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Tags Derek Chauvin , George Floyd , Minneapolis incidents , police incidents , police misconduct charges

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Old 24th July 2020, 08:29 AM   #1641
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Okay. I am Mr. Floyd. High on meth and fentanyl sitting in a car with the cigarettes I had just purchased with (hypothetically) what I thought was a honest-to-god legitimate 20,or (hypothetically) a fake twenty that I was trying to pass.
"Therefore I deserve to be murdered."

Quote:
Person from the store comes out and says my 20 was counterfeit, and wants to switch back. I politely decline.
"Therefore I deserve to be murdered."
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Old 24th July 2020, 08:32 AM   #1642
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
"Therefore I deserve to be murdered."



"Therefore I deserve to be murdered."
Why do you deserve to be murdered?
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Old 24th July 2020, 08:36 AM   #1643
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Basically, the clerk was running up to George Floyd sayng "I want to trade this here fake 20 for a real one that you have. Oh, and it was all your fault, from before. Trust me"

No way anyone would buy that, including a cop. Floyd should never have been arrested in the first place.

Killing him was right out.
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Old 24th July 2020, 08:40 AM   #1644
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Why do you deserve to be murdered?
Maybe try doing the "LOL I'm obtuse" bit when you're not defending race murders.
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Old 24th July 2020, 08:43 AM   #1645
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Maybe try doing the "LOL I'm obtuse" bit when you're not defending race murders.
Maybe try slinging unfounded and un reasoned accusations on a forum like "facebook", "Twitter", or "tik-tok".
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Old 24th July 2020, 08:45 AM   #1646
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Maybe try slinging unfounded and un reasoned accusations on a forum like "facebook", "Twitter", or "tik-tok".
You're playing bog standard, "Let me tell you why the black guy still is at fault" tactics. Spare me.
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Old 24th July 2020, 08:45 AM   #1647
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Basically, the clerk was running up to George Floyd sayng "I want to trade this here fake 20 for a real one that you have. Oh, and it was all your fault, from before. Trust me"

No way anyone would buy that, including a cop. Floyd should never have been arrested in the first place.

Killing him was right out.
Certainly I would not buy that.
Just thinking about all the times store owners have used that ploy to unload a fake twenty, sheesh.
You would think that by now they would have worked out that slipping it in with someones change is the easier way to pass it on.
Lots more work to chase someone down with the false accusation approach.
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Old 24th July 2020, 08:46 AM   #1648
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Certainly I would not buy that.
Just thinking about all the times store owners have used that ploy to unload a fake twenty, sheesh.
You would think that by now they would have worked out that slipping it in with someones change is the easier way to pass it on.
Lots more work to chase someone down with the false accusation approach.
"And therefore it's okay that the black guy is dead." - Distract1 (so you can't play obtuse anymore)
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Old 24th July 2020, 08:47 AM   #1649
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post

Hilite 2. Okay. I am Mr. Floyd. High on meth and fentanyl sitting in a car with the cigarettes I had just purchased with (hypothetically) what I thought was a honest-to-god legitimate 20,or (hypothetically) a fake twenty that I was trying to pass.
Person from the store comes out and says my 20 was counterfeit, and wants to switch back. I politely decline. Cops roll up- what do I do?
Get murdered in the street.
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Old 24th July 2020, 08:55 AM   #1650
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Certainly I would not buy that.
Just thinking about all the times store owners have used that ploy to unload a fake twenty, sheesh.
You would think that by now they would have worked out that slipping it in with someones change is the easier way to pass it on.
Lots more work to chase someone down with the false accusation approach.
The clerk may believe Floyd passed a bad bill that got by him. It just doesn't matter anymore. From Floyd's perspective, and the cops, and from any non-head injured persons perspectives, it's ridiculous. Surely you would agree that although it sucks to be the clerk left holding the bag, from Floyd's POV it is just a joke to demand (especially assuming Floyd didn't know)?

It sucks to get burned but you have to consider the accuseds POV. Its less fair to him. Keep riding it out: should Floyd have gone back to the grocery store he received the 20 at hours before and called police on them? Chauvin could have killed dozens before the dust settled.

Last one who took the funny money is stuck with it. Seems unfair, but the alternatives are less fair.
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Old 24th July 2020, 09:41 AM   #1651
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The clerk may believe Floyd passed a bad bill that got by him. It just doesn't matter anymore. From Floyd's perspective, and the cops, and from any non-head injured persons perspectives, it's ridiculous. Surely you would agree that although it sucks to be the clerk left holding the bag, from Floyd's POV it is just a joke to demand (especially assuming Floyd didn't know)?

It sucks to get burned but you have to consider the accuseds POV. Its less fair to him. Keep riding it out: should Floyd have gone back to the grocery store he received the 20 at hours before and called police on them? Chauvin could have killed dozens before the dust settled.

Last one who took the funny money is stuck with it. Seems unfair, but the alternatives are less fair.
1. Well it seems to matter to those claiming that the police should never have responded to the call. Do you still assert that?

2. If Floyd had an idea where he got the 20 from, he would have been entirely justified going back to that place and attempting to get recompense. If they refused, he would be entirely within his rights to call the cops. Further, it would be the right thing for the cops to respond to that call.
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Old 24th July 2020, 09:54 AM   #1652
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Might want to re-read that.


Oh, Ok, so Captain Howdy is presumably using an analogy to your suggestion. Not a very good one by my estimation given the difference in the types of crimes, but apologies to CH for hasty reading.
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Old 24th July 2020, 10:13 AM   #1653
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Oh, Ok, so Captain Howdy is presumably using an analogy to your suggestion. Not a very good one by my estimation given the difference in the types of crimes, but apologies to CH for hasty reading.

CH's analogy presupposes that the woman could only have gone to the guy's house with the express intent to have sex with him. Like there couldn't possibly be any other reason. That's kinda Victorian. No woman would let herself be alone, unchaperoned, with a male unless sex was the object.

And also leaves unspoken the possibility that even if she had left the bar with such an intent, she changed her mind before they did anything and the dude wouldn't take no for an answer.

You're right. Not a very good analogy.
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Old 24th July 2020, 11:34 AM   #1654
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
1. Well it seems to matter to those claiming that the police should never have responded to the call.
If they can't respond to the call without murdering people, yes.

You cartoonishly making a big show of pretending to miss the point isn't anywhere near as clever as you think it is.
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Old 24th July 2020, 01:09 PM   #1655
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
1. Well it seems to matter to those claiming that the police should never have responded to the call. Do you still assert that?
.....
The cops pretty much have to respond to any call for service. So what? They don't get to kill people for no reason. If four cops couldn't arrest an unarmed drunk -- if in fact he was -- without hurting him, let alone killing him, then those particular cops shouldn't have responded.

And I'm not sure the fake $20 matters, if in fact it was. He handed over a bill, the cashier accepted it and completed his purchase. Then he/she claimed it was phony. How could anyone prove Floyd knew it was fake, or that the clerk hadn't switched bills? Unless the store had a really high-quality video system, I don't see how this could have gone far as a criminal matter.

Bottom line: Floyd was murdered by four cops, and there is no possible rationalization.
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Old 25th July 2020, 01:51 PM   #1656
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Derek Chauvin, the officer who murdered George Floyd over a 20 dollar counterfeit bill, has been filing fraudulent tax returns for at least the past six years and owes nearly 38,000 dollars.

Nobody has yet kneeled on his neck until he is dead because of it.
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Old 25th July 2020, 05:06 PM   #1657
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Hilite 1. Yes, there was a confrontation brewing between the store and Mr. Floyd. Why do you suppose police respond to things like noise complaints when they can? Largely because when they ignore them, the next call from that street is about neighbors fighting each other because someone decided to take doing something about it into their own hands.

Hilite 2. Okay. I am Mr. Floyd. High on meth and fentanyl sitting in a car with the cigarettes I had just purchased with (hypothetically) what I thought was a honest-to-god legitimate 20,or (hypothetically) a fake twenty that I was trying to pass.
Person from the store comes out and says my 20 was counterfeit, and wants to switch back. I politely decline. Cops roll up- what do I do?

Hilite 3. Probably not. The steps in between those events would not likely have been the ones I would have taken either.
I guess that would be dependent on what the cops did when they rolled up. If they treated me with respect, as a possible victim who unknowingly received a counterfeit bill, I probably would have felt they were sympathetic to my problem and the unfairness of being asked to eat the loss. If they investigated further and determined the counterfeit bill had become the shop’s problem, I might have been downright pleased and cooperative. I certainly would have entered into the encounter feeling I was innocent of a crime, or why else would I have hung around waiting for the cops?

It might have gone downhill if they tried to handcuff and suffocate me...

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Old 27th July 2020, 01:34 AM   #1658
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LEAKED DOCUMENTS SHOW POLICE KNEW FAR-RIGHT EXTREMISTS WERE THE REAL THREAT AT PROTESTS, NOT “ANTIFA”

Originally Posted by The Intercept
AS PROTESTS AGAINST police violence spread to every state in the U.S. and dramatic images flooded in from cities across the country, President Donald Trump and his attorney general spun an ominous story of opportunistic leftists exploiting a national trauma to sow chaos and disorder. They were the anti-fascists known as “antifa”, and according to the administration they were domestic terrorists who would be policed accordingly.

{...}
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Old 28th July 2020, 09:53 AM   #1659
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http://www.internationalskeptics.com...8#post13107668

Originally Posted by Checkmite
Numerous videos clips throughout social media show masked white individuals being the first to start throwing objects and smashing or attempting to smash windows in various cities like Houston and Oakland. We've already seen the clip here of the heavily-kitted white man with a full face mask and...bizarrely, an umbrella...smashing windows at Auto Zone in MN and being objected to by the completely non-agitated black protesters around him, at which point he aggressively threatens them and then just walks away from the protest area.
And today we find out that "Umbrella Man" is suspected to be a member of the Hellís Angels biker gang and an associate of the Aryan Cowboy Brotherhood, a small white supremacist prison and street gang based primarily in Minnesota and Kentucky, who was seeking to incite racial tension in a demonstration that until then had been peaceful.

Police: 'Umbrella Man' was a white supremacist trying to incite George Floyd rioting
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Old 28th July 2020, 10:10 AM   #1660
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...8#post13107668



And today we find out that "Umbrella Man" is suspected to be a member of the Hell’s Angels biker gang and an associate of the Aryan Cowboy Brotherhood, a small white supremacist prison and street gang based primarily in Minnesota and Kentucky, who was seeking to incite racial tension in a demonstration that until then had been peaceful.

Police: 'Umbrella Man' was a white supremacist trying to incite George Floyd rioting
Wow. I know that there was wide speculation at the time about this being a provocateur , but never thought we'd get any kind of confirmation on this.
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Old 29th July 2020, 05:20 AM   #1661
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Wow. I know that there was wide speculation at the time about this being a provocateur , but never thought we'd get any kind of confirmation on this.
Having read through the link we haven't, as yet.
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Old 29th July 2020, 05:23 AM   #1662
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Having read through the link we haven't, as yet.
Yeah, wishful thinking on my part.

The source is an unnamed tip repeated by the cops. It wouldn't be the first time the cops have lied about outside agitators or white provocateurs.

The article makes it seem like an arrest and more public information may be imminent. I will remain skeptical until this can actually be verified.
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Old 29th July 2020, 06:18 AM   #1663
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
[url]And today we find out that "Umbrella Man" is suspected to be a member of the Hellís Angels biker gang and an associate of the Aryan Cowboy Brotherhood,
Isn't Aryan Cowboys the name of the football team that Trump once owned?
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Old 29th July 2020, 06:36 AM   #1664
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The source is an unnamed tip repeated by the cops. It wouldn't be the first time the cops have lied about outside agitators or white provocateurs.
He very well might be though, white supremacists have been doing that sort of stuff. The lie is more that such incidents are somehow representative of disturbances happening. The vast majority of disturbances are a direct result of a crowd responding to an attack by police, only a minority are caused by protesters, and of those a majority is caused by just random people (including black people) rioting. White supremacists acting as provocateurs are a causal factor in only a minority of a minority of cases of disturbances, and are mostly handled swiftly by the crowd (bow-and-arrow man comes to mind, but there are others).
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Old 29th July 2020, 06:58 AM   #1665
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
He very well might be though, white supremacists have been doing that sort of stuff. The lie is more that such incidents are somehow representative of disturbances happening. The vast majority of disturbances are a direct result of a crowd responding to an attack by police, only a minority are caused by protesters, and of those a majority is caused by just random people (including black people) rioting. White supremacists acting as provocateurs are a causal factor in only a minority of a minority of cases of disturbances, and are mostly handled swiftly by the crowd (bow-and-arrow man comes to mind, but there are others).
I wouldn't be surprised if it did turn out to be true, that incident has always been very suspect.

I just don't think the cops have much credibility on these issues right now. They have been caught repeatedly telling whoppers about the protests and outside agitators.
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Old 5th August 2020, 03:55 AM   #1666
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DHS Investigates Alleged Antifa Protesters as Terrorists Trained in Syria

Quote:
An intelligence report from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) states that anti-fascist activists (Antifa) are being investigated as possible terrorists with affiliations to Syria, even though no self-identified members of the loosely-affiliated Antifa protest movement have either been proven to commit any murders or carry out any terrorist attacks.

{...}
Fascinating...
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Old 5th August 2020, 04:08 AM   #1667
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
It's a pretext to spy on American citizens.

A handful of lefties went to Rojava to fight with the Kurds a few years ago, and somehow this means there's a foreign link between the mass of protesters in this country and the Kurds for... reasons.
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Old 5th August 2020, 04:38 AM   #1668
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It's a pretext to spy on American citizens.

A handful of lefties went to Rojava to fight with the Kurds a few years ago, and somehow this means there's a foreign link between the mass of protesters in this country and the Kurds for... reasons.
Obviously. Funny thing here in Belgium is that the PKK is explicitly considered a terrorist organization by the executive branch but explicitly considered not a terrorist organization by the judicial branch - so as much as the executive branch is trying to get people involved with it tried under anti-terrorism legislation the cases get instantly thrown out for being groundless. The fascinating thing about these events in the US isn't that the executive branch (and security services etc) are doing this whole "anti-fascists are terrorists" thing (as if they ever do anything else) but the willingness of the judicial branch to go along with it.
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Old 5th August 2020, 04:44 AM   #1669
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Obviously. Funny thing here in Belgium is that the PKK is explicitly considered a terrorist organization by the executive branch but explicitly not considered a terrorist organization by the judicial branch - so as much as the executive branch is trying to get people involved with it tried under anti-terrorism legislation the cases get instantly thrown out for being groundless. The fascinating thing about these events in the US isn't that the executive branch (and security services etc) are doing this whole "anti-fascists are terrorists" thing (as if they ever do anything else) but the willingness of the judicial branch to go along with it.
The Kurds is a tricky thing here too. The PKK is considered a terrorist org, but the YPG and other affiliated armed units of the Kurds in Syria are not, and were ostensibly US allies in the the fight against ISIS there, even as they are bombed by Turkey, another ally.

The Americans who went over to Syria to fight with the YPG did so lawfully, as far as the US government is concerned. Brace Belden is pretty open about his experience, and even though he's a Marxist, there's really not much objectionable to the ordinary American about the military campaign against ISIS he took part in.
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Old 5th August 2020, 05:07 AM   #1670
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Bodycam footage of the George Floyd Arrest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPSwqp5fdIw
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Old 5th August 2020, 05:15 AM   #1671
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The Americans who went over to Syria to fight with the YPG did so lawfully, as far as the US government is concerned.
That can change very fast, especially if you have a judicial branch that just goes along with it.
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Old 5th August 2020, 11:28 AM   #1672
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Does someone have to die in order for an act to be considered "Terrorism"?

Honest question, as I've never looked into the textbook definition of the word, but it doesn't seem like it should be a requirement.
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Old 5th August 2020, 12:01 PM   #1673
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Does someone have to die in order for an act to be considered "Terrorism"?

Honest question, as I've never looked into the textbook definition of the word, but it doesn't seem like it should be a requirement.
No. However, declaring ANTIFA a terrorist organization based on the actions of a few rioters/looters opens a can of worms like nobody's business. For example, people associated with PETA have hurt people and caused property damage; should that organization be labeled as terrorist? Is Greenpeace a terrorist organization? Again, using this attempted action against ANTIFA as a guide, it would be a pretty easy case to make.

Treating ANTIFA as a terrorist organization is an attempt to stifle valid political speech and to create an excuse for arresting US citizens without evidence of actual criminal activity.
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Old 5th August 2020, 01:25 PM   #1674
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
No. However, declaring ANTIFA a terrorist organization based on the actions of a few rioters/looters opens a can of worms like nobody's business. For example, people associated with PETA have hurt people and caused property damage; should that organization be labeled as terrorist? Is Greenpeace a terrorist organization? Again, using this attempted action against ANTIFA as a guide, it would be a pretty easy case to make.

Treating ANTIFA as a terrorist organization is an attempt to stifle valid political speech and to create an excuse for arresting US citizens without evidence of actual criminal activity.
It's not really any different from how a lot of leaderless grass-roots eco-terrorism groups are viewed. PETA and Greenpeace not so much, but ELF and ALF certainly.
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Old 5th August 2020, 03:45 PM   #1675
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Does someone have to die in order for an act to be considered "Terrorism"?

Honest question, as I've never looked into the textbook definition of the word, but it doesn't seem like it should be a requirement.
True, it's not a requirement. Indeed, there are many things which aren't requirements, I can easily think of dozens already. Is there some point behind your question, or are we just playing a game coming up with random things which happen to not be requirements for an act to be considered "terrorism"?
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Old 5th August 2020, 04:22 PM   #1676
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
True, it's not a requirement. Indeed, there are many things which aren't requirements, I can easily think of dozens already. Is there some point behind your question, or are we just playing a game coming up with random things which happen to not be requirements for an act to be considered "terrorism"?
My "point", as clearly stated in my post was, an honest question. No ulterior motive beyond expanding my (and possibly others if they had the same question in mind) knowledge base, since I honestly didn't know.
Why would you expect it to be anything different?
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Old 6th August 2020, 03:05 AM   #1677
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
My "point", as clearly stated in my post was, an honest question. No ulterior motive beyond expanding my (and possibly others if they had the same question in mind) knowledge base, since I honestly didn't know.
Why would you expect it to be anything different?
Because "not actually having killed someone" isn't the reason "Antifa" does not qualify as a "terrorist organization", the reason would be "not having committed any terrorist acts."
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Old 6th August 2020, 03:56 AM   #1678
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Originally Posted by Max_mang View Post
Bodycam footage of the George Floyd Arrest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPSwqp5fdIw
For those who don't want to watch it, there's a description here. If the description is accurate, the encounter started with Floyd apologising and begging them not to shoot him as they approach his car, followed by the police drawing their guns on him. He doesn't resist at any point, and spends most of the time afraid and begging.
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Old 6th August 2020, 04:02 AM   #1679
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Because "not actually having killed someone" isn't the reason "Antifa" does not qualify as a "terrorist organization", the reason would be "not having committed any terrorist acts."
Have they? So far that seems very murky, especially since Antifa, like BLM, isn't a cohesive, centralised group.
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Old 6th August 2020, 04:03 AM   #1680
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
For those who don't want to watch it, there's a description here. If the description is accurate, the encounter started with Floyd apologising and begging them not to shoot him as they approach his car, followed by the police drawing their guns on him. He doesn't resist at any point, and spends most of the time afraid and begging.
Oops! Time to go back to trying to argue drugs were in his system, then.
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