ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 5th February 2020, 12:54 AM   #41
Elagabalus
Philosopher
 
Elagabalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,015
Lori and Chad must be stopped.
Elagabalus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2020, 12:57 AM   #42
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 25,615
Let's try to place this information into our timeline.

Lori, her brother, her niece, and the kids, moved to Rexburg at the end of August.

JJ was last seen by anyone outside the family on September 23, his last day at school in Rexburg. Lori withdrew him the next day saying she was going to homeschool him.

Just over a week later on October 1st, Lori rents the storage unit for the first time and various things are moved in and out over the next several days.

On October 19, Chad's then-wife Tammy dies. She's buried on October 22nd.

On October 28th, the children's bicycles are seen being placed in the unit by two unidentified men.

Sometime in the next month, Chad and Lori go to Hawaii to get married. During this time she is reportedly telling people that she has no minor children and that Tylee had "died years ago".

November 24 Lori and an unknown man visit the unit for the last time.

November 26 the police conduct the welfare check.

November 27 the couple have skipped town.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2020, 12:59 AM   #43
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: It was Lothian's idea
Posts: 11,238
Really, really stunned that Kauai PD can't arrest on behalf of Idaho PD for child abandonment. I mean, if JJ and Tylee are supposed to be in her care, and she cannot/will not produce them...I mean, how many paperwork technicalities could there possibly be? Idaho was able to execute a search warrant on behalf of Arizona, who didn't even have a dog in the race
__________________

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2020, 01:02 AM   #44
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: It was Lothian's idea
Posts: 11,238
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Let's try to place this information into our timeline.

Lori, her brother, her niece, and the kids, moved to Rexburg at the end of August.

JJ was last seen by anyone outside the family on September 23, his last day at school in Rexburg. Lori withdrew him the next day saying she was going to homeschool him.

Just over a week later on October 1st, Lori rents the storage unit for the first time and various things are moved in and out over the next several days.

On October 19, Chad's then-wife Tammy dies. She's buried on October 22nd.

On October 28th, the children's bicycles are seen being placed in the unit by two unidentified men.

Sometime in the next month, Chad and Lori go to Hawaii to get married. During this time she is reportedly telling people that she has no minor children and that Tylee had "died years ago".

November 24 Lori and an unknown man visit the unit for the last time.

November 26 the police conduct the welfare check.

November 27 the couple have skipped town.
Ya know, this is creeping me out even more. Till now, I felt confident it was Lori and Alex who were the Leatherface Siblings. But there are more?

eta: wonder if it could have been Chad and Alex, but not clear enough to identify?
__________________

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain

Last edited by Thermal; 5th February 2020 at 01:03 AM.
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2020, 01:17 AM   #45
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 25,615
Don't forget that Charles Vallow was killed, and Brandon Boudreaux was shot at, in Arizona.

It is possible that the Idaho police consider the Daybells to be fairly well sequestered. They're on a little island and almost certainly under surveillance, so they can't just disappear again or at least it's highly unlikely. So maybe they believe they have time to get alllll the legal t's crossed.

It may seem straightforward to you and me, but we are ignorant laymen. There may be some uncertainty around questions like, "exactly what circumstances give the state the authority to compel a parent who hasn't been charged with a crime to produce their children for government inspection?" and "does a distant relative's concern over lack of communication overrule an actual custodial parent's declaration that the children are safe and accounted for?" and "is the state allowed to assume abandonment when they don't factually know where the child is?". You and I can debate what the answers to these questions rightly should be, but what should be is meaningless if the law decides otherwise. The one thing we can say for sure is that if the police **** up their answers to these questions, in the worst case scenario the Daybells literally get away with murder.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2020, 01:22 AM   #46
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 25,615
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
eta: wonder if it could have been Chad and Alex, but not clear enough to identify?
I think that's a reasonable assumption. Chad and Alex are the only grown men involved (that aren't victims). The second unidentified man does not appear in the storage unit surveillance tapes until after Chad's wife dies.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2020, 06:02 AM   #47
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,485
Maybe I'm missing the plot.

If you have killed your children then why rent a storage space for their stuff instead of throwing it all away?
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2020, 07:39 AM   #48
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: It was Lothian's idea
Posts: 11,238
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Don't forget that Charles Vallow was killed, and Brandon Boudreaux was shot at, in Arizona.

It is possible that the Idaho police consider the Daybells to be fairly well sequestered. They're on a little island and almost certainly under surveillance, so they can't just disappear again or at least it's highly unlikely. So maybe they believe they have time to get alllll the legal t's crossed.

It may seem straightforward to you and me, but we are ignorant laymen. There may be some uncertainty around questions like, "exactly what circumstances give the state the authority to compel a parent who hasn't been charged with a crime to produce their children for government inspection?" and "does a distant relative's concern over lack of communication overrule an actual custodial parent's declaration that the children are safe and accounted for?" and "is the state allowed to assume abandonment when they don't factually know where the child is?". You and I can debate what the answers to these questions rightly should be, but what should be is meaningless if the law decides otherwise. The one thing we can say for sure is that if the police **** up their answers to these questions, in the worst case scenario the Daybells literally get away with murder.
Yeah, I was wondering upthread by what authority Idaho was demanding she produce the kids if the grandparents had not formally reported them as missing. And also not clear on why they executed a search warrant on behalf of Arizona. Did Arizona have a valid case pending the missing children? Otherwise, they were just named by Lori as the kids staying with someone there.

I certainly hope that while Idaho PD are crossing their Ts, something is not happening to the children...or to what remains of them...via unknown others. Lori and Chad would have an airtight alibi, being in Kauai, if the two unknown men are not who we provisionally assume they are.
__________________

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2020, 07:42 AM   #49
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: It was Lothian's idea
Posts: 11,238
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Maybe I'm missing the plot.

If you have killed your children then why rent a storage space for their stuff instead of throwing it all away?
Might raise a red flag amongst the townfolk if the kids possessions were seen on the curb on trash collection day.

What I wonder more about is that the unit was considered abandoned because Lori's credit card was declined. Yet they had ample cash to relocate to expensive digs in the islands. Almost like they wanted this outcome to unfold.
__________________

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2020, 07:51 AM   #50
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,485
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Might raise a red flag amongst the townfolk if the kids possessions were seen on the curb on trash collection day.
Is the curb the only way to discard the stuff?
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2020, 07:55 AM   #51
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: It was Lothian's idea
Posts: 11,238
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Is the curb the only way to discard the stuff?
If they suspected the police (or anyone) were suspicious of them, a trip to the dump or a ride in the woods would leave evidence behind. At least a storage unit bought time. Except that they must have known that little $53 payment was being declined, and they did nothing.
__________________

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2020, 08:10 AM   #52
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,485
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
If they suspected the police (or anyone) were suspicious of them, a trip to the dump or a ride in the woods would leave evidence behind. At least a storage unit bought time. Except that they must have known that little $53 payment was being declined, and they did nothing.
The lack of any "kid stuff" would be evidence itself.

I think that within a year they will be charged with murder. One of those cases of murder charges without bodies.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2020, 08:25 AM   #53
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: It was Lothian's idea
Posts: 11,238
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
The lack of any "kid stuff" would be evidence itself.
But there is certainly more stuff. The inventory said some winter clothes were in the Rubbermaid. The kids disappeared prior to winter, so their warmer-weather stuff is still out there somewhere, along with all the other stuff kids would accumulate. This is a limited selection, maybe stuff the grandparents bought, intended to be left for them to find, or something along those lines?

Quote:
I think that within a year they will be charged with murder. One of those cases of murder charges without bodies.
I think they'll be charged much sooner, if they don't go out in a blaze of glory.
__________________

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2020, 10:00 AM   #54
Elagabalus
Philosopher
 
Elagabalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,015
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I think that's a reasonable assumption. Chad and Alex are the only grown men involved (that aren't victims). The second unidentified man does not appear in the storage unit surveillance tapes until after Chad's wife dies.

There's also the niece's new husband who I assume is cult approved.
Elagabalus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2020, 12:32 PM   #55
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 25,615
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
And also not clear on why they executed a search warrant on behalf of Arizona. Did Arizona have a valid case pending the missing children? Otherwise, they were just named by Lori as the kids staying with someone there.
The timeline article says this about that day:

Quote:
The next morning — Nov. 27, 2019 — the Rexburg Police Department is asked to serve a search warrant at the request of Arizona authorities. A Madison County Sheriff’s dispatch log indicates a phone pinged at the 565 Pioneer Road townhomes at that moment. The log also indicated the call related to a missing 7-year-old, now known to be JJ, and “homicide” investigations in Arizona. When police arrived, they discovered the Daybells had “abruptly” left.
Assuming the missing boy's "case", such as it was then, was being handled more or less entirely by the Rexburg police, it seems to me it's probable that the "homicide investigations" were Arizona's end, and the search warrant requested by the Arizona authorities related more to that than to JJ. So the call from Arizona might have gone something like "hey remember that missing kid you asked us about yesterday? Well you're not going to believe this, but it seems his mother is a person of interest in a murder investigation..."
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2020, 12:54 PM   #56
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 25,615
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Is the curb the only way to discard the stuff?
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
If they suspected the police (or anyone) were suspicious of them, a trip to the dump or a ride in the woods would leave evidence behind. At least a storage unit bought time. Except that they must have known that little $53 payment was being declined, and they did nothing.
I suspect it was never the plan originally to let the rental payment be declined. The purported evidence seems to indicate that the Daybells skipped town in a hurry on the day the search warrant was called in. Depending on how frantic their escape was, they may simply not have had time or room in their vehicle to go back to the storage unit and claim those items and had no choice but to abandon it all.

The article about the storage unit says the card didn't begin to decline until January, a couple of months after the police had already been there and searched it. My theory: the Daybells left in such a hurry that while maybe they withdrew as much money from their bank(s) as they could, they were not able to take it all nor did they have time to actually go to the bank and close the account. Alternatively, the card being used to pay the rent was a prepaid debit card. Either way, ever since then the payments have just been made using whatever little money was left in the bank or on the card until the remaining cash finally ran out.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2020, 01:55 PM   #57
StillSleepy
Muse
 
StillSleepy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Where the wild goose goes
Posts: 512
A couple of tidbits of news that aren't particularly exciting or out of the ordinary under the circumstances.

Arizona station CBS 5 reports that Charles Vallow had a "substantial" life insurance policy (amount not specified in the text article), however Chandler police do not currently believe she was involved in his death. Charles'
sister and brother-in-law believe otherwise.

Idaho KTVB7 reports on a court document regarding what will happen to the children if they are found. The children will be placed under the custody of the state and a new guardian found.

Edit: Apparently the document was the order to produce the children, not something new.

Last edited by StillSleepy; 5th February 2020 at 01:59 PM. Reason: Correcting info
StillSleepy is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2020, 02:10 PM   #58
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: It was Lothian's idea
Posts: 11,238
Originally Posted by StillSleepy View Post
A couple of tidbits of news that aren't particularly exciting or out of the ordinary under the circumstances.

Arizona station CBS 5 reports that Charles Vallow had a "substantial" life insurance policy (amount not specified in the text article), however Chandler police do not currently believe she was involved in his death. Charles'
sister and brother-in-law believe otherwise.

Idaho KTVB7 reports on a court document regarding what will happen to the children if they are found. The children will be placed under the custody of the state and a new guardian found.

Edit: Apparently the document was the order to produce the children, not something new.

Yeah, I'm with the sis and bro in law on that. Lot of body bags getting filled around Lori
__________________

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2020, 02:24 PM   #59
StillSleepy
Muse
 
StillSleepy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Where the wild goose goes
Posts: 512
Also according to KTVB7, no warrant has been issued for Lori Vallow, no specific reason has been given. The general idea is that the contempt of court is considered a civil charge and not grounds for extradition, however "woeful disobedience" of a court order could be a potential misdemeanor which would still be unusual in recent times as grounds for extradition in Idaho. There apparently isn't enough evidence for criminal charges to be filed otherwise.

On a unrelated note, what kind of doomsday cultist goes to Hawaii as the end draws near?
StillSleepy is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2020, 02:26 PM   #60
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: It was Lothian's idea
Posts: 11,238
Originally Posted by StillSleepy View Post
Also according to KTVB7, no warrant has been issued for Lori Vallow, no specific reason has been given. The general idea is that the contempt of court is considered a civil charge and not grounds for extradition, however "woeful disobedience" of a court order could be a potential misdemeanor which would still be unusual in recent times as grounds for extradition in Idaho. There apparently isn't enough evidence for criminal charges to be filed otherwise.

On a unrelated note, what kind of doomsday cultist goes to Hawaii as the end draws near?
The kind who likes to face the Apocalypse with a good tan?
__________________

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2020, 02:47 PM   #61
StillSleepy
Muse
 
StillSleepy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Where the wild goose goes
Posts: 512
In all fairness, they are at least on Kauai rather than Hawaii, that is to say just about the farthest part of the state of Hawaii from Hawaii. I honestly can't come up with a better idea than Thermal's about tanning (in that in general it suggests a sort of being happy before the world goes completely to heck). And yes, the question and answers were intended to be somewhat tongue in cheek but I still wonder about this alleged cult business.
StillSleepy is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th February 2020, 08:21 AM   #62
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: It was Lothian's idea
Posts: 11,238
More ominous news.

They found the cel phone of Tylee, the missing 17 yr old daughter of Lori. It was in Hawaii. Lori had it. Christ.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/missing...w-source-says/

Not linked, but I also saw a story that Loving Lori gave away JJ's service dog on November 5th (apparently a comfort animal, as JJ is autistic).
__________________

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th February 2020, 12:47 PM   #63
pgwenthold
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,228
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
More ominous news.

They found the cel phone of Tylee, the missing 17 yr old daughter of Lori. It was in Hawaii. Lori had it. Christ.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/missing...w-source-says/

Not linked, but I also saw a story that Loving Lori gave away JJ's service dog on November 5th (apparently a comfort animal, as JJ is autistic).
For pete's sake, she needs to be brought in front of a family court judge and asked straight out, "WHERE ARE YOUR CHILDREN?"

If the answer is "I don't know" then when did you see them last?

This is a child services case
__________________
"As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets
pgwenthold is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th February 2020, 01:29 PM   #64
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: It was Lothian's idea
Posts: 11,238
Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
For pete's sake, she needs to be brought in front of a family court judge and asked straight out, "WHERE ARE YOUR CHILDREN?"

If the answer is "I don't know" then when did you see them last?

This is a child services case
Seriously. Can't figure out why it doesnt take longer than an hour or so to get the procedural paperwork in order and send out the cavalry. The grandparents surely can fill out the missing juvenile report and have the parents interrogated on the same grounds they were required to present the kids to Idaho courts. Perhaps charge them with failing to report a missing ward, or neglect of welfare, or whatever charge may be fitting. No way they should be sipping Mai Tais as the weeks drag on. Wouldn't not knowing where your minor children were while you left the continent be evidence of neglect on its own?
__________________

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th February 2020, 01:42 PM   #65
pgwenthold
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,228
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Seriously. Can't figure out why it doesnt take longer than an hour or so to get the procedural paperwork in order and send out the cavalry. The grandparents surely can fill out the missing juvenile report and have the parents interrogated on the same grounds they were required to present the kids to Idaho courts. Perhaps charge them with failing to report a missing ward, or neglect of welfare, or whatever charge may be fitting. No way they should be sipping Mai Tais as the weeks drag on. Wouldn't not knowing where your minor children were while you left the continent be evidence of neglect on its own?
CPS has a compelling case that they need to locate the children. It should not be an issue to go to the judge to say, "We cannot locate these children and fear for their safety. We need the parents to testify."

Make them properly notified (this is important) and if they don't appear, charge them with contempt.
__________________
"As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets
pgwenthold is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th February 2020, 01:53 PM   #66
StillSleepy
Muse
 
StillSleepy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Where the wild goose goes
Posts: 512
Apparently a message was sent to one of Tylee's friends on 25 October, the friend says it didn't seem like her. Not seeing if this was thought at the time or post hoc.

Also, the guide dog trainer says the family was moving out and that he saw JJ (but not Tylee).
StillSleepy is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th February 2020, 02:40 PM   #67
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17,836
This sounds like the Coen Brothers' next movie.
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th February 2020, 03:12 PM   #68
StillSleepy
Muse
 
StillSleepy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Where the wild goose goes
Posts: 512
So I did some simple online snooping and if the address I have is correct, I'm not holding out much hope of finding them. Area is rural-semirural and there's a roadside pond and a river within one mile of the place, as well as a small pond on the property right near the house. River might be too shallow to be a good dump site. That being said, they have at least four immediate neighbors, empty houses notwithstanding.

Last edited by StillSleepy; 10th February 2020 at 04:38 PM. Reason: Correcting distance value.
StillSleepy is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th February 2020, 03:27 PM   #69
Elagabalus
Philosopher
 
Elagabalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,015
Tylee was interviewed by police when Charles Vallow was killed on July 11, 2019

Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
UPDATE: I found this police cam footage after Lori's brother shot her ex.

https://www.facebook.com/jlumfox10/v...9277274751377/
Elagabalus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th February 2020, 04:51 PM   #70
StillSleepy
Muse
 
StillSleepy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Where the wild goose goes
Posts: 512
Actually, looking more closely, there's a canal that is even closer than the first pond and river I mentioned.
StillSleepy is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th February 2020, 10:45 AM   #71
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: It was Lothian's idea
Posts: 11,238
Hey, you guys getting bored? Here's your sicko Lori shot in the arm for the day:

Her first husband, dead Charles, had a million dollar life insurance policy on himself with loving Lori as the beneficiary. Earlier last year, he changed the beneficiary to his sister, JJ's grandparents. Without telling his blushing bride, of course.

So when brother Alex killed Charles, naturally the grieving widow rang up the insurance company and they broke the news to her that JJ's grandmom was the beneficiary. Within weeks, JJ (still in Lori's custody) disappeared.

So when there was unexpectedly no payday for Lori, there was unexpectedly no grandson to be found.

In peripheral oddities, the grandparents are offering $20K for JJ back. Seems pretty cheap of them, considering the amount of cash just received.

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2020/0...-lori-daybell/
__________________

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th February 2020, 11:04 AM   #72
rockysmith76
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,408
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Seems like the kids are dead, or are alive but hidden captives. Either could happen with an insane cult.
Yeah thats most likely</s>.... messed up either way
rockysmith76 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th February 2020, 12:40 PM   #73
wasapi
Penultimate Amazing
 
wasapi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 12,482
Watching the news, I heard that she had given away her sons service dog, a dog he loved and was bonded with. It felt ominous, and gave credence to what I believe. The children are dead. I hope I'm wrong.
__________________
Julia
wasapi is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th February 2020, 03:44 PM   #74
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 25,615
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Hey, you guys getting bored? Here's your sicko Lori shot in the arm for the day:

Her first husband, dead Charles, had a million dollar life insurance policy on himself with loving Lori as the beneficiary. Earlier last year, he changed the beneficiary to his sister, JJ's grandparents. Without telling his blushing bride, of course.

So when brother Alex killed Charles, naturally the grieving widow rang up the insurance company and they broke the news to her that JJ's grandmom was the beneficiary. Within weeks, JJ (still in Lori's custody) disappeared.

So when there was unexpectedly no payday for Lori, there was unexpectedly no grandson to be found.
Not to detract from your point - which is good and interesting - but Charles Vallow was actually Lori's fourth husband. Before Charles there was Joseph Ryan, Tylee's biological father.

He's dead too. He died in the spring of 2018, evidently of a heart attack. This was while Lori was married to Charles and before she is known to have been associating with Chad Daybell (she began doing the podcast with Daybell that fall) however, and as far as I know there were no suspicious circumstances surrounding Ryan's death that were noted at that time...

She had two more husbands prior to Ryan, but I don't know anything about them except that she has one adult child from one of them.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th February 2020, 04:06 PM   #75
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: It was Lothian's idea
Posts: 11,238
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Not to detract from your point - which is good and interesting - but Charles Vallow was actually Lori's fourth husband. Before Charles there was Joseph Ryan, Tylee's biological father.

He's dead too. He died in the spring of 2018, evidently of a heart attack. This was while Lori was married to Charles and before she is known to have been associating with Chad Daybell (she began doing the podcast with Daybell that fall) however, and as far as I know there were no suspicious circumstances surrounding Ryan's death that were noted at that time...

She had two more husbands prior to Ryan, but I don't know anything about them except that she has one adult child from one of them.
Yeah, I had the husbands both dead and unaccounted for correctly upthread. One gets a little disoriented wading through the bodies

Speaking of which, Chad must be one sound sleeper or dumb as a brick.

This insurance policy thing may establish motive (assuming the worst) which has been unclear. JJ cost Lori a cool mil, and grandma says Lori didn't like her stepson anyway. Revenge against the beneficiary of her inheritance? Perhaps Tylee witnessed something or otherwise caught wind of what was up and needed to be eliminated too.

In other ponderences, we know JJ was briefly enrolled in school last September. Was Tylee? Aside from the sketchy text, was she last seen before, after, or concurrent with JJs disappearance?
__________________

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th February 2020, 05:01 PM   #76
StillSleepy
Muse
 
StillSleepy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Where the wild goose goes
Posts: 512
How does receiving a life insurance payout work for a minor, and who is in charge of spending the money?

Last edited by StillSleepy; 12th February 2020 at 05:01 PM. Reason: typo
StillSleepy is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th February 2020, 05:23 PM   #77
StillSleepy
Muse
 
StillSleepy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Where the wild goose goes
Posts: 512
Apparently Melani Boudreaux was arrested on 14 November at Brandon's parents' house for criminal trespassing with domestic violence (The Mercury News), AZCentral says she was released from custody the same day.

From the Mercury News:
Quote:
She reportedly had been driven there by Alex Cox and was pounding on the door, claiming she had a court order to get her children.
StillSleepy is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th February 2020, 05:35 PM   #78
Babbylonian
Penultimate Amazing
 
Babbylonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 12,910
Originally Posted by StillSleepy View Post
How does receiving a life insurance payout work for a minor, and who is in charge of spending the money?
It seems irrelevant here as the post implied that the beneficiary was one or more adults (wording was slightly confusing - dead person's "sister, JJ's grandparents").

Still to answer your question, in the absence of a trust set up by a lawyer, responsibility for the money would probably be in the hands of a minor child's parents/legal guardians, to be conveyed to the child in full upon their legal majority (age 18) or emancipation. That doesn't mean they're legally entitled to spend it on whatever they want; parents have been sued for how they handled what was rightfully their kids' money.

In the US, as always, all of the above will vary in detail by state.
Babbylonian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th February 2020, 05:55 PM   #79
StillSleepy
Muse
 
StillSleepy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Where the wild goose goes
Posts: 512
Thanks Babbylonian, I got a bit mixed up there.

Insofar as the query regarding the last specific sighting of Tylee, after a brief search I haven't come up with anything besides the date given for "the children" last being seen on 23-24 September, which was clarified in terms of seeing JJ but nothing was noted in any of the articles regarding Tylee.

Actually while I was typing another blurb came out.
From KOBI5:
Quote:
Annie recalled Lori’s obsession with end-of-times ideas. “There was this one time where she was talking about it and she says, ‘Sometimes I think it would just be better just to get put my kids in a car and go off the side of a cliff.’”

KSL also uncovered court documents of Tylee’s custody in which a Texas court ordered Lori to have a psychological evaluation after Lori said that death would be an option before letting Tylee visit her dad.

Another concern for Annie, since Tylee was homeschooled, she doesn’t know the exact date of her disappearance. “We know when J.J. was last seen but nobody seems to know when Tylee was last seen.”
StillSleepy is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th February 2020, 08:29 PM   #80
StillSleepy
Muse
 
StillSleepy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Where the wild goose goes
Posts: 512
KPLC of Lake Charles, LA, reports that Larry and Kay Woodcock (Kay being the beneficiary) are going (went?) to court to get temporary custody of JJ when he is found. Basically this would potentially allow them immediate custody of the child rather than having to go through services (though this seems to hinge on their presence in Idaho once he is found).

Also they had to be physically present in a court in Rexburg to do this, so hopefully the cult thing is more speculative or at least limited to Lori and Chad for safety's sake.
StillSleepy is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:43 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.