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Old 12th February 2020, 08:59 PM   #81
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Gonna go out on a limb and suggest the cult thing is just a sidenote. These are a troupe of psychos with body bags piling up before the cult thing (still unevidenced, they are LDS and attending a conventional Mormon church in Hawaii even now).

The whole cult angle appears to be hearsay from the other family members. Chaddy Chad wrote some apocalyptic fiction. So did Steven King and others.

This is about psychopaths crossing paths in a perfect storm, I'm betting.
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Old 12th February 2020, 09:27 PM   #82
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The "cult" could literally just be Chad and/or Lori, it's not all that uncommon for individuals to believe things much different from their denominations or to develop delusions of being "special" within the context of their religion (Note the narcissistic aspect of the latter). That being said, you are correct that the accusations are hearsay and we would need evidence to show otherwise.
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Old 12th February 2020, 09:39 PM   #83
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East Idaho News reports that in a Dateline special:
Quote:
“Where Are The Children?” includes an exclusive interview with Lori’s close friend, April Raymond, who revealed to NBC News’ Keith Morrison that Lori is “telling people there’s a lot of media hype around her right now. And she’s waiting for that to die down.”
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Old 12th February 2020, 09:41 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by StillSleepy View Post
East Idaho News reports that in a Dateline special:
'Die down'.

Phrasing, Lori.

eta: what could waiting possibly gain her, while the children are still MIA? Does she think the press/public/prosecutor will go easier on her if they cool off a little before she says she misplaced or murdered her children last September?

There's another agenda at work here. Being in Hawaii is either providing an alibi while others (shudder) act on the mainland, or are just trying to stay out of convenient reach. If they wanted to disappear, the time to do it is before warrants go out for them and they are stuck on a small island.
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Old 13th February 2020, 03:06 PM   #85
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Inside Edition conducted an interview with a private investigator hired by Brandon Boudreaux to investigate Melani post-drive-by, Rich Robertson.

Takeaways are that Melani was trying to find her children, even offering a $10,000 reward for information. Melani and Cox packed up and moved over 31 October and 1 November (abandoning her children's belongings on the curb), arriving in Rexburg on 4 November. It was realized during the monitoring after they moved that JJ and Tylee weren't anywhere to be seen, which prompted the welfare check.

Melani's arrest happened in mid-November. Brandon and Melani are in an ongoing custody battle, and Melani missed an exchange day just prior to the drive-by. Brandon is currently in hiding with the children.

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Old 13th February 2020, 05:08 PM   #86
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A tidbit that's more numerological at this point but may be useful for some insight into the family dynamic: Tylee's birthday is allegedly 24 September.
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Old 13th February 2020, 05:11 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by StillSleepy View Post
A tidbit that's more numerological at this point but may be useful for some insight into the family dynamic: Tylee's birthday is allegedly 24 September.
She may have been tied up by a person named Lee.
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Old 14th February 2020, 12:03 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by StillSleepy View Post
The "cult" could literally just be Chad and/or Lori, it's not all that uncommon for individuals to believe things much different from their denominations or to develop delusions of being "special" within the context of their religion (Note the narcissistic aspect of the latter). That being said, you are correct that the accusations are hearsay and we would need evidence to show otherwise.
If Charles Vallow said in his divorce filing that Lori told him that she was a "god" or "translated being" or whatnot, that is not hearsay, that is testimony. It is an active participant in a conversation, describing that conversation first-hand.

Hearsay would be Charles Vallow's (hypothetical) brother saying "Charles told me that Lori said such-and-such."
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Old 14th February 2020, 08:55 AM   #89
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From KTVB7:

Quote:
Before the family moved to Rexburg, JJ attended Laurens Institute For Education in Gilbert, Arizona.

The school tells KTVB that it uses an app called Bloomz, which allows a school to share information with parents and students. Up until a week ago, an account named Lori Vallow was monitoring JJ's classroom communication system, even though JJ hasn't been enrolled in the school since September 2019. According to the school, the name Lori Vallow has been tracked multiple times using the app. The school discovered it a week ago and says that's when it removed her access to the app.
Quote:
Information from the school starts on Feb. 5, 2019 when JJ was absent from L.I.F.E. Academy.

On Feb. 11, his father Charles Vallow visits the school and claims Lori had "gone crazy" and was hearing religious voices. She had disappeared and no one knew where she was. Charles also told the school he had a protection order against Lori and that he would be pulling JJ out of school and taking him out of state until he was safe.

Around the same time, Feb. 15, Charles filed for divorce from Lori.

At the end of February, Charles and JJ return to L.I.F.E. Academy and Lori is still MIA.

On March 7, Charles formally withdrew JJ from school, saying they were going to stay with family in Texas.

Fast forward to late June, Lori contacts L.I.F.E. saying the family was back in Gilbert. She also enrolled JJ in the school's summer program.

Mid-July, on the 11th, Charles Vallow is shot and killed by Lori's brother, Alex Cox. But the school wouldn't find out about his death until a week later, when Lori told them Charles had committed suicide.

L.I.F.E. did their own research and learned Charles was killed as part of a family dispute, so to "do due diligence" the school filed a report with Arizona's Department of Child Safety.
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Old 14th February 2020, 01:39 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
If Charles Vallow said in his divorce filing that Lori told him that she was a "god" or "translated being" or whatnot, that is not hearsay, that is testimony. It is an active participant in a conversation, describing that conversation first-hand.

Hearsay would be Charles Vallow's (hypothetical) brother saying "Charles told me that Lori said such-and-such."
The actual existence of any cult, though, is not even testified to. Where is this cult? Who is in it?

Lori was talking goofy. That doesn't support the existence of others.
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Old 14th February 2020, 02:29 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The actual existence of any cult, though, is not even testified to. Where is this cult? Who is in it?

Lori was talking goofy. That doesn't support the existence of others.
Aren't those fundamental Mormon beliefs? I suppose we could argue whether LDS is a cult, but (where's Randfan when we need him?) I think the Mormons believe everyone who is a qualified member of their church is (or will be?) a God, and will eventually have a planet of their own to rule?

ETA: Here's a wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation_(Mormonism)

Quote:
In the theology of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), translation refers to being physically changed by God from a mortal human being to an immortal human being. A person that has been translated is referred to as a translated being.
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Old 14th February 2020, 02:42 PM   #92
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The alleged "cult" beliefs are more along the lines of an imminent Doomsday (sometime in July?), with Lori and Chad being "chosen" as part of a literal 144,000 (which tends to become the Christian equivalent of saying everyone who doesn't worship you is subhuman and available for exploitation doomed to damnation). Chad is alleged to have prescient visions, one of his friends also claims to have visions. The friend claims both she and Chad had visions of Charles Vallow's (IIRC, there's too many bodies) death.
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Old 14th February 2020, 04:25 PM   #93
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Anybody heard from Chad's 5 kids? Just sayin....
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Old 14th February 2020, 05:06 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
Aren't those fundamental Mormon beliefs? I suppose we could argue whether LDS is a cult, but (where's Randfan when we need him?) I think the Mormons believe everyone who is a qualified member of their church is (or will be?) a God, and will eventually have a planet of their own to rule?

ETA: Here's a wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation_(Mormonism)
I have not heard of the "everyone gets to be a god" bonus; but according to the Wikipage, it seems "Translation" is something that has only happened to a select few biblical figures; i.e., it's not something that happens to everyday people, even if they're Mormon. I do not believe Mormonism gives parishioners the authority to kill people they feel are obstacles, as Charles indicates Lori threatened to do to him.

It does seem to be the case that Lori's and Chad's beliefs are originally informed by Mormonism, but seem to have progressed a little ways beyond that if they are declaring themselves to be prophets. Perhaps sort of like how Warren Jeffs' cult off-shot from Mormonism; or how the apocalyptic Branch Davidian cult originally began as Seventh-Day Adventists.

Chad and Lori's first known interaction was via an end-times podcast. The site that used to host them has reportedly removed the episodes and issued a statement disclaiming any association with the Daybells and their podcast. If those episodes were available somewhere there might be clues to their precise believes inside them - although I have to admit I'm personally not that keen on listening to hours of end-times hokum to find them.
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Old 14th February 2020, 07:17 PM   #95
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NBC's Dateline is covering this case tonight; I'm giving it a watch now.
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Old 14th February 2020, 08:57 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
NBC's Dateline is covering this case tonight; I'm giving it a watch now.
Well it's going to be a lot harder for them to keep up this charade now. Wonder what'll happen next. That storage shed video sure is damning.
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Old 15th February 2020, 09:25 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Well it's going to be a lot harder for them to keep up this charade now. Wonder what'll happen next. That storage shed video sure is damning.
My wife is watching it now from the DVR. Lot's of weirdness there.
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Old 15th February 2020, 09:55 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
NBC's Dateline is covering this case tonight; I'm giving it a watch now.
Thanks Checkmite. I just caught the last few minutes but the impression I got was that the matter was "unresolved". What happens now?
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Old 15th February 2020, 10:15 AM   #99
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We wait for something to give.
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Old 15th February 2020, 10:18 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Thanks Checkmite. I just caught the last few minutes but the impression I got was that the matter was "unresolved". What happens now?
Up until now, most of this story was being pieced together from various news sources, mainly local news to the related events, mostly on discussion boards just like us. Now it's gotten two hours worth of detailed attention on a high rated show, on a major broadcast network. This level of attention focused on them will make it significantly harder to keep the truth, whatever it may be, hidden for much longer.
Hope these two, and apparently a third accomplice, don't escape justice...

It really does sort of feel like they buy their own BS, and are trying to simply put off all their troubles till the world ends in July.
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Old 15th February 2020, 10:23 AM   #101
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I was thinking more along the lines of (subconsciously?) basking in the limelight. Alternatively, they may be disconnected enough to actually think there's some advantage to "letting the media hype die down", which is a question of how soon in and of itself.

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Old 15th February 2020, 12:11 PM   #102
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KTVB7 interviewed Dateline's Keith Morrison:

https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/cr...b-59aaf8a6edbc

Aside from his own take on the situation, he states that Lori was making dancing videos for Chad while still married to Charles Vallow. This was not included in the special.
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Old 15th February 2020, 09:24 PM   #103
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Idaho State Journal reports a possible sighting of Tylee in Nashville, TN on 22 December:

https://www.idahostatejournal.com/ne...ba05bee8e.html

Article seems to be based more on attention being drawn to an individual making a report than on any sort of official statement from law enforcement. The report was made two days after the encounter.
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Old 17th February 2020, 08:19 PM   #104
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And the psychos are back on the menu, boys.

Lori and Chad lit out of Kauai, but only appeared to jump over to Maui.

https://komonews.com/news/local/mom-...th-new-husband

Also, was reading about why there have been no arrests. It seems Idaho can't find a crime to charge them with.

In Idaho, it is not a crime to not report your children missing, as counterintuitive as that may seem. Apparently, you normally either have a body and question/charge the parents, or...well, not much. Other states have made this a crime (see Casey Anthony) to not report a missing minor. Idaho gave it a pass.
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Old 17th February 2020, 08:26 PM   #105
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This is why, as I said, the answer is to go through child services, and require the parents to show in court and explain where the children are. For the safety of the kids.

If the parents don't show, charge them with contempt.
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Old 17th February 2020, 08:42 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
This is why, as I said, the answer is to go through child services, and require the parents to show in court and explain where the children are. For the safety of the kids.

If the parents don't show, charge them with contempt.
That happened earlier (demand to produce children and a no-show), but Idaho wants something to actually charge them with. Contempt is a misdemeanor, punishable with up to $5K/5 days. As odd as it seems, they are breaking no other laws.

I would assume that a child...not being around...would be evidence on its own of neglect, but apparently that is not the case in Idaho.
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Old 17th February 2020, 08:48 PM   #107
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They already can be charged with contempt, it's just not something Idaho normally extradites over.

Edit: Sorry, didn't see previous post.
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Old 18th February 2020, 12:56 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by StillSleepy View Post
They already can be charged with contempt, it's just not something Idaho normally extradites over.
For what it's worth, I don't think it's something most states extradite over.
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Old 18th February 2020, 07:30 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
And the psychos are back on the menu, boys.

Lori and Chad lit out of Kauai, but only appeared to jump over to Maui.

https://komonews.com/news/local/mom-...th-new-husband

Also, was reading about why there have been no arrests. It seems Idaho can't find a crime to charge them with.

In Idaho, it is not a crime to not report your children missing, as counterintuitive as that may seem. Apparently, you normally either have a body and question/charge the parents, or...well, not much. Other states have made this a crime (see Casey Anthony) to not report a missing minor. Idaho gave it a pass.
In other words, it's the perfect place to move to if you want to send your kids on a trip to Belize.

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Old 18th February 2020, 02:58 PM   #110
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It seems that if Idaho wanted them extradited it would have to pay to do so, so it would seem that an earlier guess that Idaho would wait and try to make a case for a more severe crime that would stick would be correct. To be fair, if you know your suspects are somewhere specific and relatively isolated and that they can't directly interfere with your investigation, you wouldn't necessarily be in a hurry to change the playing field. Problems there are that they may not intend to ever come back, instead opting for the super special Koolaid in July, or that you may gain more with interrogation.
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Old 19th February 2020, 02:15 PM   #111
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The Dateline special is now available on NBC's site.
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Old 20th February 2020, 07:30 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
And the psychos are back on the menu, boys.

Lori and Chad lit out of Kauai, but only appeared to jump over to Maui.

https://komonews.com/news/local/mom-...th-new-husband
Daily Mail now reports that the couple have returned to Kauai after a two-day vacation in Maui.
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Old 20th February 2020, 07:40 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Daily Mail now reports that the couple have returned to Kauai after a two-day vacation in Maui.
Yeah, after staying at $500 per night digs there. Although that is cheap by Maui standards, they do still seem to be pretty flush in cash.
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Old 20th February 2020, 07:54 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Yeah, after staying at $500 per night digs there. Although that is cheap by Maui standards, they do still seem to be pretty flush in cash.
Got to do something with all that child support money!



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Old 20th February 2020, 10:15 AM   #115
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Five kids and no money and his sister gets everything.
Talk about mood whiplash.
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Old 20th February 2020, 01:09 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Got to do something with all that child support money!



Interesting thing that. As a divorced father of two children, I have opinions on the matter.
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Old 20th February 2020, 07:08 PM   #117
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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...7cHZPtCh5RkAFA

The mother and husband have been arrested, and held on a 4 million bond.

I think we know where the kids are.
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Old 20th February 2020, 07:20 PM   #118
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About damn time.

I might hazard a guess about what the kids are, but where? Beats me.

eta: it's a $5mil warrant from Idaho, the primary charges being 2 felony counts of desertion and nonsupport of dependent children.

Adding to the wish list, "[Vallow] was also charged with arrests and seizures - resisting or obstructing officers, criminal solicitation to commit a crime, and contempt of court".

Solicitation, huh? Sounds like somebody talked.
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Last edited by Thermal; 20th February 2020 at 07:54 PM.
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Old 20th February 2020, 09:05 PM   #119
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She has a court date to "waive or fight her extradition to Idaho." Not familiar with Idaho law to say for sure, but the solicitation charge sounds too weak to be regarding Cox, which leads me to one of my back burner suspicions that the friend that supposedly was taking care of the children actually was taking care of the children but lied to police. I'd say it's far more likely to involve a heretofore unmentioned party and situation though.
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Old 20th February 2020, 09:10 PM   #120
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$4M sounds a bit high for leaving the kids at the sitters too long.

Solicitation- of the drive-by?
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