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Old 18th June 2020, 10:37 AM   #121
theprestige
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I assume they chose that name after Saint CrackaNutz42069, who in 800 cured the population of Rome of the plague by casting the disease into rats, which to be honest didn't really fix things.
That was Saint CrackaNutz800. Saint CrackaNutz42069 will cast the disease into rats in 42069, which actually will fix things.
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Old 18th June 2020, 12:46 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Butter! View Post
I want to stop caring about this, but I just can't stand how much people are missing the point. It seems almost willful.
Doesn't that describe almost every subject?

(I see you've changed your name - hopefully not in memory of Marlon Brando in Last Tango in Paris!)

Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Like it or not, Karen is now the permanent name for female busy-body tattletales who seem to focus on races of people not their own.

The Internet caused the instantaneous creation of a new word and meme. It will stick because it will now never go away.

The Internet gave birth to Karen and the Internet will also prevent the death of Karen. Get used to it.
Yeah, just like the n-word used to be perfectly fine for describing people of colour.

Why the hell didn't they just get over it already? What's in a name, amirite?
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Old 18th June 2020, 01:16 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Yeah, just like the n-word used to be perfectly fine for describing people of colour.

Why the hell didn't they just get over it already? What's in a name, amirite?
Calm down. I'm pretty sure no one is going to enslave any Karen.

But seriously, your comparison is hilariously out of place and pointless. You might want to take a deep breath.
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Old 18th June 2020, 01:28 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Butter! View Post
Anyway, something like a forum handle is (in my perception) less personal and less of a big deal than a name. I mean, people regularly choose names like "CrackaNutz42069" for themselves on Reddit. Nevertheless though, our home base ISF does actually prohibit the use of people's handles in ways they find objectionable (within reason). So the practice is seen as uncivil. Still, it's hard to compare.

We had at least one Karen back when the forum belonged to the JREF, and she was the reason why I joined. (Notice my join date!)
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...190#post470190
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Old 18th June 2020, 02:32 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
Calm down. I'm pretty sure no one is going to enslave any Karen.
Umm, you do realise the word isn't actually related to slaves?

Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
But seriously, your comparison is hilariously out of place and pointless.
Seems exactly the same to me. A pejorative is a pejorative is a pejorative.

Someone is on the receiving end of it.

Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
You might want to take a deep breath.
Not even close to needing a deep breath.

It's not a subject that has any emotional attachment for me, and I repeat, the reason I'm interested in it is because the people using it are generally people who are standing up against racism/someotherism, and the irony of a group targeting another (almost entirely innocent*) group to prove how virtuous they are, is bloody hilarious.

*I'm sure some of the women are actually named Karen, but only in proportion to women's names in general, ergo: most of them are innocent.
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Old 18th June 2020, 10:54 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Umm, you do realise the word isn't actually related to slaves?
It absolutely is. That's why your comparison is so hilariously out of place. Educate yourself before posting nonsense.

Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Not even close to needing a deep breath.

It's not a subject that has any emotional attachment for me, and I repeat, the reason I'm interested in it is because the people using it are generally people who are standing up against racism/someotherism, and the irony of a group targeting another (almost entirely innocent*) group to prove how virtuous they are, is bloody hilarious.

*I'm sure some of the women are actually named Karen, but only in proportion to women's names in general, ergo: most of them are innocent.
Seriously? You complain about "virtue signalling"? (How I hate this expression and the people who use it)
BTW, you are doing the exact same thing right now,lol.

Again, take a deep breath or two and you will see that all of your concerns regarding the "Karen"-issue are completely irrelevant.
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Old 18th June 2020, 11:25 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
It absolutely is. That's why your comparison is so hilariously out of place. Educate yourself before posting nonsense.


Get a grip, mate, the word pre-dates USA, never mind US slaves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negro

Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
Seriously? You complain about "virtue signalling"? (How I hate this expression and the people who use it)
Do you even read, mate? It sure doesn't look like it, because you totally missed the point.

Here, let me repeat it for you in bold and see if you can grasp it this time:

and the irony of a group targeting another (almost entirely innocent*) group to prove how virtuous they are, is bloody hilarious.
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Old 18th June 2020, 11:42 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post


Get a grip, mate, the word pre-dates USA, never mind US slaves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negro
lol, from the very article you linked:

Quote:
John Belton O'Neall's The Negro Law of South Carolina (1848) stipulated that "the term negro is confined to slave Africans,
As I said, educate yourself before posting stupid comparisons.

Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Do you even read, mate? It sure doesn't look like it, because you totally missed the point.

Here, let me repeat it for you in bold and see if you can grasp it this time:

and the irony of a group targeting another (almost entirely innocent*) group to prove how virtuous they are, is bloody hilarious.
You are doing the exact same thing you are so outraged about.

Also: "almost entirely innocent". How is being a racist **** "almost entirely innocent"?
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Old 19th June 2020, 11:48 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
As I said, educate yourself before posting stupid comparisons.
400 years after the origin of the term.

You do realise there's an entire world out there that isn't America.

Historical revisionism at its finest.

Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
Also: "almost entirely innocent". How is being a racist **** "almost entirely innocent"?
Ah, I was right a couple of posts ago - you not only don't understand the origins of language, you're unable to read it.

You're conflating two different things. Try reading it again for comprehension rather than the faux outrage you're trying to project.

TIA
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Old 19th June 2020, 12:03 PM   #130
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I would have thought that expressing disgust at the presumed suffering of some group you’re not a member of (people named Karen) without so much as consulting with any actual members of that group to see how they feel about it, or even finding any to quote, would flying-colors qualify as virtue signalling.

Chanakya has a point there.

Last edited by Lithrael; 19th June 2020 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 19th June 2020, 12:56 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Juniversal View Post
Yes and Uncle Tom is disparaging to any man named Tom.
"Oh. My. God. Becky. Look at. Her. Butt."
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Old 19th June 2020, 01:03 PM   #132
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"He better call Becky with the good hair."

What is a Becky?
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Old 19th June 2020, 01:52 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Lithrael View Post
I would have thought that expressing disgust...
Nice strawman you've built there - want a hand setting fire to it?

Show me where I've expressed anything like disgust.

The strongest comment I've made in the thread was in the OP:

Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
It's well and truly past time this business of labelling every [white] woman who acts like a racist as "Karen". I'm seeing it everywhere.

It's great for marginalising women who were given the name Karen, but it doesn't advance anything other than stereotypes.

Isn't that something we're trying to stop?
In fact, I've gone out of my way to state I find it all amusing and ironic. No disgust.

Originally Posted by Lithrael View Post
...at the presumed suffering of some group youíre not a member of (people named Karen)...
I haven't mentioned suffering, either.

Feel free to try again.
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Old 20th June 2020, 01:35 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post


Get a grip, mate, the word pre-dates USA, never mind US slaves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negro



Do you even read, mate? It sure doesn't look like it, because you totally missed the point.

Here, let me repeat it for you in bold and see if you can grasp it this time:

and the irony of a group targeting another (almost entirely innocent*) group to prove how virtuous they are, is bloody hilarious.

Whilst Iím not going to use ďKarenĒ and was unaware of it until itís recent usage on the forum your bolded section is not a correct summary. This label is being applied to individuals not a group, so someone acts in a particular way they are being labelled as ďanother KarenĒ. That is a significant difference to racial slurs.
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Old 20th June 2020, 01:37 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Lithrael View Post
I would have thought that expressing disgust at the presumed suffering of some group youíre not a member of (people named Karen) without so much as consulting with any actual members of that group to see how they feel about it, or even finding any to quote, would flying-colors qualify as virtue signalling.

Chanakya has a point there.

People are only being labelled Karen because of their behaviour, it isnít (as far as my limited research) being used for example to tie together all middle aged white looking women.
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Old 20th June 2020, 01:53 AM   #136
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You mean Boomer Karens?!
(But I agree.)
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Old 20th June 2020, 02:04 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
400 years after the origin of the term.

You do realise there's an entire world out there that isn't America.

Historical revisionism at its finest.



Ah, I was right a couple of posts ago - you not only don't understand the origins of language, you're unable to read it.

You're conflating two different things. Try reading it again for comprehension rather than the faux outrage you're trying to project.

TIA
This is pure gold.

Well, anyway, I will continue to call Karens Karen and there is literally nothing you can do about it. Good luck on your cute little crusade, I'm wondering if this useless thread will be abandoned within one or two weeks.
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Old 20th June 2020, 03:30 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
People are only being labelled Karen because of their behaviour, it isnít (as far as my limited research) being used for example to tie together all middle aged white looking women.
With the bob haircut, which seems to be popular in that group.

Maybe different up your end of the world, but it's pretty common in USA, and even down here.
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Old 20th June 2020, 06:14 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
People are only being labelled Karen because of their behaviour, it isnít (as far as my limited research) being used for example to tie together all middle aged white looking women.
In any interaction with a middle-aged white looking woman, the pejorative "Karen" can be thrown out.
Much like the "n" word pejorative lies in wait in any negative interaction with a person of color- admittedly to a much greater scale.

It is either wrong to label groups of people with pejorative tags that obliterate their personhood in favor of a hate-label, or it is not. It cannot be right for some and wrong for others.
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Old 20th June 2020, 06:27 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Pretty sure the only literal Karens who are complaining about this are the ones who are also exactly the figurative Karens this figure of speech was coined for.

For whom this figure of speech was coined.
And I am PrettysureTM you are wrong incorrect mistaken.

YMMV

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Old 20th June 2020, 06:42 AM   #141
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I'm not going to compare Karen to the n-word, of course. It's not even in the same galaxy.

But my problem with it is that it HAS grown pretty far outside the bounds of its intended usage (in US culture and sections of internet culture, at least). It just means "unattractive older woman" in a lot of circles.

But I feel like I'm definitely repeating myself at this point. I don't think this discussion can be had sensibly because of the race angle. Anyone trying to point out that "Karen" is out of control in its applicability can easily be construed as defending racists. This makes the discussion rather pointless.

I'm also kind of biased, because I personally hate the repetitiveness of meme humor. The only meme I ever really liked was "arrow to the knee." So I acknowledge that factor, too. The more I hear "Karen," the more it grates. I thought it was a tiny bit funny at first.
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Old 20th June 2020, 06:48 AM   #142
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Well, if the overall point is people shouldnít call people disparaging names, Iím on board with that anytime.
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Old 20th June 2020, 06:53 AM   #143
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I'm okay with calling people disparaging names that relate to their behavior (if said behavior is bullying, obnoxious, racist, or something, I mean). I'm obviously less enthusiastic about calling people disparaging names that relate to their appearance or age. I believe "Karen" started out as the former and is morphing into the latter (again, in some contexts). I wish it would go back to simply describing the former.
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Old 20th June 2020, 06:59 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by Butter! View Post
I'm also kind of biased, because I personally hate the repetitiveness of meme humor. The only meme I ever really liked was "arrow to the knee." So I acknowledge that factor, too. The more I hear "Karen," the more it grates. I thought it was a tiny bit funny at first.
Karen would like to speak to the Jarl, she has a complaint about arrow safety in Whiterun and wants him to pay her Restoration mage for her orthopedic knee surgery. Also she's noticed that some of the nearby tombs have undesirable squatters, draugr are quite the wrong sort of people. And can something be done about the noise level in town? People shouldn't dragon shout at night.
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Old 20th June 2020, 07:08 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by Butter! View Post
I'm okay with calling people disparaging names that relate to their behavior (if said behavior is bullying, obnoxious, racist, or something, I mean). I'm obviously less enthusiastic about calling people disparaging names that relate to their appearance or age. I believe "Karen" started out as the former and is morphing into the latter (again, in some contexts). I wish it would go back to simply describing the former.
Disparaging names that refer to a specific behavior typically have the name of that behavior in the word.
"Stop being such a (bully, racist, obnoxious etc..)"
One behaves in those ways.

One is a Karen, Spic, ******, what have you. These pejorative are not behavior related obviously. One would not call an Asian teenager behaving the same way a "Karen"
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Old 20th June 2020, 11:06 AM   #146
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Okay, guys, you who object to the Karen meme -- that kind of includes me too, I guess, kind of -- here's a simple enough solution. Just get someone to sign up here, at ISF, with the user name Karen. And bang! Any subsequent use of the Karen meme -- or at least, most/many such usages, unless very carefully used -- will be an MA violation, and can be reported as such. Problem solved? (Or do we need an FMF thread to confirm this?)

eta: Well, okay, that won't impact the world outside, nor even what forum members do outside of here, but still?

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Old 20th June 2020, 11:17 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
Okay, guys, you who object to the Karen meme -- that kind of includes me too, I guess, kind of -- here's a simple enough solution. Just get someone to sign up here, at ISF, with the user name Karen. And bang! Any subsequent use of the Karen meme -- or at least, most/many such usages, unless very carefully used -- will be an MA violation, and can be reported as such. Problem solved? (Or do we need an FMF thread to confirm this?)

eta: Well, okay, that won't impact the world outside, nor even what forum members do outside of here, but still?
Not sure if joke, but I'm going to respond in earnest anyway.

I'm not a fan of "gotcha! found a loophole!" solutions. I also don't think your idea would even be technically true, according to the MA? Someone having the handle "Karen" would not, to my knowledge, preclude the use of the Karen meme in general contexts. If that were true, someone could scoop up the handle "Republican" and no one could ever make generalizations about Republicans again. I think? The MA isn't quite that technical, as I understand it. Which is a good thing.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I never want to "silence" anybody. When I argue, I'm trying to get other people to see and consider my point of view. Best case scenario, they incorporate my viewpoint into their own. Worst case scenario, they call me a snowflake and keep doing what they're doing. At the same time, I'm listening to their points of view, and attempting to see where we share common ground.

I want people here to consider the possibility that the application of "Karen" has become a bit too broad to be meaningful, that the meme has sexist/ageist/lookist undertones, and that it may be hurting the feelings of uninvolved people. That's all, really. I enjoy discussing the topic. It's one of the few social topics I've felt like discussing since quarantine began, actually, because the stakes aren't really that high. People here are intelligent, and the mean age is on the older side. This usually makes for a richer discussion, and this topic is no exception.

The last thing I would want to do is say "Neener, neener! You guys can't say it now!" That wouldn't do even a slight bit of good. Ultimately, people are going to do what they want. I don't really care. I just like discussing it.
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Old 20th June 2020, 11:27 AM   #148
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Joke, joke. Well, half a joke, actually. The other half was serious, though.

But I agree, this would -- the half-serious portion would -- only be, as you say, a loophole solution, and a half-assed one at that (see my edit, in my earlier comment).

Still, there are folks who object to particular terms, and would like to see them verboten in here, and start threads in FMF to argue their case. In that spirit, why not? If people do want to, that is.

Whether the 'solution' itself holds, that should make for an interesting 50-pager in FMF. Should anyone -- not me! -- care to get one going.


Eta: As for discussing this, sure, absolutely, why not? I don't take this too seriously myself, but to the extent I do -- and I realize I may be unfairly downplaying this, a bit -- my views, as you may've seen upthread, do agree with yours.

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Old 20th June 2020, 01:26 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by Butter! View Post
I'm okay with calling people disparaging names that relate to their behavior (if said behavior is bullying, obnoxious, racist, or something, I mean). I'm obviously less enthusiastic about calling people disparaging names that relate to their appearance or age.
It's the same with compliments for me. For example, a recent co-worker of mine is a woman roughly 5 feet tall and almost certainly under 110 pounds, maybe not even 100, who has been called "feisty". My response to that was that I would never use that word because then I'd be commenting on not just her behavior & personality but also how she looks (as I said at the time, "linebackers never get called feisty"), and the latter is a subject I don't want to comment on, especially while supposedly describing the former.

Originally Posted by Darat View Post
People are only being labelled Karen because of their behaviour, it isnít (as far as my limited research) being used for example to tie together all middle aged white looking women.
The problem is that people don't just restrict themselves to only using the behavioral half of the concept; if they did then it wouldn't be a single concept with both behavioral and visual/physical aspects. Mentally tying the description of behavior together with a description of appearance makes one more likely to accuse people who fit that appearance of that behavior whether they're actually doing it or not, and/or makes it easier for people who look different to get away with the same behavior without getting called on it. (I actually behave the same all the time, but when I get rid of my hair I become more likely to get treated as if I were behaving threateningly, so what those people are really responding to is not my behavior, even though they'd claim it was.)
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Old 20th June 2020, 11:46 PM   #150
angrysoba
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Originally Posted by Butter! View Post
I'm okay with calling people disparaging names that relate to their behavior (if said behavior is bullying, obnoxious, racist, or something, I mean). I'm obviously less enthusiastic about calling people disparaging names that relate to their appearance or age. I believe "Karen" started out as the former and is morphing into the latter (again, in some contexts). I wish it would go back to simply describing the former.
I agree. I don't like the term "Karen" which just seems like a jibe at - as has been pointed out - women of a certain age and maybe complexion. In fact, at best it is a childish taunt and at worst it's a misogynist demand that certain types of women pipe down, get in their lane, know their place, stop getting above themselves, etc... etc...

And, no, the word "bitch" is definitely not better. For me it is an explicitly misogynistic term. I think it is wrong that in some people's eagerness to prove their credentials in one sense, they allow themselves a bit of latitude elsewhere.

"I'm sick of all these Karen bitches phoning up the cops to complain about black people swimming in a swimming pool. I love black people - one of my friends is a black guy. I always chat to him when he serves me at the checkout. I know his first name is John, but if I knew his second name I would call him Mister whatever his surname is. Let me tell you how mad I would be if some ******* Karen - some bitch - came in and was all like 'I wanna speak to your manager!' I would chew out that racist bitch so badly that John would be like, 'Wow! White guys can be cool too!' I really hope it happens one day. Unless it really was John's fault, in which case I would be like, 'Okay, Karen, you were right this time, but don't let it go to your head.'"
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Old 21st June 2020, 03:12 AM   #151
dann
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
In any interaction with a middle-aged white looking woman, the pejorative "Karen" can be thrown out.

Any pejorative can be throw out about anybody in any situation.

Quote:
Much like the "n" word pejorative lies in wait in any negative interaction with a person of color- admittedly to a much greater scale.

Since it is racist and means somebody who is inferior to white people, subhumans, if used by white people.

Quote:
It is either wrong to label groups of people with pejorative tags that obliterate their personhood in favor of a hate-label, or it is not. It cannot be right for some and wrong for others.

There are a lot of pejorative tags that obliterate people's personhood. This one doesn't - if applied correctly. It describes a particular kind of personality. That it can be applied incorrectly, i.e. you can call somebody a Karen even though that somebody isn't one, isn't really an argument against the concept or the word/name for the concept. If that were the case, we could no longer use terms like hypocrite or snob, which are often used incorrectly because people only have a vague idea about their meanings.

I see few problems with the term:
1) Is there a particular kind of personality out there, the one referred to when we talk about 'a Karen'?
I think there is, and people seem to agree on the characteristics of the personality type.

2) Do people confuse the name Karen with the concept a Karen?
To some extent, but mainly because people tend to get concepts wrong. The concept has very little to do with hairstyles or age: A Karen may be young, middle-aged or old, and she may have all kinds of hairstyles. What characterizes her is her behaviour in certain situations: She is self-important, arrogant and uses her (real or imagined) class and/or race privilege whenever she can get away with it to dominate people that she considers to be inferior to her: typically people of African descent, immigrants, people in low-level jobs and probably the homeless, too.

3) Could we come up with another, maybe even better term for this kind of person?
I haven't looked through the literature to find one, but I can't imagine that Karens haven't already been described and given a name in some psychology book about different personalities. (It just occurs to me that names of characters in fiction are often used to describe whole groups of people: an Uncle Tom or a Svengali, for instance, or Oedipus or Medea from the classics.)

4) If we can come up with another term, can people then be persuaded to use it instead of Karen because some people who don't have the Karen personality but just happen to be called Karen (no doubt the majority) are bothered by the new use of their name?
I have no idea.
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Old 21st June 2020, 05:04 AM   #152
Distracted1
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Any pejorative can be throw out about anybody in any situation.




Since it is racist and means somebody who is inferior to white people, subhumans, if used by white people.




There are a lot of pejorative tags that obliterate people's personhood. This one doesn't - if applied correctly. It describes a particular kind of personality. That it can be applied incorrectly, i.e. you can call somebody a Karen even though that somebody isn't one, isn't really an argument against the concept or the word/name for the concept. If that were the case, we could no longer use terms like hypocrite or snob, which are often used incorrectly because people only have a vague idea about their meanings.

I see few problems with the term:
1) Is there a particular kind of personality out there, the one referred to when we talk about 'a Karen'?
I think there is, and people seem to agree on the characteristics of the personality type.

2) Do people confuse the name Karen with the concept a Karen?
To some extent, but mainly because people tend to get concepts wrong. The concept has very little to do with hairstyles or age: A Karen may be young, middle-aged or old, and she may have all kinds of hairstyles. What characterizes her is her behaviour in certain situations: She is self-important, arrogant and uses her (real or imagined) class and/or race privilege whenever she can get away with it to dominate people that she considers to be inferior to her: typically people of African descent, immigrants, people in low-level jobs and probably the homeless, too.

3) Could we come up with another, maybe even better term for this kind of person?
I haven't looked through the literature to find one, but I can't imagine that Karens haven't already been described and given a name in some psychology book about different personalities. (It just occurs to me that names of characters in fiction are often used to describe whole groups of people: an Uncle Tom or a Svengali, for instance, or Oedipus or Medea from the classics.)

4) If we can come up with another term, can people then be persuaded to use it instead of Karen because some people who don't have the Karen personality but just happen to be called Karen (no doubt the majority) are bothered by the new use of their name?
I have no idea.
To you first point.
Particular kind of personality, or particular kind of person?

Is a young black man, teenaged Asian, or elderly Hispanic a "Karen"?

If not, it is a racist/ageist pejorative- not a criticism of a behavior, and shares characteristics with other pejorative of the same nature like Kike, Geezer, ******, Retard, Spic, etc... and it's use should be refrained from inasmuch as one would refrain from those pejoratives.
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Old 21st June 2020, 05:40 AM   #153
dann
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
To you first point.
Particular kind of personality, or particular kind of person?

Personality.

Quote:
Is a young black man, teenaged Asian, or elderly Hispanic a "Karen"?

Very rarely, I think.

Quote:
If not, it is a racist/ageist pejorative- not a criticism of a behavior, and shares characteristics with other pejorative of the same nature like Kike, Geezer, ******, Retard, Spic, etc... and it's use should be refrained from inasmuch as one would refrain from those pejoratives.

No, it's not. The word describes the Karen personality, which is the kind of personality that you see more often in some segments of the population than in others. The same goes for the name Karen. Extremely few black men are called Karen.
The concept of a Karen is obviously a pejorative since Karens aren't very nice.
I think it's possible to find a young black Karen, but I don't think that there are many of them. I don't think you would find the entitledness required to be a Karen in groups that tend be disenfranchised rather than entitled.
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Old 21st June 2020, 07:59 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
And, no, the word "bitch" is definitely not better. For me it is an explicitly misogynistic term. I think it is wrong that in some people's eagerness to prove their credentials in one sense, they allow themselves a bit of latitude elsewhere.[/i]
But it is more honest. I prefer transparency. I want to see it coming
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Old 21st June 2020, 08:30 AM   #155
Distracted1
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Personality.




Very rarely, I think.




No, it's not. The word describes the Karen personality, which is the kind of personality that you see more often in some segments of the population than in others. The same goes for the name Karen. Extremely few black men are called Karen.
The concept of a Karen is obviously a pejorative since Karens aren't very nice.
I think it's possible to find a young black Karen, but I don't think that there are many of them. I don't think you would find the entitledness required to be a Karen in groups that tend be disenfranchised rather than entitled.
It seems you are applying a definition to the term that is not widely accepted:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_(slang)

https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/karen/

Both entries point out that the pejorative applies to "middle aged white women".

less racist/sexist/ageist perhaps than the word "thug"- which we all know refers only to behavior.
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Old 21st June 2020, 09:19 AM   #156
pharphis
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
But it is more honest. I prefer transparency. I want to see it coming
This is maybe a tangent but that word, from what I've seen, is used negatively (usually) as well as in an endearing way between people. I don't think that applies to "Karen"
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Old 21st June 2020, 09:24 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
It seems you are applying a definition to the term that is not widely accepted:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_(slang)

https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/karen/

Both entries point out that the pejorative applies to "middle aged white women".

less racist/sexist/ageist perhaps than the word "thug"- which we all know refers only to behavior.
1st, your first link is borked. Wikipedia suggests the link which I assume you actually meant.

2nd, both links clearly state upfront that dann is defining the term accurately. Note the first 3 sentences in the Wiki link that somehow must have escaped you: "Karen is a pejorative term used in the Western world for a woman perceived to be entitled or demanding beyond the scope of what is considered appropriate or necessary. A common stereotype is that of a racist white woman who uses her privilege to demand her own way at the expense of others. Depictions also include demanding to "speak to the manager", being an anti-vaxxer, or having a particular bob cut hairstyle."
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Old 21st June 2020, 09:37 AM   #158
Distracted1
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
From the link:

WHAT DOES KAREN MEAN?

Karen is a mocking slang term for an entitled, obnoxious, middle-aged white woman. Especially as featured in memes, Karen is generally stereotyped as having a blonde bob haircut, asking to speak to retail and restaurant managers to voice complaints or make demands, and being a nagging, often divorced mother from Generation X.

Want more of the stories behind the hottest slang? Sign up for �� right in your inbox.

And the first one:


Karen is a pejorative term used in the Western world for a woman perceived to be entitled or demanding beyond the scope of what is considered appropriate or necessary. A common stereotype is that of a racist white woman who uses her privilege to demand her own way at the expense of others. Depictions also include demanding to "speak to the manager", being an anti-vaxxer, or having a particular bob cut hairstyle. As of 2020, the term has increasingly been used as a general-purpose term of disapproval for middle-aged white women.

Interesting that your version of the link did not include that last sentence.


Both links point out that it is a term for "middle aged white women"- managing to be ageist, sexist, and racist, all in a single term
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Old 21st June 2020, 09:59 AM   #159
wareyin
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Interesting that your version of the link did not include that last sentence.
Why would it be interesting? You claimed that the definition dann was using was not widely accepted, and to support that you ignored the majority of the definitions in the links you provided to focus on one sentence. I didn't need to remind you of the bit you were focused on, you needed to be reminded of the totality that you were ignoring that showed you were wrong.


Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Both links point out that it is a term for "middle aged white women"- managing to be ageist, sexist, and racist, all in a single term
Both links make it clear that there is more to the term than that. Your dishonest rephrasing is not working.
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Old 21st June 2020, 10:14 AM   #160
Distracted1
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Why would it be interesting? You claimed that the definition dann was using was not widely accepted, and to support that you ignored the majority of the definitions in the links you provided to focus on one sentence. I didn't need to remind you of the bit you were focused on, you needed to be reminded of the totality that you were ignoring that showed you were wrong.




Both links make it clear that there is more to the term than that. Your dishonest rephrasing is not working.
LOL

I post two links clearly defining Karen as a term applying exclusively to Middle aged white women. You ignore the first, then repost an edited version of the second.
Then you accuse me of dishonesty. Priceless.
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