jurors. The racial make-up of the county is about 25%, so that is pretty consistent. There were 3 removed by the defense for cause. Of the remaining 9 the defense eliminated 8 with pre-emptive strikes.

The problems are the difficulty in proving discrimination, restrictions on the court, and the publicity and nature of this case. All of these jurors knew at least something about this case or had been affected by it in some way. All of the parties involved have talked to the press and we have seen surveillance video and even a video of the chase and killing itself. Potential jurors are going to have knowledge of the case and have certain opinions.
Well my own issue with the prosecution or defense being involved in jury selection at all is well documented, but it seems I am alone in that.
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Old 5th November 2021, 07:35 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I guess the defenses best hope is to get mistrial after mistrial until the state gives up or offers some kind of plea deal, and that strikes me as very long odds. Given the intense public scrutiny on the open corruption of the previous DA, I think the current prosecutors are going to be very reluctant to offer any deal.
I think it's related but slightly different. They are trying to make a final slap on the wrist or even less seem like a "fair compromise."

"Well hell we've compromised and put them on trial even though we didn't want to. Hell I guess if we must we'll make them pick up cans by the side of the road for a few weekends."

And that stupid "Fairness in an unfair situation" will play well to a lot of people, sadly.
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Old 5th November 2021, 07:37 AM   #117
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I never really know what to expect in these cases. To my biased eyes, these people (and Rittenhouse) are obviously guilty.

Then again, we see time and time again there is a tremendous reluctance to hold people accountable for certain types of crimes in this country, and that just doesn't infect the criminal justice system, but the broader public that makes up the jury. I really can't trust my gut here at all, so I'm cautiously prepared to be disappointed.
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Old 5th November 2021, 07:41 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
This is really shady. I watched the hearing challenging the removal of these jurors. It appears there was a pool of 48 jurors with 12 Black jurors. The racial make-up of the county is about 25%, so that is pretty consistent. There were 3 removed by the defense for cause. Of the remaining 9 the defense eliminated 8 with pre-emptive strikes.
ISTM that, for anyone capable of doing the maths, this system appears deliberately designed to give the appearance of lack of racial bias while at the same time making it more or less inevitable that the majority ethnicity of the region is over-represented in any jury, and any and all minorities are under-represented. Given the history of the southern states of the union, I find it hard to dismiss out of hand the possibility that this inbuilt bias is intentional.

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Old 5th November 2021, 07:55 AM   #119
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Yes but a thousand apologists will flood both this thread and the general discourse any second now, demanding a "civil debate" about how we can't prove that racism with the thinnest veneer of plausible deniability is really racism.
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Old 5th November 2021, 08:05 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Yes but a thousand apologists will flood both this thread and the general discourse any second now, demanding a "civil debate" about how we can't prove that racism with the thinnest veneer of plausible deniability is really racism.
The alternative theory, of course, is that nobody involved in the legal system of Georgia has even a rudimentary understanding of simple arithmetic. Systemic racism almost seems like a less embarrassing alternative.

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