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Old 23rd August 2019, 05:48 AM   #1
angrysoba
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David Koch’s snuffed it

He was a major donor to political causes.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...e_iOSApp_Other
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 23rd August 2019, 05:48 AM   #2
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One down, one to go!
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Old 23rd August 2019, 05:51 AM   #3
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
One down, one to go!
What is your objection to them?
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Old 23rd August 2019, 05:55 AM   #4
TragicMonkey
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
What is your objection to them?
Sweetie, I ain't never gonna play your reindeer games so don't bother with an invite.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 05:58 AM   #5
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
One down, one to go!
Actually, there are three Koch brothers left - but Fredrick and William are not very active, politically.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 05:59 AM   #6
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Sweetie, I ain't never gonna play your reindeer games so don't bother with an invite.
I rolled out the red carpet for you to express what you don't like about the guy.

You also don't know what a reindeer game is....as demonstrated by me including you in it.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 06:07 AM   #7
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Here's to hoping that whoever inherits his wealth has the decency to hoard their wealth more quietly and not interfere with politics.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 06:11 AM   #8
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Here's to hoping that whoever inherits his wealth has the decency to hoard their wealth more quietly and not interfere with politics.
It is a democracy with free speech. Petitioning representatives is not interfering with democracy anymore than you meeting with your congressperson.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 06:43 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Here's to hoping that whoever inherits his wealth has the decency to hoard their wealth more quietly and not interfere with politics.
To be fair he a did a lot of good with his money as far as medical advancements go, but as this awesome Maddox article points out about that ******* Christopher Reeves, he probably only did it because he had the disease he was raising awareness to.
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Last edited by plague311; 23rd August 2019 at 07:05 AM.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 07:00 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
It is a democracy with free speech. Petitioning representatives is not interfering with democracy anymore than you meeting with your congressperson.
Yeps, and the representative will be just as glad to see a person with no assets than a person with, say, 10 billion dollars, because both have just one vote. He will judge their opinions and wishes based on the merits of those opinions and wishes. That's how democracy simply works.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 07:05 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by llwyd View Post
Yeps, and the representative will be just as glad to see a person with no assets than a person with, say, 10 billion dollars, because both have just one vote. He will judge their opinions and wishes based on the merits of those opinions and wishes. That's how democracy simply works.
Holy ****. You owe me a new keyboard.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 07:23 AM   #12
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by llwyd View Post
Yeps, and the representative will be just as glad to see a person with no assets than a person with, say, 10 billion dollars, because both have just one vote. He will judge their opinions and wishes based on the merits of those opinions and wishes. That's how democracy simply works.
If you have two voters, and o e is simply more enthusiastic and a better communicator of their support for you, it isn't anti democracy to consider the views of the better and more enthusiastic supporter.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 07:46 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
If you have two voters, and o e is simply more enthusiastic and a better communicator of their support for you, it isn't anti democracy to consider the views of the better and more enthusiastic supporter.
"I can give you millions of dollars" is definitely a good way to "communicate".
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 23rd August 2019, 07:50 AM   #14
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Old 23rd August 2019, 08:28 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
"I can give you millions of dollars" is definitely a good way to "communicate".

Just remember. "I'll give you millions of dollars if you enact policies I want" is bribery. "I'll give you millions of dollars just because I like you, but if you don't enact policies I want, I won't like you anymore" is lobbying.

SMBC.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 08:34 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
Just remember. "I'll give you millions of dollars if you enact policies I want" is bribery. "I'll give you millions of dollars just because I like you, but if you don't enact policies I want, I won't like you anymore" is lobbying.

SMBC.
It works the same with a person giving hundreds of hours of canvassing to a candidate they support as long as that candidate backs policies they support.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 08:35 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
What is your objection to them?
My objection can be summarised by Alexander Kaufman, an environmental commentator at HuffPost, who tweeted: “He deployed his stupendous fortune funding climate denial in the years when the science was clear and there was still time to avert catastrophic warming. He died as fires raged from the Amazon to the Arctic.”
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Old 23rd August 2019, 08:38 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by TheSupermeerkat View Post
My objection can be summarised by Alexander Kaufman, an environmental commentator at HuffPost, who tweeted: “He deployed his stupendous fortune funding climate denial in the years when the science was clear and there was still time to avert catastrophic warming. He died as fires raged from the Amazon to the Arctic.”
Do you feel the same about everyone that sees things differently from you, or does it not matter because they are less good at enacting their vision?
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Old 23rd August 2019, 08:51 AM   #19
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There is an obvious connection between the deaths of David Koch and Jeffrey Epstein.

If anyone can see it, let me know.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 09:04 AM   #20
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I'm sorry for his family.

I am not sorry that there is one less fat cat spending his money denying science like climate change because it hurts his bottom line.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 09:09 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Do you feel the same about everyone that sees things differently from you, or does it not matter because they are less good at enacting their vision?
You're funny. Let's be friends.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 09:20 AM   #22
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Maybe this would be good text for his obituary.

Originally Posted by Earther @ Gizmodo dot com
Greenpeace estimates the brothers spent $127 million from 1997 to 2017 funding 92 organizations that muddied the waters on climate change, a move that helped make international efforts to combat climate change, like the Kyoto Protocol, worthless. They funded a network of overlapping climate denial organizations to kill a 2009 bill that would have created a cap and trade system, a very business-friendly climate solution they rejected on principle.

...

David Koch will never have to watch the world struggle to climb the steepening curve he helped propel into existence. And he’ll never have to live with the consequences if we don’t. If the world misses the 1.5 degrees Celsius goal, the impacts will be severe. Coral will likely disappear. Large swaths of island nations could become uninhabitable by midcentury. Millions of more people who rely on rainfed agriculture will face hunger as the weather becomes more erratic. Livelihoods will disappear. Societies will vanish. People, in short, will die.

There is deep injustice in David Koch’s death. Journalist Kate Aronoff has made the case that fossil fuel executives should be tried for crimes against humanity. Those trials—if they happen—would be unlikely to snare some of the biggest perpetrators of those crimes because they too will already be dead. Climate change is a form of violence that will largely affect people with little power to address it or relatively little role in creating it. Death is an escape hatch for David Koch while the rest of us are left scrambling for the emergency brake before we go over the cliff.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 09:40 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I'm not sure where we get that only so much power to cancass is fair but it isn't fair if it is too much.

And your math ignores that each person generates different utility from their hour. Money is merely a technology able to convert types of resources into others
If a person tells me that he or she is a libertarian I have exactly the same reaction if they would have told me that they were marxist-leninists. Supporting ideologies that work like a dream on paper but take no note of the ever corruptible and shortsighted human nature. In other words, they are not very intelligent.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:01 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
There is an obvious connection between the deaths of David Koch and Jeffrey Epstein.

If anyone can see it, let me know.
The Reddit conspiracy board has at least one person on there convinced both David Koch and Epstein are not dead, but just going "underground," because Trump is going after pedophiles.

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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:09 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Do you feel the same about everyone that sees things differently from you, or does it not matter because they are less good at enacting their vision?
Do you not understand the potential impact of climate change?



Oh, that's right. You don't believe a single word you post. Sorry, carry on.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 11:18 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Do you not understand the potential impact of climate change?



Oh, that's right. You don't believe a single word you post. Sorry, carry on.
I was responding to supermeerkats argument. If this is their argument, then I would gladly answer. But I'm not responding to the best argument that could be made.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 12:22 PM   #27
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Lucky him, gone before the worst of his damage ruins the US economy and environment.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 12:26 PM   #28
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Hope he burns.

And **** his family too.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 12:36 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
There is an obvious connection between the deaths of David Koch and Jeffrey Epstein.

If anyone can see it, let me know.
I'm sure Hillary is behind it. Or Obama.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 01:06 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
To be fair he a did a lot of good with his money as far as medical advancements go, but as this awesome Maddox article points out about that ******* Christopher Reeves, he probably only did it because he had the disease he was raising awareness to.
I would not call it "fair". The David H Koch Foundation funded a lot of science programming on PBS. But the flip side of that is he had to have been fully aware of global warming and the effects of industrial waste in the air and water while he spent millions and millions producing propaganda and lobbying to deny the science.

The Kochs, Mercers and Scaifes are all billionaire families with strong political leanings toward the John Birch Society. The Koch's father supported the Birchers and the sons followed suit, Charles and David especially: White Supremacists through and through.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 01:13 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
He was a major donor to political causes.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...e_iOSApp_Other
Most of his philanthropy was for non-political causes.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 01:17 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Hope he burns.

And **** his family too.
Can we not do this?
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Old 23rd August 2019, 01:32 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Can we not do this?
What? Express our emotions about a guy's death?
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Old 23rd August 2019, 01:45 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Can we not do this?
We could not do that, but we will.

**** the whole Koch family.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 01:46 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
What? Express our emotions about a guy's death?
No, I think he was asking about can we **** his family. Depends but you'll have better luck if you kiss them first.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 01:52 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Most of his philanthropy was for non-political causes.

You mean their publicity stunt?!

Quote:
To offset negative publicity, the Kochs donated hundreds of millions to cultural institutions, including Lincoln Center for the Performing Arts in New York and the Smithsonian’s National Museum of Natural History in Washington DC. “We must build a positive reputation based on reality, or others will create one for us based on speculation or animus and we won’t like what they create,” Charles Koch wrote in 2007’s The Science of Success.
Five key ways the Koch brothers pushed their rightwing agenda (Guardian, Aug. 23, 2019)
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Old 23rd August 2019, 01:58 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Most of his philanthropy was for non-political causes.
Do you mean in terms of dollars donated?

That may be true (I'd have to actually look at the numbers to say for sure.) But even if he gave more for medical research and/or the arts, the national and global impact due to his political activities will far outweigh whatever good he did with regards to his non-political donations.

His support of climate change deniers will cause plenty of problems in the future (and untold billions of damage) because of an inability to deal with global warming.

Their support for Republican and tea party causes has given the republicans excessive influence in politics, allowing them to (for example) confirm Drunky McRapeface to the supreme court and voter rights to be suppressed. If/when abortion rights are curtailed, the Koch brothers will have had a part in it.

And while they didn't contribute directly to Trump's election (as best as I can remember), their past support for republican causes certainly set the stage for his rise to power, and their work to get republicans elected in congress gave Trump free reign in his first few years in power. When the deficit hits $1 trillion, and the president labels neo-nazis as "fine people", the Koch brothers had a part in that.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 02:05 PM   #38
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He supported some progressive policies, such as gay marriage. But all of that took a back seat to his efforts to push the Republican party further into Libertarianism.

Which then ended up as a very lopsided sort of Libertarianism, focused on businesses and wealth, but allowing and encouraging laws against the few progressive policies he supported.

In other words, he supported some liberal or progressive points of view, but then through his higher priority actions made them less likely or greatly delayed implementation.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 03:02 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
There is an obvious connection between the deaths of David Koch and Jeffrey Epstein.

If anyone can see it, let me know.

I see it! I see it!

No... wait...

It's only bellybutton lint. Sorry, my bad.
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Old 23rd August 2019, 08:15 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Can we not do this?
Liberals are very mean, nasty people. Psychotic even.
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