ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Derek Chauvin , George Floyd , Minneapolis incidents , police incidents , police misconduct charges

Reply
Old 8th June 2020, 02:53 PM   #121
Delphic Oracle
Illuminator
 
Delphic Oracle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 4,800
Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
Do you have a spreadsheet for property damage or White people being beaten during the protests?
What would such a spreadsheet have to do with police brutalizing people not involved in crimes?

Or even if they were committing crimes, that makes it okay to brutalize someone?
Delphic Oracle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 03:02 PM   #122
Bob001
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 11,020
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Derek Chauvin's bail set at 1 million:

https://apnews.com/b3ec2c265b33d4135...&utm_medium=AP

Here's something strange in that story:
Quote:
The judge agreed with the state’s request for $1.25 million unconditional bail, or $1 million with standard conditions including surrendering firearms, remaining law-abiding and making all future court appearances.
So if you pay an extra quarter-mil, you can keep your guns, break other laws and not promise to show up in court? In most jurisdictions if you don't agree to those things and more, you stay in jail.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 03:19 PM   #123
Cabbage
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,598
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Can he do me coconut?
Did you have any interest in continuing our debate from before the weekend? It's fine with me if you wanna drop it, I merely wanted to ask in case it got lost/forgotten over the weekend. Since the thread has been continued, I thought I'd help by linking to where we were:

Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
I'm actually not sure what article/report you are referring to. The only article I recall you linking was this one: http://gatewayjr.org/how-a-popular-m...an-be-trusted/ I see no reference to a YouGov report, however.

Yes, I am aware that Democrats also believe in CTs, I agree with everything you've said in this quote; in fact, I believe I have acknowledged that already. What I am trying to express is my concern over prevalence (in the respective parties) and danger of said CTs:

Let me give you a couple of made up examples to illustrate the point:

1. (Prevalence) If 77% of party X has a tendency to believe in CTs, while 22% of party Y has such a tendency, I claim that there is more potential for issues arising in party X.


2. (Danger) If party X has a tendency to believe the CT that party Y's leaders engage in Ritual Satanic Sacrifice in order to maintain power, while party Y has a tendency to believe the CT that party X's leaders extort money from financial powers in order to maintain power, I claim we have more of a potential problem with party X, as it is more likely to erupt in vigilante violence against such blasphemies of god.

These distinctions are important. They should not be ignored.

ETA: Oh, and I can't help but notice you never answered the question: "What evidence of a political party going off the rails would you consider as valid? Polls are apparently out. What's left? Sincere question, not rhetorical at all. "

Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Why do you think it's an assumption? I claim it's based on evidence: While, as you just pointed out, I don't know the viewership, I have seen evidence in the form of poll after poll showing a greater trend among Republicans to hold nutjob beliefs.


Really? I'm surprised to hear that coming from you (or anyone, really). There's pretty much universal opinion that in WWII German propaganda was far more morally putrid than American propaganda (in fact, I believe a lot of people would even find that to be an offensive understatement). "Propaganda is propaganda" is an absolute rubbish statement. If it expresses anything other than the obvious tautology, it ignores the varying degrees of consequences of the propaganda. Propaganda to promote the genocide of six million Jews generally has that affect on people's opinions.

I'll just leave it at. I really don't know what else to say here.

Have I ever extended the label of "nutjob" across an entire party? As far as I can recall, I am expressing concern over an increasing multiplicity of nutjobs in the Republican party. I am not claiming anywhere near every last one of them are nutjobs.

I can respect that, but I don't think polls are the only evidence, either: Again, witness the unprecedented aiding and abetting of a criminal in the White House.

Hypothetical Whataboutism? Yeah, I'm calling this as an exceptional case of BS both sidesism. "But they would do it too!" is always an equally (in)valid response that is made to deflect from actual problems. Like I said, this is yet another example of your willful ignorance.
Cabbage is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 03:39 PM   #124
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 26,759
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It's the prejudice, man. So much prejudice.

We are supposed to stop the hatred. What peoples do you hate? Do you hate the haters?
You may be right that people should not hate the police so much, but last I knew, being a policeman was a choice people make, and not a condition of their existence as race and ethnicity are. As such, even if you are right that we shouldn't hate cops, it's not hating "peoples," and it's not the same thing.
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)
bruto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 03:45 PM   #125
Fast Eddie B
Philosopher
 
Fast Eddie B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA
Posts: 6,323


As a former LEO, I tried to invoke the Principle of Charity, and put myself in the place of these officers.

And failed.
__________________
“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that...I will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” - President Donald J. Trump, January 20, 2017.
"And it's, frankly, disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. And people should look into it." - President Donald J. Trump, October 11, 2017.
Fast Eddie B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 03:45 PM   #126
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 31,088
Originally Posted by bruto View Post
You may be right that people should not hate the police so much, but last I knew, being a policeman was a choice people make, and not a condition of their existence as race and ethnicity are. As such, even if you are right that we shouldn't hate cops, it's not hating "peoples," and it's not the same thing.
Also, I don't think anyone was claiming to hate all police. Some are hating on particular police persons, like the 50 or so that walked out to protest the disciplinary actions taken a couple of brutal policemen.
__________________
1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 03:47 PM   #127
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 31,088
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...720c110c_z.jpg

As a former LEO, I tried to invoke the Principle of Charity, and put myself in the place of these officers.

And failed.
These are the types of LEO we need to replace. These officers have a warrior mentality to policing and act like civilians are the enemy.
__________________
1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 03:49 PM   #128
CaptainHowdy
Graduate Poster
 
CaptainHowdy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,488
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
How in the world can you give any credence to unbiased studies that show law enforcement officers are more likely to use violence against their spouses to claim that law enforcement officers are more likely to use violence against their spouses? That's like saying that unbiased studies that show black people commit a vastly disproportionate share of violent crimes means that black people commit a vastly disproportionate share off violent crimes.
CaptainHowdy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 03:51 PM   #129
trustbutverify
Philosopher
 
trustbutverify's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 8,098
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Also, I don't think anyone was claiming to hate all police. Some are hating on particular police persons, like the 50 or so that walked out to protest the disciplinary actions taken a couple of brutal policemen.
Can't swear to it, but more than a few seem to have at least come close.
__________________
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -- Mahatma Gandhi

Wollen owns the stage
trustbutverify is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 03:56 PM   #130
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,485
Originally Posted by bruto View Post
You may be right that people should not hate the police so much, but last I knew, being a policeman was a choice people make, and not a condition of their existence as race and ethnicity are. As such, even if you are right that we shouldn't hate cops, it's not hating "peoples," and it's not the same thing.
It's bigger than hatred of cops. It's a hatred that also infests the ISF. Members hating other members and you can't have objective discussions because everyone has to get labelled as either friend or foe. If you seem to be neither then you must be some form of apologist and that is of course another people to hate.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 04:02 PM   #131
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,485
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Also, I don't think anyone was claiming to hate all police. Some are hating on particular police persons, like the 50 or so that walked out to protest the disciplinary actions taken a couple of brutal policemen.
This reminds me of our ISF racists who don't claim to hate all people of color.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 04:06 PM   #132
Fast Eddie B
Philosopher
 
Fast Eddie B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA
Posts: 6,323
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
These are the types of LEO we need to replace. These officers have a warrior mentality to policing and act like civilians are the enemy.
It makes exactly as much sense as slashing the tires of cars parked at a bar because some might be used in a DUI.
__________________
“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that...I will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” - President Donald J. Trump, January 20, 2017.
"And it's, frankly, disgusting the way the press is able to write whatever they want to write. And people should look into it." - President Donald J. Trump, October 11, 2017.
Fast Eddie B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 04:08 PM   #133
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: It was Lothian's idea
Posts: 11,225
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
These are the types of LEO we need to replace. These officers have a warrior mentality to policing and act like civilians are the enemy.
You spelled fascist dick wad wrong.
__________________

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 04:09 PM   #134
Cabbage
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,598
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It's bigger than hatred of cops. It's a hatred that also infests the ISF. Members hating other members and you can't have objective discussions because everyone has to get labelled as either friend or foe. If you seem to be neither then you must be some form of apologist and that is of course another people to hate.

And then there's you: Hatred of the hatred of the hatred.
Cabbage is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 04:10 PM   #135
trustbutverify
Philosopher
 
trustbutverify's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 8,098
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
It makes exactly as much sense as slashing the tires of cars parked at a bar because some might be used in a DUI.
I know of a bar where that might not be a bad idea.
__________________
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -- Mahatma Gandhi

Wollen owns the stage
trustbutverify is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 04:22 PM   #136
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,485
Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
And then there's you: Hatred of the hatred of the hatred.
Wrong.

I have some curiosity of haters who hate haters because of their hatreds. It intrigues me because it suggests that there is good hatred and bad hatred. I know there is a common mantra, "Stop The Hate." But interestingly, it would probably be more accurate if it said, "Stop The Wrong Kind Of Hate."
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 04:23 PM   #137
Cabbage
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,598
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Wrong.

I have some curiosity of haters who hate haters because of their hatreds. It intrigues me because it suggests that there is good hatred and bad hatred. I know there is a common mantra, "Stop The Hate." But interestingly, it would probably be more accurate if it said, "Stop The Wrong Kind Of Hate."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
Cabbage is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 04:34 PM   #138
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,485
A paradox that forces people to be contradictory or hypocritical. Good people with good ideas are forced into this position because they end up deciding that they have to be as bad as their enemy in order to defeat them.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 04:43 PM   #139
SuburbanTurkey
Philosopher
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 5,211
One of the cops that killed Breonna Taylor is accused of 2 rapes of drunk women.

https://people.com/crime/breonna-taylor-sex-assault/
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 04:50 PM   #140
Distracted1
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 4,579
Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
What would such a spreadsheet have to do with police brutalizing people not involved in crimes?

Or even if they were committing crimes, that makes it okay to brutalize someone?
A little bit yes to the second question.

I think the police are most effective when they are a little bit scary.
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 04:56 PM   #141
SuburbanTurkey
Philosopher
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 5,211
Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
A little bit yes to the second question.

I think the police are most effective when they are a little bit scary.
Strange, I'd think they'd be better at their jobs if they thought the might be violently murdered by an angry mob if they made a mistake.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 05:04 PM   #142
bonzombiekitty
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,569
Originally Posted by shemp View Post
These people have the solution to ending racial injustice:
In Philadelphia, a up scale grocery store and food market (DiBruno Brothers) said they will no longer be offering on duty police free lunches. The police union responded by announcing a boycott of the store.
bonzombiekitty is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 05:05 PM   #143
SuburbanTurkey
Philosopher
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 5,211
Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
In Philadelphia, a up scale grocery store and food market (DiBruno Brothers) said they will no longer be offering on duty police free lunches. The police union responded by announcing a boycott of the store.
If I knew a grocery store would never have cops in it, I would only shop there.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 05:10 PM   #144
Distracted1
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 4,579
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Strange, I'd think they'd be better at their jobs if they thought the might be violently murdered by an angry mob if they made a mistake.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
Many of them already know that.
We just have different ideas of what a "mistake" constitutes.
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 05:15 PM   #145
Distracted1
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 4,579
Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
In Philadelphia, a up scale grocery store and food market (DiBruno Brothers) said they will no longer be offering on duty police free lunches. The police union responded by announcing a boycott of the store.
There is a bit more to it Than that.
The day after the rioting started, and after Dibrunos (center city) was looted, they initially offered free stuff to cops and other first responders as a thank you for helping to keep the city going.
Some employees complained to management, and management-seeing the way the wind was blowing- decided that they better not be seen as being appreciative of what the police do for them, lest further damage ensue, so they changed their tune.

One "**** you" begets another.
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 05:20 PM   #146
Giordano
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 17,366
Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
In Philadelphia, a up scale grocery store and food market (DiBruno Brothers) said they will no longer be offering on duty police free lunches. The police union responded by announcing a boycott of the store.
Interesting threat: if we don’t get our food for free we ain’t eating it here no more. That’s really going to hurt them financially...

Last edited by Giordano; 8th June 2020 at 05:21 PM.
Giordano is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 05:21 PM   #147
Distracted1
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 4,579
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
If I knew a grocery store would never have cops in it, I would only shop there.
Wear your face mask.

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...itter/2373246/
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 05:21 PM   #148
Cabbage
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,598
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
A paradox that forces people to be contradictory or hypocritical. Good people with good ideas are forced into this position because they end up deciding that they have to be as bad as their enemy in order to defeat them.

Well I disagree. Hatred of haters is justified and defensible, and it's absurd to put all intolerance and hatred in the same basket.

Do you also draw an equivalence between murder and killing someone in self defense?
Cabbage is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 05:24 PM   #149
Distracted1
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 4,579
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Interesting threat: if we don’t get our food for free we ain’t eating it here no more. That’s really going to hurt them financially...
Little to do with that.
As I said, the boycott was do to the initial offer being rescinded so crassly.

It was a public "**** you cops" calculated to prevent provocation of the protestors leading to potential damage to their other stores- which immediately followed a "bless you cops" message when they thougt that was the best way to come through this whole.
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 05:58 PM   #150
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 90,797
Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
He's correct. Many studies have shown this.

Blacks get as policed as they do because of the amount of crime they generate, simple.
Oh, great. Can you cite three of these studies?
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 05:58 PM   #151
Cabbage
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,598
Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Little to do with that.
As I said, the boycott was do to the initial offer being rescinded so crassly.

It was a public "**** you cops" calculated to prevent provocation of the protestors leading to potential damage to their other stores- which immediately followed a "bless you cops" message when they thougt that was the best way to come through this whole.

You can frame it (as indeed you have) as the store owners submitting to pressure from their employees and the rioting mob.

You could also frame it as the store owners finally becoming aware of the violence of an overzealous police force.

Neither framing makes the other framing false: Both framings merely articulate the agenda of the framer.
Cabbage is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 06:01 PM   #152
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 82,190
Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
In Philadelphia, a up scale grocery store and food market (DiBruno Brothers) said they will no longer be offering on duty police free lunches. The police union responded by announcing a boycott of the store.
Wow, that's disgusting: give us free food or we'll call for a boycott.

I'm guessing their business will increase now.
__________________
ORANGE MAN BAD? Why yes, yes he is.

Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 06:04 PM   #153
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 82,190
Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post


So police would have prevented that?

Pretty far-fetched fear mongering there, D1.
__________________
ORANGE MAN BAD? Why yes, yes he is.

Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 06:16 PM   #154
Distracted1
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 4,579
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post


So police would have prevented that?

Pretty far-fetched fear mongering there, D1.
Wasn't suggesting they would have.
Who did they call after she did though?
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 06:17 PM   #155
Bob001
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: US of A
Posts: 11,020
Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
In Philadelphia, a up scale grocery store and food market (DiBruno Brothers) said they will no longer be offering on duty police free lunches. The police union responded by announcing a boycott of the store.
What's especially bizarre about that is that the department probably has a written policy forbidding cops from accepting anything free. It used to be called takng a bribe. Now the cops are not only admitting it, but demanding it? Defund the police!
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 06:19 PM   #156
Distracted1
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 4,579
Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
You can frame it (as indeed you have) as the store owners submitting to pressure from their employees and the rioting mob.

You could also frame it as the store owners finally becoming aware of the violence of an overzealous police force.

Neither framing makes the other framing false: Both framings merely articulate the agenda of the framer.
You could frame it that way, if you wish.
They were thanking the cops, and offering free lunches right up till it became apparent that the rioting was not done- then they were condemning them.

If you don't find that crass, I think you are being naive.

They never, it seems, decided to offer anything at all to the protestors.
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.

Last edited by Distracted1; 8th June 2020 at 06:21 PM.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 06:28 PM   #157
Distracted1
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 4,579
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
What's especially bizarre about that is that the department probably has a written policy forbidding cops from accepting anything free. It used to be called takng a bribe. Now the cops are not only admitting it, but demanding it? Defund the police!
The free lunches were offered a matter of hours before they were withdrawn.
This was not some long-standing policy of the retailer, or the Police.
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 06:34 PM   #158
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 26,759
Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
In Philadelphia, a up scale grocery store and food market (DiBruno Brothers) said they will no longer be offering on duty police free lunches. The police union responded by announcing a boycott of the store.
Impeccable economic logic. Used to be the store lost Instead of losing money on free lunches, now they won't. I'm sure the store is hurting from that. (corrected based on previous post)
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)

Last edited by bruto; 8th June 2020 at 06:36 PM.
bruto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 06:38 PM   #159
Distracted1
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 4,579
Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Impeccable economic logic. Used to be the store lost Instead of losing money on free lunches, now they won't. I'm sure the store is hurting from that. (corrected based on previous post)
There should really be a link.

They offered the free lunches for a duration of a couple of hours, before rescinding it.
It has not been their policy.

Their original store is in the Italian market, where Mayor Rizzo (statue recently removed) is practically a Saint. They are not going to come out of this better off.
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.

Last edited by Distracted1; 8th June 2020 at 06:41 PM.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th June 2020, 06:42 PM   #160
trustbutverify
Philosopher
 
trustbutverify's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 8,098
Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
The free lunches were offered a matter of hours before they were withdrawn.
This was not some long-standing policy of the retailer, or the Police.
They made a PR error. They corrected it.
__________________
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -- Mahatma Gandhi

Wollen owns the stage
trustbutverify is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:27 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.