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Old 31st July 2020, 11:30 PM   #1
Meadmaker
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Banning TikTok?

Trump said he was going to ban TikTok.

Whoa. Ban? What? Do we do that sort of thing here?

As is typical, the headline news stories are sparse on detail, so the articles I read didn't talk about what authority he was using to ban them, or what banning TikTok even means. I'm not accustomed to the idea that I am not allowed to install something on my computer. (Including a phone)

Does he mean ban the sale? Is it sold? Can he do that?

So, anyway, with some unanswered questions in my head, I figured there might be a thread about it where people in the know could post information about what they know. For now, it's off to google to see if I can find out more.
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Old 31st July 2020, 11:54 PM   #2
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While I admit I had never heard of this app till a few months ago as I really can't be ****** watching dumb tiny videos.

I remember a warning coming out a couple of weeks ago advising people to Uninstall the thing due to security issues?

Might be wrong. But have a fairly reliable memory
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With todayís Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 1st August 2020, 09:16 AM   #3
Meadmaker
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
While I admit I had never heard of this app till a few months ago as I really can't be ****** watching dumb tiny videos.

I remember a warning coming out a couple of weeks ago advising people to Uninstall the thing due to security issues?

Might be wrong. But have a fairly reliable memory
I did some more reading, and there was definitely good reason to not like the app. Basically, there is fear that the Chinese government is using it as spyware to gather data on Americans, and possibly to try to manipulate Americans by injecting misinformation.

Say it ain't so!

The thing I don't get is how this is different than FaceTwit. Because the people doing it are Chinese?

And the second thing I don't get is what "banning" means in this case, and under what authority the President can declare a program "banned". Generally, I feel like I ought to be allowed to install software on my computer, and I ought to be allowed to send it to a server if I feel like it.

I would welcome legislation that would help educate and protect consumers about when and how data is being shared. I know I'm pretty offended that I go onto Amazon and search for something, and suddenly that thing starts showing up in all sorts of advertisements on lots of other sites. Worse yet, I go to google and search for something medically related, and suddenly I'm getting ads for Depends. (That actually happened to me a couple of years back. I'm not sure exactly what search triggered it. All I know is that I get tons of ads for Depends. Hey stupid. Recalibrate your algorithms! There are some days when I feel that old, but in actuality I have several years before I'm eligible for Medicare.) I would love to see a combination of government and consumer initiatives that reduced data sharing by companies, but I'm not sure I'm any happier about Mark Zuckerberg seeing my data than I am about Chinese communists seeing my data.
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Old 1st August 2020, 10:08 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I did some more reading, and there was definitely good reason to not like the app. Basically, there is fear that the Chinese government is using it as spyware to gather data on Americans, and possibly to try to manipulate Americans by injecting misinformation.

Say it ain't so!

The thing I don't get is how this is different than FaceTwit. Because the people doing it are Chinese?
Basically,. yes. Facebook and twitter are private, US companies. TikTok is a company based in a foreign nation where big tech companies are only allowed to operate if they agree to share their data with the Chinese government.

China, let us not forget, is a dicatorship that is hostile to the US.

Quote:
And the second thing I don't get is what "banning" means in this case, and under what authority the President can declare a program "banned".
I don't know about the authority, but the "banning" is to force ByteDance to sell all US operations of the app to an unaffiliated US company.

Quote:
I know I'm pretty offended that I go onto Amazon and search for something, and suddenly that thing starts showing up in all sorts of advertisements on lots of other sites.
Get thee a cookie/ad blocker. Blocking cookies should help reduce tracking, and an ad blocker will not only save you time, bandwidth, and make the internet a much nicer place to visit, but it'll also help protect your computer - as ads can contain malware.
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Last edited by Squeegee Beckenheim; 1st August 2020 at 10:10 AM.
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Old 1st August 2020, 10:30 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Get thee a cookie/ad blocker. Blocking cookies should help reduce tracking, and an ad blocker will not only save you time, bandwidth, and make the internet a much nicer place to visit, but it'll also help protect your computer - as ads can contain malware.
I suppose I should do this, just as a matter of principle. There's a certain amount that I don't mind sharing. I like that youtube suggests videos to me that are similar to videos that I've viewed before.

What it comes down to for me is that I don't mind data sharing within a site. I don't mind that Amazon makes recommendations based on products I have searched before. I certainly don't mind that ISF logs me in automatically without typing a username or password. I just don't like it when I go to sites and see ads for jewelry making equipment, and I know it's because I bought some bronze casting supplies at wish.com.

I suppose I should lock down some of that data just to make data sharing less lucrative.
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Old 1st August 2020, 10:51 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I suppose I should do this, just as a matter of principle. There's a certain amount that I don't mind sharing. I like that youtube suggests videos to me that are similar to videos that I've viewed before.
Then whitelist those sites.

Quote:
What it comes down to for me is that I don't mind data sharing within a site. I don't mind that Amazon makes recommendations based on products I have searched before. I certainly don't mind that ISF logs me in automatically without typing a username or password.
Then allow some sites some cookies and disallow others.

Quote:
I just don't like it when I go to sites and see ads for jewelry making equipment, and I know it's because I bought some bronze casting supplies at wish.com.
Then block ads.
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Old 1st August 2020, 02:30 PM   #7
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Poutraged pedantic posters demanding the aforementioned ban in 10, 9, 8 .... tik tok!
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Old 1st August 2020, 02:58 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I did some more reading, and there was definitely good reason to not like the app. Basically, there is fear that the Chinese government is using it as spyware to gather data on Americans, and possibly to try to manipulate Americans by injecting misinformation.

Say it ain't so!

The thing I don't get is how this is different than FaceTwit. Because the people doing it are Chinese?

And the second thing I don't get is what "banning" means in this case, and under what authority the President can declare a program "banned". Generally, I feel like I ought to be allowed to install software on my computer, and I ought to be allowed to send it to a server if I feel like it.

I would welcome legislation that would help educate and protect consumers about when and how data is being shared. I know I'm pretty offended that I go onto Amazon and search for something, and suddenly that thing starts showing up in all sorts of advertisements on lots of other sites. Worse yet, I go to google and search for something medically related, and suddenly I'm getting ads for Depends. (That actually happened to me a couple of years back. I'm not sure exactly what search triggered it. All I know is that I get tons of ads for Depends. Hey stupid. Recalibrate your algorithms! There are some days when I feel that old, but in actuality I have several years before I'm eligible for Medicare.) I would love to see a combination of government and consumer initiatives that reduced data sharing by companies, but I'm not sure I'm any happier about Mark Zuckerberg seeing my data than I am about Chinese communists seeing my data.

Hate the Orange Man all you like, the app spies on you for a Foreign Government, there's a legitimate reason to ban the thing.
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Old 1st August 2020, 03:03 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Hate the Orange Man all you like, the app spies on you for a Foreign Government, there's a legitimate reason to ban the thing.
Whoosh!
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Old 1st August 2020, 03:37 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
... I don't know about the authority, but the "banning" is to force ByteDance to sell all US operations of the app to an unaffiliated US company.
I see. Still, does it need to be US owned for people to use the ap?
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 1st August 2020, 03:39 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Hate the Orange Man all you like, the app spies on you for a Foreign Government, there's a legitimate reason to ban the thing.
Because no one else collecting data on everyone would sell access to China?
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 1st August 2020, 03:41 PM   #12
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I applaud Trump for this bold declaration! The economy is spiralling down around our ears, an uncontrolled pandemic is killing us off, life is turned upside-down, and only Trump is brave enough to focus on a video-making joke app for tweens. Truly an act of leadership worthy of Trump.

Next let's see him address the controversial question of where the dividing line in Reddit is between instantkarma and instantregret. That's a doozy.
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Old 1st August 2020, 03:43 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Because no one else collecting data on everyone would sell access to China?
No they all do, and it's likely about competition to, but.... do you really want a foreign dictatorship harvesting your data. Stick with the home team evil!
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Old 1st August 2020, 03:45 PM   #14
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Purely from a personal user experience point of view when comes to taking and using and selling personal information.

Facebook and Google would probably top the list.

But hey. They are American so must be as clean as the driven snow
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With todayís Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 1st August 2020, 03:48 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Purely from a personal user experience point of view when comes to taking and using and selling personal information.

Facebook and Google would probably top the list.

But hey. They are American so must be as clean as the driven snow
No, just the home team.
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Old 1st August 2020, 03:54 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
No, just the home team.
Lol

Yes because US multi nationals have such a great history of being honest and non corrupt for a buck or two!
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With todayís Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 1st August 2020, 04:04 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I suppose I should do this, just as a matter of principle. There's a certain amount that I don't mind sharing. I like that youtube suggests videos to me that are similar to videos that I've viewed before.

As long as the videos you have viewed before were ones you also viewed on YT then ad blockers won't change that.

Quote:
What it comes down to for me is that I don't mind data sharing within a site. I don't mind that Amazon makes recommendations based on products I have searched before. I certainly don't mind that ISF logs me in automatically without typing a username or password.

It's "cookies" which enable that behavior. Not ads. Ad blockers won't change that. Blocking cookies will. Mostly you do that with your browser.

Quote:
I just don't like it when I go to sites and see ads for jewelry making equipment, and I know it's because I bought some bronze casting supplies at wish.com.

I suppose I should lock down some of that data just to make data sharing less lucrative.

I use AdBlockPlus, Ghostery, and HostMan. They seem to do a fairly good job, and provide for easy temporary disengagement or whitelisting when there is a site I really want to look at that gets blocked by them.

UBlock is also spoken of highly.
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Old 1st August 2020, 04:11 PM   #18
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I use cookie blocking, ad blocking and image download blocking.

Makes for a better experience and you can turn each off for different sites or session (white list).

Only downside is a lot of sites now won't show you the content till you turn off cookie blocking. Which normally is fine, but some are news media, which I want to read, so just switch it off for that site
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With todayís Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 1st August 2020, 05:04 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
No they all do, and it's likely about competition to, but.... do you really want a foreign dictatorship harvesting your data. Stick with the home team evil!


So they get the data anyway and you think there's a difference?
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ORANGE MAN BAD? Why yes, yes he is.

Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 2nd August 2020, 01:15 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I use AdBlockPlus, Ghostery, and HostMan.
There are question marks about whether or not Ghostery sells your data. They certainly have an opt-in where you can allow your data to be sold, but there have also been analyses where it phones home often when it doesn't need to at all, and it's suspected that this is also data collection.

Quote:
UBlock is also spoken of highly.
Specifically uBlock Origin. uBlock used to be great, but then they entered into partnerships with certain advertisers and now allow through adverts from specific agencies. One of the original developers hated this, so forked it into uBlock Origin. uMatrix, from the same developer, gives you a lot of control over what you do and do not allow your browser to do.
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Old 2nd August 2020, 02:18 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Trump said he was going to ban TikTok.
I'm sure the idea has nothing at all to do with the fact that a bunch of teenage TikTokers caused him a great deal of embarrassment at the rally hardly anyone turned up to.

Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Hate the Orange Man all you like, the app spies on you for a Foreign Government, there's a legitimate reason to ban the thing.
Hell yes!

The Chinese government and military are really interested in 10-second videos of kids eating strange food and twerking.

Could bring down the entire western world, that kind of thing.
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Old 2nd August 2020, 02:27 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
I'm sure the idea has nothing at all to do with the fact that a bunch of teenage TikTokers caused him a great deal of embarrassment at the rally hardly anyone turned up to.







Hell yes!



The Chinese government and military are really interested in 10-second videos of kids eating strange food and twerking.



Could bring down the entire western world, that kind of thing.
10 second videos....... Perhaps someone in the White House remembers watching the documentary Max Headroom.

ETA come to think of it a 10 second video of Trump twerking would probably be a blipvert.
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Old 2nd August 2020, 04:43 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Hate the Orange Man all you like, the app spies on you for a Foreign Government, there's a legitimate reason to ban the thing.
You do realise that the USA is "a foreign government" for everywhere else in the world except the USA? So FaceBook, Twitter, Tik Tok, EVERYTHING not in our country is potential spyware against our country.

Even this very forum we are typing on now could be checking out what we see, what we say, who we talk to and what we do, and reporting it to some massive underground database in a bunker under a Colorado mountain.

And there's ****-all we can do about it.
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Old 2nd August 2020, 07:19 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
You do realise that the USA is "a foreign government" for everywhere else in the world except the USA? So FaceBook, Twitter, Tik Tok, EVERYTHING not in our country is potential spyware against our country.

Even this very forum we are typing on now could be checking out what we see, what we say, who we talk to and what we do, and reporting it to some massive underground database in a bunker under a Colorado mountain.

And there's ****-all we can do about it.
if you're not in the US, then its not something for you to worry about then, is it??
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Old 2nd August 2020, 12:06 PM   #25
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I expect that Trump will announce his 'TikTok Ban' shortly after some disturbing news arises that he wishes distract the public about.

Just like the other day when some of the worst economic news in decades was released, then within a matter of minutes Trump asked about delaying the election.
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On 15 FEB 2019 'BobTheCoward' said: "I constantly assert I am a fool."
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Old 2nd August 2020, 12:09 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
I expect that Trump will announce his 'TikTok Ban' shortly after some disturbing news arises that he wishes distract the public about.

Just like the other day when some of the worst economic news in decades was released, then within a matter of minutes Trump asked about delaying the election.
There will be no delay, even the GOP said hell no to that.
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Old 2nd August 2020, 12:16 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
I expect that Trump will announce his 'TikTok Ban' shortly after some disturbing news arises that he wishes distract the public about.

Just like the other day when some of the worst economic news in decades was released, then within a matter of minutes Trump asked about delaying the election.
The speculation I've seen is that it was to distract from his latest financial disclosures on Friday.
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Old 2nd August 2020, 01:36 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
You do realise that the USA is "a foreign government" for everywhere else in the world except the USA? So FaceBook, Twitter, Tik Tok, EVERYTHING not in our country is potential spyware against our country.

Even this very forum we are typing on now could be checking out what we see, what we say, who we talk to and what we do, and reporting it to some massive underground database in a bunker under a Colorado mountain.

And there's ****-all we can do about it.
A couple of years ago, before the beginning of the second semester, I got an email from our administration telling me that my course had been identified as a course that the university considers "attendance critical" in that there is a high degree of correlation between attendance and success in the course. I was like, that's great to hear, but how in the blazes would you know that? I don't even take attendance.

What they did was to to track student phone logins in the wifi servers in the classroom where the class was held, so they (largely) knew who was there and who wasn't. You could claim that the university is spying on them, but the university's position is that the students are logging into their servers, and so it's the students who are telling us where they are.

I tell my students this story every semester, just to remind them that they have an electronic signature every where they go. If they don't like that, their option is to turn off their phone and electronic devices.

There's not ****-all we can do about it. But we choose not to do anything about it. The alternative is not as beneficial.
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Old 2nd August 2020, 03:52 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
There will be no delay, even the GOP said hell no to that.
I do not know what you are talking about.

The Trump TicTok Ban has already been delayed, so your claim about "no delay" of the Trump TicTok is quite incorrect.
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On 05 FEB 2019, President Donald Trump said in his Sate of the Union Address: "If there is going to be peace and legislation, there cannot be war and investigation."
On 15 FEB 2019 'BobTheCoward' said: "I constantly assert I am a fool."
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Old 2nd August 2020, 04:35 PM   #30
Meadmaker
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
I do not know what you are talking about.

The Trump TicTok Ban has already been delayed, so your claim about "no delay" of the Trump TicTok is quite incorrect.
He was referring to no delay of the election.
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Old 2nd August 2020, 04:37 PM   #31
crescent
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post



I don't know about the authority, but the "banning" is to force ByteDance to sell all US operations of the app to an unaffiliated US company.
The current news reports say that the administration has blocked a deal that would allow the sale of the app to Microsoft, so it seems more and more like an actual ban.
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Old 2nd August 2020, 08:52 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Hell yes!

The Chinese government and military are really interested in 10-second videos of kids eating strange food and twerking.

Could bring down the entire western world, that kind of thing.
Itís odd that you think this is the only sort of data TikTok has access to and control of.
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Old 2nd August 2020, 09:11 PM   #33
Norman Alexander
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
if you're not in the US, then its not something for you to worry about then, is it??
OK, let me know when you catch up...

How is ANY ban on Tik Tok or anything else hosted from China going to be enforceable? Not just legally but technically?
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Old 2nd August 2020, 09:14 PM   #34
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
OK, let me know when you catch up...

How is ANY ban on Tik Tok or anything else hosted from China going to be enforceable? Not just legally but technically?
Itís probably easier to do technically than legally. Social media apps have to talk to a known server. Block network access to that server, and you disable the apps.
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Old 2nd August 2020, 09:18 PM   #35
Norman Alexander
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Itís probably easier to do technically than legally. Social media apps have to talk to a known server. Block network access to that server, and you disable the apps.
That "known server" is actually a bunch of load-sharing devices. Multiple levels deep, quite possibly. How would you know which server and where in the world (or off it) is really hosting your silly dance video?
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Old 2nd August 2020, 09:50 PM   #36
cullennz
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Itís probably easier to do technically than legally. Social media apps have to talk to a known server. Block network access to that server, and you disable the apps.
I think most people have heard of VPN by now.
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Old 2nd August 2020, 11:19 PM   #37
arthwollipot
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I think most people have heard of VPN by now.
You'd think wrongly. Most people with some technical background have, sure. But there are millions of people who would have no clue what you're talking about.
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Old 2nd August 2020, 11:22 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
You'd think wrongly. Most people with some technical background have, sure. But there are millions of people who would have no clue what you're talking about.
Fair point probably
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Old 2nd August 2020, 11:54 PM   #39
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Practically India already did this and VPN apparently do not work to by pass ban.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53621492
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Old 2nd August 2020, 11:57 PM   #40
Squeegee Beckenheim
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
The current news reports say that the administration has blocked a deal that would allow the sale of the app to Microsoft, so it seems more and more like an actual ban.
Actually, current reports are that Microsoft will try to buy it.

I would assume the former is Trump just being Trump and spitting out hot air.
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