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Tags Cuba incidents , Cuba issues , protest incidents

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Old 20th July 2021, 01:07 PM   #41
dann
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Cuban expats and American Cold Warriors seem to think every protest in Cuba is an opportunity for counter revolution.

It is amazing that people who would not for one moment consider that the rioters of Jan. 6 represent the American people insist that the Cubans demonstrating on Sunday, July 11, are the true Cubans unlike the thousands of Cubans rallying in support of Cuba in the days that followed.

It makes me wonder how it will be interpreted when the Cuban vaccination campaign overtakes the USA.
Doses per 100 pop
USA: 101.14 (July 19)
Cuba: 72.62 (July 17)
Vaccinated
USA: 55.71% (July 19)
Cuba: 29.65% (July 17)
Fully vaccinated
USA: 48.28% (July 19)
Cuba: 18.62% (July 17)

Will it be an inspiration to the USA, something to catch up with, like the Sputniks in the late 1950s? Or will it convince unvaccinated Republicans that vaccines are undiluted communism?
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 20th July 2021, 01:37 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Three back to back posts and no response to a plainly stated question. Impressive.
I think he figured out quicker than I did that when you said "let's talk seriously" you meant "let's consider an arbitrary fictional narrative of my own invention".

But okay, sure. Let us talk seriously. You asked a question about whether these protests were the start of something much bigger, or if they would come and go without any significant changes to the regime.

Personally, I think they'll come and go without any major changes - especially if the US government declines to exploit or support them. But I admit I don't have a lot of info and am pretty much just guessing. I couldn't give you a good reason for why I think this.

What's your take? Do you think these protests will escalate to regime change? Why or why not?
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Old 20th July 2021, 01:39 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
You canít see a difference? Good for you, chum.
One obvious difference I can see is that the Trumper isn't defending a totalitarian dictatorship that exists in reality.
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Old 20th July 2021, 01:42 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I think he figured out quicker than I did that when you said "let's talk seriously" you meant "let's consider an arbitrary fictional narrative of my own invention".

But okay, sure. Let us talk seriously. You asked a question about whether these protests were the start of something much bigger, or if they would come and go without any significant changes to the regime.

Personally, I think they'll come and go without any major changes - especially if the US government declines to exploit or support them. But I admit I don't have a lot of info and am pretty much just guessing. I couldn't give you a good reason for why I think this.

What's your take? Do you think these protests will escalate to regime change? Why or why not?
I tend to agree with you. I mostly think these will pass without significant change.

Some of the issues seem more long-term concerns with the Cuban economic system, but all available reporting seem to point out that covid is making things especially difficult. Cuba has developed a vaccine and I would expect it's only a matter of time before it's available in large numbers to help alleviate that stressor. Other articles also mentioned that the global drop in the tourism industry has really put the squeeze on the Cuban economy. I have to assume that too is a shorter term problem.

It's really hard as an American media consumer to figure out what it popular sentiment is really like in Cuba. You don't have to be a tankie to know that US based coverage of Cuban politics is a bit... tilted. This is the same media that incredulously spread the hoax OAS report to justify right wingers to try to steal an election in Bolivia. I have no confidence that English language sources are getting the full story.

I just like to keep some perspective. All of modern history in South America is pretty rough. Lots of strongmen and authoritarian regimes to go around, left and right wing both well represented. An awful lot of authoritarian regimes at work in this historically screwed-over part of the world, but it seems that the ones with a left-wing bent get special attention when it comes to moral condemnation.

I know I engage in a lot of snark here, but I honestly wonder what the people frothing in the mouth about the evils of the Cuban revolution see as a legitimate alternative, both then and now. Seems to me that, as is often the case in South America, there were no good options. You've got the CIA, United Fruit, and recently exiled Batista staring hungrily at the island and sharpening their knives at the mere mention of vaguely left reform. Not exactly an environment that breeds a healthy respect of individual liberty. An authoritarian government was inevitable, the question was weather it was going to be a right wing junta a la Guatemala or Brazil, or one that does land reform and literacy programs.
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Old 20th July 2021, 01:47 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
One obvious difference I can see is that the Trumper isn't defending a totalitarian dictatorship that exists in reality.
Except for the obvious ones Murrica gives a pass to.
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Old 20th July 2021, 02:39 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Except for the obvious ones Murrica gives a pass to.
Same as every other American defends. There's no difference between a Trump defender also "defending" Saudi Arabia, and a Biden defender also "defending" Saudi Arabia. But now we're wandering pretty far off the topic. How about we stick to the Cuban protests, and discussion of whether the Cuban regime is defensible or not.

What's your opinion? Is the Cuban regime worth defending? I think not, but that's mostly knee-jerk. If you've got some good arguments in favor of the regime, I'd be interested in hearing them. Especially if your arguments inform our opinions about the legitimacy of the protests.
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Old 20th July 2021, 02:42 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
It is amazing that people who would not for one moment consider that the rioters of Jan. 6 represent the American people insist that the Cubans demonstrating on Sunday, July 11, are the true Cubans unlike the thousands of Cubans rallying in support of Cuba in the days that followed.

It makes me wonder how it will be interpreted when the Cuban vaccination campaign overtakes the USA.
Doses per 100 pop
USA: 101.14 (July 19)
Cuba: 72.62 (July 17)
Vaccinated
USA: 55.71% (July 19)
Cuba: 29.65% (July 17)
Fully vaccinated
USA: 48.28% (July 19)
Cuba: 18.62% (July 17)

Will it be an inspiration to the USA, something to catch up with, like the Sputniks in the late 1950s? Or will it convince unvaccinated Republicans that vaccines are undiluted communism?
A small, centrally-governed island police state is probably always going to have better vaccination numbers than a transcontinental, federalized liberal democracy. On paper, if nowhere else.
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Old 20th July 2021, 02:48 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Same as every other American defends. There's no difference between a Trump defender also "defending" Saudi Arabia, and a Biden defender also "defending" Saudi Arabia. But now we're wandering pretty far off the topic. How about we stick to the Cuban protests, and discussion of whether the Cuban regime is defensible or not.

What's your opinion? Is the Cuban regime worth defending? I think not, but that's mostly knee-jerk. If you've got some good arguments in favor of the regime, I'd be interested in hearing them. Especially if your arguments inform our opinions about the legitimacy of the protests.
I think the embargo and USAsian knee-jerk freedomz response, salted by Miami politics is a theatre of absurdity. The occupation of Guantanamo Bay and its prison is another gaping hole in the nationís flimsy moral facade.
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Old 20th July 2021, 02:50 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
It is amazing that people who would not for one moment consider that the rioters of Jan. 6 represent the American people insist that the Cubans demonstrating on Sunday, July 11, are the true Cubans unlike the thousands of Cubans rallying in support of Cuba in the days that followed.
Perhaps the Cuban protestors weren't "everyday Cubans."
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Old 20th July 2021, 02:51 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
A small, centrally-governed island police state is probably always going to have better vaccination numbers than a transcontinental, federalized liberal democracy. On paper, if nowhere else.
Those better numbers are very precise, being calculated to the hundredth of a percent, too.
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Old 20th July 2021, 03:10 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
I think the embargo and USAsian knee-jerk freedomz response, salted by Miami politics is a theatre of absurdity. The occupation of Guantanamo Bay and its prison is another gaping hole in the nationís flimsy moral facade.
Neat! Now tell me something I don't know. Like your opinion on the defensibility of the Cuban regime and the legitimacy of the recent protests.
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Old 20th July 2021, 03:11 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
A small, centrally-governed island police state is probably always going to have better vaccination numbers than a transcontinental, federalized liberal democracy. On paper, if nowhere else.
I would agree Cuba has far too many people locked up in prisons for anyone that cares about human liberty to be comfortable with.

Wikipedia lists them #6 in per capita prison rate, far too close to USA's #1 slot.

ETA: El Salvador ranks #2. What a difference having a successful US-backed counter revolution makes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rceration_rate
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Old 20th July 2021, 03:12 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
Just like in Belarus and other police states, every visible public protest shows cracks in the system.

BTW, there's nothing counter-revolutionary in attacking a decades-old entrenched system. It's part of the BS left-wing nostalgia that still tries to pass of Cuba as laid-back Latino socialism with rum and rhumba.
Remember how Chavez was going to lead Venezuela into the Marxist Promised Land?
Real problem is too many on the hard left just cannot admit that Marxism has failed miserably wherever tried;I am not talking about other forms of socialism.
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Old 20th July 2021, 03:17 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
I think the embargo and USAsian knee-jerk freedomz response, salted by Miami politics is a theatre of absurdity. The occupation of Guantanamo Bay and its prison is another gaping hole in the nation’s flimsy moral facade.
You hate the US. We get it, comrade, we get it.
Still bitter over Bernie not winning?
I could talk about the flimsy moral facade of sombody who will defend ruthless authoratiran regimes provided they have a "socialist" ideology, ....
And nice attempt to deflect. Worthy of a Trumpster.
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Old 20th July 2021, 03:21 PM   #55
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I got a feeling thatif they lived in the 1930's a number of people here would be singing the praises of Uncle Joe, who was herorically leading the Soviet People into the Workers Paradise.
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Old 20th July 2021, 03:46 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I got a feeling thatif they lived in the 1930's a number of people here would be singing the praises of Uncle Joe, who was herorically leading the Soviet People into the Workers Paradise.
And bravely leading the fight against the totalitarian police states that were about to take over large chunks of Europe and enslave them for the next fifty years.
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Old 20th July 2021, 05:05 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
You hate the US. We get it, comrade, we get it.
Still bitter over Bernie not winning?
I could talk about the flimsy moral facade of sombody who will defend ruthless authoratiran regimes provided they have a "socialist" ideology, ....
And nice attempt to deflect. Worthy of a Trumpster.
Multiple ad homs, as well as a strawman and a tu quoque in one sentence. Love your work.
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Old 20th July 2021, 05:06 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I got a feeling thatif they lived in the 1930's a number of people here would be singing the praises of Uncle Joe, who was herorically leading the Soviet People into the Workers Paradise.
Your meta commentary is a highlight of the politics forums.
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Old 20th July 2021, 06:09 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Your meta commentary is a highlight of the politics forums.
I keep on forgetting arguing with a hard line ideologue is just like arguing with a hard line Religiious believer.
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Old 20th July 2021, 06:29 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I keep on forgetting arguing with a hard line ideologue is just like arguing with a hard line Religiious believer.
Thatís the stuff. And without a hint of irony!
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Old 20th July 2021, 08:54 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
One obvious difference I can see is that the Trumper isn't defending a totalitarian dictatorship that exists in reality.

You mean a totalitarian dictatorship where they use bone saws to deal with critics?
Trump fixated on bone saw used in Jamal Khashoggi killing and joked about it, official says (Independent, July 8, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 20th July 2021, 10:41 PM   #62
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Quote:
The assessment points out that while protests broke out on the island due to shortages of basic necessities, the decades-long illegal blockade on Cuba ceased to be part of the narrative of the media.

Meanwhile - he added - due to the blockade and Covid19, the island's economy contracted further; however, the US government also continued its funding of anti-government groups, only their intentions are not democratic, despite what the mainstream propaganda spreads.
Analysts criticize Biden's policy towards Cuba (Prensa Latina, July 20, 2021)
Based on Bidenís Policy on Cuba Reveals Itself (Strategic Culture Foundation, July 17, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 21st July 2021, 02:46 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
A small, centrally-governed island police state is probably always going to have better vaccination numbers than a transcontinental, federalized liberal democracy. On paper, if nowhere else.
I don't know about police states, but Cuba doesn't have better vaccination numbers than your "transcontinental, federalized liberal democracy" ... yet, but they seem to be getting there.

Quote:
On paper, if nowhere else.

Why does it offend you so much whenever reality shows that your "transcontinental, federalized liberal democracy" is so chockfull of science deniers that it can't even persuade a majority of the population to get vaccinated against a deadly and debilitating disease?
You were also in denial about this fact when I pointed out that Denmark was overtaking the USA in vaccinations in spite of the USA being off to a marvelous start six months ago, and you never responded when I showed how wrong you are.
Simply claiming the superiority of your "transcontinental, federalized liberal democracy" seems to be enough for you and there's no reason to try to back your attitude up with documentation. Documentation is "on paper" unlike your delusions, which represent your one and only reality, which real-world numbers shouldn't be allowed to pollute.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 21st July 2021, 02:57 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Those better numbers are very precise, being calculated to the hundredth of a percent, too.

That is how they are presented on a Danish webpage about vaccinations. Not just the Cuban numbers, but also the US and Danish numbers are presented in this way:
Se vaccinen blive rullet ud: SŚ langt er Danmark og resten af verden Go to --> SŚ mange er vaccinerede i de forskellige lande (DR.dk)

In the case of Denmark, you even get the percentage "to the hundredth of a percent" of vaccinations in different age groups: --> Vaccinerede i aldersgrupper
Age 80-89: First jab 99.55%. Fully vaccinated 98.83%.
What is your problem with that?
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

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Old 21st July 2021, 03:10 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I got a feeling thatif they lived in the 1930's a number of people here would be singing the praises of Uncle Joe, who was herorically leading the Soviet People into the Workers Paradise.

You mean, unlike the praises of Uncle Sam and the alleged land of the free and the home of the brave?
I never see anybody but you and your ilk refer to Cuba as a workers' Paradise. Not even in the most bombastic Cuban national anthems (and national anthems are almost always bombastic) have I seen Cuba referred to as any kind of paradise. (Cuba's actual national anthem is mostly about the war against Spain!)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 21st July 2021, 04:49 AM   #66
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The ironic thing is that lifting the embargo would probably do a lot to pressure Cuba into reforms.

The wealth and cultural splendor of America changes more hearts and hearts and minds than any hard-line military tactic or CIA death squad ever will. Netflix, Coca-cola, and all our other cultural outputs are probably the best propaganda outlet this country has and we're shutting Cuba off from this through the foolish embargo. There's a reason why authoritarian systems try to shut out these kinds of cultural products and luxuries, giving people a taste of the good life is absolutely corrosive to that model of government.

Cuba is in desperate need of reform and to step away from an authoritarian model, which is never going to happen so long as the bloodthirsty American wolves are howling at their doors. Our history of violent intervention in South America, and specifically our attempts to murder and terrorize the Cuban people into "democracy", makes the US probably the least suitable party to convince Cuba that a better option is available. A credible promise that the US wouldn't invade, coup, embargo, or otherwise unduly interfere in Cuba would probably be a great first step towards improving the political and economic situation on the island.

It must be hard for Cubans to lower the draw bridge when they know America is just going to prop up any genocidal strongman that is sufficiently anti-communist the first chance we get.
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Old 21st July 2021, 08:51 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The ironic thing is that lifting the embargo would probably do a lot to pressure Cuba into reforms.
Let me guess: This is because Cubans are greedy idiots who are easily swayed by the toxic consumption culture pushed by the vile and corrupt billionaires that emerge in late-stage capitalism?

Quote:
The wealth and cultural splendor of America changes more hearts and hearts and minds than any hard-line military tactic or CIA death squad ever will. Netflix, Coca-cola, and all our other cultural outputs are probably the best propaganda outlet this country has and we're shutting Cuba off from this through the foolish embargo. There's a reason why authoritarian systems try to shut out these kinds of cultural products and luxuries, giving people a taste of the good life is absolutely corrosive to that model of government.
So it is because Cubans are greedy idiots who are easily swayed by the toxic consumption culture pushed by the vile and corrupt billionaires that emerge in late-stage capitalism.

Quote:
Cuba is in desperate need of reform and to step away from an authoritarian model, which is never going to happen so long as the bloodthirsty American wolves are howling at their doors. Our history of violent intervention in South America, and specifically our attempts to murder and terrorize the Cuban people into "democracy", makes the US probably the least suitable party to convince Cuba that a better option is available. A credible promise that the US wouldn't invade, coup, embargo, or otherwise unduly interfere in Cuba would probably be a great first step towards improving the political and economic situation on the island.
But none of this matters, because Cubans are greedy idiots who are easily swayed by the toxic consumption culture pushed by the vile and corrupt billionaires that emerge in late-stage capitalism.

Quote:
It must be hard for Cubans to lower the draw bridge when they know America is just going to prop up any genocidal strongman that is sufficiently anti-communist the first chance we get.
But if we lower the drawbridge, they'll forget all about that existential threat, and fall in line like good little consumers. Because Cubans are greedy idiots who are easily swayed by the toxic consumption culture pushed by the vile and corrupt billionaires that emerge in late-stage capitalism.

---

Wasn't the whole point of the Communist revolution that capitalism looks good on the outside, but is a hollow shell of fat cats and wage slavery? Have the Cubans really forgotten all about that in just one or two generations?

I also find it ironic that the one thing Communist Cuba must have to survive is free trade with the world's foremost capitalist pigdog economy.

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Old 21st July 2021, 09:43 AM   #68
SuburbanTurkey
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Let me guess: This is because Cubans are greedy idiots who are easily swayed by the toxic consumption culture pushed by the vile and corrupt billionaires that emerge in late-stage capitalism?


So it is because Cubans are greedy idiots who are easily swayed by the toxic consumption culture pushed by the vile and corrupt billionaires that emerge in late-stage capitalism.


But none of this matters, because Cubans are greedy idiots who are easily swayed by the toxic consumption culture pushed by the vile and corrupt billionaires that emerge in late-stage capitalism.


But if we lower the drawbridge, they'll forget all about that existential threat, and fall in line like good little consumers. Because Cubans are greedy idiots who are easily swayed by the toxic consumption culture pushed by the vile and corrupt billionaires that emerge in late-stage capitalism.

---

Wasn't the whole point of the Communist revolution that capitalism looks good on the outside, but is a hollow shell of fat cats and wage slavery? Have the Cubans really forgotten all about that in just one or two generations?

I also find it ironic that the one thing Communist Cuba must have to survive is free trade with the world's foremost capitalist pigdog economy.
Not sure why you're trying to put words in my mouth. Cubans are people and are no less or more materially motivated than anyone else. If they could have a taste of the splendor of the free market, without United Fruit or whatever turning the island into a corporate owned neo-plantation, I imagine that would be very compelling.

Might work better than continuing with the embargo. Hard to say it's been effective after 60 years.

Fidel is dead. America doesn't have to admit defeat to their longtime nemesis if they wanted to try something different.

Quote:
But if we lower the drawbridge, they'll forget all about that existential threat, and fall in line like good little consumers. Because Cubans are greedy idiots who are easily swayed by the toxic consumption culture pushed by the vile and corrupt billionaires that emerge in late-stage capitalism.
Snarky comment aside, you raise a good question. I'm not sure what, if anything, the US could do to actually persuade Cubans that we're operating in good faith and not trying to back some CIA death squad takeover. Our well earned reputation on this matter is hard to shake. It would probably take a long time of good-faith diplomacy for relationships to normalize.

I doubt that Cubans will ever totally forget the lessons of the revolution. Even if they abandon an authoritarian communist model, I imagine they might cling to left wing principles that remain extremely popular even today. Unless, of course, unrestrained free markets are foisted about them via a CIA-backed death squad government of genocidal anti-leftists.
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Old 21st July 2021, 10:44 AM   #69
dann
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
With a population of 11 million people -- thirty times smaller than the United States -- Cuba is now recording more new Covid-19 cases per day then in the U.S. .

The most recent vaccination news out of Cuba:
Quote:
- In May, 3.4 million doses of anti-COVID vaccines were delivered to the Ministry of Public Health; in June, 4.8 million, and in July there will be close to six million.
- Cuba has surpassed the world average for the percentage of the population which has received at least one dose, in spite of difficulties encountered in acquiring supplies.
- Cuba has the world's highest rate of vaccination per day per 100 inhabitants.
- By the end of August, some 60% of the population will be fully vaccinated.
- By this same date, 80% of our population will have at least one dose of either Sovereign 0.2 or Abdala.
How is vaccination against COVID-19 advancing in Cuba? (Granma.cu, July 20, 2021)

Both Soberana 02 and Abdala require three jabs.
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 21st July 2021, 10:55 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Not sure why you're trying to put words in my mouth. Cubans are people and are no less or more materially motivated than anyone else. If they could have a taste of the splendor of the free market, without United Fruit or whatever turning the island into a corporate owned neo-plantation, I imagine that would be very compelling.

Might work better than continuing with the embargo. Hard to say it's been effective after 60 years.

Fidel is dead. America doesn't have to admit defeat to their longtime nemesis if they wanted to try something different.
Fair enough. I apologize.

Quote:
Snarky comment aside, you raise a good question. I'm not sure what, if anything, the US could do to actually persuade Cubans that we're operating in good faith and not trying to back some CIA death squad takeover. Our well earned reputation on this matter is hard to shake. It would probably take a long time of good-faith diplomacy for relationships to normalize.

I doubt that Cubans will ever totally forget the lessons of the revolution. Even if they abandon an authoritarian communist model, I imagine they might cling to left wing principles that remain extremely popular even today. Unless, of course, unrestrained free markets are foisted about them via a CIA-backed death squad government of genocidal anti-leftists.
Good points.
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Old 22nd July 2021, 05:14 AM   #71
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Boat parade. Boat parade! I wanna go to the boat parade!

BOAT PARADE

Quote:
It appears the Miami Cuban Support Flotilla is happening after all. Departing this Friday from Key West, after the Coast Guard does a safety check on all vessels. They plan to be 15 nautical miles from Havana.
https://twitter.com/BiancaJoanie/sta...07526654377987

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Old 22nd July 2021, 08:56 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
I can see why Biden would want to score a propaganda victory by giving some of the vaccines that the Americans don't seem to want to Cuba instead, but lifting the blockade that prevents the country from buying medical supplies would be an actual help.

I have recently donated a couple of hundred $ to the Danish campaign to send syringes to Cuba. Cuba has the vaccines to fill those syringes.

Support the campaign to break the US blockade and send syringes to the people of Cuba! (CodePink)

Apparently, there are enough people in the world who actually want to help the Cubans to make a difference:

Quote:
When it became clear the island wouldn’t manage on its own, aid organizations in the U.S. and Europe sprang into action. They launched campaigns to collect donations to buy syringes and have them shipped to the island to help narrow a deficit of as many as 25 million syringes.
The response in just little over a month has been “phenomenal,” according to Global Health Partners, a New York-based NGO that’s leading the Saving Lives campaign. Others in Spain, Italy and Latin American nations like Argentina and Honduras have also contributed. Cubans living abroad launched campaigns in cities all over the world, and in Miami a caravan against the U.S. embargo last month also collected local donations.
(Miami Herald, June 18, 2021)

It turns out that some Americans do help the Cubans - unlike Biden, Cruz and Rubio:

Quote:
Just as the U.S. movement in solidarity with Cuba reports announces the shipment of six million syringes for vaccination against COVID-19, the U.S. Agency for International Development announces that, in order to access the latest two million dollars allocated for subversion in Cuba, mercenaries must adapt their "proposals" to reflect events that occurred here July 11
(...)
In the meantime, as of July 17, some two million syringes have reached the port of Mariel, just west of Havana, from the Cuba solidarity movement in the United States - an act of love organized by Global Health Partners, with the participation of Cuban-Americans and several solidarity groups, who are continuing to collect funds to send medications, including antibiotics, painkillers, contraceptives and vitamins.
The people of the United States send syringes to save lives, while their government promotes chaos in Cuba (Granma.cu, July 22, 2021)

I think that Cuba will soon have enough syringes to immunize not only all the Cubans but also the Venezuelans, the Vietnamese and hopefully people in many other poor countries as well.

Cuba Solidarity Committee Donates over 275 Syringes (InsiderNJ, July 12, 2021)
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 22nd July 2021, 09:29 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
"Communism is a great system. Only problem is the right people have not tried it."

Back in the 1930's you would have been eagerly defending Uncle Joe, no doubt.
Sigh. You could try and answer ST's actual points, not introduce your own strawmen.
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Old 22nd July 2021, 10:07 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Sigh. You could try and answer ST's actual points, not introduce your own strawmen.
Not really his idiom. Now imagine trying to make levelheaded and reasonable conservative arguments, and being met with exactly the same behavior. And then realizing that when it comes to conservatism, dudalb's attitude is an accurate representation of that entire side of the debate, here.

Seems like the shoe pinches a bit when it's on the other foot, too.
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Old 23rd July 2021, 02:43 AM   #75
dann
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Levelheaded and reasonable conservative arguments seem to consist in nothing but the idea that the USA is wonderful and confronting anything else on Earth with this line of wishful thinking while making up contrasting assumptions about any other place on Earth whenever the reality of the USA doesn't live up to the ideal, be that place Cuba, as in this thread, or even Denmark in others.
It is probably the reason why your arguments hardly ever contain references to actual reality. Presenting your fantasies seems to be enough to make you think that you have delivered an actual argument.
When confronted with reality, the delusion of the so-called "levelheaded and reasonable conservative arguments" goes into self-preservation mode and simply ignores it.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 23rd July 2021, 02:48 AM   #76
dann
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Correction:
Originally Posted by dann View Post
The 275 syringes should, of course, have been 275,000. I don't know what happened to the K!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 23rd July 2021, 10:03 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Levelheaded and reasonable conservative arguments seem to consist in nothing but the idea that the USA is wonderful and confronting anything else on Earth with this line of wishful thinking while making up contrasting assumptions about any other place on Earth whenever the reality of the USA doesn't live up to the ideal, be that place Cuba, as in this thread, or even Denmark in others.
It is probably the reason why your arguments hardly ever contain references to actual reality. Presenting your fantasies seems to be enough to make you think that you have delivered an actual argument.
When confronted with reality, the delusion of the so-called "levelheaded and reasonable conservative arguments" goes into self-preservation mode and simply ignores it.
Q.E.D.
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Old 23rd July 2021, 10:53 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
A System modeled after that of the old Soviet Union fails badly. Whatta surprise.
But I though Cuba had such a great health care system?

A System modeled after that of old England failed and failed and failed badly. Whatta surprise.
But I thought America had such a great health care system?
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Old 24th July 2021, 06:31 AM   #79
dann
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Boat parade. Boat parade! I wanna go to the boat parade!

There would have been plenty of room for you if you'd had a boat: Five boats head to international waters in flotilla to show support for Cuban people (CBS News, July 23, 2021)

Quote:
Five boats left the Bayside marina just before 8 a.m. Friday.
Small Flotilla Leaves Miami to Show Support for Cuban People (U.S.News, July 23, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 25th July 2021, 01:55 AM   #80
dann
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If you click on any of the English-language articles in Granma.cu that I posted above, you will notice that there is no connection. All the foreign-language versions of Granma - English, French, German, Portuguese, Italian - have been inaccessible since yesterday. The Spanish version is still OK.
I don't know if this is part of Biden's information war or what has caused this.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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