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Old 15th June 2020, 12:04 PM   #41
Gilbert Syndrome
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
It's well and truly past time this business of labelling every [white] woman who acts like a racist as "Karen". I'm seeing it everywhere.

It's great for marginalising women who were given the name Karen, but it doesn't advance anything other than stereotypes.

Isn't that something we're trying to stop?
What people are and aren't trying to stop is often a confusing trip down yellowbrick road.
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Old 15th June 2020, 12:16 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
All this really reinforces how few first names people generally draw from in naming their kids. I think people should be more imaginative, and try to come up with unique names. Or at least less common ones, said Michael.
Did you know that the government of Iceland maintains an official list of acceptable first names for newborn children? If a parent tries to insist on choosing a name that is not on this list, the courts will actually intervene and assign the child an acceptable legal name over the parent's wishes.
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Old 15th June 2020, 12:20 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Did you know that the government of Iceland maintains an official list of acceptable first names for newborn children? If a parent tries to insist on choosing a name that is not on this list, the courts will actually intervene and assign the child an acceptable legal name over the parent's wishes.
There are several places that do that. I think it's wrong, naming one's child should be left up to whoever's responsible for that child. That way the child can resent the right people.
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Old 15th June 2020, 12:44 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
All this really reinforces how few first names people generally draw from in naming their kids. I think people should be more imaginative, and try to come up with unique names. Or at least less common ones, said Michael.
Hey, I resemble that remark. I have three kids with my wife and they all have unique names.

Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
What people are and aren't trying to stop is often a confusing trip down yellowbrick road.
Yeah, but rasing others along the way seems a little counter-productive.

Even when there's absolutely no need for it.

An acronym would serve perfectly well.

How about SUSAN?

(Self-entitled Useless Semi-racist ******* Numpty)
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Old 15th June 2020, 12:53 PM   #45
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Tangential to the OP but not entirely unrelated: Why do we give hurricanes the names we do? We should be calling them Darth Vader, or even Hitler, or Orange Fart, that kind of thing.
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Old 15th June 2020, 12:58 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Yeah, but rasing others along the way seems a little counter-productive.

Even when there's absolutely no need for it.

An acronym would serve perfectly well.

How about SUSAN?

(Self-entitled Useless Semi-racist ******* Numpty)
I often just call them knobheads, lol.

I just find it hard to navigate the things people deem to be okay versus the things they're vehemently against, because the lines are often blurred between the two of them.

I agree that many of the more vocal supporters of social justice are quite often as ignorant as the people they're striving to diminish. They only see in black and white, ironically, you're either with them 100% of the way or you're a racist homophobe who probably eats kids, kicks puppies and listens to Gary Glitter.
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Old 15th June 2020, 01:01 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
Tangential to the OP but not entirely unrelated: Why do we give hurricanes the names we do? We should be calling them Darth Vader, or even Hitler, or Orange Fart, that kind of thing.
You mean like the first Hurricane Karen? [Wikipedia]
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Old 15th June 2020, 01:08 PM   #48
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Hadn't heard of that one! So, a nasty wind-weather formation, as well as a nasty person. Shouldn't be surprised, now, if the Karens of the world started together every week to weep and wail and then plan retaliatory action against non-Karens!
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Old 15th June 2020, 01:17 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post

An acronym would serve perfectly well.

How about SUSAN?

(Self-entitled Useless Semi-racist ******* Numpty)
How about Kook-Arsed, Rude, Entitled Nutjob
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Old 15th June 2020, 02:35 PM   #50
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Pretty sure the only literal Karens who are complaining about this are the ones who are also exactly the figurative Karens this figure of speech was coined for.

For whom this figure of speech was coined.
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Old 15th June 2020, 02:37 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
An acronym would serve perfectly well.
Obviously not, or we'd have an acronym instead of an epithet already.
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Old 15th June 2020, 02:46 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
Tangential to the OP but not entirely unrelated: Why do we give hurricanes the names we do? We should be calling them Darth Vader, or even Hitler, or Orange Fart, that kind of thing.
Rent free.

Also, the World Meteorological Association chooses names by committee for lists that are strictly followed in rotation.

Names are retired when the death toll is very high, for reasons of sensitivity. So Hitler would be an obvious bad choice.

Also, hurricanes are not named after specific individuals.

https://public.wmo.int/en/our-mandat...yclones/Naming

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/storm-names.html
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Old 15th June 2020, 02:51 PM   #53
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Funnily enough, naming hurricanes with people names does make them easier to remember.
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Old 15th June 2020, 03:16 PM   #54
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Works the other way round, too! Norman "Hurricane" Smith (Wikipedia)
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Old 15th June 2020, 03:42 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
How about Kook-Arsed, Rude, Entitled Nutjob
How about uppity white bitch?
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Old 15th June 2020, 04:46 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
Tangential to the OP but not entirely unrelated: Why do we give hurricanes the names we do? We should be calling them Darth Vader, or even Hitler, or Orange Fart, that kind of thing.
Funny story on that subject.

The UK weather service started naming major storms that weren't cyclones and hit the bright idea of selling sponsorship of the names, so you could have "Storm McDonald's".

The first one they tried was bad enough to kill a load of people.

I would have thought the simplest way to name cyclone systems would be 2020/1, 2 etc.

Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
I agree that many of the more vocal supporters of social justice are quite often as ignorant as the people they're striving to diminish. They only see in black and white, ironically, you're either with them 100% of the way or you're a racist homophobe who probably eats kids, kicks puppies and listens to Gary Glitter.
Bingo.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Pretty sure the only literal Karens who are complaining about this are the ones who are also exactly the figurative Karens this figure of speech was coined for.

For whom this figure of speech was coined.
Did you ever apply for Randi's mio?
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Old 15th June 2020, 04:59 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Did you ever apply for Randi's mio?
Randi's awarding Kraft drink mix prizes for tautologies? I honestly did not know that.
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Old 15th June 2020, 05:04 PM   #58
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One of the ladies at my work changed her hair recently. Got rid of her usual blond asymmetrical bob (the trope-fitting Karen do) and now has her hair longer, straight, and brunette. I think she did it because she doesn't want to be associated with that meme.

It's rather sad, really, because I'd noticed before the meme was born that that particular hairstyle actually suited her very well. Like all hairstyles, it works on some people, it's all based on the shape of the face and head.
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Old 15th June 2020, 05:24 PM   #59
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Is she middle aged?
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Old 15th June 2020, 05:28 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
I can't fathom the level of existential dread required for anyone to think they themself are a Mary Sue.
She not only saved the Enterprise when all seemed lost, but she had great sex with both Spock and Kirk before dying tragically young and beautiful.
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Old 15th June 2020, 05:46 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Did you ever apply for Randi's mio?
More seriously: Think about it.

Either you're an easygoing person with a sense of humor, who doesn't take things personally or hold irrational grudges... Or you're the kind of person who carries a massive sense of unearned entitlement and perceives everything as a personal slight - i.e., a "Karen".

The term was coined exactly for this kind of person.
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Old 15th June 2020, 05:56 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Is she middle aged?
Yep. A bit pudgy, too. Visually she fit, before the hair change, the Karen meme to a T. But not personality wise, she's extremely nice.
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Old 15th June 2020, 05:58 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Randi's awarding Kraft drink mix prizes for tautologies? I honestly did not know that.
Tautology? I don't recall seeing any. It looked like clairvoyance.

(I always capitalise proper nouns, so you should have known it wasn't that - check my custom title)
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Old 15th June 2020, 05:59 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Yep. A bit pudgy, too. Visually she fit, before the hair change, the Karen meme to a T. But not personality wise, she's extremely nice.
Um... that's not good. Has she ever asked for a manager?
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Old 15th June 2020, 06:02 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Um... that's not good. Has she ever asked for a manager?
I don't know, I only know her at work, I haven't followed her around while she's doing her shopping. But I doubt it, she's very nice to the people she works with, including her own underlings. I can't see a "Karen" being nice to her own underlings.
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Old 15th June 2020, 06:15 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I don't know, I only know her at work, I haven't followed her around while she's doing her shopping. But I doubt it, she's very nice to the people she works with, including her own underlings. I can't see a "Karen" being nice to her own underlings.
She may be hiding her inner Karen. Some of these entitled white bitches eventually learn how to keep their mouths shut in polite company.
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Old 15th June 2020, 06:16 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Tautology? I don't recall seeing any. It looked like clairvoyance.
It's a tautology. The term was coined to describe exactly the kind of person who would complain about it because it also happens to be their name.
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Old 15th June 2020, 06:52 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
One of the ladies at my work changed her hair recently... I think she did it because she doesn't want to be associated with that meme.
I've been there, just with a different couple of memes. I'm stuck with rather curly hair for a white man, and grew up in an era when that meant getting harassed about it at school constantly(complete with accusations of using products I'd never even heard of otherwise like something called "Jerry Curl".) The only possible role a character in a TV shows or movie could have with this hair is the goofy sidekick whose job is to make the audience laugh at him and help the real hero seem better by comparison, which meant not only seeing that stuff myself but also being constantly reminded of it by the other kids making the obviously hilarious comparisons... which is an extra thing that doesn't apply to karen hair because it's not being used for karen symbolism on-screen (yet). And I depended on my parents to get me out for haircuts and they'd always find ways to delay it for weeks so it would get extra-huge. And my mother would try to tell me it was good in the horrifying ways that only a mother could think sounded good, but then both parents would always be on my case to do something else with it to make it look different from whatever it looked like at that moment (as long as it doesn't get cut, no never not that!), which equaled admitting it was already bad to start with, when they knew perfectly well that combs & brushes had no effect on it except maybe to make it even worse anyway so the only thing that would really help was cutting it which they'd block me from having done...

So of course, as soon as I had any choice about it, I buzzed it all off and kept doing so for practically my entire adult life since then... which just walked me into another new meme, because everybody knows that a young white man with his hair buzzed off must be looking for an excuse for violence at any time, especially if he also happens to be stocky so the only general physique types he can choose from are muscular and fat, not average or skinny. Again, back to movies & TV, the only possible characters Neo-Nazis/KKK, hitmen, mercenaries, the worst of the bad cops, former military members who have cracked or are about to crack... plus maybe an occasional gun-obsessed hillbilly or athlete who keeps getting kicked out for violence on the field. In real life, I've had people literally get scared of me or accuse me of losing my temper on sight before I had a chance to do or say anything, and had co-workers who knew how harmless I am think it was hilarious that the guy in the "what to do in a workplace shooting incident" video supposedly looked just like me. I kept putting up with it only because the alternative was the clown hair.
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Old 15th June 2020, 07:42 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's a tautology. The term was coined to describe exactly the kind of person who would complain about it because it also happens to be their name.
Nope - you're either getting your terms mixed up, or the person who coined that usage was an idiot.
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Old 16th June 2020, 07:36 AM   #70
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No need to be sexist anymore: Crowd chanting “go home” to what they call Mr. Karen (Guardian, June 16, 2020).
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Old 16th June 2020, 07:49 AM   #71
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Okay, so I may have helped kick off some of this debate with my posts in the "Arizona Karen" thread. And while I do think the Karen meme is a bit out of control, and I definitely dislike the "haircut" portion and find it sexist and unnecessary, I've come to see that it's not that big of a deal overall.

I also had a moment of self-awareness where I saw the conversation from others' points of view. People were in that thread talking about inexcusably racist behaviors, and then I came barging in with complaints about the terminology they were using to describe the racist. Yes, I was making a general complaint and not defending that specific woman, but my timing was tone-deaf as hell. It wasn't well thought-out, and in the scheme of things, the problem isn't that severe. So while I still think the comparison to names like "John" is shaky, I'm giving up worrying about the issue. The meme will burn itself out eventually, just like "arrow to the knee," and the Karen-concept will remain as something that must be dealt with.

Hope that makes sense.
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Old 16th June 2020, 08:02 AM   #72
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It's easy to see how it can be annoying to all the nice women out there called Karen, but they'll probably be able to turn it into a joke. The Karen Karens probably won't.
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Old 16th June 2020, 08:11 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
There are several places that do that. I think it's wrong, naming one's child should be left up to whoever's responsible for that child. That way the child can resent the right people.
There are over 4000 names on Iceland's list of approved names so far, and parents can apply to have another one added (not sure about selection criteria), so you have to really work at it to get one that causes a court case.
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Old 16th June 2020, 08:18 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Random View Post
There are over 4000 names on Iceland's list of approved names so far, and parents can apply to have another one added (not sure about selection criteria), so you have to really work at it to get one that causes a court case.
I'm objecting on principle, not on the number of choices on the state-approved array.
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Old 16th June 2020, 08:21 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Nope - you're either getting your terms mixed up, or the person who coined that usage was an idiot.
I think the more likely explanation is that you're ignorant of how the term is actually used by the people who deal with Karens every day in their jobs.
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Old 16th June 2020, 08:22 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
(I always capitalise proper nouns, so you should have known it wasn't that - check my custom title)
(I think it's understandable that I don't trust the orthographic diligence and consistency of someone who lets slip a typo like "mio" for "mil".)
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Old 16th June 2020, 08:52 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
It's easy to see how it can be annoying to all the nice women out there called Karen, but they'll probably be able to turn it into a joke. The Karen Karens probably won't.
They'll be all right. They'll find the Karen Karen Karens.
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Old 16th June 2020, 08:56 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Funnily enough, naming hurricanes with people names does make them easier to remember.
Until you've used the same name a few times and then it's hard to keep track, unless you refer to them with names like Hurricane Malcolm the third, or Hurricane Jane part deux.
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Generic proclamation of positivity:

Scouse saying - Go 'ed, is right, nice one, boss, well in, sound, belter, made up.

Usage: 'Go 'ed, lad, get us an ale in, nice one.'
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Old 16th June 2020, 09:01 AM   #79
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Hurricane Leone Sextus Denys Oswolf Fraudatifilius Tollemache-Tollemache de Orellana Plantagenet Tollemache-Tollemache was surprisingly mild.
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Old 16th June 2020, 09:05 AM   #80
Gilbert Syndrome
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
So of course, as soon as I had any choice about it, I buzzed it all off and kept doing so for practically my entire adult life since then... which just walked me into another new meme, because everybody knows that a young white man with his hair buzzed off must be looking for an excuse for violence at any time, especially if he also happens to be stocky so the only general physique types he can choose from are muscular and fat, not average or skinny. Again, back to movies & TV, the only possible characters Neo-Nazis/KKK, hitmen, mercenaries, the worst of the bad cops, former military members who have cracked or are about to crack... plus maybe an occasional gun-obsessed hillbilly or athlete who keeps getting kicked out for violence on the field. In real life, I've had people literally get scared of me or accuse me of losing my temper on sight before I had a chance to do or say anything, and had co-workers who knew how harmless I am think it was hilarious that the guy in the "what to do in a workplace shooting incident" video supposedly looked just like me. I kept putting up with it only because the alternative was the clown hair.
That's what's funny about society. They bleat on about not judging people by their appearance and that's exactly what everyone does anyway. It's not a bad thing to do, though, we all make those judgments. If you're walking down a dimly-lit street at night and a group of hooded males are walking your way, you're instantly making a natural judgment in order to assess the situation. So when people harp on about not being judgmental, they're generally lying through their teeth.

As far as shaving your head goes, I had long hair as an early teen, got hunted down for it by white and black kids, because I was different, in a school where kids didn't generally have long hair or listen to anything other than rap or dance music. Then when I began shaving my head I noticed people looking at me differently again and assuming I was in the NF, lol, so you honestly can't win with everyone, and frankly, who cares? I take everyone as they come, and I don't judge anyone based on what somebody else tells me. If I get along with you, then that's good enough for me, if I don't, then to hell with you.
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Generic proclamation of positivity:

Scouse saying - Go 'ed, is right, nice one, boss, well in, sound, belter, made up.

Usage: 'Go 'ed, lad, get us an ale in, nice one.'
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