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Tags Jeffrey Epstein , sex offenders , sex trafficking

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Old 7th July 2020, 01:52 AM   #1281
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Warehouses criminals. "Warehouses prisoners" is kind of redundant. It's not like prison should be a revolving door. The whole point is to house them for some extended period of time.
Innocent until proven guilty?
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Old 7th July 2020, 05:08 AM   #1282
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Is anyone else here surprised that Maxwell was still in the US? She has plenty of international ties and money, I would have assumed she would have got out of dodge the day that Epstein got picked up and would be resting in a country without extradition by now.

I had assumed we'd never hear from her again.
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Old 7th July 2020, 07:28 AM   #1283
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Mod InfoThere is now a dedicated thread for discussion about Ghislaine Maxwell's arrest and so on: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=345268
Posted By:Darat
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Old 7th July 2020, 03:06 PM   #1284
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Huh? I guess it depends what’s on them, right?

Do we know what that is yet?
If it wasn't related to anything criminal why would anyone even mention it?
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Old 7th July 2020, 03:07 PM   #1285
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
If it wasn't related to anything criminal why would anyone even mention it?
Because they're just guessing?
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Old 8th July 2020, 09:29 AM   #1286
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Do they need grounds?

Why would his lawyers have any right to make "demands" about the steps taken by the jail authorities to ensure Epstein's safety? It isn't like the lawyers would be held responsible if something happened to him.
Epstein had civil right, exercised through his lawyers. A suicide watch is an intrusion that has to be justified.
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Old 8th July 2020, 11:08 AM   #1287
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
In England there isn't a single "suicide watch" regime there is a management process if I recall correctly it is known as ACCT. It is rare that a prisoner on "suicide watch" will be continually observed by prison staff, that is usually only for short periods of time, the more more standard approach would be to have agreed number of observations. And these aren't "every half an hour" they are "twice in a 60 minute period", this is to prevent a prisoner being able to learn when observations will happen and plan their suicide by the obs schedule. From what I understand something similar was in place for Epstein but they failed to follow their process, sadly this is all too common in England.
Indeed, Assessment, Care in Custody and Teamwork.
NOMS states that:
Quote:
Any prisoner identified as at risk of suicide or self-harm must be managed using the Assessment, Care in Custody and Teamwork (ACCT) procedures.

Any member of staff who receives information, including that from family members or external agencies, or observes behaviour which may indicate a risk of suicide/self-harm must open an ACCT by completing the Concern and Keep Safe form.
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Old 8th July 2020, 11:11 AM   #1288
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Such a move is considered extreme in the UK (should say E&W and Scotland - NI is often very different so read my use of UK here to mean E&W and Scotland only) and is only used in exceptional circumstances and again for as a short of possible. (As an example of extreme and exceptional circumstances, I know an anecdote of a prisoner who would when in crisis run headlong as fast as possible at the wall of his cell.) It is also very "resource" heavy as it requires someone to be continuously watching the CCTV feed 24 hours a day.
Even the use of 'gated' constant observation cells requires justification, authorisation and review.
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Old 10th July 2020, 11:35 AM   #1289
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I don't question that. But there is a fundamental difference between the concepts of "demand" and 'request'. If the authorities in charge of Epstein's incarceration could provide sufficient justification for heightened monitoring of his cell then his lawyers could "demand" as much as they wanted to. It wouldn't matter. Those lawyers are not in a position to make demands. They don't have that sort of authority. It is the custodians who have the legal responsibility for his welfare. If they fail in that then those same lawyers would be all over them for the failure.

Is the jail absolved of responsibility because Epstein's lawyers "demanded" that he be taken off of suicide watch?
There wasn’t a demand. Lawyers are required to advocate for their client. Epstein instructed them that he was fine. They cannot legally do anything other than present that to whatever authority they talk to.
Inmates sometimes commit suicide.

How often do jailers decide to set up a repeated pattern of behavior in order to set up an impossible murder for a potential future inmate?
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Old 10th July 2020, 11:43 AM   #1290
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
The issue is not one of whether or not it is possible for treatment alleged to be suicide prevention can be cruel and unusual punishment used for punitive and/or coercive purposes. I don't think anyone participating in this conversation believes it cannot be.

It is whether or not Epstein had been subjected to such treatment to the degree that his lawyers could present valid objections to them in a court of law ...

or if they were reasonable and prudent measures taken for the purpose of preventing harm to him by himself or others.

There is a difference, you know.

ETA: According to wiki, this was the sort of suicide watch Epstein endured;
As a result of the incident, Epstein was placed on suicide watch.[22] He was placed in an observation cell, surrounded by windows, where lights were left on and any devices that he could be use to take his own life were not permitted.[23] Psychological staff dismissed Epstein from suicide watch after six days following a psychiatric examination.
I'm not sure how much less could have been done and have it still qualify as a "suicide watch". It seems like a bare minimum to me.
That means you are naked (pants and shirts can be used to strangle one’s self,) and constantly watched.
That is torture by any definition.
Note, this probably was not the case, as the US penal system doesn’t give a single **** about the health of their inmates
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Old 10th July 2020, 12:11 PM   #1291
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Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
That means you are naked (pants and shirts can be used to strangle one’s self,) and constantly watched.
That is torture by any definition.
.....
Not necessarily. There is disposable clothing that tears too easily to be used that way, and there are also "suicide smocks" made of heavy padded canvas that also can't be used that way. And monitoring could be by camera, not by somebody in your face.

And in most prisons, overcrowding is a serious problem. It would be rare -- certainly not a standard practice -- for anyone who is not on suicide watch to be alone in his cell.

Prisoners don't have much expectation of privacy, especially when their lives are at risk, and keeping them alive is hardly torture. Throwing a prisoner into solitary confinement is much more damaging, and that's a routine, generally accepted practice.
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Old 10th July 2020, 07:49 PM   #1292
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Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
There wasn’t a demand. Lawyers are required to advocate for their client. Epstein instructed them that he was fine. They cannot legally do anything other than present that to whatever authority they talk to.

<snip>

I see that you agree with me, but also that you have not paid attention to the genesis of this digression.

I was quoting the use of the the word "demand". Directly in regard to my belief that Epstein's lawyers were not in a position to "demand" anything. And as a reply to someone who apparently believed they were.

I did not make up the use of that word out of whole cloth. And after I questioned it, its use was defended by others.

Your post should be directed to them.
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Old 13th July 2020, 04:09 AM   #1293
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Interesting episode of ALAB (All Lawyers Are Bastards) podcast about Deutsche Bank's relationship to Jeffrey Epstein, mostly focused on the numerous failures to meet compliance standards to prevent known pedophiles from using a bank for illegal activity.

https://www.alabseries.com/episodes/...-epsteins-bank

Deutsche Bank described as "bank of last resort for scumbags" given the long history of the bank working with known bad actors.
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Old 13th July 2020, 01:12 PM   #1294
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Thanks, I'll check it out. On the "Trump, Inc." podcast, one episode talks about how Trump defaulted on millions in loans for one project from Deutsche Bank, and a different arm of the bank then gave him more millions for a separate project, which he then defaulted on as well. Super Shady.
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Old 28th July 2020, 08:08 AM   #1295
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The government of the U.S. Virgin Islands is upping the ante in its quest to pierce the veil of secrecy that cloaked the life and wealth of financier Jeffrey Epstein, the deceased sex-offender who accrued a fortune of more than $650 million under mysterious circumstances.

At least ten financial institutions -- including Deutsche Bank, JPMorgan Chase and Citibank -- have been issued subpoenas in recent weeks from the office of USVI Attorney General Denise George, according to court filings reviewed by ABC News. The subpoenas seek account records, transaction details and communications concerning Epstein, his estate, and more than 30 corporations, trusts and nonprofit entities connected to him.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/virgin-isl...ry?id=72018117
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Old 28th July 2020, 11:31 AM   #1296
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Who is in charge of the island these days?
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Old 28th July 2020, 11:32 AM   #1297
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Who is in charge of the island these days?
Dershowitz lives there alone ever since he got chased off Martha's Vineyard.
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Old 28th July 2020, 12:35 PM   #1298
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Interesting episode of ALAB (All Lawyers Are Bastards) podcast about Deutsche Bank's relationship to Jeffrey Epstein, mostly focused on the numerous failures to meet compliance standards to prevent known pedophiles from using a bank for illegal activity.

https://www.alabseries.com/episodes/...-epsteins-bank

Deutsche Bank described as "bank of last resort for scumbags" given the long history of the bank working with known bad actors.
As a former fraud investigator I can tell you that pretty well all banks work with "known bad actors". To think otherwise is being incredibly naive.
Money is money and most banks and bankers certainly do not see themselves as moral arbiters.
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Old 28th July 2020, 12:38 PM   #1299
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
As a former fraud investigator I can tell you that pretty well all banks work with "known bad actors". To think otherwise is being incredibly naive.
Money is money and most banks and bankers certainly do not see themselves as moral arbiters.
Sure, but even among them, Deutsche bank is the least risk averse.

Deutsche bank is where Epstein went after JP Morgan closed his accounts because he was simply too toxic.
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Old 28th July 2020, 01:07 PM   #1300
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Sure, but even among them, Deutsche bank is the least risk averse.

Deutsche bank is where Epstein went after JP Morgan closed his accounts because he was simply too toxic.

Hilarious! Pure speculation and certainly not backed by any credible evidence.

All huge financial corporations/banks have major scandals and are tied to super-villains in many ways. JP Morgan's scandal sheet is just as long as Deutsche Bank's. All banks try and do things to pretend that they are socially aware. As a matter of fact - Deutsche Bank just announced that they are going "green" and not investing in Canada's oil sands projects or Arctic drilling.

There may have been many banks who wanted Epstein's money and there may have been a multitude of reasons why Epsteing chose that bank. You obviously know nothing about how banks will try and woo and steal very wealthy clients and just how competitive the banking market is for huge wealth/assets.

It appears you are doing nothing but throwing out baseless nonsense garnered by reading tabloid journalism.
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Old 28th July 2020, 01:12 PM   #1301
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
As a former fraud investigator I can tell you that pretty well all banks work with "known bad actors". To think otherwise is being incredibly naive.
Money is money and most banks and bankers certainly do not see themselves as moral arbiters.

There's a recent book called "Dark Towers" that describes the history of Deutsche Bank. It was notoriously more inclined to take money from known "bad actors," including Russian gangsters, than other banks. It's well-known that it was shoveling money to Trump at a time when all American banks had slammed their doors in his face.
https://www.npr.org/2020/02/19/80719...rump-s-secrets
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/14/b...ultPosition=10
https://www.theguardian.com/business...k-donald-trump

In the U.S., at least, banks have to comply with "know your customer" laws and regulations. Banks may associate with some bad actors, but they are required to at least try to avoid the worst.
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Old 28th July 2020, 01:13 PM   #1302
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Deutsche Bank is NOT the really major bank in Germany - that would be the Sparkassen and Volksbanken.
Deutsche Bank has long ago decided to make the fancy bucks in London and New York, without ever getting the necessary talent to do it well, which is why they had to REPEATEDLY pay fines for breaking the rules.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/b...ettlement.html

https://deutschebankmortgagemonitor....he-settlement/

nothing baseless about the facts.
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Old 28th July 2020, 01:19 PM   #1303
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
Hilarious! Pure speculation and certainly not backed by any credible evidence.
......
Absolutely true and documented. See my post above. That certainly doesn't mean it's the only corrupt operator.

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Old 28th July 2020, 03:48 PM   #1304
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Absolutely true and documented. See my post above. That certainly doesn't mean it's the only corrupt operator.
The point in question is the claim that Deutsche Bank is the "least risk averse".

So books are now considered some sort of documentary factual evidence.
You do realize you are on a sceptics board - right?
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Last edited by rockinkt; 28th July 2020 at 03:54 PM. Reason: clear up the point of contention
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Old 28th July 2020, 03:52 PM   #1305
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
There's a recent book called "Dark Towers" that describes the history of Deutsche Bank. It was notoriously more inclined to take money from known "bad actors," including Russian gangsters, than other banks. It's well-known that it was shoveling money to Trump at a time when all American banks had slammed their doors in his face.
https://www.npr.org/2020/02/19/80719...rump-s-secrets
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/14/b...ultPosition=10
https://www.theguardian.com/business...k-donald-trump

In the U.S., at least, banks have to comply with "know your customer" laws and regulations. Banks may associate with some bad actors, but they are required to at least try to avoid the worst.
And that same bank can have branches in other countries that do not have those same laws that can - and do - happily ignore that minor inconvenience.
Ever wonder why it is so easy to launder money?
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"I've met Bob Dylan's bodyguards and if Steve Earle thinks he can stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table, he's sadly mistaken." Townes Van Zandt
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Old 28th July 2020, 05:03 PM   #1306
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
The point in question is the claim that Deutsche Bank is the "least risk averse".

So books are now considered some sort of documentary factual evidence.
You do realize you are on a sceptics board - right?

Are you kidding? The book is a well-received, deeply reported investigation by an experienced financial journalist. What are your sources of information?
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Old 28th July 2020, 06:47 PM   #1307
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
The point in question is the claim that Deutsche Bank is the "least risk averse".

So books are now considered some sort of documentary factual evidence.
You do realize you are on a sceptics board - right?
On a skeptics board where, if you want to refute the validity of proposed evidence, you point out the errors and how they undermine the assertion made.

Also, uh yeah, books are documents.

Why is that even a question?
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Old 28th July 2020, 07:51 PM   #1308
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Are you kidding? The book is a well-received, deeply reported investigation by an experienced financial journalist. What are your sources of information?

I will repeat it and type slowly: The point in question is the claim that Deutsche Bank is the "least risk averse".

Please provide links to the specific claims made in the book you are peddling that state this fact and the comparative analysis it provides to prove the point.

Breathless hype by book reviewers is not evidence of anything.
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"I've met Bob Dylan's bodyguards and if Steve Earle thinks he can stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table, he's sadly mistaken." Townes Van Zandt
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Old 28th July 2020, 08:06 PM   #1309
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
On a skeptics board where, if you want to refute the validity of proposed evidence, you point out the errors and how they undermine the assertion made.

Also, uh yeah, books are documents.

Why is that even a question?
If a poster makes a claim as I was responding to - it is up to the maker of the claim to provide evidence of the claim. Please try to keep up.

I saw nothing in the second poster's claim other than the name of a book and a link to breathless reviews. That is not evidence.

I would suggest published papers in reputable peer reviewed journals are prima facie credible evidence. Books? Hilarious!
Until I see a proper analysis or a link to a specific passage with footnotes that explain the sources of any claims made in the book - I will take anything a book states with a grain of salt.

Are you going to start quoting from "The Sasquatch File" by John Green? It's a book - or a "document" as you claim.
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"I've met Bob Dylan's bodyguards and if Steve Earle thinks he can stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table, he's sadly mistaken." Townes Van Zandt

Last edited by rockinkt; 28th July 2020 at 08:08 PM.
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Old 28th July 2020, 08:08 PM   #1310
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I think that the position of treating every book as authoritative, and the position of treating no book as authoritative, are equally fallacious.

Of course you have to examine any book in question to determine how much stock to put in its information.
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Old 28th July 2020, 08:22 PM   #1311
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Investigative journalism is a great resource, and should never be confused with tabloid “journalism.”
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Old 29th July 2020, 06:20 AM   #1312
jimbob
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
The point in question is the claim that Deutsche Bank is the "least risk averse".

So books are now considered some sort of documentary factual evidence.
You do realize you are on a sceptics board - right?
Deutsche Bank has paid a lot of high-profile fines, which suggests they're doing something different to the other large international banks.

I'm sure that if one went to a bani kn Panama, for example, they might be less averse to money laundering, but seems silly to dismiss their past history even if the statement needed to narrow down to a select number of banks.
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link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
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US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 31st July 2020, 06:34 PM   #1313
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But I want to say one thing to the American people. I want you to listen to me. I'm going to say this again: I did not have sexual relations with those children.
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Old 31st July 2020, 07:50 PM   #1314
angrysoba
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
But I want to say one thing to the American people. I want you to listen to me. I'm going to say this again: I did not have sexual relations with those children.
Well okay then, Bogative, but no one was saying you did. Or did they?
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Old 31st July 2020, 09:11 PM   #1315
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Well okay then, Bogative, but no one was saying you did. Or did they?

Quote:
“When you were present with Jeffrey Epstein and Bill Clinton on the island, who else was there?” Scarola asked next.

Giuffre replied, “Ghislaine [Maxwell], Emmy, and there was two young girls that I could identify. I never really knew them well anyways. It was just 2 girls from New York.”
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politic...-girls-n736509
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Old 1st August 2020, 03:49 AM   #1316
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Are you hoping that someone is going to leap to Clinton's defence? Or is this simply trying to make Trump's close association with Epstein seem better because a Democratic president was also associated with him?

I suppose Clinton did say this about Epstein:

Quote:
"I've known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life."
And he did appoint one of the prosecutors who gave Epstein his unconstitutional plea-deal to his administration. Oh, and girls were also recruited out of Clinton's country club, Mar-A-Largo.

Oh, no wait. All of those are Trump.

I guess maybe Clinton being a scumbag doesn't mean that Trump isn't a scumbag after all.
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Old 5th August 2020, 12:56 PM   #1317
Wolrab
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Are you hoping that someone is going to leap to Clinton's defence? Or is this simply trying to make Trump's close association with Epstein seem better because a Democratic president was also associated with him?

I suppose Clinton did say this about Epstein:



And he did appoint one of the prosecutors who gave Epstein his unconstitutional plea-deal to his administration. Oh, and girls were also recruited out of Clinton's country club, Mar-A-Largo.

Oh, no wait. All of those are Trump.

I guess maybe Clinton being a scumbag doesn't mean that Trump isn't a scumbag after all.
And Trump went on Epstein's jet 27 times to Clinton's once (from Palm Beach to New York). Oh, no wait, the once was Trump and he had a falling out with Epstein and made the "he likes them young" comment.
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Old Yesterday, 01:23 AM   #1318
Squeegee Beckenheim
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
And Trump went on Epstein's jet 27 times to Clinton's once (from Palm Beach to New York). Oh, no wait, the once was Trump and he had a falling out with Epstein and made the "he likes them young" comment.
Are you hoping someone is going to leap to Clinton's defence?
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Old Yesterday, 04:27 AM   #1319
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Clinton finally getting flushed as a known sexual creep would be a bonus, not a negative. Maybe older Democrats might wring their hands about it, remembering the 90's with some nostalgia, but I don't think a lot of people are going to lose sleep over Bill being outed alongside Trump and the other pedos.
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Old Yesterday, 04:29 AM   #1320
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Are you hoping that someone is going to leap to Clinton's defence?
Imagine if liberals kept bringin up Nixon to diss the Republican party.

It's an obsession. They just can't let go of the Clintons.
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