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Old 24th November 2021, 09:35 AM   #41
theprestige
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
I swear to god I thought he meant concise. Jesus. (like - a wave could be continuous and not require all the digits of binary or something)
"Consciousness" makes sense of everything about the idea except the information transmission part, which seems to be about conciseness and also central to the idea.

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I googled STCs and that didn't help either. : cool :
Sorry. It was a tabletop gaming nerd reference. Standard Template Constructs are the blueprints humanity uses to manufacture all the cool stuff in the grim dark future of a particular game setting.
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Old 24th November 2021, 11:00 PM   #42
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Some mornings I’m not fully concise until my second cup of coffee.
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Old 25th November 2021, 05:15 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Do you mean 'consciousness'?

Humanity's loss.
Yes a wave form based self recognizing Intelligence, a machine who's mind talks to itself.
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Old 27th November 2021, 04:18 AM   #44
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So, trying to make sense of this.
You're postulating that we could create a thing, for the sake of argument we'll call it a computer that is wave based so we use analog instead of digital to maybe somehow approximate the way the brain might respond to say neurotransmitters. And then that things like von Neumann probes can only be built if they're conscious?
You need to show your working at several points here.

PS in IBM's z/OS operating system an STC is a started task (something like a unix daemon or a windows service) so I was very confused.
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Old 28th November 2021, 02:25 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
So, trying to make sense of this.
You're postulating that we could create a thing, for the sake of argument we'll call it a computer that is wave based so we use analog instead of digital to maybe somehow approximate the way the brain might respond to say neurotransmitters. And then that things like von Neumann probes can only be built if they're conscious?
You need to show your working at several points here.

PS in IBM's z/OS operating system an STC is a started task (something like a unix daemon or a windows service) so I was very confused.
Imagine intersecting waves canceling each other out so that the only data that remains Is the difference between set B and set A, and you can now use set C to determine an action based on the change without doing any computation with Logic Circuits.
My first attempt at doing this was just to use a system of vibrating Quarts Crystal and Photo resisters in which the light came from two different directions onto the Quarts Cyrstal.
I used logic circuits in that one, but I later found out if I could set up a series of capacitor like charges that I could manipulate on single planes I didn't need And/Or, or Nor logic Circuits at all.
It's complicated and Probably not do able right now because holding the capacitor like charges is a very power hungry way of doing it.
But if you were able to use super conducting Nano Tubes and Graphine I think I would be possible.
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Old 28th November 2021, 02:39 PM   #46
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This is word salad. There's no actual computer science or information theory in play.
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Old 28th November 2021, 06:02 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
This is word salad. There's no actual computer science or information theory in play.
Wish I could explain it better, so you could understand it, but there are reasons I do not.
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Old 29th November 2021, 04:27 AM   #48
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Personally I don't see how it is any more useful than IBM's TRT instruction.
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Old 29th November 2021, 05:10 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
This is word salad. There's no actual computer science or information theory in play.
The whole universe is memory in Information Theory, points in space, the Human mind also uses data points but is not Bionary in Function.
That leaves one of two possible theories as to how Conciseness works, it is wave energy based, or it is a Quantum computer using a Chemical form of Q-Bits, I reject the Q-bit theory because evidence points to a wave based Conciseness.
As such if we are ever going to build a Consise android we may want to model it off of a biological system that is time tested by evolution.
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Old 29th November 2021, 05:13 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
Personally I don't see how it is any more useful than IBM's TRT instruction.
That's because your thinking in Bionary Terms.
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Old 29th November 2021, 07:29 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
I know how wave cancelation works with sound, but hadn't ever seen it associated with light waves. Interesting, but I don't see how that would be more concise than 0s and 1s, or have anything to do with computing off the planet Earth, though?
It is the basis of Interferometry.
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Old 29th November 2021, 07:42 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Imagine intersecting waves canceling each other out so that the only data that remains Is the difference between set B and set A, and you can now use set C to determine an action based on the change without doing any computation with Logic Circuits.
My first attempt at doing this was just to use a system of vibrating Quarts Crystal and Photo resisters in which the light came from two different directions onto the Quarts Cyrstal.
I used logic circuits in that one, but I later found out if I could set up a series of capacitor like charges that I could manipulate on single planes I didn't need And/Or, or Nor logic Circuits at all.
It's complicated and Probably not do able right now because holding the capacitor like charges is a very power hungry way of doing it.
But if you were able to use super conducting Nano Tubes and Graphine I think I would be possible.
Waves traveling in opposite directions don't give a concise pattern. The amplitudes combine and reinforce or cancel in a varying pattern. In order to extract the information of one of those waves from the 'concise' wave you would need both the 'concise' wave and the other reference wave vs just the having the target wave itself.


ETA2: Interference of right traveling (green) and left traveling (blue) waves in Two-dimensional space, resulting in final (red) wave


ETA: If the number of waves you combine is N and the number of waves you want combined information about is Y (N-X) you need X references wave to get that combined information from N. Or you just take combined wave Y. So the problem becomes to make the extraction of data contained in combined wave N as versatile as possible you still need all the individual waves of N that you could simply combine themselves into wave Y, W, Z .... as needed.
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Last edited by The Man; 29th November 2021 at 07:59 AM. Reason: eta, eta2 typo
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Old 29th November 2021, 07:47 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
The whole universe is memory in Information Theory, points in space, the Human mind also uses data points but is not Bionary in Function.
That leaves one of two possible theories as to how Conciseness works, it is wave energy based, or it is a Quantum computer using a Chemical form of Q-Bits, I reject the Q-bit theory because evidence points to a wave based Conciseness.
As such if we are ever going to build a Consise android we may want to model it off of a biological system that is time tested by evolution.
As someone already mentioned, analog computers have existed for ages, far longer than digital computers. Viewed as black-box functions, they only differ from binary computers by being less deterministic.

In practical applications, they differ by being very complex to program and by being huge and slow.

Your idea might be able to work around the last two.

Hans
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Old 29th November 2021, 08:38 AM   #54
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This all reminds me of extracting data from a TV signal with comb filtering.

Analog television, Structure of a video signal

Comb Filters and Notch Filters in a Display

Heck, not only have such combined and decomposed signals never given any indication of leading to consciousness, they have often been associated with generating unconsciousness in the viewer.
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Old Yesterday, 06:44 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Imagine intersecting waves canceling each other out so that the only data that remains Is the difference between set B and set A, and you can now use set C to determine an action based on the change without doing any computation with Logic Circuits.
My first attempt at doing this was just to use a system of vibrating Quarts Crystal and Photo resisters in which the light came from two different directions onto the Quarts Cyrstal.
I used logic circuits in that one, but I later found out if I could set up a series of capacitor like charges that I could manipulate on single planes I didn't need And/Or, or Nor logic Circuits at all.
It's complicated and Probably not do able right now because holding the capacitor like charges is a very power hungry way of doing it.
But if you were able to use super conducting Nano Tubes and Graphine I think I would be possible.
Imperial quarts or American quarts?

(I know. i know. Who am I to cast stonz?)
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Old Yesterday, 06:47 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
Personally I don't see how it is any more useful than IBM's TRT instruction.
But first you have to set the ASCII-bit in the PSW.
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