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Old 14th June 2020, 01:16 PM   #1
The Atheist
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Karen - Stop!

It's well and truly past time this business of labelling every [white] woman who acts like a racist as "Karen". I'm seeing it everywhere.

It's great for marginalising women who were given the name Karen, but it doesn't advance anything other than stereotypes.

Isn't that something we're trying to stop?
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Old 14th June 2020, 01:58 PM   #2
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And it is entirely incomprehensible to non-Americans.

Also, it is absurd for people who presumably are against discrimination to discriminate against bearers of some specific name.

Hans
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Old 14th June 2020, 02:25 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Also, it is absurd for people who presumably are against discrimination to discriminate against bearers of some specific name.
People referred to disparagingly as "Karens" are very very rarely actually named Karen. It's not their name that is being discriminated against.
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Old 14th June 2020, 02:49 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
And it is entirely incomprehensible to non-Americans.

Also, it is absurd for people who presumably are against discrimination to discriminate against bearers of some specific name.

Hans
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Old 14th June 2020, 02:55 PM   #5
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Sure. We'll get right on this pressing issue... right after entitled, middle class, racist white women can not make an incident for... let's say two weeks.

Until then, suck it up.
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Old 14th June 2020, 03:08 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
It's well and truly past time this business of labelling every [white] woman who acts like a racist as "Karen". I'm seeing it everywhere.

It's great for marginalising women who were given the name Karen, but it doesn't advance anything other than stereotypes.

Isn't that something we're trying to stop?
Indeed. You should bring your concerns to the manager.
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Old 14th June 2020, 03:17 PM   #7
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Yes and Uncle Tom is disparaging to any man named Tom.
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Old 14th June 2020, 03:19 PM   #8
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Can I ask if it’s a GoodFellas reference? Ray Liotta is always saying “Kyaaaa-ren! That was all the money we HAD, Kya-ren!”
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Old 14th June 2020, 03:21 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Juniversal View Post
Yes and Uncle Tom is disparaging to any man named Tom.
It could be, especially if your uncle is black and called Tom. “Hey Uncle Tom, why weren’t you at the Black Lives Matter, protest yesterday? Oh, I guess I answered my own question!”
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Old 14th June 2020, 03:21 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Can I ask if it’s a GoodFellas reference? Ray Liotta is always saying “Kyaaaa-ren! That was all the money we HAD, Kya-ren!”
Know one knows exactly where the term came from.

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/karen
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Old 14th June 2020, 03:33 PM   #11
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Personally I love that there's now a name for this is archetype. Much better than all white women being lumped together as being representative of this entitled behavior that seems to plague many middle aged white women. Not much different then the use of Tom in "Uncle Tom" as an archetype that has little connection to people named Tom.
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Old 14th June 2020, 03:35 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
It's well and truly past time this business of labelling every [white] woman who acts like a racist as "Karen". I'm seeing it everywhere.

It's great for marginalising women who were given the name Karen, but it doesn't advance anything other than stereotypes.

Isn't that something we're trying to stop?
Yeah, let's call them what they are: racist ***** (or Karen, I don't really care)
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Old 14th June 2020, 03:42 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Juniversal View Post
Personally I love that there's now a name for this is archetype. Much better than all white women being lumped together as being representative of this entitled behavior that seems to plague many middle aged white women. Not much different then the use of Tom in "Uncle Tom" as an archetype that has little connection to people named Tom.
Or Aunt Jeremiah. Nothing wrong with white people referring to certain kinds of black women with that name, I suppose. Or Shaniqua, for that matter.

Look at that Shaniqua over there.
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Old 14th June 2020, 03:50 PM   #14
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I think they should be given a name that no one would ever use, like Gnbuygbcrg or Vgynunwrygyqgu or Hortense.
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Old 14th June 2020, 03:54 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
I think they should be given a name that no one would ever use, like Gnbuygbcrg or Vgynunwrygyqgu or Hortense.
How about "entitled"? Or "racist"? Or "obnoxious"? Maybe the problem with those descriptions are they fit too many of the folk using "Karen".
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Old 14th June 2020, 04:18 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
And it is entirely incomprehensible to non-Americans.
Nope. Maybe for non-English speakers, or even Euros, but it's become common enough that Kiwis are using it.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Sure. We'll get right on this pressing issue... right after entitled, middle class, racist white women can not make an incident for... let's say two weeks.

Until then, suck it up.
Mate, it doesn't bother me at all, but the irony of a bunch of people claiming to be anti-something-ist creating a whole new sub-class of women isn't lost on me.

It'd be a pretty easy one to fix.

Originally Posted by Juniversal View Post
Yes and Uncle Tom is disparaging to any man named Tom.
No, because the "Uncle" is always specifically used with it, and it's not dominating news cycles like Karen.

New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Tennessee, Phoenix, take your pick - that's a very small selection recent stories featuring Karen.
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Old 14th June 2020, 05:35 PM   #17
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And Chad, and Little Johnny, and Kevin, and Dick...
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Old 14th June 2020, 05:37 PM   #18
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I have yet to come across the usage of "Karen" on anything about race.

It does seem to be the chosen name for anything cat - and sometime dog - related in cartoons and memes. Such as a startled cat looking in the glass door saying, "Where's your *********** spray bottle now, KAREN?"

The human parent is always Karen, and the cat or dog are always sarcastic.
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Old 14th June 2020, 10:06 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
It's well and truly past time this business of labelling every [white] woman who acts like a racist as "Karen". I'm seeing it everywhere.

It's great for marginalising women who were given the name Karen, but it doesn't advance anything other than stereotypes.

Isn't that something we're trying to stop?

"I'd be happy to call them 'Entitiled, Self-Important, Arrogant Bitch' but I'm lazy at typing so its much easier to simply call them 'Karen'"


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Old 14th June 2020, 10:10 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Mate, it doesn't bother me at all, but the irony of a bunch of people claiming to be anti-something-ist creating a whole new sub-class of women isn't lost on me.

It'd be a pretty easy one to fix.
Yeah, because 'Entitled, Self-Important, Arrogant Bitches' can avoid being sub-classed by not being 'Entitled, Self-Important, Arrogant Bitches'

If you're Black or Latino, not so much!
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Old 15th June 2020, 03:44 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
And it is entirely incomprehensible to non-Americans.

Not anymore, it isn't! Dansk navn svines til i USA (BT, May 24, 2020)

Quote:
Also, it is absurd for people who presumably are against discrimination to discriminate against bearers of some specific name.

You mean, like Brian?!
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Old 15th June 2020, 03:54 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Or Aunt Jeremiah.
As in, if my aunty had balls she’d be my uncle?


(I guess you meant Aunt Jemima?)
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Old 15th June 2020, 04:02 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
I think they should be given a name that no one would ever use, like Gnbuygbcrg or Vgynunwrygyqgu or Hortense.
I know a Hortense, lovely person.
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Old 15th June 2020, 04:22 AM   #24
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Look at that, there's also a Qaren meme. Pretty sure you can work that one out yourselves.
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Old 15th June 2020, 04:31 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Sure. We'll get right on this pressing issue... right after entitled, middle class, racist white women can not make an incident for... let's say two weeks.

Until then, suck it up.
First they came for the Karens, and I did not speak up for I was not a Karen.

...

When they came for me, there were no more managers to talk to.
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Old 15th June 2020, 04:43 AM   #26
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Ok, Boomer.
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Old 15th June 2020, 05:01 AM   #27
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The Karen trope is especially funny to me because at my work there is a woman named Karen, who has that hair style, and who tends to behave in that fashion. If she has an iota of self-awareness she'll return post-pandemic with a new hair style...but then again, if she had an iota of self-awareness she wouldn't act like she does.

Crowning irony: she is herself a manager.
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Old 15th June 2020, 05:02 AM   #28
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Not all Karens:



Second sign a bit cropped, it reads "I'd like to speak to the manager of systematic racism please".
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Old 15th June 2020, 05:09 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Not anymore, it isn't! Dansk navn svines til i USA (BT, May 24, 2020)...

My god! What the heck is BT?! British Trollium?!
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Old 15th June 2020, 06:27 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
As in, if my aunty had balls she’d be my uncle?


(I guess you meant Aunt Jemima?)
I did, thanks.
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Old 15th June 2020, 06:47 AM   #31
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Not all Chads are virgins.
Not all Johns solicit prostitutes.
Not all Joes are regular.
Tom, Dick, and Harry don't hang out together that often.

You'll get over it.
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Old 15th June 2020, 06:57 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Not all Chads are virgins.
Is that the trope? I thought it was the opposite, that Chads were real ladykillers.
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Old 15th June 2020, 07:04 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Is that the trope? I thought it was the opposite, that Chads were real ladykillers.
No. Chads are shallow frat boys. They may or may not have success with women, but they wear baseball hats backwards while wearing sunglasses, get drunk, and play x-box.
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Old 15th June 2020, 07:05 AM   #34
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The sad thing is that most Karens think they are Mary Sues.
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Old 15th June 2020, 07:11 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
I have yet to come across the usage of "Karen" on anything about race.

It does seem to be the chosen name for anything cat - and sometime dog - related in cartoons and memes. Such as a startled cat looking in the glass door saying, "Where's your *********** spray bottle now, KAREN?"

The human parent is always Karen, and the cat or dog are always sarcastic.
It's been interesting to watch it evolve. The first time I heard it was a description of an image or short video with a cat watching his/her human do something that even the cat knew was dumb and would inconvenience the cat, with the cat then quoted as saying something like "Dammit, Karen, what did you do that for‽".

Then I started seeing & hearing it for women who like to make excessive demands for special treatment and pick verbal fights in public where it might get it other people's way, which was easy to boil down to demanding to talk to "the manager" wherever she goes. I guess the connection that got it here from the cat/dog thing was that the same kind of woman who was likely to have a cat or a small dog (which she might not be very good at taking care of) was also likely to be that kind of trouble-maker. And this also seems to be when she got a standard karen hairstyle that I've seen used to represent her as a silhouette a few times: roughly spherical, ending no lower than her lower jaw.

Only in the last few weeks have I heard it a few times about women who try to get black people arrested for crimes like buying the last bag of Fritos when Karen didn't even want the Fritos herself. This is an easier connection to make from the last step, because it's just another form of public trouble-making. But now we have a thread here started by somebody who's apparently run into this one a lot more than me, enough to get annoyed by it and apparently think that this particular subset of public trouble-making is the definition of a karen, not the broader scope that recently had karens yelling at retail/restaurant employees of all races. (It's only been a couple of weeks since I saw a case of the second phase, so I can't say yet whether the third phase has replaced it or they both coexist for at least some users of the word.)

So she's gone from bad pet ownership, to petty selfishness & overreactions over minor business complaints, to racist harassment, all in under a year.
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Old 15th June 2020, 07:16 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
It's been interesting to watch it evolve. The first time I heard it was a description of an image or short video with a cat watching his/her human do something that even the cat knew was dumb and would inconvenience the cat, with the cat then quoted as saying something like "Dammit, Karen, what did you do that for‽".

Then I started seeing & hearing it for women who like to make excessive demands for special treatment and pick verbal fights in public where it might get it other people's way, which was easy to boil down to demanding to talk to "the manager" wherever she goes. I guess the connection that got it here from the cat/dog thing was that the same kind of woman who was likely to have a cat or a small dog (which she might not be very good at taking care of) was also likely to be that kind of trouble-maker. And this also seems to be when she got a standard karen hairstyle that I've seen used to represent her as a silhouette a few times: roughly spherical, ending no lower than her lower jaw.

Only in the last few weeks have I heard it a few times about women who try to get black people arrested for crimes like buying the last bag of Fritos when Karen didn't even want the Fritos herself. This is an easier connection to make from the last step, because it's just another form of public trouble-making. But now we have a thread here started by somebody who's apparently run into this one a lot more than me, enough to get annoyed by it and apparently think that this particular subset of public trouble-making is the definition of a karen, not the broader scope that recently had karens yelling at retail/restaurant employees of all races. (It's only been a couple of weeks since I saw a case of the second phase, so I can't say yet whether the third phase has replaced it or they both coexist for at least some users of the word.)

So she's gone from bad pet ownership, to petty selfishness & overreactions over minor business complaints, to racist harassment, all in under a year.
I think the connection between business complaining Karens and cop calling Karens is that they see the cops as the "manager" of public space. So escalating a petty squabble to a 911 call is the rough equivalent of demanding to speak to a manager.

An earlier example was the lady that called the cops on a black family having a cookout in a public park, though the name "Karen" wasn't being used yet. She was referred to online as "BBQ Becky". Then came the endless parade of other similar stories of frivolous 911 calls.

The behavior, whining to increasing authority figures in order to get their way and/or punish those that weren't obsequious enough, seems similar, though the police escalation Karens are obviously the most dangerous.
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Old 15th June 2020, 07:24 AM   #37
Dave Rogers
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
The sad thing is that most Karens think they are Mary Sues.
I can't fathom the level of existential dread required for anyone to think they themself are a Mary Sue.

Dave
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Old 15th June 2020, 11:43 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Not all Chads are virgins.
Not all Johns solicit prostitutes.
Not all Joes are regular.
Tom, Dick, and Harry don't hang out together that often.

You'll get over it.
And not all Shaniquas are uneducated and quick to hysterics. Get over it, people.
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Old 15th June 2020, 11:48 AM   #39
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All this really reinforces how few first names people generally draw from in naming their kids. I think people should be more imaginative, and try to come up with unique names. Or at least less common ones, said Michael.
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Old 15th June 2020, 12:03 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
All this really reinforces how few first names people generally draw from in naming their kids. I think people should be more imaginative, and try to come up with unique names.
No, they should not.
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