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Old 31st July 2020, 05:18 AM   #201
Armitage72
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
It's strange that wearing that getup to a store six months ago would probably have generated a call to the police.

Some people still try to use that as an excuse. A month or two ago, a campground in Wisconsin announced that masks wouldn't be allowed in their facilities, and wearing one would be considered a robbery attempt and "treated appropriately".
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Old 31st July 2020, 05:57 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Baseball cap. You need a baseball cap. (Obviously not a red one. Everyone knows that a red cap combined with any mask just attracts viruses like a bees to flowers. That's why you never see them worn together.)

It's strange that wearing that getup to a store six months ago would probably have generated a call to the police.
I do wonder how many women who choose to wear burkas are laughing now!
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Old 31st July 2020, 06:31 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
Some people still try to use that as an excuse. A month or two ago, a campground in Wisconsin announced that masks wouldn't be allowed in their facilities, and wearing one would be considered a robbery attempt and "treated appropriately".

I'd mentioned in one of the other threads when the above was pointed out that my bank won't let me in without a mask. Bank : no mask = keep out. Campground : mask = you must be here to rob us. Of all those sacks of cash that campgrounds famously store in their vault tents. SMH.
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Old 31st July 2020, 06:59 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
woa, I said my natural reaction to emotional situations was to go into 'lets fix it' mode rather than pat on the back need a cuddle mode.
Please link to the thread you started about how your fertilizer moment fixed the cancer. Genuinely interested.

Quote:
You've turned that into a label thing, the enemy are those pesky 'problem solvers'.
We are all people. stop being so divisive.
I created an accurate label to discuss actions within the MA. If you feel it applies to you, then that is on you.

Do you feel problem solvers are generally the type of people that illicit open communication about problems that are particularly engrained in our societal fabric?
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Old 31st July 2020, 07:20 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I do wonder how many women who choose to wear burkas are laughing now!

Muslim women who cover their faces find greater acceptance among coronavirus masks – ‘Nobody is giving me dirty looks’

That's referring to the niqab though.
It looks like, in parts of Europe, wearing a cloth face covering is currently simultaneously mandatory and illegal.
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Old 31st July 2020, 02:42 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Please link to the thread you started about how your fertilizer moment fixed the cancer. Genuinely interested.
Yeah you missed the point.
The point I was making was that when I was told emotional things, I went into fix it mode instead of empathy mode.
At no point did I say my fix it mode would actually fix anything, It's like an emotional defense mechanism. Not the best apparently, as i'm learning.
giving them a hug might be better than fix it mode.

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Old 31st July 2020, 02:48 PM   #207
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The most important part of fixing anything is to understand it first. Knowing the scope of the problem, what's drawn into it, what it's covering. If the problem has anything to do with humans, then emotion is going to be an integral part of the problem and will have to be addressed along with it. Shying away from others' emotions is in itself an emotional reaction, because we, the problem solver, are made part of the problem merely by getting close to it. What I'm saying is that emotion is a tool in the fixer toolkit, it's not a confounding variable.
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Old 31st July 2020, 02:53 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I do wonder how many women who choose to wear burkas are laughing now!
It's quite hard to tell.
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Old 31st July 2020, 03:15 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
Yeah you missed the point.
Not really. But that's not a problem.

Quote:
The point I was making was that when I was told emotional things, I went into fix it mode instead of empathy mode.
The point is, as Silly Green Monkey points out, when it comes to people there is no such thing as a "fix it" mode that lacks empathy. Without empathy you can't know what needs fixing. Without empathy you can't consider what solutions will never be acceptable. Without empathy you can't determine what information is really useful.

Quote:
At no point did I say my fix it mode would actually fix anything, It's like an emotional defense mechanism. Not the best apparently, as i'm learning.
giving them a hug might be better than fix it mode.
Oh, so a fix it mode that doesn't actually fix anything? Do you work for Microsoft? DON'T answer that question. Poor form for me to even ask. Sorry to bring up such inflammatory accusations, you don't deserve that. Accept my sincere apologies.

Look, one of the insidious things about bringing a "fix it mode" to every problem is that it makes everyone's problem about you and your attempts to solve the problem. It is counter intuitive, because you feel like you are focusing on that person and their problem, but to the person with the problem it becomes all about you and your solution. The story is never about the fair maiden, but the hero who comes to the rescue.

Sometimes we don't need a hero, we just need someone to commiserate with. Sometimes you just want your kid to understand that things are going to get tough and mom is going to need some help and you are really sorry about it.

Sometimes.
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Old 31st July 2020, 03:19 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
This was why the mention of the therapist intrigued me. I wondered if it would be taken as a therapeutic opportunity, such as to try to transpose your newly discovered masked attitude into your unmasked life, or to re-evaluate the apparent inconsistency(s?) in your risk assessment process.

The language you have used here often does not look that way.

If you don't mean to make accusations against all men, then some reconsideration of your communication would be in order, because, as it stands so far, you're making accusations against all men, whether you feel/intend it that way or not.
Allow me to mansplain what you are clearly manmisunderstanding.

The quotes you offer don't indict all men as evil predators. They indict a man-controlled reality in which any given man might be a predator or at least a source of harassment for any woman he finds at least somewhat sexually attractive. The frequency of the milder forms of harassment (whistling, ostentatious leering, etc.) means that women are often made to feel like they have to treat every man as a potential threat. Again, that doesn't mean that every man actually is a potential threat, but many women feel safer treating all men as such because of the prevalence of sexual harassment and anti-woman violence in our society.

If you feel you're being targeted by MoeFaux's words, it's possible that you are walking through life wearing blinders to the social problems women have to face every day, or perhaps you engage in behaviors that you need to rethink.
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Old 31st July 2020, 03:26 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Not really. But that's not a problem.



The point is, as Silly Green Monkey points out, when it comes to people there is no such thing as a "fix it" mode that lacks empathy. Without empathy you can't know what needs fixing. Without empathy you can't consider what solutions will never be acceptable. Without empathy you can't determine what information is really useful.



Oh, so a fix it mode that doesn't actually fix anything? Do you work for Microsoft? DON'T answer that question. Poor form for me to even ask. Sorry to bring up such inflammatory accusations, you don't deserve that. Accept my sincere apologies.

Look, one of the insidious things about bringing a "fix it mode" to every problem is that it makes everyone's problem about you and your attempts to solve the problem. It is counter intuitive, because you feel like you are focusing on that person and their problem, but to the person with the problem it becomes all about you and your solution. The story is never about the fair maiden, but the hero who comes to the rescue.

Sometimes we don't need a hero, we just need someone to commiserate with. Sometimes you just want your kid to understand that things are going to get tough and mom is going to need some help and you are really sorry about it.


Sometimes.
I agree, which was the point of my previous post, you have put it much more eloquently than I did so thank you for agreeing.
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Old 31st July 2020, 03:36 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Allow me to mansplain what you are clearly manmisunderstanding.

The quotes you offer don't indict all men as evil predators. They indict a man-controlled reality in which any given man might be a predator or at least a source of harassment for any woman he finds at least somewhat sexually attractive. The frequency of the milder forms of harassment (whistling, ostentatious leering, etc.) means that women are often made to feel like they have to treat every man as a potential threat. Again, that doesn't mean that every man actually is a potential threat, but many women feel safer treating all men as such because of the prevalence of sexual harassment and anti-woman violence in our society.

If you feel you're being targeted by MoeFaux's words, it's possible that you are walking through life wearing blinders to the social problems women have to face every day, or perhaps you engage in behaviors that you need to rethink.
Eh?
using your logic, some black people are a potential threat, so treating all black people as a potential threat is ok?

throwing the mansplaining into the poisoned well was a good touch though.
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Old 31st July 2020, 03:36 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
I agree, which was the point of my previous post, you have put it much more eloquently than I did so thank you for agreeing.
<<Hugs>>
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Old 31st July 2020, 03:41 PM   #214
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Went to the post office today to pick up a parcel. The postal clerk asked me for photo ID - standard procedure. She did not ask me to remove my mask.
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Old 31st July 2020, 03:47 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
Eh?
using your logic, some black people are a potential threat, so treating all black people as a potential threat is ok?
If black people were actually attacking white people at as high a rate as men were attacking women, there might be something to having that attitude, yes.

And, to be clear, I'm a man and so a step removed from fully understanding the fear that many women feel towards men. However, since I know women who have been sexually assaulted and more than that who have been sexually harassed, I can at least understand the feeling and manage to get through life not feeling like women who express that feeling are telling me that I'm bad because of my Y chromosome. I think that those who do react that way are either childish or have a guilty conscience.
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Old 31st July 2020, 04:32 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Went to the post office today to pick up a parcel. The postal clerk asked me for photo ID - standard procedure. She did not ask me to remove my mask.
She must have been entranced by your beautiful eyes!
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Old 31st July 2020, 07:50 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Yeah, speaking of shifting the goalposts, no-one said that most women suffer sexual assault on an almost daily basis, they have stated that most women face sexual harassment on almost a daily basis. Learn the difference.
"We (men) can afford to be dismissive of “just” a bit of a creep following them home, or “just” a leer, or “just” a hand gesture, or “just” an up skirt photo, “just” a hand on your arse, “just” brushing up against you on a crowded train - because it does not happen to us on practically a daily basis."

I'd say quite a bit of that statement is sexual assault.
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Old 31st July 2020, 07:59 PM   #218
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4062022/

Interesting study.
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Old 31st July 2020, 08:04 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
"We (men) can afford to be dismissive of “just” a bit of a creep following them home, or “just” a leer, or “just” a hand gesture, or “just” an up skirt photo, “just” a hand on your arse, “just” brushing up against you on a crowded train - because it does not happen to us on practically a daily basis."

I'd say quite a bit of that statement is sexual assault.
Since when are leers and hand gestures sexual assault? I'd also point out that the other two things, plenty of women suffer those every single day, just not the same women every day. The leers, suggestive comments, hand gestures, wolf whistles. Those are an every day thing.
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Old 31st July 2020, 08:18 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
The perpetual whinge of "But men get sexually harassed too!" whenever it's brought up that men need to stop treating women as nothing more than a piece of meat.

If you want to discuss men being sexually harassed, go for it, start a thread. Heck I was sexually harassed by a woman in one of my work places, but you know what I don't have to do, try and obfuscate that women get harassed on a major basis by waving my harassment in the way as if to say I have it worse that they do.
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Old 31st July 2020, 09:31 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
since I know women who have been sexually assaulted and more than that who have been sexually harassed, I can at least understand the feeling and manage to get through life not feeling like women who express that feeling are telling me that I'm bad because of my Y chromosome.
It's simple English comprehension. Anybody who doesn't want people to think (s)he's saying X is responsible for simply not saying X himself/herself. I see no value in pretending that what somebody really meant must somehow really be a preferable alternative to what (s)he actually said.

Last edited by Delvo; 31st July 2020 at 10:02 PM.
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Old 31st July 2020, 09:40 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Since when are leers and hand gestures sexual assault? I'd also point out that the other two things, plenty of women suffer those every single day, just not the same women every day. The leers, suggestive comments, hand gestures, wolf whistles. Those are an every day thing.
Other two things? You mean "just” an up skirt photo, “just” a hand on your arse, “just” brushing up against you on a crowded train"?

So do you agree that most women do not suffer these things an "almost daily basis"? If you don't, lets see a source and put this argument to bed once and for all.
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Old 31st July 2020, 09:44 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
The perpetual whinge of "But men get sexually harassed too!" whenever it's brought up that men need to stop treating women as nothing more than a piece of meat.

If you want to discuss men being sexually harassed, go for it, start a thread. Heck I was sexually harassed by a woman in one of my work places, but you know what I don't have to do, try and obfuscate that women get harassed on a major basis by waving my harassment in the way as if to say I have it worse that they do.
Whinge just lol. I love the way you have twisted to what was being discussed to " that women get harassed on a major basis". No-one has said that female harassment isn't an issue and one that needs to be addressed. Seriously, if you are just going to be disingenuous, then there really is not point discussing this is there?

In-fact, forget it. I've made my point and I really can't be arsed anymore. Feel free to have the last word.
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Old 1st August 2020, 12:17 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Can we return to the topic of the thread. thanks. I was getting tired of this anti-men circlejerk.
I'm going to point out here that I didn't deviate from the thread with my initial post. It became a circlejerk when the men who responded to me negatively in the thread began angrily picking apart what I said. I also attempted several times to redirect to the thread topic.

Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
Anyhow! Here's a cartoon relevant to my initial post about how great it is to not have to smile at men now that I'm wearing a mask!
Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
Back to my original post again, about how I was enjoying not having to smile. I am looking for that compilation of first cat-calling incident. But this was the first thing that came up for recent news for that search:
From "Coronavirus catcalling is real. Mask or no mask, harassment is all about power."
"I had hoped that wearing a mask would have done more than just protect myself, my family and others from COVID-19. Perhaps, I thought, a sliver of a silver lining would be the ability to take up space in public without a male stranger urging me to smile or whistling as I walked by.
But I was wrong...
Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
In an unrelated note, related to the thread OP:
When you're wearing a mask, it soaks up whatever stray tears fall from your eyes.
Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
With regard to my initial post, I found that wearing a mask gave me a feeling of protection, that I didn't feel as vulnerable. I felt stronger in my veiled anonymity.
That there are some male posters who keep disagreeing with my experience, who want to argue about why I was wrong, who continue to beat a dead horse, well, it is interesting.

Anyone who wishes to discuss it further can certainly begin a new thread. Perhaps it can be titled, "The Female Perception of the Male Gaze," or "Why Are Women Saying They're Uncomfortable Around Men They Don't Know," or "Gee Whiz, Are Women Really Feeling Harassed by Men Daily?"

It does seem to be a topic which is generating enough posts to warrant a separate thread. It was an unintended result of my post that I stirred up a hornet's nest.

Here, I'll agree with Venom. Sticking to topic seems fine by me.

Some other unintended results of wearing a mask? Let me think of some which haven't happened to me:

* Weird tan line on face
* Never have to worry about stuff stuck in teeth
* Anxiety over something being in your nose while talking to your crush, gone
* Your new friends have no idea what you look like
* Can stick your tongue out at people, unbeknownst to them
* Actual super powers related to being masked
* Can try out that crazy lipstick without anyone knowing
* Now you can look like the doctor your mother always said you should be
* When your husband reads what your mask says, you can say, "My boobs are *down here!"*
* Perfect for advertising, it's a billboard for your face
* You can cosplay a bandit every day of your life now, take that mom
* That bandana look also great for pretending to be a cowboy, yeehaw
* No more covering your mouth when you yawn with your feeble hands, it's mask time now
* Those custom masks will let everyone who sees you know you're a nerd, just as you hoped
* It's totally okay to make faces at babies now
* You get so used to making a disgust face behind the mask that it sticks, it's your face now
* The air of mystery is really good for your personal brand
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Old 1st August 2020, 05:09 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
...
Some other unintended results of wearing a mask? Let me think of some which haven't happened to me:
...
That's good enough for an article on Cracked. (meme website)
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Old 1st August 2020, 05:35 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
It was an unintended result of my post that I stirred up a hornet's nest.
The original post here was on the same subject as yours.
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Old 1st August 2020, 06:01 AM   #227
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Unintended result : now when I go to the gym I can tell precisely how well I'd brushed my teeth earlier.
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Old 1st August 2020, 06:36 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by MoeFaux View Post
I'm going to point out here that I didn't deviate from the thread with my initial post. It became a circlejerk when the men who responded to me negatively in the thread began angrily picking apart what I said. I also attempted several times to redirect to the thread topic.








That there are some male posters who keep disagreeing with my experience, who want to argue about why I was wrong, who continue to beat a dead horse, well, it is interesting.

Anyone who wishes to discuss it further can certainly begin a new thread. Perhaps it can be titled, "The Female Perception of the Male Gaze," or "Why Are Women Saying They're Uncomfortable Around Men They Don't Know," or "Gee Whiz, Are Women Really Feeling Harassed by Men Daily?"

It does seem to be a topic which is generating enough posts to warrant a separate thread. It was an unintended result of my post that I stirred up a hornet's nest.

Here, I'll agree with Venom. Sticking to topic seems fine by me.

Some other unintended results of wearing a mask? Let me think of some which haven't happened to me:

* Weird tan line on face
* Never have to worry about stuff stuck in teeth
* Anxiety over something being in your nose while talking to your crush, gone
* Your new friends have no idea what you look like
* Can stick your tongue out at people, unbeknownst to them
* Actual super powers related to being masked
* Can try out that crazy lipstick without anyone knowing
* Now you can look like the doctor your mother always said you should be
* When your husband reads what your mask says, you can say, "My boobs are *down here!"*
* Perfect for advertising, it's a billboard for your face
* You can cosplay a bandit every day of your life now, take that mom
* That bandana look also great for pretending to be a cowboy, yeehaw
* No more covering your mouth when you yawn with your feeble hands, it's mask time now
* Those custom masks will let everyone who sees you know you're a nerd, just as you hoped
* It's totally okay to make faces at babies now
* You get so used to making a disgust face behind the mask that it sticks, it's your face now
* The air of mystery is really good for your personal brand
You could actually just start a thread?
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 1st August 2020, 02:37 PM   #229
p0lka
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
If black people were actually attacking white people at as high a rate as men were attacking women, there might be something to having that attitude, yes.

And, to be clear, I'm a man and so a step removed from fully understanding the fear that many women feel towards men. However, since I know women who have been sexually assaulted and more than that who have been sexually harassed, I can at least understand the feeling and manage to get through life not feeling like women who express that feeling are telling me that I'm bad because of my Y chromosome. I think that those who do react that way are either childish or have a guilty conscience.
Good for you, some of that was covered previously.

My issue is with some people speaking for all, for instance feeling going to the shops is like an infiltration event, complete with hiding in the parking lot after.
that's not a normal day for the some people they are speaking for.

Sometimes one has to just accept their personal experience doesn't always reflect the group they've attached themselves to.
And there's nothing wrong with that.
Individualism is cool.
But don't speak for everyone.

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Old 1st August 2020, 03:02 PM   #230
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000

Last edited by cullennz; 1st August 2020 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 1st August 2020, 03:18 PM   #231
p0lka
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Originally Posted by AnonyMoose View Post
Yes, and that loss of childhood innocence is usually somewhere between the ages of 5 to 15.

Some of us are lucky enough to get through the first 15 years of our life before men start to remind us of what we're put on the planet for.... but most of us start getting reminded of our female duties before we've sprouted our first pubic hair.
I don't understand that, who does that, none of my kids had any gender roles, shouldn't happen.
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Old 1st August 2020, 06:18 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
I don't understand that, who does that, none of my kids had any gender roles, shouldn't happen.
Other kids for a start. Maybe it shouldn't happen, but closing your eyes, putting your hands over your ears and screaming "lalalalalalala" doesn't make it so.
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Old 2nd August 2020, 12:50 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
How come nobody's put face masks on their avatars yet?
Done.
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Old 2nd August 2020, 01:51 PM   #234
p0lka
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Other kids for a start. Maybe it shouldn't happen, but closing your eyes, putting your hands over your ears and screaming "lalalalalalala" doesn't make it so.
I'm paying more attention than you are, I'm definitely blaming the parents.
Shouldn't be pushing gender roles in the first place.
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Old 2nd August 2020, 01:52 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Done.
I don't think you're wearing it right...
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Old 2nd August 2020, 02:10 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
How come nobody's put face masks on their avatars yet?
The aurora boreal is would look odd with a mask.
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Old 2nd August 2020, 02:35 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I don't think you're wearing it right...
Evidently the new profile pic only shows up in my profile itself.

Ah well.
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Old 2nd August 2020, 07:24 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Evidently the new profile pic only shows up in my profile itself.

Ah well.
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Old 2nd August 2020, 07:27 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Go to User CP
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THANKS!



(Never even occurred to me that avatar and profile pic would be two different things.)
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Old 3rd August 2020, 03:09 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Oh, this will end well.
Nah. It ends quite simply. Most of the time I can glean when it's not worth engaging.
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