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Old 21st September 2021, 12:19 PM   #121
plague311
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
But they didn't know anyone had been killed at the time, and, to be really strict about it, it's not even certain now. And, no, people drive other peoples cars all the freaking time. You just have to have the papers that the police will use to make sure the car isn't reported stolen (and they don't even check that all the time).
My stepson and I don't have the same last name, and he drives my vehicle all the time. I don't think they've ever given him static, called me, or anything like that, when he's gotten pulled over. Which he has been, several times.
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Old 21st September 2021, 12:20 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
He took another person's vehicle thousands of miles away from her. Why wouldn't it be a valid charge, in the U.S. or the UK?
Who has standing to allege theft? The owner, yes? If she owned the van, then there's really no way to arrest him for theft of the van.
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Old 21st September 2021, 12:21 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Alt+F4 View Post
According to The New York Times:

"Before Mr. Laundrie went missing, Mr. Taylor (North Port Police) said the police had no reason to arrest him after he returned to Florida in the van, which is registered to Ms. Petito and had not been reported stolen.

“The reality of that situation is that it was a common-use vehicle between the two of them,” Mr. Taylor said. The state law does not allow the police to arrest Mr. Laundrie any more than it allows for the arrest of a teenager found driving his or her parents’ car, he said."

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/17/u...by-petito.html
That seems to blow that idea, then.
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Old 21st September 2021, 12:22 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Who has standing to allege theft? The owner, yes? If she owned the van, then there's really no way to arrest him for theft of the van.
Hypothetically, not that it would matter in the grand scheme of things, but if he is found to have killed her, would that change? Would it just be like a "possession of stolen property" type of deal? It did cross state lines multiple times. He won't be getting out of prison either way, so I doubt they'd bother. Interesting to think about though.
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Old 21st September 2021, 12:24 PM   #125
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Deleted - I am reading this thread, and I don't want to ruin that by joining the conversation.
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Old 21st September 2021, 12:25 PM   #126
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I am interested in the theories people have that would not include "foul play".

Of course, everyone is supposed to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. But if this case isn't setting off some warning buzzers for most rational people, I would be surprised.
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Old 21st September 2021, 12:26 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Butter! View Post
Ffs you guys.

I hope none of you are on the jury if my bf ever kills me.

All cops may be bad (according to that philosophy), but so are all ******* people who murder their intimate partners, fail to report their deaths, or strand them in the wilderness to die.

"He feared for his life because she was abusive!" He had a million opportunities to report the situation after he was safely away from her.

He sucks, and it's so weird to see people claiming that nothing he's done is suspicious.
And I thought that he hit her when the police were called before. I can't imagine she was any more of a threat than he was.
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Old 21st September 2021, 12:27 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I am interested in the theories people have that would not include "foul play".

Of course, everyone is supposed to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. But if this case isn't setting off some warning buzzers for most rational people, I would be surprised.
I'm not sure what you mean. Like, wolves ate her or something?
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Old 21st September 2021, 12:29 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
He took another person's vehicle thousands of miles away from her. Why wouldn't it be a valid charge, in the U.S. or the UK?
Theft in the UK requires the intent to permanently deprive the owner, this was his girl friend’s van doubt a prosecution case could be made that would stand up.
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Old 21st September 2021, 12:31 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I'm not sure what you mean. Like, wolves ate her or something?
Like, what reasonable scenarios do people envision that would not include "foul play"? I don't believe she was eaten by wolves, and then the gentlemen bolted in the van, tbh. Do you?
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Old 21st September 2021, 12:36 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Like, what reasonable scenarios do people envision that would not include "foul play"? I don't believe she was eaten by wolves, and then the gentlemen bolted in the van, tbh. Do you?
No, I think he killed her. I think if he was petty enough to slap her a few times because she cleaned the van too frequently and got after him for dirty shoes, then it's not a stretch at all to think she pissed him off and he killed her.

They didn't have a history of any violence between the two (previous to the trip, that I have heard, I may be wrong, and am, frequently) but things change pretty quick when you're in a van all day, err day with each other.

I've been married for almost 10 years, and I don't spend all day, err day with my wife, and if she was gone for longer than a full evening I'd be on the phone with the cops, going door to door, interviewing her co-workers and spamming every form of social media I can find. I can't think of any non-foul play scenario here.
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Old 21st September 2021, 12:38 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Like, what reasonable scenarios do people envision that would not include "foul play"? I don't believe she was eaten by wolves, and then the gentlemen bolted in the van, tbh. Do you?
I'll preface this by saying I agree with the general notion that this is extremely suspicious, and it seems very likely that it was in fact a murder.

But one could conceive of a reason why he would just up and leave without it being murder.

By all reports, they were having some heated domestic fights during their trip. It's entirely possible that the woman committed suicide in the aftermath of such a catastrophic, emotional fight, or that she was so enraged with the fiance that she just went hoofing it into the bush. It's also possible that they got into a big fight and the dude murdered her and ditched the body, or took the van and left her in the bush to die of exposure.

It's entirely possible that the fiance did not think she was dead when he left, however unlikely.

Would it even be a crime for him to fail to report if he knew she killed herself? Scummy as hell, but actually a crime?
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Old 21st September 2021, 12:39 PM   #133
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Put me down for he has taken his own life. I don't think they will find him alive either.
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Old 21st September 2021, 12:41 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Alt+F4 View Post
She never reported the van stolen. As for talking with the police, why couldn't he just give them a written statement, supervised by his lawyer?
Well d'uh, she was dead.
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Old 21st September 2021, 12:44 PM   #135
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None of them fall into "likely" but there's a few scenarios bouncing around in my head that are at least "not crazy impossible and don't require magic and/or multiple 1 in a gazillion rare occurrences to happen."

Cards on the table, just playing the odds on a statistical level Gabby Petito's death being a violent act at the hands of Brian Laundrie is the most likely. Again this is just pure, straight playing the odds, nothing more, nothing less.

Extremely less likely scenarios include.

- Suicide/accidental death followed by stupid panic on Laundrie's part.
- Mutual suicide. Again we don't know Laundrie's status right now.
- A third party. Again not likely given the scenario, but again we don't know Laundrie's status.
- Laundrie is the victim of Petito's violence. This is pretty out there but within a sliver of the realm of possibility again since we don't know Laundrie's status.

To answer a question asked I can't really imagine a fully non-violent scenario. And if/when Laundrie is found alive (or found dead and it can be established that he died a significant period of time after Petito) then I'm out of idea that aren't "Yeah he did it."
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Old 21st September 2021, 12:44 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Okay I think I see the problem.

We're talking about an actual case involving actual humans involving actual pain and suffering that's happening in the real actual world.

Everyone who is writing a detached PolySci 101 think piece about some trolley problem about the hypothetically perfect way the police/public/suspects should interact in a frictionless vacuum over an infinite plane of uniform gravity, take it elsewhere.
Not demanding that the police just sweat some guy until he confesses to a crime is not a trolly problem question. The consequences of naive people agreeing to talk to the cops, who have a variety of sophisticated and pseudoscientific ways to get people to confess to crimes, are well understood.
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Old 21st September 2021, 02:17 PM   #137
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News conference from the FBI office, manner of death, "Homicide".
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Old 21st September 2021, 02:41 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
News conference from the FBI office, manner of death, "Homicide".
Leaving the body or comitting the crime on Federal Land was a big mistake;that made it a federal offense. Now he has the feds on his tail.
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Old 21st September 2021, 02:42 PM   #139
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Let's be honest; we are all enjoying playing Sherlock Holmes with this case.
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Old 21st September 2021, 02:47 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
So if he says "lawyer", and the cops bring in his lawyer, they no longer get to say any words to him at all ever? They can't hold him, they can't state the evidence they have, none of that? The guy just says "lawyer" and then nothing else ever happens, ever unless there's an airtight case?

**** I'm with Joe, how the hell does anything get done in the cop world? Also, I have a complaint to file because my defense attorney and I sat and listened to the cops for awhile. Then they took me back into holding. I got ******* hosed and lawyer was with me! Time for me to file some lawsuits.

If he says "lawyer," and the cops do continue talking to him, and he makes incriminating statements or even confesses, that evidence is not admissible in court. Furthermore, any additional evidence the police obtain as a result of those statements (such as a body he told them where to find) is also not admissible, as "fruit of the poisoned tree." Since such admissions could be a deliberate legal ploy on the suspect's part to make the most incriminating evidence against him inadmissible, it's in the police's interest not to continue talking to him.

(I am not a lawyer. If you rely on what I've said here and end up in the slammer for life, don't go blaming me.)
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Old 21st September 2021, 02:53 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The consequences of naive people agreeing to talk to the cops, who have a variety of sophisticated and pseudoscientific ways to get people to confess to crimes, are well understood.
And many times, that is a great thing. This vid is a brilliant example (nearly 3 hour interrogation):

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

I commend such talented detectives. Of course some people are so dumb that it takes much less work to get the truth out of them.
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Old 21st September 2021, 02:56 PM   #142
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To agree with some others here, I am pretty sure this guy is dead. But holding out hope that he isn't.
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Old 21st September 2021, 03:09 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
To agree with some others here, I am pretty sure this guy is dead. But holding out hope that he isn't.
Why do you care?
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Old 21st September 2021, 03:13 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Why do you care?
Because I choose to.
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Old 21st September 2021, 03:14 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
News conference from the FBI office, manner of death, "Homicide".
All he has to do is tell them he's a physician for Olympic gymnasts, and they'll keep him out of jail for a couple more years at least.
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Old 21st September 2021, 03:25 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Leaving the body or comitting the crime on Federal Land was a big mistake;that made it a federal offense. Now he has the feds on his tail.
Because they always get their man?
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Old 21st September 2021, 03:25 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Why do you care? : confused :
Two obvious reasons:

One, if he's dead that removes probably the best source if info about what happened. Curiosity about that is legit, so naturally I care about that.

Two, my sense of justice does not recognize karma or suicide as valid agents. If he's guilty, I want punishment through due process, not... whatever this is.
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Old 21st September 2021, 03:37 PM   #148
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It appears not everyone remembers some facts correctly:

As for domestic violence, the body cam video recorded on August 12, when they were pulled over in Utah, near the entrance to the Arches National Park, revealed that SHE had been violent to HIM - he was the victim, and was actually lightly injured as a result. The cops there deliberated whether they should arrest HER, but decided to be nice.

Now that we have an autopsy result that says "homicide", there are now logically two possibilities as to who dunnit:
  1. Either Laundrie dunnit - certainly very much plausible, especially given the rocky relationship (her staying in a hotel in SLC several nights does not indicate that things got much better after the Aug 12 incident)
  2. Or some third party dunnit. This is of course not impossible - here is a scenario that is, if not likely, then also not completely whacky: They had yet another dispute. As on August 12, he tries to drive off without her, and this time pulls through. She storms off into the bushes, he returns, can't find her, gets frustrated, decides to drive home. He expects that eventually she will call. In the meantime, she realizes she is stranded. It appears they were not in a totally remote wilderness - there was a road that people used, so maybe she tried to get help - but ended up in the hands of her eventual murderer! Some time goes by, she doesn't call - and Laundrie realizes something probably went majorly wrong; he lawyers up, shuts up under the assumptions that whatever may have happened to her could get at least partially blamed on him; her family reports her missing. He feels more and more guilty and sorry, and the public interest freaks him out, so he goes into hiding, seeing that he is not arrested and free to go wherever he pleases.

Ok, that's a just-so story - but not impossible, right? Wouldn't be the first woman traveling alone and in need to fall prey to a coincidental perpetrator.
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Old 21st September 2021, 03:42 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Edited by xjx388:  Removed moderated content
Are you unaware of the problem of compelled false confessions?

Quote:
The Reid technique is a method of interrogation. The system was developed in the United States by John E. Reid in the 1950s. Reid was a psychologist, polygraph expert, and former Chicago police officer. The technique is known for creating a high pressure environment for the interviewee, followed by sympathy and offers of understanding and help, but only if a confession is forthcoming. Since its spread in the 1960s, it has been a mainstay of police procedure, especially in the United States.

Proponents of the Reid technique say it is useful in extracting information from otherwise unwilling suspects. Critics say the technique results in an unacceptably high rate of false confessions, especially from juveniles and the mentally impaired. Criticism has also been leveled in the opposite case — that against strong-willed interviewees, the technique causes them to stop talking and give no information whatsoever, rather than elicit lies that can be checked against for the guilty or exonerating details for the innocent
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reid_technique

Manipulative interrogation techniques was famously used to produce false confessions against the Central Park Five, a group of teenagers that were later exonerated of rape by DNA evidence.

Innocent people should not agree to interviews with the cops if they think you committed a crime, there's way too much risk they'll talk you into falsely confessing to something.

As it stands now, this is exactly the kind of case where there's a high motive to work over the believed criminal to elicit a confession. There's huge amounts of public pressure to close the case, everyone "knows" he's guilty, concrete physical evidence is very slim (as of yet), and most evidence tying the alleged killer to the crime is circumstantial.
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Old 21st September 2021, 05:36 PM   #150
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I'm just not sure how much doubt is appropriate. There are so many cases a year that extreme things occur.

two examples

1) A couple years back the Innocence project asked to test DNA in a case where everyone swore it was impossible for the killer to climb a hill ,commit murder, and get back to his car in the time window. DNA confirmed he did it.

2) Here in Arizona,a woman was arrested when she came back to her car, the cops found a human shaped imprint on the hood of her car, and there was a hit and run victim down the street. Security camera confirmed that while she was at the bar, a random pedestrian decided to pro wrestling elbow drop the hood of her car for no reason.... completely separate from the hit and run down the street.

So I have no idea how one should regard the situation.

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Old 21st September 2021, 06:54 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Because they always get their man?
Because they have essentially infinite resources.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 01:10 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I don't really get the idea that him lawyering up or hiding from this media frenzy is proof of guilt.
It isn't that he wasn't talking to cop, but that he wasn't talking at all. He went off with a girl in her van and came back alone with no explanation. That is obviously suspicious.

It is not proof of guilt. It is a refutation proof of guilt.

I would certainly recommend not talking to the police without a lawyer. But when you get a lawyer...it gets complicated.

The suspicion here is not about talking to police, but that he went out into the woods with her and came home alone in her van with no explanation and that nobody could contact her. He didn't even tell her family or friends that he had come back alone.

A person has a right to remain silent. There are legitimate reasons to do so. But that does not apply to every case.

The rule to not talk to cops is not a hard fast rule. And especially not for lawyers representing someone. There are times to say things and not say other things or only say certain things. The "internet" concept of never talking to police is only vaguely true.

In this case, not talking at the very minimum rightfully pushed suspicion to him killing her.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 01:28 AM   #153
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The possible cases where he didn't kill her are near zero. He killed her.

He is now either dead or in hiding. If he did go out hiking in that reserve, there is little chance he is still alive. Locals have said staying alive out there for a week in the best conditions is difficult. The very heavy rains flooded it making it almost impossible. If he ran out from there, someone would probably have identified him

He is either hiding with some family, or more likely dead. I expect dead. Which is unfortunate because then we will never no what really happened and why it happened.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 02:45 AM   #154
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Coroner report is that it was her and it was homicide.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 03:06 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Are you unaware of the problem of compelled false confessions?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reid_technique

Manipulative interrogation techniques was famously used to produce false confessions against the Central Park Five, a group of teenagers that were later exonerated of rape by DNA evidence.

Innocent people should not agree to interviews with the cops if they think you committed a crime, there's way too much risk they'll talk you into falsely confessing to something.

As it stands now, this is exactly the kind of case where there's a high motive to work over the believed criminal to elicit a confession. There's huge amounts of public pressure to close the case, everyone "knows" he's guilty, concrete physical evidence is very slim (as of yet), and most evidence tying the alleged killer to the crime is circumstantial.
Seriously? US-ian police/sheriffs/marshalls/Columbo/Quincy still use Reid or similar techniques?

What was that about "and justice for all"?
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Old 22nd September 2021, 03:31 AM   #156
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" All " does not mean what you think it does..
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Old 22nd September 2021, 03:32 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King View Post
Seriously? US-ian police/sheriffs/marshalls/Columbo/Quincy still use Reid or similar techniques?

What was that about "and justice for all"?
Yeah - I hadn't realised that myself until recently. I thought the bad cop/good cop stuff was for making drama in the more formulaic procedural TV shows, like the old canard of a white outline for the body.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 04:18 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
It isn't that he wasn't talking to cop, but that he wasn't talking at all. He went off with a girl in her van and came back alone with no explanation. That is obviously suspicious.

It is not proof of guilt. It is a refutation proof of guilt.

I would certainly recommend not talking to the police without a lawyer. But when you get a lawyer...it gets complicated.

The suspicion here is not about talking to police, but that he went out into the woods with her and came home alone in her van with no explanation and that nobody could contact her. He didn't even tell her family or friends that he had come back alone.

A person has a right to remain silent. There are legitimate reasons to do so. But that does not apply to every case.

The rule to not talk to cops is not a hard fast rule. And especially not for lawyers representing someone. There are times to say things and not say other things or only say certain things. The "internet" concept of never talking to police is only vaguely true.

In this case, not talking at the very minimum rightfully pushed suspicion to him killing her.
I don't see how him not talking added much. He was the last known person to be with her, he's obviously suspect #1 from the jump.

With the body found and coroner ruling it a homicide, it's almost assuredly enough to get an arrest warrant on him.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 05:10 AM   #159
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Homicide means intentional death. Can we rule out suicide? Self defense is a strong possibility.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 05:14 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Homicide means intentional death. Can we rule out suicide? Self defense is a strong possibility.
Homicide is when one human being causes the death of another, not themselves.
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