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Tags Ahmaud Arbery , Georgia incidents , Gregory McMichael , prosecutorial misconduct , racism charges , racism incidents , shooting incidents , Travis McMichael , William Bryan

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Old 7th May 2020, 03:37 PM   #281
pgwenthold
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Go back and re-read. It was not the mother who needs to be charged.
I read it as sarcasm (my response was vague enough). I thought it was funny.
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Old 7th May 2020, 03:38 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
From Arbery's perspective, I'm going to say the argument is "when chased down and attacked by armed men, you should just give up without a fight." Which is an abysmally dumb argument.

I can pretty much guarantee that if a couple of armed obviously-not-police men in a truck accost me while I'm on foot, I'm going to run like a bunny. If they then cut me off with their truck and come out of the vehicle brandishing a shotgun... I'm going to do everything in my power to try to take that shotgun away from him instead of just meekly waiting to be murdered by a crazy person.
I would be happy to give up my wallet and phone to armed robbers. If someone is coming at me with an exposed gun I am going to assume robbery. Never fight them. Cooperate and give them what they ask for. Your life is not worth it. Live to see another day.
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Old 7th May 2020, 03:38 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I must agree with Bogative here. We simply don't have all of the facts.

All that we know is that there was a confrontation, and the "victim" ran away, prompting at least two people with guns (unknown whether they already had the guns, or were retrieved after the first confrontation) to get into a pickup, and follow him, eventually blocking his path with their truck, with one getting out of the car while displaying a weapon. Also, prompting someone in a second car to follow while taking video of what was about to happen.

At that point, we know that the runner attacked the man, who shot him. Or maybe his friend shot him from the bed of the pickup.
I'm generally a fan of waiting for facts, because well, frankly I don't trust media spin. In this case, however, we've got the statements made by the assailants.

In their own report they say they saw him jogging past and thought he might be the person who'd been breaking in. They went inside, armed themselves, and took off after him in a truck, while they called the cops. By their own admission, they chased him in a truck, cut him off, and when he ran the other way went after him again. By their own admission, the driver got out of the truck with a shotgun and went toward the victim, who at that point changed tactics and tried to wrestle the shotgun away.

Their own version of events doesn't support any speculation about prior confrontations or any rational excuse for their behavior. Their own version of events does not support any reasonable person's view of "self defense" on the part of the shooter(s).
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Old 7th May 2020, 03:42 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
From Arbery's perspective, I'm going to say the argument is "when chased down and attacked by armed men, you should just give up without a fight." Which is an abysmally dumb argument.

I can pretty much guarantee that if a couple of armed obviously-not-police men in a truck accost me while I'm on foot, I'm going to run like a bunny. If they then cut me off with their truck and come out of the vehicle brandishing a shotgun... I'm going to do everything in my power to try to take that shotgun away from him instead of just meekly waiting to be murdered by a crazy person.
Exactly.

There is all this discussion about the motivation of the guys in the truck, and whether they were justified in making a "citizen's arrest" etc. But from the victim perspective, none of that matters. There was no crime being committed, so he had no idea why they were chasing him. All he knew is that armed white guys in a truck are chasing him.

On what grounds does he need to submit to their "authority"?
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Old 7th May 2020, 03:46 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
My first post was a way of making fun of Bogative's response, because although we don't know a great many things, I think we know enough to draw some very easy conclusions, and although I am not a lawyer, I think I understand the basic legal questions here.
I rescind my comment to you. I didn't read it as you making fun of bogative, it seemed like you were agreeing with him. Chalk it up to yet one more instance where I fail to infer the appropriate sarcasm from written form alone...
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Old 7th May 2020, 03:49 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I rescind my comment to you. I didn't read it as you making fun of bogative, it seemed like you were agreeing with him. Chalk it up to yet one more instance where I fail to infer the appropriate sarcasm from written form alone...
No worries. You weren't alone. I thought I was being obvious, but, obviously (pun intended) I wasn't.
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Old 7th May 2020, 03:50 PM   #287
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Red face

Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
There was no crime being committed, so he had no idea why they were chasing him. All he knew is that armed white guys in a truck are chasing him.

On what grounds does he need to submit to their "authority"?
He probably thought that they were trying to rob him. If it was strictly for murder he may have thought that they would have done that right away or from across the street.

But in a robbery you shouldn't run or try to grab the gun. Just give them your money and phone. That's what they want.
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Old 7th May 2020, 03:55 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
He probably thought that they were trying to rob him. If it was strictly for murder he may have thought that they would have done that right away or from across the street.

But in a robbery you shouldn't run or try to grab the gun. Just give them your money and phone. That's what they want.
That's a nice, white perspective.

How does it work for a black guy in Georgia?
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Old 7th May 2020, 04:02 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Oh, and you say the 911 caller was lying, I assume? Arbery was just out jogging, he wasn't in the empty house, and it wasn't an 'ongoing thing'? How do you know he was lying to 911 dispatch?
Just FYI, the 911 call that you're referencing was from a different night. It's the "reports of break ins" that they were referencing. They are the ones who reported a "break in", which wasn't actually a break in, but could reasonably be construed as trespassing. It was a person being nosy and checking out a partially built house. At this point, there's not even confirmation that the person they saw checking out the house under construction was actually Arbery. And even if it was... he wasn't breaking in. And that's the only report of anything resembling a break-in in the couple of months prior to them arming themselves and chasing a jogger down the road in a truck.
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Old 7th May 2020, 04:06 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by Olmstead View Post
I don't understand. Can people in parts of the USA actually walk around and/or accost people with a loaded shotgun in their hands like they're in Mad Max or something? I'd assume this to be a pretty serious crime even without the killing, but I guess I'm wrong?
In many parts of the US, open carry of long guns is allowed. Some states allow open carry of any firearm. Accosting people with firearms, however, is NOT legal in any state to the best of my knowledge.
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Old 7th May 2020, 04:08 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
That's a nice, white perspective.

How does it work for a black guy in Georgia?
This doesn't make any sense at all. No matter what color you are or what state you are in - you give your stuff to the robber.
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Old 7th May 2020, 04:10 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
This doesn't make any sense at all. No matter what color you are or what state you are in - you give your stuff to the robber.
Why would he assume they are trying to rob him?

YOU would assume they are trying to rob you, but then again, you have not grown up as a black person in Georgia, so that is a perspective from your white privilege.

I do not presume that my perspective would apply in that situation.
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Old 7th May 2020, 04:13 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
In many parts of the US, open carry of long guns is allowed. Some states allow open carry of any firearm. Accosting people with firearms, however, is NOT legal in any state to the best of my knowledge.
"Being chased by two guys with shotguns in a pickup" is a threat irrespective of any open carry laws.
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Old 7th May 2020, 04:15 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Why would he assume they are trying to rob him?

YOU would assume they are trying to rob you, but then again, you have not grown up as a black person in Georgia, so that is a perspective from your white privilege.

I do not presume that my perspective would apply in that situation.
Being chased with a gun and no shooting? That's a robbery in progress.
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Old 7th May 2020, 04:17 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Why would he assume they are trying to rob him?

YOU would assume they are trying to rob you, but then again, you have not grown up as a black person in Georgia, so that is a perspective from your white privilege.

I do not presume that my perspective would apply in that situation.
I didn't know that you are a black person living in Georgia. They say that we all learn something new every day.
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Old 7th May 2020, 04:28 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
It shouldn't have gone on for more than a brief comment or two. It went on and became 'tedious' because of others lying about the content/intent the posts.

...

I take an interest in self defense and fighting strategies, and am always interested in real-time testing. Here, it falls with something I've always advocated: don't rush a group of armed nuts when unarmed. There is a good time to run like hell to the sides, and this was one. We are not bulletproof.
Alright, I don't know you from Adam. I don't have any preformed bias as it relates to you. And I myself am frequently the cause of analysis paralysis that gets misunderstood.

I believe I get your point.

That said, however, it wasn't until just a couple of posts prior to this that I started to think that maybe you weren't defending the aggressors in this situation, and rationalizing the victim's death. Throughout the first several pages of this thread, you really didn't come across as if you were just tactically analyzing the actions taken.

So, from one ofttimes misunderstood poster to another, it might be worth re-reading your posts in this thread with an eye to how other people might see them. Especially when the readers don't have the benefit of the tone and inflection that you would apply to your statements.
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Old 7th May 2020, 04:30 PM   #297
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I think the deceased attacked them because he worried they were going to get authorities and get him exposed as involved in crimes that day or previously.

I don’t think he thought for a moment they were robbers or killers. He saw them as Trayvon saw Zimmerman: busy body nosy snitches summoning the cops.
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Old 7th May 2020, 04:35 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Per your own link upthread. People who do the recordings on their devices tend to be the only ones who can post them. I mean, unless his...what, phone got stolen?

Or are you suggesting police leaked it, or what?
Spouse, friend he showed it to, or maybe he even felt ashamed about it.
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Old 7th May 2020, 04:42 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I would be happy to give up my wallet and phone to armed robbers. If someone is coming at me with an exposed gun I am going to assume robbery. Never fight them. Cooperate and give them what they ask for. Your life is not worth it. Live to see another day.
Robbery, sure. I'm inclined to think that a truck chasing me, cutting me off, then an armed person jumping out of the truck at me is not just interested in taking my wallet.
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Old 7th May 2020, 04:45 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I didn't know that you are a black person living in Georgia.
I knew you were going to say this, but that is because you are being defensive instead of paying attention.

I have never said anything about what he should have thought. You are the one who insists that he should treat it like he is being robbed. I make no assumption that it would look to him like a robbery, and therefore do assume that he should react as such.

I am not the one claiming that he behaved improperly based on my privileged perspective of what I think he should be thinking.
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Old 7th May 2020, 04:45 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
I think the deceased attacked them because he worried they were going to get authorities and get him exposed as involved in crimes that day or previously.

I don’t think he thought for a moment they were robbers or killers. He saw them as Trayvon saw Zimmerman: busy body nosy snitches summoning the cops.
Can't tell if serious...
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Old 7th May 2020, 04:49 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Being chased with a gun and no shooting? That's a robbery in progress.
Why, did they ask him for his wallet?

Alternatively: A black guy being chased by two white guys with shotguns? That's lynching in progress.

Things in support of your interpretation: that's what it would be if it were a white guy
Things in support of my interpretation: they never asked for his wallet; they actually were NOT trying to rob him

That's an important part of this: If he had assumed it was an attempted robbery, HE WOULD HAVE BEEN WRONG!!!!!
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Old 7th May 2020, 04:51 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Being chased with a gun and no shooting? That's a robbery in progress.
We have no idea what the 2 armed men and their compadre said to Arbery but I'm pretty sure it wasn't "Hey there. Give us your wallet. " I don't know what Arbery was thinking but I am pretty sure he didn't think he was being robbed.

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Old 7th May 2020, 04:54 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by whoanellie View Post
We have know idea what the 2 armed men and their compadre said to Arbery but I'm pretty sure it wasn't "Hey there. Give us your wallet. " I don't know what Arbery was thinking but I am pretty sure he didn't think he was being robbed.
But, but, but why else would white guys in a pickup with shotguns be chasing down a ****** ? Oh wait, he should have just assumed that they wanted to give him a ride to the gas station....

As I noted, if he would have assumed they were trying to rob him, he would have been wrong. In fact, there is no indication that he misread their intentions at all.
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Old 7th May 2020, 04:56 PM   #305
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I wasn't told what was said. Maybe nothing was said. What would a murderer/executioner say when in hot pursuit of the victim?
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Old 7th May 2020, 05:19 PM   #306
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Quote:
GLYNN COUNTY, Ga. — The Georgia Bureau of Investigation said it has arrested Gregory McMichael, 64, and Travis McMichael, 34, for the February death of Ahmaud Arbery.

They were both charged with murder and aggravated assault. The McMichaels were taken into custody and will be booked into the Glynn County Jail, GBI said.
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/g...mYWzDSCRg5SLu4
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Old 7th May 2020, 05:40 PM   #307
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Thanks Joe.

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Old 7th May 2020, 05:41 PM   #308
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
He probably thought that they were trying to rob him. If it was strictly for murder he may have thought that they would have done that right away or from across the street.

But in a robbery you shouldn't run or try to grab the gun. Just give them your money and phone. That's what they want.
In most cases I would agree. But what if what they want is to kill you?

Make no mistake - this was a lynching. They used a shotgun instead of a rope, but it was a lynching.
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Old 7th May 2020, 05:41 PM   #309
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One thing that gets mentioned often in stories about this is the resemblance of Arbery to a man on surveillance video.

I haven't actually seen anything about the surveillance video. Does it exist? Does it show a break-in? Was it taken very near a break in? Is the man in the video actually Arbery? If not, do they have any visual features in common other than black skin?
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Old 7th May 2020, 05:42 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
And about time!
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Old 7th May 2020, 05:43 PM   #311
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
One thing that gets mentioned often in stories about this is the resemblance of Arbery to a man on surveillance video.

I haven't actually seen anything about the surveillance video. Does it exist? Does it show a break-in? Was it taken very near a break in? Is the man in the video actually Arbery? If not, do they have any visual features in common other than black skin?
Based on the reporting, some surveillance footage of some sort exists. At least, the verbiage of some of the police reports and DA letter suggests that investigators have something.

The devil is in the details, and we have very few.
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Old 7th May 2020, 05:43 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
One thing that gets mentioned often in stories about this is the resemblance of Arbery to a man on surveillance video.

I haven't actually seen anything about the surveillance video. Does it exist? Does it show a break-in? Was it taken very near a break in? Is the man in the video actually Arbery? If not, do they have any visual features in common other than black skin?
No other features in common are needed.
The victimization of the perps and trashing of the victim ala Zimmerman/Martin will commence immediately.
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Old 7th May 2020, 05:44 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Once out of the good ole boy network, probable cause for an arrest was much easier to find.

I'm shocked.
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Old 7th May 2020, 05:46 PM   #314
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BREAKING: They've been arrested and charged with murder and aggravated assault.
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Old 7th May 2020, 05:56 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Can't tell if serious...
Its skeptic tank. He really believes the BS he spouts
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Old 7th May 2020, 06:07 PM   #316
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nm

Last edited by Sideroxylon; 7th May 2020 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 7th May 2020, 06:09 PM   #317
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https://twitter.com/DexyandKhaleesi/...387779/photo/1

Perp walk.

Feels good.
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Old 7th May 2020, 06:10 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
But what did it take to drag the “justice system” to action?
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Old 7th May 2020, 06:14 PM   #319
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
But what did it take to drag the “justice system” to action?
It's pretty clear that if there was no video, these guys would be home free.

Initial reporting of the incident, pre-video, caused a minor uproar, but not enough to get it out of the hands of these corrupt local DA's.
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Old 7th May 2020, 06:34 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It's pretty clear that if there was no video, these guys would be home free.

Initial reporting of the incident, pre-video, caused a minor uproar, but not enough to get it out of the hands of these corrupt local DA's.
Truth. It took the power of bad press to kick them in gear. Three cheers for Twitter. And that hurts to say.
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